Fiber Cables Connecting to Cat 5 Internally

Higgins5473

Hi,

We just had a Sky engineer come over to our house installing a fiber connection.

We are in a new build and the house was built with Cat 5 cabling throughout. The engineer said that the external cabling is fiber only and will not be compatible with the internal Cat 5 cabling. Essentially, he was saying all the cabling in the house are network ports in the house are useless. Said it was all copper cabling which can not connect to the fiber lines outside. Is this true?

Thanks...

listermint

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Hi,

We just had a Sky engineer come over to our house installing a fiber connection.

We are in a new build and the house was built with Cat 5 cabling throughout. The engineer said that the external cabling is fiber only and will not be compatible with the internal Cat 5 cabling. Essentially, he was saying all the cabling in the house are network ports in the house are useless. Said it was all copper cabling which can not connect to the fiber lines outside. Is this true?

Thanks...

I would have hoped the engineer could have explained this correctly to you.

The fibre will transport the data over miles of connection , it reaches your house where it will connect to a Fibre Router. This will translate the connection to your local LAN which is ethernet (cat5) you connect your Cat5 to the router or a switch if you wish to install one of those too.

This is basic stuff he should have explained.

no your Cat5 is not useless. However you need to find a use for it with the LAN.

Higgins5473

listermint wrote: »

I would have hoped the engineer could have explained this correctly to you.

The fibre will transport the data over miles of connection , it reaches your house where it will connect to a Fibre Router. This will translate the connection to your local LAN which is ethernet (cat5) you connect your Cat5 to the router or a switch if you wish to install one of those too.

This is basic stuff he should have explained.

no your Cat5 is not useless. However you need to find a use for it with the LAN.

thanks, so essentially it will connect and transmit data but as soon as it reaches the CAT5, it will slow down considerably and data speed within the house will be limited to the max speed of the CAT5 cabling?

westyIrl

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Hi,

We just had a Sky engineer come over to our house installing a fiber connection.

We are in a new build and the house was built with Cat 5 cabling throughout. The engineer said that the external cabling is fiber only and will not be compatible with the internal Cat 5 cabling. Essentially, he was saying all the cabling in the house are network ports in the house are useless. Said it was all copper cabling which can not connect to the fiber lines outside. Is this true?

Thanks...

Utter tripe from the sky engineer. I didn't think sky had anything to do with fiber installs and were only service provider. Are you sure he was actually from Sky.

Either way, to solve the disconnect, can you let us know what package/service you ordered. Whatever service you get will have to have a router installed in your house which is fully compatible with all your CAT 5 cabling.

However, if it is a newbuild I'd imagine (and hope) the cabling is CAT 5E at the very least.

Jim

lawred2

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Hi,

We just had a Sky engineer come over to our house installing a fiber connection.

We are in a new build and the house was built with Cat 5 cabling throughout. The engineer said that the external cabling is fiber only and will not be compatible with the internal Cat 5 cabling. Essentially, he was saying all the cabling in the house are network ports in the house are useless. Said it was all copper cabling which can not connect to the fiber lines outside. Is this true?

Thanks...

Your CAT5 is perfectly good.

The 'engineer' however is an idiot.

Some lad who has done a PLC course for a few weeks' is not an engineer. And companies like Sky need to stop using such terms for what are simply installers. And nothing more. He should keep his opinions to the scope of what his in-house training program has informed him about... As he clearly hasn't an iota what's he's talking about.

Higgins5473

westyIrl wrote: »

Utter tripe from the sky engineer. I didn't think sky had anything to do with fiber installs and were only service provider. Are you sure he was actually from Sky.

Either way, to solve the disconnect, can you let us know what package/service you ordered. Whatever service you get will have to have a router installed in your house which is fully compatible with all your CAT 5 cabling.

However, if it is a newbuild I'd imagine (and hope) the cabling is CAT 5E at the very least.

Jim

He was a contractor, I asked him a couple of times if he was sure and he said yes. Said because the cabling was fiber, it was not compatible with the CAT5. He also, didn't install the connection saying we had only requested the basic "copper connection package" and left. The call I had with Sky, the agent said I will put you down for the basic sky broadband essential package just in case you can't get fiber (in spite of me assuring him we had it), if the 'engineer' sees fiber will be available we'll just upgrade you to that pack...yer man just leaves and says he needs to request this and that.

3 weeks waiting and a days leave off work.

We had this issue with sky in another house a few years ago, contractor comes and says we cant get sky because the trees in front of the house are blocking the dish and we wont be able to get a signal. neighbour gets sky and hears nothing about it, we ring up again, another fella arrives and installs no problem.

Is it that they are on the clock and just couldnt be arsed rather than per job?

Higgins5473

westyIrl wrote: »

However, if it is a newbuild I'd imagine (and hope) the cabling is CAT 5E at the very least.

Jim

Hi Jim, site sparks who got the contract is a cowboy. Its CAT5 only, a lot of people in the estate very unhappy about it. House less than a year old.

westyIrl

Basically, and you already sussed it, ignore everything the installer said to you, and put it down to a necessary evil. He was talking nonsense. Schedule again with Sky if you want to take your chances.

If you want to see what type of broadband service is available at your house, put your eircode in here.

https://www.airwire.ie/index.php/avail

If you're not locked in with Sky or combining packages, see if another (smaller) provider might suit better as they might take the load off dealing with the actual network owners Eir, SIRO etc.

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Hi Jim, site sparks who got the contract is a cowboy. Its CAT5 only, a lot of people in the estate very unhappy about it. House less than a year old.

Thats the epitome of cheaping out. CAT5 IIRC is only good up to 100mb. Not the end of the world but CAT5 is archaic at this stage. It all comes down to how many wired network points you require in the house and how difficult it would be to run cables from them locations to the location you install the router. If wifi is sufficient, or you don't need >100mb at the wired points, its not a big issue.

Higgins5473

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Hi Jim, site sparks who got the contract is a cowboy. Its CAT5 only, a lot of people in the estate very unhappy about it. House less than a year old.

Was it specced for cat 5e over cat 5?

Higgins5473

BrownFinger wrote: »

Was it specced for cat 5e over cat 5?

In fairness it was specced as CAT5 in the brochure in small print, so nobody to blame but ourselves. When I did ask him about it when we moved in, he was a bit sheepish about it so who knows maybe he was told to keep costs down to make the houses a bit more attractive in terms of price.

Out of curiosity for those of you in the know, how much more would it cost to kit out a 3 bed semi-d 120sq/m with CAT5 vs CAT5e...with about 7 access points. I realise thats like asking how long is a piece of string, but if a developer is building and they want to sell the houses as quickly as possible, how much of a saving would there be on the above house in estimate? Cheaping out on **** material would always have been commonplace in building I suppose it was always inevitable it would come into home networking.

tsue921i8wljb3

Higgins5473 wrote: »

In fairness it was specced as CAT5 in the brochure in small print, so nobody to blame but ourselves. When I did ask him about it when we moved in, he was a bit sheepish about it so who knows maybe he was told to keep costs down to make the houses a bit more attractive in terms of price.

Out of curiosity for those of you in the know, how much more would it cost to kit out a 3 bed semi-d 120sq/m with CAT5 vs CAT5e...with about 7 access points. I realise thats like asking how long is a piece of string, but if a developer is building and they want to sell the houses as quickly as possible, how much of a saving would there be on the above house in estimate? Cheaping out on **** material would always have been commonplace in building I suppose it was always inevitable it would come into home networking.

By access points do you mean the Ethernet jacks on the walls or do yo mean wireless access points (like a wireless router)?

I assume you just mean the former so the only real difference is in the cost of the cable. I actually thought sourcing Cat5 cable would be more difficult as it's ancient and there would be little, if any, difference in the cost of the two.

I assume that whoever was specifying the job did not understand the difference. However if the cable runs are short, the cable is of decent quality and it has been terminated well you might be able to get gigabit through it. It's worth trying anyway.

Higgins5473

Kingston Proud Unicorn wrote: »

By access points do you mean the Ethernet jacks on the walls or do yo mean wireless access points (like a wireless router)?

I assume you just mean the former so the only real difference is in the cost of the cable. I actually thought sourcing Cat5 cable would be more difficult as it's ancient and there would be little, if any, difference in the cost of the two.

I assume that whoever was specifying the job did not understand the difference. However if the cable runs are short, the cable is of decent quality and it has been terminated well you might be able to get gigabit through it. It's worth trying anyway.

Ethernet jacks...nothing is terminated. Yer man left everything bare looking for nixers, cover comes off and its a sh*t show all over the floor of plaster and using a plier to try and get a wire down far enough. Was going to try and terminate one to learn with a cheap crimping tool from amazon to learn but decided against it.

Definitely learn yourself.get a few meters of cat5 and a bunch of plugs/sockets and practice punching them down and making leads .it's handy .

degsie

If the cable is already there, you could securely tape cat5e cable to one end and 'pull' the new cable through by gently pulling on the other end.

Johnboy1951

The big question, which has not been addressed, is ...

Do the Cat5 cables from each termination point/wall plate go back to one central location?
If yes, there should be a bunch of those cable, totalling the number of ethernet points in the house.

If not then I am fearful the job is not a LAN at all ....... and maybe that is the cause of the other home owners' discontent with the job.

Higgins5473

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The big question, which has not been addressed, is ...

Do the Cat5 cables from each termination point/wall plate go back to one central location?
If yes, there should be a bunch of those cable, totalling the number of ethernet points in the house.

If not then I am fearful the job is not a LAN at all ....... and maybe that is the cause of the other home owners' discontent with the job.

Hi, yes, under the stairs there is a central location where all the wires meet. I am totally out of my depth with this bit. I realize it requires a patch panel or some kind of switch but I wouldn't know how to configure or manage and managed switch. Does anyone on here know of anyone who does this type of home networking or if anyone wants a nixer? Can't find anything on adverts. Dublin based.

Johnboy1951

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Hi, yes, under the stairs there is a central location where all the wires meet. I am totally out of my depth with this bit. I realize it requires a patch panel or some kind of switch but I wouldn't know how to configure or manage and managed switch. Does anyone on here know of anyone who does this type of home networking or if anyone wants a nixer? Can't find anything on adverts. Dublin based.

This device might be very suitable for you to terminate those ethernet cables under the stairs.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01BGVAM40/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item?th=1

Fix it in place when wired up and do not cut the cables short ..... leave a reasonable amount of slack if it exists, and tidy it up without sharp bends.
You can then, with patch cables, connect the rooms to a switch, and connect your router to the switch with a similar cable.

An 8 port switch should also be sufficient (7 room connections plus router) ..... and it does not need to be managed ..... just make sure it is Gigabit and not 100Mb.
You might consider a larger switch if you think you will need to add something else, but initially you might have some spare sockets on the router if that happens.
Switches can be cascaded in any case so you can always add another if required.

Cuddlesworth

degsie wrote: »

If the cable is already there, you could securely tape cat5e cable to one end and 'pull' the new cable through by gently pulling on the other end.

Too risky, if there are tight bends/pinch points through the joists it will just snap. If they installed CAT5 cable(where did they even get it) then there isn't a hope they put in ducting for the cabling either.

I'm not joking about getting the cable, I don't know where you would even purchase Cat5 anymore. Under the stairs, have you looked at the labelling down the side of the cabling to see what type it is and confirmed its not Cat5e?

CAT5 can do gig speeds, at shorter distances will you would normally see in a house. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world if they can't manage it. 100mb is good in the best of circumstances, and usually way better then wireless without spending a fortune.

For the fiber install, they put a fiber cable into your house with a fiber modem. What comes out of that modem is copper, which can go through your house network. Then its just a matter of A to B, B to C etc.

So if the fiber modem is in the hall, it connects to the modem, copper cable out of that into the copper port on the wall, to under the stairs. You plug a cable from that into a "switch" and then from the switch to the next port, like the sitting room. Then the port in the sitting room into the device you want.

Before you spend money on a decent wireless system, confirm 100% if its Cat5 or Cat5E on the cables. Because what I would recommend would change depending on the cable type in place.

Higgins5473

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Too risky, if there are tight bends/pinch points through the joists it will just snap. If they installed CAT5 cable(where did they even get it) then there isn't a hope they put in ducting for the cabling either.

I'm not joking about getting the cable, I don't know where you would even purchase Cat5 anymore. Under the stairs, have you looked at the labelling down the side of the cabling to see what type it is and confirmed its not Cat5e?

CAT5 can do gig speeds, at shorter distances will you would normally see in a house. It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world if they can't manage it. 100mb is good in the best of circumstances, and usually way better then wireless without spending a fortune.

For the fiber install, they put a fiber cable into your house with a fiber modem. What comes out of that modem is copper, which can go through your house network. Then its just a matter of A to B, B to C etc.

So if the fiber modem is in the hall, it connects to the modem, copper cable out of that into the copper port on the wall, to under the stairs. You plug a cable from that into a "switch" and then from the switch to the next port, like the sitting room. Then the port in the sitting room into the device you want.

Before you spend money on a decent wireless system, confirm 100% if its Cat5 or Cat5E on the cables. Because what I would recommend would change depending on the cable type in place.

Thanks for all that. Yes, sure its Cat 5. It's in the small print of the brochure for the estate, Ill post a few pics of the cabling when home.

jamesd

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Thanks for all that. Yes, sure its Cat 5. It's in the small print of the brochure for the estate, Ill post a few pics of the cabling when home.

It will surely be cat5e.

Cuddlesworth

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Thanks for all that. Yes, sure its Cat 5. It's in the small print of the brochure for the estate, Ill post a few pics of the cabling when home.

Check the cables, down the side will be inked writing. It will list the cable type.

degsie

You'd be amazed at what cowboy installers use. I've seen non twisted wires installed as 'cat5'.

Conar

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Thanks for all that. Yes, sure its Cat 5. It's in the small print of the brochure for the estate, Ill post a few pics of the cabling when home.

Don't believe what's written. Lots of people think Cat5 is all network cabling and the term has just followed through.

My house has cat6 even though they kept referring to it as Cat5. You may be able to read cable info on the side of the cable where it all comes out under the stairs.
Then you'll need a patch panel to terminate all the cables.
You don't need a managed switch, just an unmanaged switch and your broadband providers router will handle the IP/Routing/Modem side of things.

For example, in my house siro (fibre to the home and not efibre which is copper) comes through the sitting room wall into an ONT which converts fibre to ethernet.
Ethernet cable into cat6 point which comes out at my network cabinet.
That point in the patch panel is connected to the wan port in my router which now has an active internet connection.
Router LAN port to unmanaged switch.
All other patch ports into unmanaged switch.

This is a fairly standard setup for a house.
I have the WiFi access point elsewhere for better coverage.

Cat5e will give you gigabit too.
A word of warning though, my builder was very good but I snagged the network with a cable tester and found quite a few pairs (4 pairs of copper in cat6) offline. Most only needed to be reterminated but one was nicked by a nail and was replaced.
Just because you get an active network connection doesn't mean the cabling is perfect.

Cuddlesworth

Conar wrote: »

Don't believe what's written. Lots of people think Cat5 is all network cabling and the term has just followed through.

Exactly. And if you ring up a wholesalers in Ireland and ask for Cat5 cable, they will hand you a roll of Cat5e.

Johnboy1951

degsie wrote: »

You'd be amazed at what cowboy installers use. I've seen non twisted wires installed as 'cat5'.

Yes, but unless they had some very old cable they salvaged, they would need to look for Cat5 specifically or be supplied with Cat5e by default.

It would seem prudent to check the writing on the cable used.

Higgins5473

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes, but unless they had some very old cable they salvaged, they would need to look for Cat5 specifically or be supplied with Cat5e by default.

It would seem prudent to check the writing on the cable used.

I’m assuming developers and builders have mountains of left over materials, bricks and cement don’t exactly become obsolete but tech does very quickly. They must’ve just had a lot of it leftover in storage. Or some supplier stuck with a heap of it gathering dust and they got it on the cheap.

TheBoyConor

Installing Cat5 instead of Cat5e or 6 to save costs is a non-sense. The difference in cost between both cables is hardly even pennies to a contractor who is building a scheme of houses for a few worth many millions. The cost difference between fitting out the houses with cat 5 or cat 5e or 6 cable would be absolutely peanuts hardly even worth considering.

Most likely the reason for the Cat 5 is that was just an oversight in the specification, which believe it or not, are largely copy and paste jobs from previous projects.

However, try it and see how you get on. Realistically unless you are streaming multiple HD videos at once or dealing with very large amounts of data, Cat 6 simply isn't necessary in a domestic setting. Well and good if you want to future proof a new house, but retrofitting it is overkill and expensive unless it is really a necessity.

Anyway, how many hard wired LAN connections are you actually going to have in your house? Are you using a few desktop PCs or what? The vast majority of domestic devices these days are networked over WiFi, which means your Cat 5 LAN is redundant.


He has no idea what he is talking about. Fibre would not even be able to connect into lan ports on a device. He is talking out of his arse.

And no, the Cat 5e / 6 cable coming out of the fibre enabled modem does not reduce the speed. It is a LAN. The fibre is for the MAN, metropolitain area network and the larger telecoms trunks.

TheBoyConor

Do check the actual LAN cable physically tho. you must remember that the spec for these jobs is largely done up by architects and civil/structural engineers. They might not be up to speed or too concerned with things like Cat 5/6 LAN cable. It might just have been put in the spec as Cat 5.

Cat 5 cable is rare these days so you might indeed find that what was supplied to the M&E contractor was in fact Cat 5e or 6. Don't be relying on what is written in some estate agent brochure. An estate agent or marketing goon knows even less about computer networks.

To be full sure what is installed, take a look at some of the cable jacket where the free cable ends are where the patch panel or switch is to be installed. The cable jacket should have Cat5 /5e/6 stamped on it.

TheBoyConor

Also, that "engineer" is not an Engineer. An Engineer has at the very least an honours degree, or more likely a minimum of a masters degree nowadays followed by at least 4 years industry training for a professional qualification. That fella who called to your house is just a Sky cable jockey. And a lousy one one at that cos he seems clueless.

Sky calling their installers "engineers" is basically the same as suggesting that someone who did a first aid course is a Doctor.

The likes of Engineers Ireland and IstructE and the other professional bodies need to lobby the government to have the term engineer made a protected title.

listermint

Before you go out buying switches or patch panels or Cat5E.

Decide first what you want or 'need' it for.

I pulled Cat5E to every room in my house during renovation. So far im using 2 terminations. Ive yet to use the rest - not to say i wont. im not fully finished where i want to go with the house. But you may not need it.

And i have much of my rooms completed with smart switches for light controls etc. All done via adding neutrals to the lights and not requiring Cat Cable.


Make sure you know what you want to do, just because you can doesnt mean you need.

Conar

TheBoyConor wrote: »

However, try it and see how you get on. Realistically unless you are streaming multiple HD videos at once or dealing with very large amounts of data, Cat 6 simply isn't necessary in a domestic setting. Well and good if you want to future proof a new house, but retrofitting it is overkill and expensive unless it is really a necessity.

Anyway, how many hard wired LAN connections are you actually going to have in your house? Are you using a few desktop PCs or what? The vast majority of domestic devices these days are networked over WiFi, which means your Cat 5 LAN is redundant.

Just want to counter this argument, sorry if it seems picky.
Netflix 4k needs approx 20Mb/s so 2 people watching that can quickly saturate your WiFi regardless of how fast your internet connection is.
Maybe add a kid on a game console and someone watching YouTube (2 adults 2 kids) and your WiFi won't have a chance.
If you have the opportunity to have any of these devices wired then take it.
Your WiFi router might say it's AC1900 but unless you're beside it you'll get none of the benefit. Friends have a Vodafone router for SIRO and are in a 3 bed Bigalow that's 1100sq ft. Their router was on one side of the house and they lost WiFi totally 2 thirds of the way across the house.

Try to hardwire any of the following (and you'll leave the WiFi free for browsing and mobile streaming):
Smart TV, PC, Console, Sky box or anything that downloads TV/movies/games.

If it turns out that it is only Cat5 you're still much better off hardwiring them as they'll be able to each utilise 100Mb/s of bandwidth whereas they may be sharing barely that depending on thickness of walls and insulation for your WiFi signal.

Even if you go down the road of a mesh wi-fi (unless spending a fortune on triband with a dedicated backhaul) you'd be better to wire each access point on the mesh.

If you do have CAT5e or CAT6 then you can enjoy current, not future, benefits of game streaming like Google stadia released a couple of weeks ago.

Cuddlesworth

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Thanks for all that. Yes, sure its Cat 5. It's in the small print of the brochure for the estate, Ill post a few pics of the cabling when home.

Check it, I'm super curious if it went through so many levels of stupid somebody actually sourced and put in a 20+ year old cabling standard which would have had to have been more expensive to purchase then the newer cabling.

banjostring

Hi All - I’ve a question regarding the fibre install process that some of you may be able to answer and help me to pre address some potential future install problems.

So my current copper line comes into the House through an underground duct from the nearest pole. The copper then terminates in a little cabinet recessed into the gable on the house. From this cabinet it is connected to a CAT5E cable in a little black junction box and the CAT5E then runs into a press in my utility and into my my Eir phone point which feeds my current router and network switch. I’d like my fibre router to be located in this same location, but will CAT5E carry a fibre signal to my new router ? I don’t think they will be able to run the new fibre cable along the same hidden path as from memory it’s not in a conduit.

Sorry for dredging up stuff you guys have discussed, but I’m a bit lost on it tbh. Like someone said on the thread I would like to keep my LAN live and have as my many devices as possible connected to it as this should help maintain Wi-Fi speed for other devices !

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Phil

kooks87

Hi All, I have a similar issue whereby Sky wouldn't run the new siro connection into the location where the LAN switch is. They said it had to come in from the electrical meter box and had to drill into the wall. That was fine, so now the router is in the sitting room, but I have a cat5 terminal beside it which connects up to the LAN switch. Can I connect from this siro box up to the LAN switch and move the router up there? Also..there seems to be an issue with my switch.. these lights keep flashing when I plug it in and I hear a clicking noise. It hasn't been used in a while, this network was installed before I moved in..but it did work the last time I used it a couple of years ago.. any help is appreciated, cheers!

Screenshot_20220921-205756_Photos.jpg

It's a Dynamode SW160010-R

kooks87

This is the photo, I'm guessing the box is goosed..

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119648256#Comment_119648256

I think this is possible. I had the same issue. But I managed to over come it. I passed the fibre through fibre glass wall of the ESB box through the cavity of the wall of the house to a Virgin telecom box (very tricky but worth it) where connected to a house cat5e that went to the under the stairs. I used Power over internet injector and splitter to feed 12v through the cat 5e to power the Siro ONT. I can post pics if it is helpful. The Actavo installer didnt really know what I was doing at all but he was ok with it.

kooks87

Thanks a million Yellow_Fern! That's great that you were able to find a fix. I'm not sure if I fully understand, pictures might help if you don't mind sharing them!

So if I use a power over internet injector & splitter, then the Siro ONT doesn't need to be plugged into a wall socket for power? I'm fairly in over my head here..i might need to get a network engineer sort it out for me! Cheers!