New, unregistered Irish-bought car from 1976 - where do I start?

alfa beta

So, my Dad (God rest his motoring and hoarding soul) bought a new Peugeot 504 in 1976, drove it home, decided he wasn't that keen on it, wrapped it in a few blankets and some plastic sheets, then kept it hidden away in the garage for the rest of his (and its) life.


It's now 2019 so the car is 43 years old, yet to all intents and purposes, it's actually brand new - unregistered as far as I can see and with just a couple of hundred miles on the clock. I'd love to get it up and running but need a few pointers as to where I should start with regard to the tax/registration side of things as I've no knowledge about classics at all.


The car has no plates and there is no sign of a log book or any form of documentation, not even a sales invoice/receipt or anything like that (you see, while he was an avid hoarder of things, he wasn't so keen a keeper of paperwork :-). So, my question is, what would be the first step to take as regard getting this car officially on the road?



(Btw, my dad's entire estate was left to my mum when he passed away last year, so I guess she would be the official owner now and we would be looking to register it in her name.)

As I said above, any initial pointers from anyone who has any direct knowledge of this sort of thing would be great. I have done some googling but I haven't found a scenario exactly like this, so I thought it would be worth asking the question here and seeing what you guys think and what advice you could offer - Many thanks in advance for your help.

irshmerc

Motor tax office, facts are always gonna be better than opinions.


Good luck

macplaxton

NCTS will register it on behalf of Revenue. VRT category C is flat rate €200.

First step would be to approach an organisation or club in order to get some details verified. Membership or a fee may be charged.

From the NCTS:

"For Vintage Vehicles: if the original documentation is not available, a declaration in respect of the vehicle particulars from an enthusiasts’ organisation or club which provides the data necessary for registration will be accepted at the centre. The letter must include year of manufacture, first date of registration year, engine size, make and model."

Perhaps the IVVCC (Irish Veteran & Vintage Car Club - www.ivvcc.ie ) could help you either themselves or refer you to the appropriate organisation.

[I know in the UK the registration authorities there have a list of clubs (V765) they'll accept supporting evidence from where manufacturers no longer have records or aren't interested. From what I hear it's quite hard to get on the list and quite easy to get struck off it. If they don't actually see the vehicle themselves, they can't sign it off and in certain circumstances have to send another club on the list to assist (even if not for the same marque) as they might be considerably closer.]

Good luck with getting the information you need in a format that the NCTS require.

alfa beta

Thanks for that info Macplaxton - and for the links - looks like a good starting point - appreciate your help

pablo128

This thread is no use without pics.:)

pablo128

pablo128 wrote: »

This thread is no use without pics.:)

Would love to see some, but was waiting for someone else to ask

OU812

It's probably going to need some work on the engine. If he just parked it after buying it & deciding he didn't like it (how rich are you exactly), then chances are the fluids in the engine are all gone & there may be some other damage.

Maybe you should document it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Mz6YNb4uA

Love to see some pics

alfa beta

I'll post pics as soon as I can - At the moment the car is still well and truly covered and parked at the back of a (thankfully dry) shed surrounded by other dead (but, unlike the peugeot, very used and invariably rusty) vehicles. The old man could not get rid of anything lol.


Last time I looked at it (a good few years back now) the body and interior etc were absolutely perfect - it even had that 'new car smell'!! Mechanically I don't yet know what will need doing - obviously after years and years of just sitting there, lots of things would presumably be seized up. I'll just have to get googling and hopefully find someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to bringing something like this back to life.


Definitely an interesting project though and one that I'll update on this thread on as I navigate my way through it.



(Oh and as for the question as to whether my dad was rich. The answer is not really, just a bit eccentric!!)

Isambard

we'll be happy to look at the rusty ones too.....

The Red Ace

Rare to hear of a discovery like this in this country and it will draw some attention when you start to bring it to shows, as regards registering, it may be worth an email or phone call to Gowan distributors with the chassis number as they may still have records as to which main agent got delivery of the car when new. If you can find the dealer there is a chance records still exist which would tell you if it was registered and reclaim its original number. Good luck and looking forward to seeing some pics, btw I had a 404 around the same time and still have a 205 gti under wraps.

Titzon Toast

This is gonna be great!

aujopimur

€200 VRT will not apply here, It will be liable to 36%VRT.

The Red Ace

The Red Ace wrote: »

it may be worth an email or phone call to Gowan distributors with the chassis number as they may still have records as to which main agent got delivery of the car when new. If you can find the dealer there is a chance records still exist which would tell you if it was registered and reclaim its original number.

Yeah, it'd be more special with an original and not a ZV

Titzon Toast wrote: »

This is gonna be great!

Like a motor version of the safe thread... only with something worthwhile

w124man

Surely if this car has not been registered before all the normal VRT rules will not apply.

contrary_devil

Nice one OP.
I would also suggest that Gowan Distributors be your first port of call, I had to contact them a few years ago and I found them very helpful. If you're lucky someone there might be interested in your story and be more than willing to help.

Best of luck with your endeavour.

Isambard

my bet is that a 1976 car would have been "FOR REG" and a number allocated. How you find out, I don't know.

alfa beta

All interesting stuff folks - thanks for the info - especially the pointers to Gowan motors - I didn't realise they were distributers as far back as 1969 so that may well be a good place to start. Thanks again

kaizersoze

*****Follow Thread*****

Titzon Toast

Pics OP. Give us pics please.

alfa beta

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Pics OP. Give us pics please.

lol - okay - I'll see what i can get - lack of light and space may be a prob but I'll try my best!!

SmartinMartin

Bloody Ell, this is one to watch.

unkel

alfa beta wrote: »

So, my Dad (God rest his motoring and hoarding soul) bought a new Peugeot 504 in 1976, drove it home, decided he wasn't that keen on it

What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story

unkel

unkel wrote: »

What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story

The barn being there for that many years suggests a farmer. Maybe he sold some land with good road frontage and only a 90-minute commute to Dublin.

alfa beta

unkel wrote: »

What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story

He was a genius, a hard worker, an entrepreneur (before the word became trendy) and thrifty as hell when it came to watching the pennies. As an electrician and a electrical shop owner in the 1960's (Around the time of full rural electrification) he was in the right place at the right time. TVs and radios were his forte, but he'd buy and sell anything - electricals, hardware, bikes, motorbikes, household stuff, clocks, you name it, he'd stock it and sell it. And not only could he sell stuff, he could repair pretty much anything too (especially in the days when electrical goods were repairable).



There was certainly no old money in the family - to be honest there was no money at all, as his Dad (my grandfather) died when my Dad was just a kid, which meant he was packed off to some industrial school in Dublin during his teens while his mother tried to make ends meet by running a very small farm (12 acres) on her own. On finishing school he got a job in a shop, and when he was refused a raise that he asked for after a couple of years, he decided to bite the bullet and go for things on his own. He managed to talk his way into getting a dealership (from Bush or Pye or one the popular electrical suppliers at the time (early 60's)) and by working his arse off over the next few years and steering clear of debt when he could (that was his big no-no!) he made a success of things.

I would have been 4 in 1976 so I've no memory of him buying that car, nor am I 100% sure why he never used it. He always had lots of 'stuff' around the place by then so an extra car wrapped up at the back of a shed wasn't that unusual!!. He was always repairing things, old motorbikes or gramaphones or furniture etc with mates of his, maybe buying old Ferguson tractors for no apparent reason, there's even a couple of boats lying around though he was **** scared of the sea. Buying, selling, fixing, repairing.... that was what he lived for. And he could turn his hand to anything, from plumbing to electrics to building (and also to things of a more artistic vein like acting, painting and poetry.) It was only in his latter years I really began to appreciate him for the (sometimes eccentric but always likeable and dependable) genius that he genuinely was.


I miss him. We all do. It would be a lot more fun to be getting his gadgets and his gizmos up and running if he was still here. He'd know what to do with them, you see. That was the thing with him, he always seemed to know what to do

unkel

That's a lovely post and a great tribute to your father. Brought a tear to my eye. My own father was very much the same and I didn't appreciate him enough until after he was gone. He was a research engineer for Philips electronics all his working life. And as someone very concerned with where the world was heading from back decades ago, since the early 70s, he would have loved the big changes for the good in tech that are happening now, like renewable energies and electric cars. He had solar PV panels on his roof in the 90s!

alfa beta

alfa beta wrote: »

He was a genius, a hard worker, an entrepreneur (before the word became trendy) and thrifty as hell when it came to watching the pennies. As an electrician and a electrical shop owner in the 1960's (Around the time of full rural electrification) he was in the right place at the right time. TVs and radios were his forte, but he'd buy and sell anything - electricals, hardware, bikes, motorbikes, household stuff, clocks, you name it, he'd stock it and sell it. And not only could he sell stuff, he could repair pretty much anything too (especially in the days when electrical goods were repairable).

Up until this point I was wondering if a family member of mine had wrote this post. It's very similar to my own dad. When you said you were 4 in 1976 I was wondering if I posted it :pac: The rest is also very similar, a pathological dislike for debt. He was once asked to set up a company to manufacturer TV's but wouldn't take on the risk.

However, from the south. I'd say your and my dad would have had a lot in common!

My dad is in his late 80s. A few years back he built a sizeable spitfire with a wingspan of several feet from the weekly magazines, that actually flies. He did learn to be a pilot when younger, and had bought the colour blind test book because... he was colour blind. But, his was only a hobby pilot, never owned a plane, but flying solo is probably one of his most treasured memories. Being colour blind never stopped him being a consummate TV repair mine either.

Looking forwards to seeing the pics.

The Red Ace

unkel wrote: »

What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story

Unkel, afraid to disappoint you but there was car financing back then, as mentioned I had a Peugeot 404 as a young fellow around the same time all with the compliments of Mercantile Credit, any one remember them.

Wheelnut

Yeah, I remember Mercantile Credit, I had several loans from them for cars.

Regarding the advice to go to the motor tax office, I'm not so sure. I recently had to deal with the registration of a 1958 vintage tractor. The motor tax office was able to find the file in their archive section. The registration number and chassis number matched but the description said it was a van. The girl on the phone suggested that I might have had it converted! Obviously a mistake had been made when transferring it to archive. The point is that motor tax staff are not technically minded so you can not depend on any technical facts produced by them.

ncmc

I’m very sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like a wonderful man. I hope you can get the car sorted and get it up and running in his memory.

Alfasudcrazy

Such a fascinating story. If you ever get weary of the ordeal I would gladly buy it as is and try to get it on the road myself. Have you any idea which 504 model it is L or GL etc. Obviously you know the colour and seat trim?

My opinion is that if the car has never been registered here at all then it could be difficult to do so now without some bureaucrat insisting that it be treated like a new VW - which would mean it would be impossible to register as it would not comply with current conformity regulations.

You may well have to export the car and get it registered in some other country then bring it back and register it here.

Yes I remember mercantile credit too - my first 128 3p was bought through it. Paid the loan off early jut to get rid of it from my life but you still got no discount for doing that

outfox

This thread should be a sticky.

JabbaTheHut

alfa beta wrote: »

He was a genius, a hard worker, an entrepreneur (before the word became trendy) and thrifty as hell when it came to watching the pennies.

Sounds like a lot of dads back then. They would have remembered the war, and know what it was like to use straw instead of tubes in bicycles, and also what it was like to make do with what you had. As well as that, things were built without built-in-obsolescence, so repair was a good option, and in most cases, was the only option.

Only thing I'll say is, for a man that watched the pennies, he didn't watch much of them when he bought what would not have been a cheap car, and then just let it sit. There was a lot of pennies in that parking spot. All I know is, my father would most certinaly not have done that. Fair play to your father and his achievements, but very very, VERY few people could afford to do that.

Regardless, my intention is not to take away from any of your post. A car with as little miles as yours is truly unique

Bitten & Hisses

Thing is, this car with its back story might be most valuable if it was displayed as-is and never touched!
(Not that I think it’s the best approach, just might be the most financially rewarding)

John Hutton

OP should give us little crypic pictures of parts of the car each day until the full reveal on Xmas day.

A boards classic car Advent calendar

Markcheese

https://youtu.be/YEJxc1r_dtI

Johnny Smith formerly of 5th gear, similar (ish)
Situation... Think it might be a 2 part video...

alfa beta

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Thing is, this car with its back story might be most valuable if it was displayed as-is and never touched!
(Not that I think it’s the best approach, just might be the most financially rewarding)

Yeah - I was thinking that recently. I mean, the minute it's registered and used on the road and stuff it just becomes another car .. .albeit an old one. The novelty of it being brand new, untouched and 100% original is what's interesting about it. Perhaps I should get two 'FOR REG' plates made and keep it that way. Just focus on getting it running and not worry about the tax/reg side of things.

alfa beta

Alfasudcrazy wrote: »

Such a fascinating story. If you ever get weary of the ordeal I would gladly buy it as is and try to get it on the road myself. Have you any idea which 504 model it is L or GL etc. Obviously you know the colour and seat trim?

It's black with a lightish brown leather interior as far as I remember (but I'm only going by memory as I haven't uncovered it in a few years).



Don't know what model it is, just that it's a diesel car, which I guess wouldn't have been too common in Ireland in 1976.


Will be in a position to have a look at the car some evening this week so will post photos :-)

mickdw

alfa beta wrote: »

Yeah - I was thinking that recently. I mean, the minute it's registered and used on the road and stuff it just becomes another car .. .albeit an old one. The novelty of it being brand new, untouched and 100% original is what's interesting about it. Perhaps I should get two 'FOR REG' plates made and keep it that way. Just focus on getting it running and not worry about the tax/reg side of things.

Or as used to be the case here, FOR REG scribbled across the plate position.

airnwater

alfa beta wrote: »

Yeah - I was thinking that recently. I mean, the minute it's registered and used on the road and stuff it just becomes another car .. .albeit an old one. The novelty of it being brand new, untouched and 100% original is what's interesting about it. Perhaps I should get two 'FOR REG' plates made and keep it that way. Just focus on getting it running and not worry about the tax/reg side of things.

Surprising what still survives !

My father had one back in the day , a white LD ,1.9 diesel afaik , b*tch to start !

Really like your thinking in the above post , it's very likely unique as an unused RHD car , would be a pity to put miles on it. A very low miles car is different , adding a few miles wouldn't matter too much.

Clean it , wax the original paint & preserve it , perhaps wax injection in cavities to make sure no rust works its way out.

Be sure & take pics of it amongst the "clutter" & more as it's uncovered

Transport it to a few shows perhaps (rope it off !) with display cards giving the back story to the car , bio of your father & photos too. Definitely would generate lots of interest.

It would be interesting to research the supplying dealership for sure.

Alfasudcrazy

I am sure some Peugeot dealer would love it for a showroom display car.

galwaytt

alfa beta wrote: »

He was a genius, a hard worker, an entrepreneur (before the word became trendy)

Gosh OP - sorry for your loss, but your story sounds like a life well lived.

And got me to thinking about my Dad.....still with us, but Def a man of his own mind. He too is....eccentric. ....and inclined to collect all manner of stuff. Cars, farm machinery, etc. Last time I checked there were.....22 cars at home.....originally a boat builder and carpenter he went through lots of phases. ...and he plays music as well. We, my generation, really haven't a fraction of the talent our parents had: much of theirs learned by economic necessity.

He lives frugally, has no interest in creature comforts. He buys cars no one wants, cos he likes them. S-Class. 7-Series. LS400. etc etc. He bought an 02 540i a while ago. "Why?" I asked......."because I've always wanted to see the inside of a V8" came the reply....

He's why I'm a petrol head. And builder. And.....everything else..

Must pop over again. Mustn't leave things unsaid. Life's too short.

I'll deal with the collection when the time is right.

Thanks for the reminder.

alfa beta

galwaytt wrote: »

Must pop over again. Mustn't leave things unsaid. Life's too short.

That's lovely Galwaytt.



I never thought my post would turn in to an 'Eccentric Dad Appreciation' thread, but I'm glad it has. It seems there were (and still are in your case) quite a few geniuses, nut jobs, and hoarders out there. I think we owe it to them to uphold their legacy into the future by ignoring logic and rationale, hanging onto as much junk as we possibly can and trying to fix things wherever even vaguely feasible.


Do that, and I'm pretty sure there'll be a few ould fellas smiling down on us

Wibbs

alfa beta wrote: »

ignoring logic and rationale, hanging onto as much junk as we possibly can and trying to fix things wherever even vaguely feasible.

Welcome to my life.

mgbgt1978

Isambard wrote: »

my bet is that a 1976 car would have been "FOR REG" and a number allocated. How you find out, I don't know.

Prior to the introduction of VRT a new car did not get a Reg number until it was taxed for the 1st time. Many people got the Dealer to Tax their new car prior to collection, and consequently it had a number when they picked it up. Many didn't .



The Beauty of driving around with "For Reg" was that you were avoiding Motor Tax (at least until some Guard decided you were taking the p!ss, and threatened to Fine you).


If the OP's Father's Car does not have number plates then it's probable that it was never registered and does not have a number assigned to it. As already mentioned this technically makes it a 'new' car and it is subject to VRT if the OP wishes to register it.

Markcheese

So would that make it a 201 car if it was registered for the first time next year ..?

Bigus

Whatever About it being unregistered, I’d say all duties and vat were paid at the time .
There was no way to fiddle the system out of import duties.
This happened because cars weren’t released from the docks without everything paid upfront ,unlike now where dealer pays the vrt upon registration.

macplaxton

Markcheese wrote: »

So would that make it a 201 car if it was registered for the first time next year ..?

No. It would get an age-related plate.

This was the case with this truck which ran on trade plates and was unregistered for years.


[IRL]Wm McGuinness Mercedes Benz ZV 2940 by truck_photos, on Flickr

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64191724#post64191724

carchaeologist

And here was I thinking I had the rarest and lowest mileage 504 in the country.....🀪

macplaxton

Long time, no post there Dave!

Nice of you to drop in and post that. Excuse me while I pop down to the shops for a Caramac.

RocketRaccoon

Can't wait to see photos of the car

iamtony

This is interesting I also can't wait to see it. Anyone hazzard a guess on it value?