Can old circulating pump be replaced?

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Hi
my old (1970's?) Myson circulating pump died overnight. It uses old, old, connectors and is plumbed into gun barrel iron central heating pipes. Two bolts connect the pump to the cutoff valves/connectors(?) on either side. As I have just discovered new pumps don't seem use these connectors anymore...

Does anyone know if there are any pumps available with these old connections?

Or, are there adaptors/flanges available to connect it to a newer pump?

All help appreciated!

I have been googling but haven't had much luck, and I'm not sure what I am looking for :-(
Needless to say that my whole central heating should have been replaced years ago, but life intervened and that is not a runner right now..

Any advice or pointers appreciated!

Wearb

This type?

I don't know the answer to your question. I just googled this to clarify your question.

RandomAvatar

thanks! will see if any of those lead to a suitable pump!! by the pics above the first couple look similar
much appreciated

Edit: not having much luck, all of those seem to be for the US (110v) and can't seem to find any in Ireland ...

jimf

even if you cant get like for like any plumber should be able to thread the old pipe work and fit a modern pump for you

sounds like your old pump has flange type connections

mickuhaha

Post up a pic of the plate on the pump.

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mickuhaha wrote: »

Post up a pic of the plate on the pump.

Will do shortly, cant figure out how to do it on my phone

mickuhaha

RandomAvatar wrote: »

Will do shortly, cant figure out how to do it on my phone

Select reply, click on attach file at bottom left of screen, select camera, take picture, select tick top right ect post

jimf

RandomAvatar wrote: »

Will do shortly, cant figure out how to do it on my phone

you don't have enough posts to allow you post pics yet

min posts are 50 I think

mickuhaha

Just put up the make number on the pump and if it's threaded pipe what size and the type of connection to pump.

RandomAvatar

mickuhaha wrote: »

Just put up the make number on the pump and if it's threaded pipe what size and the type of connection to pump.

It’s a Myson, no model number visible

The oval Flanges(?) connecting to the pipes are approx 4.1” / 105mm across the widest part and the two bolts are approx 81mm centre to centre

RandomAvatar

RandomAvatar wrote: »

It’s a Myson, no model number visible

The oval Flanges(?) connecting to the pipes are approx 4.1” / 105mm across the widest part and the two bolts are approx 81mm centre to centre

The pipe is approx 1.25 inches external diameter

corkgsxr

Best to drain and convert to standard type valves. Not a hard job for someone decent

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corkgsxr wrote: »

Best to drain and convert to standard type valves. Not a hard job for someone decent

Two plumbers have said no so far, although one of them was kind enough to say that they would come out if I would replace the whole boiler... sadly that is just not an option for me.

Issue appears to be having to cut out the flanges and then cut threads into the iron pipes to be able to connect a modern pump fitting. Not much space around the return pipe as flange is close to the back of the boiler.

corkgsxr

RandomAvatar wrote: »

Two plumbers have said no so far, although one of them was kind enough to say that they would come out if I would replace the whole boiler... sadly that is just not an option for me.

Issue appears to be having to cut out the flanges and then cut threads into the iron pipes to be able to connect a modern pump fitting. Not much space around the return pipe as flange is close to the back of the boiler.

Needs a pict really

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corkgsxr wrote: »

Needs a pict really

Cannot post pic or link because I am a new user, just tried

Wearb

RandomAvatar wrote: »

Cannot post pic or link because I am a new user, just tried

Upload it to Dropbox or similar and either link to it or pm the link to me.

Wearb

https://imageshack.com/i/pnnwKt82j

mickuhaha

You need something like this and a pump.

RandomAvatar

mickuhaha wrote: »

You need something like this and a pump.

Great thanks, looks like they could work. Do you know if they are available in Ireland? or can you give me any idea where to get them?

mickuhaha

No not in Ireland but few places in UK
Search Google
"grundfos pump flange kit uk"

https://www.colglo.co.uk/productlist.php?category=Grundfos_Pumps_Unions_Valves_and_Flanges

mickuhaha

If you don't have any wiggle room with those pipe's you might want to take the pump out. Take it and get a pump with a smaller diameter and bring it all over to your local engineering place to get them to make you up an adaptor plate to connect to the flanges.

tippgod

Can you install a new pump in a different location?

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tippgod wrote: »

Can you install a new pump in a different location?

Possibly - bit of room around the outflow pipe that comes up from the top of the boiler before it goes through the wall.

Might need to be supported I would guess if a pump is up there. In that case could I just leave the old pump where it is and not remove it?

elgicko

Call PH Ross on old cabra road, they will help you out, or point you in right direction with fittings and new pump. Better still, go into then if your in Dublin. (Good bunch of lads)

System will have to be drained. Electrics will be same.

018385666

https://www.plumbingproducts.ie/524-gun-barrel-gb

Dtp1979

The valves are ancient and leaking. Take the advice of several plumbers on here and replace both. Because I can guarantee you the new pump won’t last 40+ years.

RandomAvatar

Hi

the valves are ancient but they are not leaking, if it looks like that on the photo it is because I sprayed them with WD40 because I wanted to see if I could take off the head of the pump in case it was something simple like a loose wire.

Anyway they closed ok, and I took the head off the pump... lovely smell of burnt windings :rolleyes: some leakage but manageable.

I agree that the valves should be changed (along with pipes and the boiler) but I just can't do that right now. To be honest, all I care about is getting through this winter.

mickuhaha

Pull off the pump and bring it into a few places to see if you can find a head to match up with the body. You might get lucky.

mickuhaha

Myson Dual Speed Circulating Pump Oval Flanged U2A252 is the pump you have . Where you are going to find one I don't know.
https://m.ebay.ie/itm/Pompe-de-chaudiere-circulateur-MYSON-UNIT-THREE-occasion-garantie-1/123830683416?hash=item1cd4e24718:g:aLsAAOSw7Vhaop5R

https://m.ebay.ie/itm/Pompe-de-chaudiere-circulateur-MYSON-UNIT-TWO-Neuve-1/401809739166?hash=item5d8dba0d9e:g:1HIAAOSwMm1a4bD9

This head might fit. You would need to find out and make sure the body of yours is in good nick.

jimf

as we all know here valves turn off ok

but leak when turned back on

K.Flyer

mickuhaha wrote: »

Myson Dual Speed Circulating Pump Oval Flanged U2A252 is the pump you have . Where you are going to find one I don't know.

This head might fit. You would need to find out and make sure the body of yours is in good nick.

The head might fit, but the impeller can be totally different and render the head useless.

mickuhaha

K.Flyer wrote: »

The head might fit, but the impeller can be totally different and render the head useless.

Maybe, contact the seller in the link and op could find out or get one of the other flanged pumps he has. He might have the same one as op. Or op could as everyone else has suggested and get someone in to change over to a new pump. I know if it was me and I was two days without heat or electric I would be willing to try almost anything as a stop gap. Op might be able to get fittings that he could fit to existing pipe thread and convert to standard.

RandomAvatar

hi

thanks everyone for their advice and fair play Mick for identifying that model of pump!!

Anyway I'm going to try to find some sort of flange adapter. I'm going to visit all the local plumbing suppliers to see what I can find.

(If I knew anyone who could fabricate one I'd get them to make one but I don't)

The space between the flanges is 130mm same as a standard circulating pump so I'm hoping to fit a new pump in the gap with some sort of adapter that will go over the input/output connectors on the pump, which I think are 1-1/2"(?)

if I can bodge something in that would work short term I'll do it and then do a proper replacement job when I'm not freezing!

mickuhaha

Keep us informed how you get on.

RandomAvatar

Ok so no luck so far with the adapters, but I haven’t given up yet. one guy said that he’d contact his grundfoss rep to see if he could get one of their sets ordered in. Might take him up on that.

I did manage to pick up a new set of valves that fit my gb pipes and will connect to new pump fittings. Obviously that would mean draining the system but at least I have a fallback option (assuming they do fit!!)

Will keep you updated

Dtp1979

RandomAvatar wrote: »

Ok so no luck so far with the adapters, but I haven’t given up yet. one guy said that he’d contact his grundfoss rep to see if he could get one of their sets ordered in. Might take him up on that.

I did manage to pick up a new set of valves that fit my gb pipes and will connect to new pump fittings. Obviously that would mean draining the system but at least I have a fallback option (assuming they do fit!!)

Will keep you updated

If they’re the screwdriver slot type then you’d be better off not fitting them. Only fit the gate valve type ones

RandomAvatar

So I now have heating.

I never managed to get the flange adapters, but I did get a replacement circulating pump and managed to fit it in with a lot a help!

It wasn’t easy - firstly the gap was a good 7mm narrower than I thought (123mm) so I had to move the boiler back to give room. It weighed a ton and I was barely able to shift it. But luckily the chimney pipe had enough flex...

Once I had room I used 2 long bolts (160mm) to go from each bolt hole in each valve to the opposite hole in the other valve to hold the new pump in place.

However the front of the pump protrudes out and it was hitting the front bolt - i.e. the presence of the bolt meant that the pump would not align.

So I tried grinding down the bolt in the middle section to create room to allow the pump to sit further down, but still couldn’t get it to align.

So I put an extension on one side of each end to effectively widen the valve front and allow the bolt to move out to connect to a piece of metal attached to each valve which gave enough room for the pump to sit down in properly and allowed it align the input/output hole with the holes in the flanges.

It was very tricky because the rubber washers didn’t leave much room for misalignment and there was a recess for a large washer or O ring on the face of the valves which we couldn’t use because it was a larger size than the face of the pump connections. So it took a few goes before it all came together.

During this I discovered that one of the pipes moved slightly when it was first disconnected from the pump, so it had to be pulled back in line.

So got it connected and have been using it successfully. It is not leaking. I have a little bit of seepage from the top of the valves and I’ll keep an eye on it. ( Yaay I have heating!!)

Overall it is a bodge and may not last very long. But I have heating.

I’ll pm a link to a picture or two if ye are interested?

Anyway I am going to order in the adapter flanges so that I don’t ever have to do this again! I’ll look to get someone in over the summer to fix things up but I don't know whether I should connect a new boiler & pump to old GB pipes? would be interested in what you think? Obviously I would like to change the pipes too but thats a much bigger and very intrusive job.

One thing that bothered me is that the return pipe and input pipe into the boiler are very close to the ground, so I don’t know how the valves were originally fitted - there is not enough clearance to turn/screw on the valves onto the pipes and they are designed to screw on.

RandomAvatar

Photos

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RandomAvatar wrote: »

Photos

Close up

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RandomAvatar wrote: »

Close up

Valve to pump connection

mickuhaha

Glad you have heat. I am going to assume this is outside and not in your house and secondly if you system is open vent close off the feed to the cistern or else if it fails it will continue to flood the area . Just monitor the cistern and top up as required.

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mickuhaha wrote: »

Glad you have heat. I am going to assume this is outside and not in your house and secondly if you system is open vent close off the feed to the cistern or else if it fails it will continue to flood the area . Just monitor the cistern and top up as required.

Yep its in the garage so if it does spring a leak there isn’t much to be damaged. Good idea about the cistern, I’ll tie up the ball to stop it refilling automatically.