Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Sunday competition booking system
Options
Comments
-
Clubs should really get rid of the option for one person to book a full line. I know two lads that always do it. They book the line but only two of them show up so they dont have to play with anyone else.
would they not have to put names against the spots though?
i mean, i can book a full line on our brs, but i have to hit the drop down and pick the players0 -
Same setup in my club same club i wonder?
I find the system fair enough. There are a bunch of guys who want to play early and they want to play with their buddies. If they go to the draw which generates revenue it’s fair enough. We need the money we’re a non profit after all. Loads of lines available outside that admittedly not much now with winter league and limited daylight.
There are always times you can slot in maybe not at 8 in the morning but still Your best bet is actually Saturday evening. Always some guys pulling out late the night before. I have never not been able to get a time myself and that’s how I got into it when I was new there. Played with someone else every week.0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »Played with someone else every week.
it's the best way. you to get to know everybody in the club and to enjoy playing with different levels of golfers rather than getting stuck in a rut!0 -
We use BRS and it goes live the weekend before. You can book a whole line if you want but it must be names and not guests. On your digital purse the comp fee goes "pending". Up until 12.00pm the day before the comp you can take your name off without losing your comp fee but after that it's non refundable.
It seems to work very well.0 -
I think having a draw is not a bad thing. Surprised to see that people find it so unusual. Its a popular enough social event, it gets people together and money into the (members owned) club and it favours the people who are very active members socially and golfing wise. Whats wrong with that?
I hardly ever go myself, maybe once or twice a year, but I think its fair.
The draw is every Saturday for the comp Sunday week. Sunday comps are three balls. So people show up for the draw in threes and whoever of the three is drawn first takes their preferred line and thats all three of them sorted and gone from the draw. And so on. Until the hat is empty.
There is no requirement to show up in threes and you dont have to take a full line either. But three names in the hat gives better chances obviously. For your name to be in the hat you have to be present.
This procedure makes up usually a little over half the field. Typically a solid booked block for the first 2.5 to 3 hours of the Sunday. After all its all about the early times and going out with your regulars.
Following Monday the timesheet goes up on BRS with the names from the draw already entered and fully opened up for online booking. Usually plenty of room after half ten, depends on time of the year of course.
During the week then there is plenty of chopping and changing and spots and entire lines become available even from the early slots. I never failed to get a decent time for myself often quite early and most of the time with my regular buddies, too.
Can't see too much wrong with it. Not to a degree where it would put me off joining for sure.0 -
Advertisement
-
CalamariFritti wrote: »I think having a draw is not a bad thing. Surprised to see that people find it so unusual. Its a popular enough social event, it gets people together and money into the (members owned) club and it favours the people who are very active members socially and golfing wise. Whats wrong with that?
I hardly ever go myself, maybe once or twice a year, but I think its fair.
The draw is every Saturday for the comp Sunday week. Sunday comps are three balls. So people show up for the draw in threes and whoever of the three is drawn first takes their preferred line and thats all three of them sorted and gone from the draw. And so on. Until the hat is empty.
There is no requirement to show up in threes and you dont have to take a full line either. But three names in the hat gives better chances obviously. For your name to be in the hat you have to be present.
This procedure makes up usually a little over half the field. Typically a solid booked block for the first 2.5 to 3 hours of the Sunday. After all its all about the early times and going out with your regulars.
Following Monday the timesheet goes up on BRS with the names from the draw already entered and fully opened up for online booking. Usually plenty of room after half ten, depends on time of the year of course.
During the week then there is plenty of chopping and changing and spots and entire lines become available even from the early slots. I never failed to get a decent time for myself often quite early and most of the time with my regular buddies, too.
Can't see too much wrong with it. Not to a degree where it would put me off joining for sure.
I understood your rationale in regards to the draw but I still largely disagree with it. I found the process off putting as encourages exactly what you said "favours members who are active socially". This in turn may discourage new members as it means that integration into the club requires efforts beyond the golf course which is not what many are signing up to do.
This format, as you acknowledged, clearly favours regular members encouraging the grouping of certain individuals while significantly reducing the ability for new numbers to A. Integrate with the more established members of the club B. Play golf at the most preferred times for most.
The format favours those who have the time/desire to sit around in a bar in the evening time socialising.
That is perfectly fine but it eliminates those of use who may commute large distances, have young families and may travel to the club.
It's a fantastic format for the 60 yr old retiree who likes a few pints and is walking distance from the club. If the business model is to encourage that support then the approach is fine. However, in a sport which is struggling to attract new younger members, I think new entries(like me) into the golfing world do not want our weekends to revolve around a golf club.
Having paid over 1k for membership, I simply want the opportunity to play golf at my preferred times and not feel as though I must spend additional time in the club breaking into cliques to improve my chances of playing at earlier times.0 -
I'm sorry that you feel this way but I cannot agree with you.
A club membership is more than just access to the product that is golf. There will always people who use it like this, tbh for the most part that would be me, but if the guys who live the club get that small advantage I'd have no problem with it.
And like I said there is no problem getting out. Getting out early even. Playing with different people etc. I've done it, I'm doing it. You just have to be on the ball on BRS.0 -
I was exactly the type of person it didn't suit, but still thought it was a good idea (if they'd stuck up the time sheet online after which I believe they now do). The types of members there are typically the ones contributing more to he club too. They pay the same membership, but they keep the bar going, are more likely to be in committees, probably play 50 comps a year compared to my 10, or in the case of a guy my age living nearer maybe typically 20. That's twice as much in comp fees, extra food and drink in the bar. They get more out of the club but they put more into it too.0
-
CalamariFritti wrote: »I'm sorry that you feel this way but I cannot agree with you.
A club membership is more than just access to the product that is golf. There will always people who use it like this, tbh for the most part that would be me, but if the guys who live the club get that small advantage I'd have no problem with it.
And like I said there is no problem getting out. Getting out early even. Playing with different people etc. I've done it, I'm doing it. You just have to be on the ball on BRS.
What elements do you disagree with though? I view a golf membership as a social endeavour but I don't believe a prerequisite should be effectively spending my Saturday evening in a club drinking and/or eating as that is not what I want to spend my time doing.
I'll play 40-50 comps a year, I regularly eat in the bar after a round, I go to the events after major comps and I purchase in the ProShop when the price discrepancy isn't outlandish.
I do all of this without being forced to give up my Saturday evening to book a round of golf. Club contribution does not depend on spending an extra evening in the club.
I am more likely to contribute to the club if I can simply book a round a few days out as I can plan my week opposed to relying on the luck of the draw on a Saturday to get out on a Sunday.
It's archaic logic and I suspect if you actually trialled both methods in the same club and did the maths on it I suspect you'd quickly realise the Saturday evening method contributes less long term than the standard BRS method.0 -
Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »What elements do you disagree with though? I view a golf membership as a social endeavour but I don't believe a prerequisite should be effectively spending my Saturday evening in a club drinking and/or eating as that is not what I want to spend my time doing.
I'll play 40-50 comps a year, I regularly eat in the bar after a round, I go to the events after major comps and I purchase in the ProShop when the price discrepancy isn't outlandish.
I do all of this without being forced to give up my Saturday evening to book a round of golf. Club contribution does not depend on spending an extra evening in the club.
I am more likely to contribute to the club if I can simply book a round a few days out as I can plan my week opposed to relying on the luck of the draw on a Saturday to get out on a Sunday.
It's archaic logic and I suspect if you actually trialled both methods in the same club and did the maths on it I suspect you'd quickly realise the Saturday evening method contributes less long term than the standard BRS method.
The bar is packed for a couple of hours every Saturday, it's great to see the life in it. And there's heaps of times left after the draw. Getting out on a Sunday won't be a problem. You won't get a time between about 8:45 and 10 immediately, but if you keep an eye out during the week someone will cancel and you can jump in. But there will still be decent times left anyway unless you leave it late in the week which is the same in any club.0 -
Advertisement
-
Thats how I feel about it. I'm not one of them stalwarts myself but I feel its a fair and good system. I would feel different about it if I couldn't get onto the sheet at all or not until late in the day every time, but its not like that. I more or less never go to the draw and I rarely play after ten.
The sheet is up on BRS since the introduction of BRS, its not a recent thing, going on for years like this. You check BRS once or twice a day during the week and I'd be surprised if you didn't get your early tee time.
Of course this time of the year its more difficult. There are only 4 hours of starting times and a lot of players are committed to playing in the winter league. So the competition for times is harder, but still, you keep an eye on BRS, especially Saturday night, and you will get out and more often than not you will get out early. To me its always been a very small inconvenience, no more.0 -
Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »What elements do you disagree with though? I view a golf membership as a social endeavour but I don't believe a prerequisite should be effectively spending my Saturday evening in a club drinking and/or eating as that is not what I want to spend my time doing.
I'll play 40-50 comps a year, I regularly eat in the bar after a round, I go to the events after major comps and I purchase in the ProShop when the price discrepancy isn't outlandish.
I do all of this without being forced to give up my Saturday evening to book a round of golf. Club contribution does not depend on spending an extra evening in the club.
I am more likely to contribute to the club if I can simply book a round a few days out as I can plan my week opposed to relying on the luck of the draw on a Saturday to get out on a Sunday.
It's archaic logic and I suspect if you actually trialled both methods in the same club and did the maths on it I suspect you'd quickly realise the Saturday evening method contributes less long term than the standard BRS method.
I disagree with a free for all online being a better and fairer system. Because I do believe that a club should encourage the social aspect of the membership and reward the active members.
But mostly I disagree with it because you would sacrifice an established and popular and IMO important aspect of the social club life for what really is just a small inconvenience. Like I said many times, you just have to be on the ball on BRS and you will get your early time nine times out of ten.0 -
The bar is packed for a couple of hours every Saturday, it's great to see the life in it. And there's heaps of times left after the draw. Getting out on a Sunday won't be a problem. You won't get a time between about 8:45 and 10 immediately, but if you keep an eye out during the week someone will cancel and you can jump in. But there will still be decent times left anyway unless you leave it late in the week which is the same in any club.
It may be great to see life in the bar but that's not what entices younger people based upon the current trajectory of the younger generations habits of socialisation.
Younger people have little interest in drinking in bars and if integration is encouraged by socialising on a Saturday evening in the bar then I suspect the club will struggle to retain members.
I suspect both of you are members of the club which is perfectly fine but you're going to have a clear bias towards the methodology which is understandable but you have to question if it is such a good method then why do other clubs not adopt it?
Assuming I am right about the club in question. You must consider the opinion of the OP & I. I can only speak for myself but I am the exact demographic you are looking to attract, young active work professional in close proximity to the club yet I am very much deterred by the club's policies, enough to be willing to travel 20-25 mins further to a similarly priced club.0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »I disagree with a free for all online being a better and fairer system. Because I do believe that a club should encourage the social aspect of the membership and reward the active members.
But mostly I disagree with it because you would sacrifice an established and popular and IMO important aspect of the social club life for what really is just a small inconvenience. Like I said many times, you just have to be on the ball on BRS and you will get your early time nine times out of ten.
You think this methodology encourages socialization which I disagree with. It encourages the socialization of a small proportion of people. It especially encourages it amongst the older generation.
That's the part you don't seem to understand, you think socialising is important as do I, the difference is that I think socialising in a bar on a Saturday night is not the only means as do most younger people based on current figures not just my own opinion.0 -
Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »It may be great to see life in the bar but that's not what entices younger people based upon the current trajectory of the younger generations habits of socialisation.
Younger people have little interest in drinking in bars and if integration is encouraged by socialising on a Saturday evening in the bar then I suspect the club will struggle to retain members.
I suspect both of you are members of the club which is perfectly fine but you're going to have a clear bias towards the methodology which is understandable but you have to question if it is such a good method then why do other clubs not adopt it?
Assuming I am right about the club in question. You must consider the opinion of the OP & I. I can only speak for myself but I am the exact demographic you are looking to attract, young active work professional in close proximity to the club yet I am very much deterred by the club's policies, enough to be willing to travel 20-25 mins further to a similarly priced club.
I was a member of the club, but now I'm a member of a different club that just puts the time sheet online. There's no great difference between the two systems for me. And I'm also the demographic they'd be hoping to attract too.0 -
Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »You think this methodology encourages socialization which I disagree with. It encourages the socialization of a small proportion of people. It especially encourages it amongst the older generation.
That's the part you don't seem to understand, you think socialising is important as do I, the difference is that I think socialising in a bar on a Saturday night is not the only means as do most younger people based on current figures not just my own opinion.
I played with heaps of strangers, many of them old in tramore. If people have their set groups they'll play with their mates regardless of the system. And this isn't a bad thing, I like playing with my mates too.0 -
Are you from the area though? If you're not from the area I assume you're around long enough to have been a member in multiple places.
I ask as I'm not from the area and I felt the Saturday evening method was less likely to allow me integrate into the club which was a major factor for me choosing elsewhere.
I believe (as figures show) young people don't like spending times in bars nor do they like golf either tbh. I suspect encouraging integration in a golf club via this method is not particularly future proof.
It's based upon archaic logic and is a deterrent for new members especially those not from the area.
You can disagree if you like but it was deterrent for me, as it was for the OP, you acknowledge no longer being a member(perhaps not an issue) and it is not a widely adopted methodology so I feel well supported in dismissing its merits.0 -
Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »Are you from the area though? If you're not from the area I assume you're around long enough to have been a member in multiple places.
I ask as I'm not from the area and I felt the Saturday evening method was less likely to allow me integrate into the club which was a major factor for me choosing elsewhere.
I believe (as figures show) young people don't like spending times in bars nor do they like golf either tbh. I suspect encouraging integration in a golf club via this method is not particularly future proof.
It's based upon archaic logic and is a deterrent for new members especially those not from the area.
You can disagree if you like but it was deterrent for me, as it was for the OP, you acknowledge no longer being a member(perhaps not an issue) and it is not a widely adopted methodology so I feel well supported in dismissing its merits.
I was a member there from 12 years old to 28 and have just joined another club this year after a break from golf. I am from the area. I understand you think the Saturday evening method would be a problem for getting to know people, but I think you're fears are unfounded. You'll get to meet the members in the same way as other clubs by putting your name down on the sheet. Including the lads in the bar, they'll have one from their group drop out and then that'll be a free spot for you.
It is a method that will die out because our age group isn't going to the pub in the same way. As it does the two hours worth of lines taken up will become an hour and a half and eventually they'll just do away with the system.
I think it's a shame it put you off because the experience of it is quite different to what you were expecting. That said, they used to not put the Sunday timesheet online at all. Now that actually was a problem.0 -
The people who say the method of socialising is geared towards a certain demographic and it’s out of date and will cost the club members... to me it sounds you just don’t like it because it gives someone else a better shot at a tee time. You’re not actually looking to propose a different type of socialising. You’re proposing to just do away with it because it doesn’t suit you personally.
I think you’re mistaken that this is geared towards a minority. if it was surely only a handful of lines would be taken in the draw.
I think it’s a tad selfish.
Also I think the right channel to talk about it would be an AGM rather than boards.
I also reject the idea that I’m naturally. In the members section that wants to protect the status quo. I’m not, I’m exactly like you. I don’t go to the draw and I don’t go to the bar much at all. I mainly want to play golf. But I still find it fair I just put it with it and like I said several times I never had a problem getting a decent tee time. I really think it’s a non issue.0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »The people who say the method of socialising is geared towards a certain demographic and it’s out of date and will cost the club members... to me it sounds you just don’t like it because it gives someone else a better shot at a tee time. You’re not actually looking to propose a different type of socialising. You’re proposing to just do away with it because it doesn’t suit you personally.
I think you’re mistaken that this is geared towards a minority. if it was surely only a handful of lines would be taken in the draw.
I think it’s a tad selfish.
Also I think the right channel to talk about it would be an AGM rather than boards.
I also reject the idea that I’m naturally. In the members section that wants to protect the status quo. I’m not, I’m exactly like you. I don’t go to the draw and I don’t go to the bar much at all. I mainly want to play golf. But I still find it fair I just put it with it and like I said several times I never had a problem getting a decent tee time. I really think it’s a non issue.
Apologies but I'm struggling to understand a large amount of this as I find it quite nonsensical.
You believe the removal of this method of "socialising" as you call it will cost you members is unfounded as it is the method which has been adopted for quite a long time. You do not know it will cost you membership.
Given this method is understandably not used by any other club in the locality, why would a member leave as a result of a change? What's their alternative? Leave to a club which adopts a similar BRS method out of principle?
Additionally even if your claim was true which I doubt, what about the additional members you may get as result of changing? You know for certain, you have lost two in recent months because of this method plus its lack of adoption elsewhere, that's actual proof it's not supported outside.
So by suggesting a more egalitarian and time efficient method which is widely adopted, I am now selfish? Yet the method which caters to the few who have the time to attend the golf club twice at the weekend is less selfish?
Additionally why would I attend the AGM of a club I didn't join?
I'm sure you can appreciate how my confusion is arising.
I don't claim it's an issue per se, I am simply highlighting that as a prospective member who lives in close proximity to the club in question, I like the OP decided not to pursue membership as a result of this methodology.
I dont have an issue with it but members/committees should have an issue with losing prospective members because of a strange manner of deciding tee times.0 -
Advertisement
-
That systems seems like a method for the cronies in the bar to control the best tee times and let everyone else fight it out for the scraps. Doesn't seem very fair to me.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
0 -
Yet no one reacts to the fact that it’s really a non issue what with BRS and everything. I said several times that there is no problem getting a good tee time. Yet it’s that bit that people seem to ignore.
I think you’re just trolling against a certain club for some reason now.
Edit: I mean really? You live close by the strongest golf course in the wider area and you decide not to join and rather travel because of this?0 -
Just to mention, you can't take a line with blue note+2, you have to put down your playing partners names. The way around this is a group of 10 of you can put down each others names. Not all 10 will be available, so you can sub in and out by the end of the week for who's able to play. And remove the unneeded lines once you know they're not needed. But this happens on BRS anyway.
Although in my current club people can put down "public" with them and book a line. This p1sses me off!0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »Yet no one reacts to the fact that it’s really a non issue what with BRS and everything. I said several times that there is no problem getting a good tee time. Yet it’s that bit that people seem to ignore.
I think you’re just trolling against a certain club for some reason now.
Edit: I mean really? You live close by the strongest golf course in the wider area and you decide not to join and rather travel because of this?
I'll leave it there, I raised very valid points, yet you now accuse me of trolling. You can be an ostrich on the issue if you wish but I'm in the majority on the topic so I'll leave it there before you drag it down into the infantile "trolling" domain.
FTW, perhaps you should take a look at the most recent course rankings and subsequent thread on here before you big its superiority. It's a gorgeous course but it's horses for courses, it's dominance is by no means self-evident.
https://irishgolfer.ie/top-100/2018/12/21/the-irish-golfer-magazine-top-100-irish-course-ranking-2019-d1/0 -
I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If you live close by you live in the town itself. So the closest course after that is easily 30 to 40 minutes away. Which is huge when it comes to summer golf after work practicing etc. It adds another hour to that allegedly so precious Sunday time.
So a decision to not join over this non issue and rather put up with the 35 minute drive (back and forth) makes little to no sense. Whether you feel in the majority opinion or not, it doesn’t add up.0 -
I think mur28's point is that regardless of whether it actually makes a material difference the perception is there for an outsider that it will. There's a couple of members (or past in my case) who experienced it and found it fine, but for prospective members it's off-putting. I don't it has much of a difference in attracting members and I don't think we'd lose any if we dropped it either. I think the club bar would lose a few grand a year though.
And Williamstown is about 15 minutes drive from tramore GC. there's no comparison between the courses, but it's there. I'd actually have tramore as comfortably the best in the county, but the castle and faithleg are very nice courses too. I'm surprised there's such a difference on that list to golf digest, think we're about 40 places higher there and that's after dropping about 15 places in a few years on that. But those lists are funny, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »Yet no one reacts to the fact that it’s really a non issue what with BRS and everything. I said several times that there is no problem getting a good tee time. Yet it’s that bit that people seem to ignore.
I think you’re just trolling against a certain club for some reason now.
Edit: I mean really? You live close by the strongest golf course in the wider area and you decide not to join and rather travel because of this?
One man's 'good tee time' is another man's nightmare, to be honest.
BRS, opens up @ midday the Thursday of the preceding week, "first up best dressed" is as fair as it gets. Donabate have the "don't cancel before 8pm = lose your entry fee" rule. current club doesn't, and the amount of pricking around with tee-times is scandalous.
If, say, 1 player shows up out of 4 and he has to wait to see if there's room to squeeze into the next 4-ball etc.......couple that with the odd slow group and sometimes there's a 30 minute+ delay in the times. If you've turned up half an hour before your allotted time, that's a royal PITA.
Having said that, my brother's FIL is a member there years and he said they used to use a physical timesheet that you fill in with a biro. He had an appointment or something one day so had to get out and finished by a certain time that was always booked by the same 4-ball. He enquired about when the timesheets were available and told X o'clock on a Saturday or whatever, so showed up half an hour early. Waits around for an hour, no sign of the sheet. Another 15 mins later it eventually comes out with the usual suspects occupying the slot he wants, even though he's the only one present.
He called out the player in the first slots name out loud in the bar three times. No answer, so he says out loud, "Looks like he isn't here so he couldn't have booked that time". Scribbles out his name and puts in his own. The other three didn't show up so he just played a casual round on his own and got a refund of the comp fee. He was well prepared to defend it if called on it but nothing ever came of it. BRS was brought in about 2 months later.0 -
Ok, trolling was maybe a bit on the strong side, apologies.
My point is that its easily the best course between Mt Juliet on the one side and Fota on the other. If you live close by by why would you be deterred by what can only be called an inconvenience to the extent that you'd rather add one hour of driving. Not saying you can't its anyone's decision after all. But if I weighed up driving to the Castle (20-25 minutes plus ferry) which is lovely no doubt or to Ferrybank or Faithlegg (35 - 40 minutes) over putting up with the draw I wouldn't have to think for minute.
I think there is picture being painted here of some old codgers making rules for themselves and its not true. Its a members owned club we make the rules ourselves and the draw has not been under any internal criticism as far as I know. Loads of people seem to go to it in fact.
Even most guys like me who dont benefit from it dont really object to it. Its easy to work your way around it.0 -
CalamariFritti wrote: »If you live close by by why would you be deterred by what can only be called an inconvenience to the extent that you'd rather add one hour of driving.
One hours driving at a time of your choosing beats having to be in the clubhouse at a certain time outside of your control.0 -
Advertisement
-
Clubs should really get rid of the option for one person to book a full line. I know two lads that always do it. They book the line but only two of them show up so they dont have to play with anyone else.
Everyone should have to logon like everyone else and book their own time or at the very most only allow you book two spots It would stop people doing what the lads are at above but it would also encourage players to play with different people as well.
And anyone showing up for a competition without booking on the BRS shouldnt be allowed play - No exceptions. This wouldnt be long cutting out that behaviour.
People like the two examples above are costing their clubs money doing what they do. And it seems to be tolerated everywhere unfortunately.
Wouldn't it be easier for the competition secretary just to have a quiet word with these two lads and tell them that their behaviour was not acceptable ?
Sledgehammer and nut come to mind. ?0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement