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New, unregistered Irish-bought car from 1976 - where do I start?

  • 27-11-2019 12:39am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ alfa beta


    So, my Dad (God rest his motoring and hoarding soul) bought a new Peugeot 504 in 1976, drove it home, decided he wasn't that keen on it, wrapped it in a few blankets and some plastic sheets, then kept it hidden away in the garage for the rest of his (and its) life.


    It's now 2019 so the car is 43 years old, yet to all intents and purposes, it's actually brand new - unregistered as far as I can see and with just a couple of hundred miles on the clock. I'd love to get it up and running but need a few pointers as to where I should start with regard to the tax/registration side of things as I've no knowledge about classics at all.


    The car has no plates and there is no sign of a log book or any form of documentation, not even a sales invoice/receipt or anything like that (you see, while he was an avid hoarder of things, he wasn't so keen a keeper of paperwork :-). So, my question is, what would be the first step to take as regard getting this car officially on the road?



    (Btw, my dad's entire estate was left to my mum when he passed away last year, so I guess she would be the official owner now and we would be looking to register it in her name.)

    As I said above, any initial pointers from anyone who has any direct knowledge of this sort of thing would be great. I have done some googling but I haven't found a scenario exactly like this, so I thought it would be worth asking the question here and seeing what you guys think and what advice you could offer - Many thanks in advance for your help.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭ irshmerc


    Motor tax office, facts are always gonna be better than opinions.


    Good luck


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭ macplaxton


    NCTS will register it on behalf of Revenue. VRT category C is flat rate €200.

    First step would be to approach an organisation or club in order to get some details verified. Membership or a fee may be charged.

    From the NCTS:

    "For Vintage Vehicles: if the original documentation is not available, a declaration in respect of the vehicle particulars from an enthusiasts’ organisation or club which provides the data necessary for registration will be accepted at the centre. The letter must include year of manufacture, first date of registration year, engine size, make and model."

    Perhaps the IVVCC (Irish Veteran & Vintage Car Club - www.ivvcc.ie ) could help you either themselves or refer you to the appropriate organisation.

    [I know in the UK the registration authorities there have a list of clubs (V765) they'll accept supporting evidence from where manufacturers no longer have records or aren't interested. From what I hear it's quite hard to get on the list and quite easy to get struck off it. If they don't actually see the vehicle themselves, they can't sign it off and in certain circumstances have to send another club on the list to assist (even if not for the same marque) as they might be considerably closer.]

    Good luck with getting the information you need in a format that the NCTS require.


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ alfa beta


    Thanks for that info Macplaxton - and for the links - looks like a good starting point - appreciate your help :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭ pablo128


    This thread is no use without pics.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭ Chinese whospers


    pablo128 wrote: »
    This thread is no use without pics.:)


    Would love to see some, but was waiting for someone else to ask :)

    I’m in love with him and I feel fine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭ OU812


    It's probably going to need some work on the engine. If he just parked it after buying it & deciding he didn't like it (how rich are you exactly), then chances are the fluids in the engine are all gone & there may be some other damage.

    Maybe you should document it



    Love to see some pics


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ alfa beta


    I'll post pics as soon as I can - At the moment the car is still well and truly covered and parked at the back of a (thankfully dry) shed surrounded by other dead (but, unlike the peugeot, very used and invariably rusty) vehicles. The old man could not get rid of anything lol.


    Last time I looked at it (a good few years back now) the body and interior etc were absolutely perfect - it even had that 'new car smell'!! Mechanically I don't yet know what will need doing - obviously after years and years of just sitting there, lots of things would presumably be seized up. I'll just have to get googling and hopefully find someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to bringing something like this back to life.


    Definitely an interesting project though and one that I'll update on this thread on as I navigate my way through it.



    (Oh and as for the question as to whether my dad was rich. The answer is not really, just a bit eccentric!!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    we'll be happy to look at the rusty ones too.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭ The Red Ace


    Rare to hear of a discovery like this in this country and it will draw some attention when you start to bring it to shows, as regards registering, it may be worth an email or phone call to Gowan distributors with the chassis number as they may still have records as to which main agent got delivery of the car when new. If you can find the dealer there is a chance records still exist which would tell you if it was registered and reclaim its original number. Good luck and looking forward to seeing some pics, btw I had a 404 around the same time and still have a 205 gti under wraps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭ Titzon Toast


    This is gonna be great!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 aujopimur


    €200 VRT will not apply here, It will be liable to 36%VRT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭ Chinese whospers


    it may be worth an email or phone call to Gowan distributors with the chassis number as they may still have records as to which main agent got delivery of the car when new. If you can find the dealer there is a chance records still exist which would tell you if it was registered and reclaim its original number.


    Yeah, it'd be more special with an original and not a ZV

    This is gonna be great!


    Like a motor version of the safe thread... only with something worthwhile :D

    I’m in love with him and I feel fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭ w124man


    Surely if this car has not been registered before all the normal VRT rules will not apply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭ contrary_devil


    Nice one OP.
    I would also suggest that Gowan Distributors be your first port of call, I had to contact them a few years ago and I found them very helpful. If you're lucky someone there might be interested in your story and be more than willing to help.

    Best of luck with your endeavour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    my bet is that a 1976 car would have been "FOR REG" and a number allocated. How you find out, I don't know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ alfa beta


    All interesting stuff folks - thanks for the info - especially the pointers to Gowan motors - I didn't realise they were distributers as far back as 1969 so that may well be a good place to start. Thanks again :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭ kaizersoze


    *****Follow Thread*****


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭ Titzon Toast


    Pics OP. Give us pics please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ alfa beta


    Pics OP. Give us pics please.


    lol - okay - I'll see what i can get - lack of light and space may be a prob but I'll try my best!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭ SmartinMartin


    Bloody Ell, this is one to watch.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    alfa beta wrote: »
    So, my Dad (God rest his motoring and hoarding soul) bought a new Peugeot 504 in 1976, drove it home, decided he wasn't that keen on it

    What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story :)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭ Ads by Google


    unkel wrote: »
    What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story :)

    The barn being there for that many years suggests a farmer. Maybe he sold some land with good road frontage and only a 90-minute commute to Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭ alfa beta


    unkel wrote: »
    What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story :)


    He was a genius, a hard worker, an entrepreneur (before the word became trendy) and thrifty as hell when it came to watching the pennies. As an electrician and a electrical shop owner in the 1960's (Around the time of full rural electrification) he was in the right place at the right time. TVs and radios were his forte, but he'd buy and sell anything - electricals, hardware, bikes, motorbikes, household stuff, clocks, you name it, he'd stock it and sell it. And not only could he sell stuff, he could repair pretty much anything too (especially in the days when electrical goods were repairable).



    There was certainly no old money in the family - to be honest there was no money at all, as his Dad (my grandfather) died when my Dad was just a kid, which meant he was packed off to some industrial school in Dublin during his teens while his mother tried to make ends meet by running a very small farm (12 acres) on her own. On finishing school he got a job in a shop, and when he was refused a raise that he asked for after a couple of years, he decided to bite the bullet and go for things on his own. He managed to talk his way into getting a dealership (from Bush or Pye or one the popular electrical suppliers at the time (early 60's)) and by working his arse off over the next few years and steering clear of debt when he could (that was his big no-no!) he made a success of things.

    I would have been 4 in 1976 so I've no memory of him buying that car, nor am I 100% sure why he never used it. He always had lots of 'stuff' around the place by then so an extra car wrapped up at the back of a shed wasn't that unusual!!. He was always repairing things, old motorbikes or gramaphones or furniture etc with mates of his, maybe buying old Ferguson tractors for no apparent reason, there's even a couple of boats lying around though he was **** scared of the sea. Buying, selling, fixing, repairing.... that was what he lived for. And he could turn his hand to anything, from plumbing to electrics to building (and also to things of a more artistic vein like acting, painting and poetry.) It was only in his latter years I really began to appreciate him for the (sometimes eccentric but always likeable and dependable) genius that he genuinely was.


    I miss him. We all do. It would be a lot more fun to be getting his gadgets and his gizmos up and running if he was still here. He'd know what to do with them, you see. That was the thing with him, he always seemed to know what to do :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,817 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    That's a lovely post and a great tribute to your father. Brought a tear to my eye. My own father was very much the same and I didn't appreciate him enough until after he was gone. He was a research engineer for Philips electronics all his working life. And as someone very concerned with where the world was heading from back decades ago, since the early 70s, he would have loved the big changes for the good in tech that are happening now, like renewable energies and electric cars. He had solar PV panels on his roof in the 90s!

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭ Chinese whospers


    alfa beta wrote: »
    He was a genius, a hard worker, an entrepreneur (before the word became trendy) and thrifty as hell when it came to watching the pennies. As an electrician and a electrical shop owner in the 1960's (Around the time of full rural electrification) he was in the right place at the right time. TVs and radios were his forte, but he'd buy and sell anything - electricals, hardware, bikes, motorbikes, household stuff, clocks, you name it, he'd stock it and sell it. And not only could he sell stuff, he could repair pretty much anything too (especially in the days when electrical goods were repairable).

    Up until this point I was wondering if a family member of mine had wrote this post. It's very similar to my own dad. When you said you were 4 in 1976 I was wondering if I posted it :pac: The rest is also very similar, a pathological dislike for debt. He was once asked to set up a company to manufacturer TV's but wouldn't take on the risk.

    However, from the south. I'd say your and my dad would have had a lot in common!

    My dad is in his late 80s. A few years back he built a sizeable spitfire with a wingspan of several feet from the weekly magazines, that actually flies. He did learn to be a pilot when younger, and had bought the colour blind test book because... he was colour blind. But, his was only a hobby pilot, never owned a plane, but flying solo is probably one of his most treasured memories. Being colour blind never stopped him being a consummate TV repair mine either.

    Looking forwards to seeing the pics.

    I’m in love with him and I feel fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭ The Red Ace


    unkel wrote: »
    What age were you when that happened? Do you remember? Did he just go out and buy another brand new car? What did he do for a living that he could afford that, old money in the family or a really good job? Afaik there was no car financing back then, you needed to buy the car for cash. Not meaning to be nosy / prying but this is a fascinating story :)

    Unkel, afraid to disappoint you but there was car financing back then, as mentioned I had a Peugeot 404 as a young fellow around the same time all with the compliments of Mercantile Credit, any one remember them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 Wheelnut


    Yeah, I remember Mercantile Credit, I had several loans from them for cars.

    Regarding the advice to go to the motor tax office, I'm not so sure. I recently had to deal with the registration of a 1958 vintage tractor. The motor tax office was able to find the file in their archive section. The registration number and chassis number matched but the description said it was a van. The girl on the phone suggested that I might have had it converted! Obviously a mistake had been made when transferring it to archive. The point is that motor tax staff are not technically minded so you can not depend on any technical facts produced by them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ ncmc


    I’m very sorry for your loss. Your dad sounds like a wonderful man. I hope you can get the car sorted and get it up and running in his memory.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,501 Alfasudcrazy


    Such a fascinating story. If you ever get weary of the ordeal I would gladly buy it as is and try to get it on the road myself. Have you any idea which 504 model it is L or GL etc. Obviously you know the colour and seat trim?

    My opinion is that if the car has never been registered here at all then it could be difficult to do so now without some bureaucrat insisting that it be treated like a new VW - which would mean it would be impossible to register as it would not comply with current conformity regulations.

    You may well have to export the car and get it registered in some other country then bring it back and register it here.

    Yes I remember mercantile credit too - my first 128 3p was bought through it. Paid the loan off early jut to get rid of it from my life but you still got no discount for doing that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭ outfox


    This thread should be a sticky.


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