Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

AndrewJRenko

lawred2 wrote: »

Was that cyclist not undertaking traffic on a roundabout?

I see two lanes and a cyclist heading up the middle of two cars on a roundabout. Recipe for getting himself/herself cleaned out.

Two stationary cars on a roundabout, for the record. If you're suggesting that cyclists need to queue behind all the cars with the four empty seats each, that's going to be a tough sell.

lawred2 wrote: »

Did I say anything about a law? But you're not going to be the most visible road user coming from behind and between vehicles on a roundabout.

You'll be visible if you have two front lights (one solid, one flashing) and a hi-vis jacket to any driver who actually looks, rather than assuming that there will never be any cyclist or motorbike or basically any road user not in a car/van/truck.

lawred2 wrote: »

Idiots pull out on to junction boxes every minute of the day. Every road user has to deal with it.

That's pretty much the whole point of the video - to show the idiot pulling out onto a roundabout without checking for traffic.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Would she have done the same if it was another car?

In this case, I suspect that the driver made the flawed assumption that, because she could see stationary traffic, there couldn't possibly be any other traffic moving in her vicinity. It's not unusual to see pedestrians making the same mistake - that because there is a a line of stopped traffic, they assume it is safe to step out without checking for cyclists or motorcyclists.

Seth Brundle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's pretty much the whole point of the video - to show the idiot pulling out onto a roundabout without checking for traffic.

In this case, I suspect that the driver made the flawed assumption that, because she could see stationary traffic, there couldn't possibly be any other traffic moving in her vicinity. It's not unusual to see pedestrians making the same mistake - that because there is a a line of stopped traffic, they assume it is safe to step out without checking for cyclists or motorcyclists.

I think the video also shows another issue on our roads - far too many drivers deliberately drive onto the yellow hatched box with no hope of getting through the junction and therefore need to stop. I didn't bother wasting time counting the number of them in the above video but there was a good few.

downtheroad

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I think the video also shows another issue on our roads - far too many drivers deliberately drive onto the yellow hatched box with no hope of getting through the junction and therefore need to stop. I didn't bother wasting time counting the number of them in the above video but there was a good few.

Yellow boxes are ignored even worse than red lights in this country. It's a waste of paint at this stage.

Effects

Came around the corner on Stephen's Green to find this guy reversing, in the bike lane, in the section where the wands are. I came to a stop but he just kept reversing until I banged on his window. He wasn't very happy being asked to move on from blocking the lane.

AndrewJRenko

Effects wrote: »

Came around the corner on Stephen's Green to find this guy reversing, in the bike lane, in the section where the wands are. I came to a stop but he just kept reversing until I banged on his window. He wasn't very happy being asked to move on from blocking the lane.

School pick-up time?

Seth Brundle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

School pick-up time?

Still doesn't excuse reversing somewhat blindly

kenmm

Effects wrote: »

Came around the corner on Stephen's Green to find this guy reversing, in the bike lane, in the section where the wands are. I came to a stop but he just kept reversing until I banged on his window. He wasn't very happy being asked to move on from blocking the lane.

Looks like the road was clear tho - wouldn't you just overtake?

Getting annoyed to the point of banging on someones window isnt going to help you or the driver. You won't suddenly teach someone awareness. Better to practice cycling techniques that will keep you safe and cause less stress all round.


*edit - the guy is clearly an idiot, if I am right, that just at the pinch point where the bollards end, where the cycle lane merges with the driving lanes?

kenmm

Plus - you didn't just 'ask him to move', you banged on his window.

This is how a lot of situations escalate. Idiot does something idiotic. Someone decided to 'ask them' by banging on windows or worse (being somewhat annoyed themselves, it comes across aggressive) before you know it the original idiot is chasing after a cyclist in the car or doing a punishment pass on a bus etc.

I am not saying I am perfect and don't get annoyed or have never thumped a car - but it rarely does anything except act as an temporary outlet for frustration, and more often than not it leads to more aggro on the roads. This isn't victim blaming either. The original offender here (as with most of these incidents) is wrong.

Maximising safety is what its all about!

John Hutton

kenmm wrote: »

Plus - you didn't just 'ask him to move', you banged on his window.

This is how a lot of situations escalate. Idiot does something idiotic. Someone decided to 'ask them' by banging on windows or worse (being somewhat annoyed themselves, it comes across aggressive) before you know it the original idiot is chasing after a cyclist in the car or doing a punishment pass on a bus etc.

I am not saying I am perfect and don't get annoyed or have never thumped a car - but it rarely does anything except act as an temporary outlet for frustration, and more often than not it leads to more aggro on the roads. This isn't victim blaming either. The original offender here (as with most of these incidents) is wrong.

Maximising safety is what its all about!

So he should have sat there and let him reverse on top of him? He had to have got pretty close for OP to be able to reach the window!

Utter Consternation

John Hutton wrote: »

So he should have sat there and let him reverse on top of him? He had to have got pretty close for OP to be able to reach the window!

Kenm the Zenm Master. Practicing mindfulness on the rothar when some gobsh1te is about to squash him up against the wall because they're too busy watching youtube in their car.

:p:p

Effects

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

School pick-up time?

It was about 3pm. Guy was in his 70s I'd say. When he pulled on he found a parking spot 100m away.

kenmm

John Hutton wrote: »

So he should have sat there and let him reverse on top of him? He had to have got pretty close for OP to be able to reach the window!

Or just go round him - whats the point in getting all bangy window about a nob end. The op came round the corner, *stopped, waited* until the idiot reversed or came closer to the car and started banging the window.

Alternatively he could be up at the baggot st end no worries, while idiot fu(k head is still meandering all over the place!

kenmm

Utter Consternation wrote: »

Kenm the Zenm Master. Practicing mindfulness on the rothar when some gobsh1te is about to squash him up against the wall because they're too busy watching youtube in their car.

:p:p

But you know what I mean, right? - I'm not trying to be a prick about it - I've banged many a bonnet (oh er!), roared at w@nkers all over the place - I'd say a fair chunk of those cases were me just wanting to give out and actually nothing that bad happened (similar to what I understand above - hopefully the OP wasn't actually in danger or hurt in any way) other than an idiot being in an idiot!

kenmm

Effects wrote: »

It was about 3pm. Guy was in his 70s I'd say. When he pulled on he found a parking spot 100m away.

Fair chance he shouldn't be driving - if he is unable to differentiate a cycle lane from parking spaces..

Effects

kenmm wrote: »

Looks like the road was clear tho - wouldn't you just overtake?

Why should I have to move into the road to facilitate someone wanting to park on a bike lane?

Getting annoyed to the point of banging on someones window isnt going to help you or the driver.

I stopped in the bike lane. He continued reversing. Banging on his window stopped him reversing into me, so I'd consider that helping me.

if I am right, that just at the pinch point where the bollards end, where the cycle lane merges with the driving lanes?

His car was inside the bollards.

Plus - you didn't just 'ask him to move', you banged on his window.

The bang on the window was to stop him reversing into me.
When he opened his window I told him he was blocking the lane and to move on.


Maybe you're right though. Maybe cars should be allowed to park in bike lanes where ever they want.

kenmm

Effects wrote: »

Maybe you're right though. Maybe cars should be allowed to park in bike lanes where ever they want.

Don't be smart - you know thats not the point I am making.

You essentially roared at an old man who made a mistake. You came on a forum to back up your point. I am suggesting an alternative that would have saved aggro and ensured you were safe (from what I can tell you weren't really in any danger, just annoyed, possibly because you had just cycled through a city full of arsehole behaviour and this guy was the icing on the cake - I dunno).

This attitude is what feeds into what is becoming a toxic situation in Dublin. Cars vs bikes, us vs them etc etc.


I hope you try and listen to what I am saying rather than take offense.

AndrewJRenko

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Still doesn't excuse reversing somewhat blindly

Fully agree - wasn't trying to excuse anything - just trying to understand the background.

Effects wrote: »

It was about 3pm. Guy was in his 70s I'd say. When he pulled on he found a parking spot 100m away.

So probably a grandad on school collection duty.

kenmm wrote: »

Or just go round him - whats the point in getting all bangy window about a nob end. The op came round the corner, *stopped, waited* until the idiot reversed or came closer to the car and started banging the window.

Alternatively he could be up at the baggot st end no worries, while idiot fu(k head is still meandering all over the place!

The point in getting all bangy window is that now, Grandad is less likely to park in the bike lane the next time he does a school pick up.

kenmm wrote: »

Don't be smart - you know thats not the point I am making.

You essentially roared at an old man who made a mistake. You came on a forum to back up your point. I am suggesting an alternative that would have saved aggro and ensured you were safe (from what I can tell you weren't really in any danger, just annoyed, possibly because you had just cycled through a city full of arsehole behaviour and this guy was the icing on the cake - I dunno).

This attitude is what feeds into what is becoming a toxic situation in Dublin. Cars vs bikes, us vs them etc etc.


I hope you try and listen to what I am saying rather than take offense.

What feeds into a toxic situation in Dublin is drivers who think traffic laws don't apply to them when they 'need' to stop at a shop or stop to collect a child or stop for any reason really. By taking assertive action, he reduced the chances of this happening again - that is a good thing.

kenmm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What feeds into a toxic situation in Dublin is drivers who think traffic laws don't apply to them when they 'need' to stop at a shop or stop to collect a child or stop for any reason really. By taking assertive action, he reduced the chances of this happening again - that is a good thing.

I disagree completely, all road users need to take collective responsibility for the safety of each other.

People on the cycling forum homogenising and depersonalising drivers of cars and seeing them as one group is of as much use as car drivers thinking all cyclists are RLJ pricks.

'taking assertive action'
You really think this guy who tried to park in the bike lane was taught something by knocking his window?
Or is it possible that this behaviour has just moved him into the group that all cyclists are lycra clad ***** that do whatever they want?

Effects

kenmm wrote: »

Don't be smart - you know thats not the point I am making.

You essentially roared at an old man who made a mistake.

It is the point you are making. You're excusing bad driving, and saying nothing should be done about it.

And I didn't roar at anyone, that part is what you imagine happened.
Roaring at people gets you nowhere. Being calm and assertive works better most of the time.

Salary Negotiator

If cyclists were empowered to call out poor driver behaviour (by Gardai actually listening to and following up on complaints) then the roads would be a much more enjoyable and safer place to cycle.

kenmm

You have all gotten a whole backstory about this grandad stopping to collect kids etc being a selfish fu(k- he may just be a confused old duffer that didn't know what the fu(k was going on - got his licence in the days when Ireland gave them out for free. Who knows and more importantly what difference does it make? You won't teach anyone on the site of the road.

Actually I would go further to say its there is a collective detrimental effect as you are making this behaviour expected and normalised, which means that when there is real danger and a thump or a roar is required, then it is more likely to be ignored. Why - because its just another d!ck on a bike (when actually its someone about to be properly squeezed).


Think about how acceptable its become for cars to jump red lights in the last 10 years - now every junction will have multiple cars sailing through on solid reds. I don't know if there is some psychological term or something, but to me its the same - group behaviour, bit by bit, leading to a worsening of standards.

kenmm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

If cyclists were empowered to call out poor driver behaviour (by Gardai actually listening to and following up on complaints) then the roads would be a much more enjoyable and safer place to cycle.

yes - for sure - a more proactive approach by the authorities in general would stop a lot of crappy behaviour and lead to improved commutes for everyone. I believe firmly that if
everyone had a bit more cop on, the roads would be much more pleasant and stress free.

But unfortunately our police are only there to meet targets and monetise. General safety and enjoyment arent under the current remit.

Salary Negotiator

kenmm wrote: »

You have all gotten a whole backstory about this grandad stopping to collect kids etc being a selfish fu(k- he may just be a confused old duffer that didn't know what the fu(k was going on - got his licence in the days when Ireland gave them out for free. Who knows and more importantly what difference does it make? You won't teach anyone on the site of the road.

Actually I would go further to say its there is a collective detrimental effect as you are making this behaviour expected and normalised, which means that when there is real danger and a thump or a roar is required, then it is more likely to be ignored. Why - because its just another d!ck on a bike (when actually its someone about to be properly squeezed).


Think about how acceptable its become for cars to jump red lights in the last 10 years - now every junction will have multiple cars sailing through on solid reds. I don't know if there is some psychological term or something, but to me its the same - group behaviour, bit by bit, leading to a worsening of standards.

Do you now think though that the reason, to use your example, red light jumping is so prevalent is precisely because people have been silent about it whereas if people were more vocal (in conjunction with actual police presence and intervention) it wouldn't be as bad as it is.

You even say that group behaviour can lead to worsening of standards, there's no reason the opposite can't be true.

Group behaviour, in this case cyclists being more assertive and frequent in calling out ****ty driver behaviour, can lead to an increase in standards.

magicbastarder

if i see someone parked in a cycle lane, or having done something stupid, yes, i would cycle around them and be on my way.
however, if i see someone who is actively committing that act of stupidity, i'm much more likely to engage with them.

kenmm

Effects wrote: »

It is the point you are making. You're excusing bad driving, and saying nothing should be done about it.

And I didn't roar at anyone, that part is what you imagine happened.
Roaring at people gets you nowhere. Being calm and assertive works better most of the time.

Fair enough, I am generalising about the shouty bit.

I am not excusing bad driving or saying nothing should be done. I am saying that you didnt have to do anything and what you did was probably ineffective anyway, possibly to the point that if we all acted this way it would lead to a much more stressful environment.

Being calm and assertive fair enough - but are you sure that it was taken this way? Can you be sure that every time you act 'assertively' that it will be? Look at how many times taking primary, for example, (a fair and adssertive action) leads to punishment passes often, (again generalising) by "professional" drivers.

kenmm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Do you now think though that the reason, to use your example, red light jumping is so prevalent is precisely because people have been silent about it whereas if people were more vocal (in conjunction with actual police presence and intervention) it wouldn't be as bad as it is.

You even say that group behaviour can lead to worsening of standards, there's no reason the opposite can't be true.

Group behaviour, in this case cyclists being more assertive and frequent in calling out ****ty driver behaviour, can lead to an increase in standards.

Tough call tbh - because a lot of the time, taking the law into ones own hands, often offends people (especially the stupid). If hurts someones ego and therefore they are more likely to retaliate in a negative way. If I had the money I'd go back and study this!

The people with actual authority should for sure be taking ownership of this. But due to years of cuts there is not a chance. Unless a lot more people start getting killed, in which case there will be a reactionary response.

Kander

No dangerous over take or close pass. Just someone doing something stupid and being lucky having good breaks in the wet.

https://streamable.com/bsode

Chips Lovell

Usually, if someone is creating an obstruction through bad driving/rule breaking I'll just go around them. Stopping to have a barney rarely improves the situation and you're just creating a hazard because the two of you are focused on arguing with one and other rather than on what's going on around you.

Road users rarely react well to be admonished by other road users. In most cases, people get thick and defensive. If the goal is to get them to reflect on their behaviour, then nine times out of ten, you're probably not going to achieve it.

Effects

kenmm wrote: »

I disagree completely, all road users need to take collective responsibility for the safety of each other.

Except drivers are rarely in any physical danger from bad cycling.
The opposite applies when it's bad driving and a cyclist.
The safety issue doesn't equate.

You really think this guy who tried to park in the bike lane was taught something by knocking his window?

Do you really think the situation will get better by just allowing people to block cycle lanes due to laziness?
He's forcing cyclists to move from a protected cycle lane, through the wands, into a busy car lane, on a corner where people generally speed in cars.
That might be fine for you or me, but maybe not for more vulnerable or inexperienced cyclists. It's the kind of thing that would put off a parent bringing their child on a bike, who will end up just driving instead.

Or is it possible that this behaviour has just moved him into the group that all cyclists are lycra clad ***** that do whatever they want?

If he can't see that he's better off parking in parking space 100m away, rather than manoeuvring into blocking a cycle lane then perhaps he shouldn't be on the road at all.

Effects

kenmm wrote: »

I am saying that you didnt have to do anything and what you did was probably ineffective anyway.

You could be right there.

Being calm and assertive fair enough - but are you sure that it was taken this way?

Doubtful it was taken this way, as I passed when he was pulling into the proper parking spot and he shouted expletives at me. I just smiled at him.