Creed must go?

epfff

Should Creed step down with the way he has handled this protest?

He has tried to mislead the country by tell dail yesterday that death threath existed that the garda and no one else knows about in a effort to blacken protest then following up with a 100m sound bite instead of meeting taking a letter and saying thanks ill look into it in front of the cameras.

Can mods put up a pull?

wrangler

epfff wrote: »

Should Creed step down with the way he has handled this protest?

He has tried to mislead the country by tell dail yesterday that death threath existed that the garda and no one else knows about in a effort to blacken protest then following up with a 100m sound bite instead of meeting taking a letter and saying thanks ill look into it in front of the cameras.

Can mods put up a pull?

IF protest is about the injunctions (don't think even the farmers know what it's about) can the government tell a private business to lift the injunctions.

whelan2

Massey is classy!

The minister has spoken to the protestors this morning

epfff

Creed is fine, he's doing a grand job!

whelan2 wrote: »

The minister has spoken to the protestors this morning

I see that now
My problem mainly surrounds the untruths he spread in dail yesterday

Beechwoodspark

Creed should step down.

He’s very weak and ineffectual and that was before his bluster yesterday. Creed out.

boggerman1

whelan2 wrote: »

The minister has spoken to the protestors this morning

But the protesters ain't happy.according to them he didn't meet the right ones .

_Brian

Lads, the minister is essentially a spokesman for the government position on agriculture and the Taoiseach.

Firstly, did anyone think a FG government were going to be any good for agriculture over big business ?

Lastly, with some of the ignorance and homophobic comments about the Taoiseach yesterday I’d say they will hang around a long time before he gives them any heed, plus he has the support of Dublin against the blockade now which is substantial.

You can’t insult, demean, inconvenience and ignore everyone along the way and then be listened to in a sensible way.

Creed will do what he’s told, tKe the letter from those boggers, tell them you’ll look into it and get them to fcuk back to the 1950’s where they seem to have come from.

CrabRevolution

Just from an outside perspective, hearing the protesters and their accounts and demands on the radio this morning and whatever the rights and wrongs of their cause, they really didn't come across as very cohesive or well organised.

They claimed they'd leave if Creed met them; Creed did meet them but apparently he met the wrong people.

One of the protesters' claimed "selling points" is that they aren't an organised group with leaders and spokespeople, but simply the grassroots rank and file of Irish farmers. Yet apparently there's only an unspecified few people they want Creed talking to.

He accepted a letter from the group but apparently there's more than one group, each with their own letter which they want Creed to look at.

They say they're not leaving until Creed signs a legally binding agreement conceding to their demands. Surely anyone with any knowledge of law and democracy knows this just isn't acceptable or workable?

The Nal

They should've collectively paid a few hundred quid to a PR firm asking how to go about this. Its amateur hour and they won't get any sympathy from Joe Spudmuncher by pissing off hundreds of thousands of Irish commuters who themselves are just trying to earn some money and get on with their lives.

partyguinness

Indeed disrupting commuters trying to make a living and who don't have the luxury of EU subsidies and a whole array of tax payers money flowing into their bank account every month.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note: Poll added.

Knock yourselves out.

But not anybody else!:pac:

Buford T. Justice

bogman_bass

Massey is classy!

Leo couldn’t accept his resignation now. The government can’t be seen to be bullied into the makeup of the cabinet

Bass Reeves

Creed is fine, he's doing a grand job!

Creed has mishandled this situation from the start. He has deferred to IFA.in virtually everything. The lads that think the farmers up in Dublin or supporting BP are in a minority are incorrect. Irish farming is split down the middle at present.
In what other business or trade do you need to be in the top 10% to make a profit. The economics of beef production are crazy at present. Quoting average EU prices is BS. I have no issue with commercial focus but constant changing of spec and pricing is wrecking facing profit and income. Most of this has been thrown onto a large number of smaller farm units

This did not start in July. The beef industry has been ignored by both Creed, Teagasc and other farm organisations especially IFA for the last 3-5 years. It was interesting that during the Smith debacle the powers that be both in Government and mainstream farm journalism did everything to protect IFA. When VP arrived it was seen first as novelty,then as a crowd of radical whingers. When the beef protest started most expected it to fizzle out.it did not.
Since then a establishment cohort has blamed BP for everything to do with the present beef debacle. It too Creed and the government and the government establishment 5-6 weeks of the protest to realize that these farmers were serious.
When the tractor protest started most taught that like most previous IFA protests over the last 5years the numbers would be small and fizse out. Creed added petrol to the fire by his statement to the dail yesterday

For the last 8weeks since the protests stopped he has failed to resolve the C and D injunction issue. Even after it stopped a meeting of the beef taskforce he sat on his hands. ,A phone call to both the management of AIBP and C and D foods telling them to cop themselves on and remove the injunctions would have stopped this festering.

The death threats saga is just another load of BS. It's an unproven allegation even if reported to the Gardai. Creed and every other agri minister has backed the status quo for the last 20years. But more and more farmers are finding themselves outside the status quo.

Over the last 5years retailers and processor's have manipulated the beef market use of different methods to bring beef prices down from a 4-4.4/kg baseband to at present a 3.5ish/kg base. Creed can the competition Authority can hide behind the BS we need proof but farmers are at breaking point.

For all FF faults I cannot imagine and FF toiseach allowing this to get to the stage where it is now. Even the finisher's slush fund the Beam was a disaster and it was targeted at a sub section of farmers and did nothing for the smaller farmer. A top up on BPS to beef farmers would have taken some of the sting out of tjis

Wildly Boaring

Sure he'll be gone for good in 6 months!

epfff wrote: »

I see that now
My problem mainly surrounds the untruths he spread in dail yesterday

Company in question have confirmed that he was correct in dail yesterday.

So you now have no grievance with him?

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Creed has mishandled this situation from the start. He has deferred to IFA.in virtually everything. The lads that think the farmers up in Dublin or supporting BP are in a minority are incorrect. Irish farming is split down the middle at present.
In what other business or trade do you need to be in the top 10% to make a profit. The economics of beef production are crazy at present. Quoting average EU prices is BS. I have no issue with commercial focus but constant changing of spec and pricing is wrecking facing profit and income. Most of this has been thrown onto a large number of smaller farm units

This did not start in July. The beef industry has been ignored by both Creed, Teagasc and other farm organisations especially IFA for the last 3-5 years. It was interesting that during the Smith debacle the powers that be both in Government and mainstream farm journalism did everything to protect IFA. When VP arrived it was seen first as novelty,then as a crowd of radical whingers. When the beef protest started most expected it to fizzle out.it did not.
Since then a establishment cohort has blamed BP for everything to do with the present beef debacle. It too Creed and the government and the government establishment 5-6 weeks of the protest to realize that these farmers were serious.
When the tractor protest started most taught that like most previous IFA protests over the last 5years the numbers would be small and fizse out. Creed added petrol to the fire by his statement to the dail yesterday

For the last 8weeks since the protests stopped he has failed to resolve the C and D injunction issue. Even after it stopped a meeting of the beef taskforce he sat on his hands. ,A phone call to both the management of AIBP and C and D foods telling them to cop themselves on and remove the injunctions would have stopped this festering.

The death threats saga is just another load of BS. It's an unproven allegation even if reported to the Gardai. Creed and every other agri minister has backed the status quo for the last 20years. But more and more farmers are finding themselves outside the status quo.

Over the last 5years retailers and processor's have manipulated the beef market use of different methods to bring beef prices down from a 4-4.4/kg baseband to at present a 3.5ish/kg base. Creed can the competition Authority can hide behind the BS we need proof but farmers are at breaking point.

For all FF faults I cannot imagine and FF toiseach allowing this to get to the stage where it is now. Even the finisher's slush fund the Beam was a disaster and it was targeted at a sub section of farmers and did nothing for the smaller farmer. A top up on BPS to beef farmers would have taken some of the sting out of tjis

You're off again, you've a group doing something now and you're not supporting, I'm calling BS now.

1373

Sure he'll be gone for good in 6 months!

I think blaming creed is completely bonkers . Guys in the mart waiting for a smell of a price rise and up goes prices a€100hd . While we stay over supplying product to the factories, a six year old could figure out what happens then . While I’m at it our meal suppliers have been profiteering from cheap barley this autumn also

tayto lover

Sure he'll be gone for good in 6 months!

Don’t know much about Creed whether he’s good or not but was there not 100million set aside for farmers recently.
They come across as feeling as entitled as the won’t work brigade.

wrangler

1373 wrote: »

I think blaming creed is completely bonkers . Guys in the mart waiting for a smell of a price rise and up goes prices a€100hd . While we stay over supplying product to the factories, a six year old could figure out what happens then . While I’m at it our meal suppliers have been profiteering from cheap barley this autumn also

I'd put money on Creed asking C and D to give in, If they had death threats , they're right now to teach them a lesson and leave the injunctions

wrangler

tayto lover wrote: »

Don’t know much about Creed whether he’s good or not but was there not 100million set aside for farmers recently.
They come across as feeling as entitled as the won’t work brigade.

Yea, 100m
They're Like a calf on a teat , full now and starting to get bould:D

Bass Reeves

Creed is fine, he's doing a grand job!

tayto lover wrote: »

Don’t know much about Creed whether he’s good or not but was there not 100million set aside for farmers recently.
They come across as feeling as entitled as the won’t work brigade.

The fund was targeted at a subsection of larger finisher's. While some of the find was set aside for Suckler farmers terms and conditions precluded many from taking advantage of it. Less that 70%of the fund will be taken up and some of that will be recouped in clawbacks because of terms and conditions.

epfff

Creed is fine, he's doing a grand job!

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Company in question have confirmed that he was correct in dail yesterday.

So you now have no grievance with him?

Radio still reporting different

wrangler

epfff wrote: »

Radio still reporting different

Are they not being ran outa town at the moment

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Gardai have confirmed they had had a complaint from c and d foods about a malicious phone call but nothing about a death threat. A scurrilous shameful comment from a sly rat politician.

C and D told Sean Orourke this morning there was a death threat

PhilOssophy

These people were not representing the IFA/ICSA or any other farming body.
It was basically a bunch of headbangers who wanted to burn some diesel in their tractors.
The Minister should have told them to take a hike, which I hope he did. Otherwise he or another Minister have a different 100 annoyed farmers/social welfare recipients/pensioners/whatever blockading Kildare Street next week.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

They didn’t say it on air but Seán O’Rourke did indeed announce that and later he announced the Garda statement on the matter.

Creed claims he was told by MII. A group who pertain not to represent or deal with C and d. And he notified the minister for justice. So why don’t the gardai corroborate his story!!! It’s not just what he done but the thinking behind it. Essentially calling the protestors scumbags.

A woman on duffy today accused creed of calling the farmers thugs and Joe stopped her and told her he didn't want to listen to alternative facts, so is scumbags alternative facts as well.
Protestors are great at making up stories to support their story, My neighbour spewed on facebook that Joe Healy tried to stop the tractor protest and I chased that up and could get no evidence of that, his policy was that member could decide for themselves. Using 'ALTERNATIVE FACTS '' like that is just sad

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

I’m not on the joe Duffy show but to correct my statement in my opinion creed was telling what he knew to be an untruth or at least gross exaggeration in order to discredit the characters of protestors by implying that would engage in such acts. He didn’t resort to outright name calling.

With what's going on with Quinns, C and D aren't going to tell of death threats unless they were made.
It must be horrible for a family to be targetted

They had no business to be at C and Ds gates

Water John

Joe Healy, on the back of this, gets wheeled out on RTE. He's claiming the farmers should get higher price, based on the comparator just published.
It wasn't his initiative that got this published or took the innovation of starting POs. Brass neck.
Having said that I personally wasn't in favour of the tractorcade.

Stop the nonsense of dragging the Quinn issue into it.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

Joe Healy, on the back of this, gets wheeled out on RTE. He's claiming the farmers should get higher price, based on the comparator just published.
It wasn't his initiative that got this published or took the innovation of starting POs. Brass neck.
Having said that I personally wasn't in favour of the tractorcade.

Stop the nonsense of dragging the Quinn issue into it.

That's rubbish they obviously were threatened or they wouldn't have said it

171170

Jjameson wrote: »

I’m not on the joe Duffy show but to correct my statement in my opinion creed was telling what he knew to be an untruth or at least gross exaggeration in order to discredit the characters of protestors by implying that would engage in such acts. He didn’t resort to outright name calling.

Creed didn't even need to open his mouth to discredit the protesters.

The yobbish, ignorant element of the protesters managed that, all by themselves.

I have no idea who the ignorant buffoon who threatened the people of Dublin on Drivetime this evening is, but the more intelligent arrangers* of the protest really need to ensure that he is never let near a reporter's microphone again.

*here I'm assuming that someone in the movement has brains, although I heard little evidence of it on my radio today.

Welding Rod

The blockade tractors generally speaking looked pretty poorly. True reflection of the mess farming is in.
The good people of Dublin trying to get to work and about their business, are really on the side of the poor farmer now.
Eh .... ??????

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

C and d claimed to have reported same to the Gardai and have been proved to be lying by a Garda press statement later in the day.

Don't make me laugh, guards pfft....... public disservice
Public service is no longer fit for purpose

weatherbyfoxer

what do people think would have happened if creed had of went out to the protesters?...the protestors would have stood there quietly and and had a meaningful discussion?..not a chance!..everyone knows what the reaction would have been a crowd roaring abuse at him!

look at what happens everytime cormac healy from mii appears..doesnt have to say anything because all the farmers block it by roaring abuse..these people have lots to answer for but if there not allowed whats the point of looking for answers

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Getting ridiculous now. I sincerely hope you don’t have cause to require the gardai because it would that perspective.

Had two robberies here, nothing done about either of them

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Not a big fan of this rural Td normally https://www.thejournal.ie/independent-td-says-creed-should-apologise-or-resign-4908781-Nov2019/

Independent TDs will support any proposal to further their cause, they never have to consider the consequences like those in power.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Jjameson wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/c-d-foods-to-apply-to-have-injunctions-struck-out/

They should have been struck out a long time ago. <snip>minister should vacate his position.

Mod note: Lets not go down this route again?

Buford T. Justice

wrangler

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Mod note: Lets not go down this route again?

Buford T. Justice

They're trying to build a case against Creed, based mainly on ''alternative facts'', I'd say Agriculture has become the disaster area for government like Health and would be impossible to replace creed

Spanish Eyes

How can anyone interfere with a PLC in Agriculture in order to help farmers, would anyone like to tell me?

Just wondered.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How can anyone interfere with a PLC in Agriculture in order to help farmers, would anyone like to tell me?

Just wondered.

The agreement to end the blockade and starting the new beef forum talks was dependent on all participants withdrawing all injunctions against named and unnamed parties participating in the protest and the farmers removing all pickets from all effected businesses.

All the blockades were lifted but all the injunctions were not, until late today, a number of months after the blockades were lifted.

That's not a good indication of the seriousness with which one side are taking the proposed forum.

I see blockades resuming again in a fairly short timeframe and not lifting until agreements are reached.

wrangler

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The agreement to end the blockade and starting the new beef forum talks was dependent on all participants withdrawing all injunctions against named and unnamed parties participating in the protest and the farmers removing all pickets from all effected businesses.

All the blockades were lifted but all the injunctions were not, until late today, a number of months after the blockades were lifted.

That's not a good indication of the seriousness with which one side are taking the proposed forum.

I see blockades resuming again in a fairly short timeframe and not lifting until agreements are reached.

Do you think the task force will be any different than the beef forum, MII should have a price rise to offer this time and maybe it's the reason they've held off upping the price

Spanish Eyes

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The agreement to end the blockade and starting the new beef forum talks was dependent on all participants withdrawing all injunctions against named and unnamed parties participating in the protest and the farmers removing all pickets from all effected businesses.

All the blockades were lifted but all the injunctions were not, until late today, a number of months after the blockades were lifted.

That's not a good indication of the seriousness with which one side are taking the proposed forum.

I see blockades resuming again in a fairly short timeframe and not lifting until agreements are reached.

Still, with respect that does not answer the question about interference with a PLC does it? They are not beholden to anyone, as is every PLC really Agricultural or not. Don't get it.

Water John

It's called, soft power. The Minister is supposed to be a person of influence.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Still, with respect that does not answer the question about interference with a PLC does it? They are not beholden to anyone, as is every PLC really Agricultural or not. Don't get it.

It does as C&D foods are owned by ABP which is one of the parties giving their respective commitments on actions they were going to take to stop the blockade and allow talks to begin.

Base price

Massey is classy!

wrangler wrote: »

Do you think the task force will be any different than the beef forum, MII should have a price rise to offer this time and maybe it's the reason they've held off upping the price

I think you are right. Prior to the last fortnight they used EU prices as an argument not too, now they cannot use that excuse any more.

Spanish Eyes

Still not getting the reality of anyone of any hue interfering with a plc. It cannot happen imv.

Over to you lot now!

wrangler

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Still not getting the reality of anyone of any hue interfering with a plc. It cannot happen imv.

Over to you lot now!

I think the fact that the guards are ignoring and giving carte blanche to the protest would have them worried.

I am agreeing with you though

tanko

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Still not getting the reality of anyone of any hue interfering with a plc. It cannot happen imv.

Over to you lot now!

Which PLC are you referring to?

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I think you are right. Prior to the last fortnight they used EU prices as an argument not too, now they cannot use that excuse any more.

I was in negotiations often enough to know that you have to give something, let them think they won.

Water John

The point is, if the Minister can't, knock heads together and get them all in one room, he has little sway.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

The point is, if the Minister can't, knock heads together and get them all in one room, he has little sway.

Factories won't be pushed, Guards ignoring/not bothering the protests is a bigger threat to them now

jaymla627

Creed is fine, he's doing a grand job!

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How can anyone interfere with a PLC in Agriculture in order to help farmers, would anyone like to tell me?

Just wondered.

40 years of backhanders and blatant fraud and strokes been pulled by various governments to aid and abate one person have facilitated the creation of a cartel that basically controls all thy Irish/English beef trade, and a good chunk of europe, if the government hadnt of interfered and let Larry go to the wall back in the early 1990's we wouldn't have the ****show on offer at the minute

Base price

Massey is classy!

wrangler wrote: »

Factories won't be pushed, Guards ignoring/not bothering the protests is a bigger threat to them now

Not after today's statement by C&D and you can be assured that they will apply it to the ABP group. Whatever about protests there will be no blockades in the future.

“We understand and respect the right to picket and peacefully protest, but there is no place for blockades, threats and intimidation of staff and suppliers.
“The Minister for Justice has assured us that the relevant authorities will act to protect our employees, our business and uphold the rule of law.
“Following these consultations and assurances, we have decided to apply to strike out these injunctions.”