Child poverty in the UK??

2lazytogetup

Anyone see the dispatches tv show last night on Channel 4? Link for context:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/welfare/2019/12/channel-4-s-shocking-dispatches-child-poverty-reality-check-election-needs

I believe in fairness and am left leaning, id vote labour/social democrats over the right wing FG.

However programs like this make me wonder if there really is poverty in the western world. Kids have a roof over their heads, i saw a massive tv, and a games console. all the foods they have are branded. i see dolmios, pringles. Complaints that they had to walk 2 miles to a food bank, thats like 20 min walk, tops, probably good for them to get exercise. they dont look like they are starving. they complained they couldnt keep the heating on overnight. Well i dont keep the heating on overnight

Compare this with places in romania or Africa. im happy i donate to Red Cross and Goal as i think people in third world countries need it more than people in UK/IRL.

Are we only seeing western europe poverty as its lazy journalism not bothered going abroad, and this "poverty" is on our doorstep is what they are concentrating on.

jam_mac_jam

Oh working class/ dole bashing thread. Is there not already one on the go?

TheBoyConor

Child poverty in the UK and Ireland is pretty much down to the parents being fúck ups and failing rather than any sort of grand societal problem. These households will likely have things like absentee father issues, alcoholism, drugs, habitual unemployment etc. And of course the sense of entiltement and it is everyone else's fault bar their own.

gmisk

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Anyone see the dispatches tv show last night on Channel 4? Link for context:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/welfare/2019/12/channel-4-s-shocking-dispatches-child-poverty-reality-check-election-needs

I believe in fairness and am left leaning, id vote labour/social democrats over the right wing FG.

However programs like this make me wonder if there really is poverty in the western world. Kids have a roof over their heads, i saw a massive tv, and a games console. all the foods they have are branded. i see dolmios, pringles. Complaints that they had to walk 2 miles to a food bank, thats like 20 min walk, tops, probably good for them to get exercise. they dont look like they are starving. they complained they couldnt keep the heating on overnight. Well i dont keep the heating on overnight

Compare this with places in romania or Africa. im happy i donate to Red Cross and Goal as i think people in third world countries need it more than people in UK/IRL.

Are we only seeing western europe poverty as its lazy journalism not bothered going abroad, and this "poverty" is on our doorstep is what they are concentrating on.

They are freezing and can't afford to put on the heating.
Obvious solution...buy an Aga....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indy100.com/article/channel-4-dispatches-child-poverty-bread-line-kids-videos-social-media-reaction-9229381%3famp

Of course childhood poverty is a real thing in the UK and Ireland.
Did you actually watch it?

nkl12xtw5goz70

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

armaghlad

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Child poverty in the UK and Ireland is pretty much down to the parents being fúck ups and failing rather than any sort of grand societal problem. These households will likely have things like absentee father issues, alcoholism, drugs, habitual unemployment etc. And of course the sense of entiltement and it is everyone else's fault bar their own.

**** I didn’t know Boris Johnston was on boards

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ah, the age old custom of claiming there isn't a problem by comparing it with the third world...

igCorcaigh

The delays people face with the universal credit scheme is a disaster. That's why many go to food banks. You can't eat a TV.

There are also the working poor, thanks to zero hour contracts and the like. Terrible situation in the UK.

armaghlad

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

You must live in a tent

2lazytogetup

igCorcaigh wrote: »

The delays people face with the universal credit scheme is a disaster. That's why many go to food banks. You can't eat a TV.

There are also the working poor, thanks to zero hour contracts and the like. Terrible situation in the UK.

They dont think to save for a rainy day??? im sure the schools in the uk are teaching kids to save. i dont have a massive tv and dont plan to buy one. i prefer to keep some money in case i get let go from work tomorrow.

2lazytogetup

Of course childhood poverty is a real thing in the UK and Ireland.
Did you actually watch it?[/QUOTE]

yeah, i just noticed all the branded clothes and stuff they had. Alot of clutter. and they went on about being hungry all the time, yet they were hardly skin and bones. the adults all looked obese. you may say well healthy food is more expensive than junk food??!! 1kg of broccali is 49cents. a mcdonalds is about 7euro a meal.

Woke Hogan

Mobile phones. Televisions. Internet access. These haven’t been luxuries for at least fifteen years. Poverty doesn’t just manifest from not having enough to eat. There is also poverty of opportunity and poverty of education.

A poor working class family living hand to mouth may not have the knowhow for stretching their food budget on cheap and nutritious meals as opposed to picking up a jar of Dolmio, nor would the same family be able to afford to put money aside every month for their children to go to university later in life.

Those children will grow up totally ignorant of how to feed themselves on a low income and without any educational prospects. Thus the cycle of poverty will continue.

LirW

There are big areas in the UK that are unbelievably poor and underfunded. Most jobs wiped out over the last few decades and while the ones who could, left, the ones that couldn't stayed and watched their community falling apart and the area become increasingly run down. Young people take on jobs with terrible pay and working conditions just to keep afloat.
The welfare system is in bits with unrealistic conditions bound to welfare payments for people living in impoverished areas.

So people spend their money when they have it coming in with little to no room for savings. People often lack the means and education to prepare nutritious meals, especially when dependent on food banks. No funding for parenting classes from the state.
Generally in England the rich are completely disconnected from the poor and their problems, a lot more than they are over here, it a big country with a complex ruling system and a long history of classism.

Also just about nobody in boards can in any way relate to someone in poverty and coming from a problematic background. We know what we'd do if we fall on hard times but this is a part of society that has never been doing well to begin with so the chances of them growing up with a difficult environment, poverty and no value places on education is engrained.

In this regard there is a huge rift in the UK that we don't really know here in Ireland.

Raconteuse

LirW wrote: »

There are big areas in the UK that are unbelievably poor and underfunded. Most jobs wiped out over the last few decades and while the ones who could, left, the ones that couldn't stayed and watched their community falling apart and the area become increasingly run down. Young people take on jobs with terrible pay and working conditions just to keep afloat.
The welfare system is in bits with unrealistic conditions bound to welfare payments for people living in impoverished areas.

So people spend their money when they have it coming in with little to no room for savings. People often lack the means and education to prepare nutritious meals, especially when dependent on food banks. No funding for parenting classes from the state.
Generally in England the rich are completely disconnected from the poor and their problems, a lot more than they are over here, it a big country with a complex ruling system and a long history of classism.

Also just about nobody in boards can in any way relate to someone in poverty and coming from a problematic background. We know what we'd do if we fall on hard times but this is a part of society that has never been doing well to begin with so the chances of them growing up with a difficult environment, poverty and no value places on education is engrained.

In this regard there is a huge rift in the UK that we don't really know here in Ireland.

Absolutely. No industrial revolution in Ireland. Former hubs of heavy industry like Wolverhampton and Middlesborough and Merthyr Tydfil are frighteningly deprived. They are the UK's equivalent of the Rust Belt.

Edgware

No point comparing the U.K. to the third world countries (a lot of which are poor due to massive government corruption in potentially wealthy states).
I would have my doubts about several of these third world charities anyway.

I am in the U.K. at least once a month and there is definetely a significant drop inliving standards particularly in one parent families and among the elderly in the big once powerful industrial bases like Merseyside,Newcastle, Glasgow and South and East London.
Poor food choices, lack of winter heating and low quality social housing are all contributing to poverty. Welfare rates in Ireland are streets ahead

I see sheep

LirW wrote: »

There are big areas in the UK that are unbelievably poor and underfunded. Most jobs wiped out over the last few decades and while the ones who could, left, the ones that couldn't stayed and watched their community falling apart and the area become increasingly run down. Young people take on jobs with terrible pay and working conditions just to keep afloat.
The welfare system is in bits with unrealistic conditions bound to welfare payments for people living in impoverished areas.

So people spend their money when they have it coming in with little to no room for savings. People often lack the means and education to prepare nutritious meals, especially when dependent on food banks. No funding for parenting classes from the state.
Generally in England the rich are completely disconnected from the poor and their problems, a lot more than they are over here, it a big country with a complex ruling system and a long history of classism.

And things are about to get a lot worse once Brexit happens and manufacturing pulls out in places it's badly needed like Nissan in Sunderland.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Cooking, nutrition and budgeting should really be an exam module in schools.

Being competent at preparing food can save absolutely loads of money. And is also way healthier. Paying off your bills on a weekly basis means they can't pile up. You have to teach these things to people who can't or won't figure it out for themselves.

Wanderer78

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote:

Cooking, nutrition and budgeting should really be an exam module in schools.

Fcuk the exams, just bloody teach it

BobMc

" 11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment "

I wouldnt have the above a couple times a year I must be in poverty or close too it

LirW

I see sheep wrote: »

And things are about to get a lot worse once Brexit happens and manufacturing pulls out in places it's badly needed like Nissan in Sunderland.

My husband did his last college year in Sunderland. The day after he had his paper he packed up in the morning and left, that's how crap he found the place.

When they ran the universal credit trial in the most deprived areas of the UK things went pretty wrong. The expectations were utterly unrealistic for areas that had no jobs around. Small crime exploded during the time because people went hungry and without power. Others didn't have easy access to their medication and a safe environment anymore. It was some post-apocalyptic stuff. How a leader can say "ah sure pull yourself up by your bootstraps" in such a complex and depressing situation is beyond me.
The Tory level of oblivious is something else.

Mad_maxx

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Anyone see the dispatches tv show last night on Channel 4? Link for context:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/welfare/2019/12/channel-4-s-shocking-dispatches-child-poverty-reality-check-election-needs

I believe in fairness and am left leaning, id vote labour/social democrats over the right wing FG.

However programs like this make me wonder if there really is poverty in the western world. Kids have a roof over their heads, i saw a massive tv, and a games console. all the foods they have are branded. i see dolmios, pringles. Complaints that they had to walk 2 miles to a food bank, thats like 20 min walk, tops, probably good for them to get exercise. they dont look like they are starving. they complained they couldnt keep the heating on overnight. Well i dont keep the heating on overnight

Compare this with places in romania or Africa. im happy i donate to Red Cross and Goal as i think people in third world countries need it more than people in UK/IRL.

Are we only seeing western europe poverty as its lazy journalism not bothered going abroad, and this "poverty" is on our doorstep is what they are concentrating on.

The UK has real inequality and the least generous welfare rates in the EU, we have a very generous welfare state

The British are a hard headed people

Zubeneschamali

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

Link to same: http://www.socialinclusion.ie/poverty.html

Even better than the poverty indicators is the "at risk of poverty" indicator.

The ‘at risk of poverty’ indicator has particular limitations as a measure of poverty in the case of Ireland in recent years. It takes no account of overall living standards and fails to reflect the fact that the 60% median income threshold increased by 98% from €102.44 in 1997 to €202.49 in 2006. Over the same period (1997 – 2006), prices (CPI) increased by just 35.8%, average industrial earnings increased by 61.8% and basic social welfare payments increased by 99.7%. The high levels of economic growth led to an increase in the number of women in the workforce and, consequently, in the number of two income households. Incomes in these cases outpaced the incomes of those who were not in the workforce and of some single income families. All groups in society have benefited from economic growth, therefore the main value of the indicator is in identifying particular groups which may have difficulty keeping pace with living standards generally.

In other words, the at risk of poverty indicator doesn't really work in Ireland because we are too well off.

Subcomandante Marcos

armaghlad wrote: »

You must live in a tent

He lives in a penthouse in DC which he paid for with his high flying international financial services career and shares with his young model wife.

Or so he claimed for several years before being found out and deleting his account.

LirW

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Cooking, nutrition and budgeting should really be an exam module in schools.

Being competent at preparing food can save absolutely loads of money. And is also way healthier. Paying off your bills on a weekly basis means they can't pile up. You have to teach these things to people who can't or won't figure it out for themselves.

If this would be rolled out there need to be accompanying classes for parents that are free (otherwise people wouldn't do them) and maybe even in a parent-child format.
Many families in welfare have no idea of the value of education and see it as a time a child has to do in order to get out there and work in a labour job. They'd be critical of what and why they teach it and if children at home get discouraged of taking over a job the parents should do or teach them, they won't do it either.
I'm all for these classes, but it needs to involve parents too in a way.

theteal

MrsTeal got upset watching this last night. . . . even though she noticed one of the young ones had "eyebrows tattood, lip filler and perfect nails".

I was a little taken aback by all the food brands on display (very few of which we'd have at home ourselves) but did notice that a lot of these were coming from the food bank so I'm not sure the parents can be blamed for splurging.

TheBoyConor

This is just karma coming home now for the Brits for what they did to us here in Ireland for 800 years. They tried to starve us and keep us so poor and hungry that we couldn't fight.

Does no one get fed up of obsessing about 'poor' people and whether they are relly poor?

CrankyHaus

I think the misleading thing about these sort of shows is that often those most willing to go on TV to exhibit their "poverty" are of the "look at poor me" hand-always-out-type while those suffering from genuine poverty and deprivation are usually too busy with their own problems or too proud to parade themselves on TV in front of millions.

I haven't seen the show the OP mentioned but it's a recurring theme I've noticed in poverty porn shows here and in the UK. Poverty, and increasingly employed poverty, are serious problems in the UK and to a lesser extent here but you'd never know it from the state of the grasping free spending queue jumpers presented by TV and the poverty industry.

Harry Palmr

It's as if people are surprised by the result of a decade of deliberate austerity programming by the Tories. The money is there but the "wrong" people have an increasingly large % of it. They are the ones funding the Tories election campaign in part.

Jinglejangle69

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

This is rammed down our throats by the left wing parties and media here.

Oh poverty blame the gubberment.

What a load of nonsense.

rondog

Those people werent poor.Everyone these days wants to be poor so they can get benefits and welfare.No one wants to work for their forever home ie Margaret cash the biggest leech on the planet.
These people have heating a roof over their heads and label clothing.Try sacrifice your brand labels and get heating instead.
Absolute opportunists.

PieOhMy

mariaalice wrote: »

Does no one get fed up of obsessing about 'poor' people and whether they are relly poor?

I've noticed myself spending far too much time and energy being bothered about this type of thing. I suppose constantly reading about it doesnt help but neither does seeing scumbags in town with 120eur tracksuits and 150eur runner on while I'm decked out in Penny's despite grinding a 9 to 5. I think in Ireland this type of welfare recipient unfortunately paints the unseen genuine cases with the same brush.

Guy:Incognito

TheBoyConor wrote: »

This is just karma coming home now for the Brits for what they did to us here in Ireland for 800 years. They tried to starve us and keep us so poor and hungry that we couldn't fight.

Yeah and tbh 800 years is plenty for anyone to live for. Probably about time they died.

TheBoyConor

They caused the great potato famine of 1916 when they stole the 7 counties of ulster.

Guy:Incognito

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They caused the great potato famine of 1916 when they stole the 7 counties of ulster.

You should have them arrested.

One eyed Jack

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Complaints that they had to walk 2 miles to a food bank, thats like 20 min walk, tops, probably good for them to get exercise.

Says 2lazytogetup...


:pac:

NIMAN

Had this argument recently with work colleagues, there should be no need for food banks in Ireland and the UK.

The benefits and welfare system is good enough, especially here that no-one needs food handouts.

The bottom line as already mentioned is people spending their money on the wrong things.

Roof over your head, food, clothing and keeping warm are the important things. If you are spending your money on anything else over these then that's the issue.

Plopsu

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Cooking, nutrition and budgeting should really be an exam module in schools.

Does home economics not have an exam?

Mavis Noisy Hoof

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

very useful guide to the different ways to measure poverty https://fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/

SEPT 23 1989

their level of poverty is far worse than anything we have over here

RasTa

Yeah it's bad over here. Just watched it there.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/68553-001

It's mainly from the kids POV so dunno how you could complain unless you're a c*nt.

Think benefits are something like £70 a week, no idea what the payment is for having kids but will be donating to the food bank as they are always looking.

Raconteuse

No way could their benefits buy loads of gadgets and expensive sportswear etc. That's likely money coming from a nefarious source.

Honest people out of work would find it very difficult to make ends meet over there. And there are very badly hit economic blackspots - nothing like them here. Also moving away costs money.

It's not always the case that it's their own responsibility and that they're blaming everyone else. Surely this can be seen easily when there is a combination of extremely deprived areas like nowhere here, and much lower benefits. No point comparing the UK to Ireland.

Raconteuse

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I think the misleading thing about these sort of shows is that often those most willing to go on TV to exhibit their "poverty" are of the "look at poor me" hand-always-out-type while those suffering from genuine poverty and deprivation are usually too busy with their own problems or too proud to parade themselves on TV in front of millions.

I haven't seen the show the OP mentioned but it's a recurring theme I've noticed in property porn shows here and in the UK. Poverty, and increasingly employed poverty, are serious problems in the UK and to a lesser extent here but you'd never know it from the state of the grasping free spending queue jumpers presented by TV and the poverty industry.

Yep, squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Same with homelessness cases that get media attention here - nearly always "I deserve a house in my area of choice" and then less flattering facts come to light. Whereas the family with working parent(s) who can't find an affordable home following their lease ending unexpectedly... as you say they're too busy and have too much dignity.

gmisk

I only just got around to watching the dispatches growing up poor, programme about child poverty.

I found it pretty heartbreaking to be honest.

When I was growing up we didn't have much money (one of my earliest memories was hiding from the coal man as we didn't have the money to pay him) but we were never hungry my parents both worked their arses off including my dad eventually working abroad til I was 16. I can see how easily families would struggle especially if mental health etc is an issue.

Mavis Noisy Hoof

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

i was poor my entire life until my second promotion

jaysus, ill remember that the next time someone tries to criticise my hardheartedness!

lawred2

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

Jaysus most months myself and the missus would be living in poverty based on that expectation of a social life... lol

Jinglejangle69

lawred2 wrote: »

Jaysus most months myself and the missus would be living in poverty based on that expectation of a social life... lol

Leftie liberal nonsense.

andekwarhola

It's a bit disingenuous to always define metrics of deprivation against so called third world examples. Poverty might be the wrong word to use in this cases but it's no problem for me to try and ensure that in a relatively wealthy country that we allow class mobility and someting appproaching equity in the baseline of living standards.

Graces7

Mavis Noisy Hoof wrote: »

In Ireland, someone is defined as living in "poverty" if he or she cannot afford two or more items from the list below:

1. Two pairs of strong shoes
2. A warm waterproof overcoat
3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
7. Keep the home adequately warm
8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
9. Replace any worn out furniture
10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

So if you can't afford to replace a worn-out sofa or can't afford an evening out every other week or a roast every Sunday, you can claim to be in poverty — which is a manipulative definition of "poverty" in my book.

Always wonder who dreamed that list up.

Middle class twits.

According to that list I live in total utter deprived poverty ! NOT! Happy with how I live. And do not eat meat I am not poor. Poor is no roof over your head.. No food or fuel. etc etc

corner of hells

Nickel Futures wrote: »

What I find interesting is the charity tv ads depicting a mother holding her malnourished child. What sort of scumbag would choose to bring a child into a life of such poverty and suffering.

Dunno, someone who doesn't read the dates on threads?

Aaargh123

:-D