30kmh over speed limit, court prosecution and €2000 fine..(Shane Ross)

drunkmonkey

Transport Minister Shane Ross wants to introduce new laws allowing penalty points and fines to be applied based on how far above the speed limit a motorist is caught travelling.

Drivers who exceed the speed limit by more than 30kmh will face a court prosecution and a €2,000 fine.

The Irish Independent understands a memo to be brought to Cabinet states Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan and the Garda Commissioner are in favour of the changes.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-prepares-for-allout-war-as-rural-ministers-plot-to-derail-ross-plan-38722583.html

This Dutch gold drinking luas outside his door gombeen needs to go now, he's pushing us more towards 1984 everytime he opens his mouth.

vandriver

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Transport Minister Shane Ross wants to introduce new laws allowing penalty points and fines to be applied based on how far above the speed limit a motorist is caught travelling.

Drivers who exceed the speed limit by more than 30kmh will face a court prosecution and a €2,000 fine.

The Irish Independent understands a memo to be brought to Cabinet states Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan and the Garda Commissioner are in favour of the changes.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-prepares-for-allout-war-as-rural-ministers-plot-to-derail-ross-plan-38722583.html

This Dutch gold drinking luas outside his door gombeen needs to go now, he's pushing us more towards 1984 everytime he opens his mouth.

Just to be clear,do you think it is ok or not to drive past a school at 61 kmh?(Assuming the school is in a 30 km zone)

Mooooo

vandriver wrote: »

Just to be clear,do you think it is ok or not to drive past a school at 61 kmh?(Assuming the school is in a 30 km zone)

I don't think anyone would argue that, it's on motorways people would most likely have issues with it.

ThunbergsAreGo

Think Ross is a moron, seems a fair law though

drunkmonkey

vandriver wrote: »

Just to be clear,do you think it is ok or not to drive past a school at 61 kmh?(Assuming the school is in a 30 km zone)

Do you think it's ok for your children to be playing on the road outside a school. Do you think teachers should be fined €2000 when it happens?

Tzardine

I have no issue with this what so ever.

150 kmh is way over the speed limit on a motorway, and not a speed that it is easy to creep up to without knowing.

The difference in forces between a 120 and 150 kmh crash are also huge.

I think what is proposed is quite fair.

Damien360

I was under the impression that the points system was supposed to free up the courts. If they are going to apply €2000 fines, every single person will be going in to court to argue.

Plenty of countries have graduated speeding fines. Higher fines for speeding in lower speed limit zones and then apply a second tier for amount over. So a 60 in a 30 would cost a fortune but 130 in a 100 wouldn’t be as big a fine. But, it is done instead of points, not additional to them. I got a fine for speeding in France or Belgium (can’t remember) and this is what was applied.

Seth Brundle

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do you think it's ok for your children to be playing on the road outside a school. Do you think teachers should be fined €2000 when it happens?

What about kids crossing the road or kids cycling home?

LillySV

Where does Ross stop..... he is going to have a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens left with criminal convictions yet..... he keeps increasing the fines and the sentences on motorists..... yet if your a rapist, a thug, a thief or a murderer in this country , your sanction/sentence is getting less every year... and free legal aid for them as many times as they want it!

There’s many wide open roads in this country that have ridiculous low speed limits such as 30km/h when it should actually be 80/km/h. And to think someone could be brought to court and left with a conviction because they rightly break the stupid speed limit on such roads is ridicilulous

drunkmonkey

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What about kids crossing the road or kids cycling home?

What about them, I rather they grow up in a world where there not afraid to piss crooked. Dangerous driving is dangerous driving, 30kmh over some notional limit is not dangerous driving.

Seth Brundle

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What about them, I rather they grow up in a world where there not afraid to piss crooked. Dangerous driving is dangerous driving, 30kmh over some notional limit is not dangerous driving.

With my drivers cap on, I might agree. With my cycling or walking hat on I would definitely disagree with you!

un5byh7sqpd2x0

LillySV wrote: »

There’s many wide open roads in this country that have ridiculous low speed limits such as 30km/h when it should actually be 80/km/h. And to think someone could be brought to court and left with a conviction because they rightly break the stupid speed limit on such roads is ridicilulous

The only 30km/h limits in this country are outside schools

Seth Brundle

Meilani Sweet Neckline wrote: »

The only 30km/h limits in this country are outside schools

Dublin city centre.
My housing estate.

TrailerBob

I see 2 things any time this comes up here.

1: some people just want carte blanche to decide for themselves what the speed should be at any given time and law bedamned.. (I'm no saint by the way)

2: a mismatch in a lot of places between speed limit and road construction. Eg. My road has grass growing up the middle and is 8 feet wide.. 80km/h limit. (This is actually the case) Etc..

Also Shane Ross is not a man of the people..

Tzardine

30 limits are there for a good reason. They are in high pedestrian areas.

A crash at 60 has four times the force of a crash at 30 and is almost certainly a fatality in a pedestrian impact.

drunkmonkey

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Dublin city centre.

There's the problem. Bring in the law for country Dublin as they have the least to lose and welcome it the most.

Seth Brundle

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There's the problem. Bring in the law for country Dublin as they have the least to lose and welcome it the most.

There are many 30kmh and 40kmh zones.
Can you name one where it should be ok to travel more than 30kmh above the speed limit?

redcup342

It would make a lot more sense having a graduated system that differentiates between City and Motorway.

redcup342

redcup342 wrote: »

It would make a lot more sense having a graduated system that differentiates between City and Motorway.

there is.

the speed limits are about 90km/h higher on a motorway.

thats pretty graduated.

ianobrien

I think the flat figure of 30kph over the limit is rather stupid. It doesn't take into account the magnitude of the speed expressed in relation to the speed limit. The percentage over the limit with the proposals above are
30kph =100%
50kph=60%
80kph=38%
100kph=30%
120kph=25%

I think that there should be a set percentage of the speed limit rather than the blanket Xkph over. I also think that the focus on speeding is having a massive negative effect on the standard of driving in this country. As long as you are not speeding, you can generally get away with anything.

redcup342

Deleted User wrote: »

there is.

the speed limits are about 90km/h higher on a motorway.

thats pretty graduated.

I meant the fine should be graduated.

https://boetes.nl/boete-te-hard-rijden

Different set fines for In an Urban Area/Outside/Motorway and if you are driving in Roadworks.

A blanket 80 euro fine is not really fair.

Bannasidhe

LillySV wrote: »

..... he is going to have a lot of otherwise law abiding citizens left with criminal convictions yet..... he keeps increasing the fines and the sentences on motorists.....

'otherwise law abiding' but just breaking this one little law they don't like kind of citizens?

Why would anyone need to go 60 in a 30 mile zone?
Or 150 on the motorway?

It's really quite simple. Stay under the speed limits = no fines and/or penalty points.

average_runner

Mooooo wrote: »

I don't think anyone would argue that, it's on motorways people would most likely have issues with it.

Why would you be driving at 150 on the motorway? That is just careless.

average_runner

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do you think it's ok for your children to be playing on the road outside a school. Do you think teachers should be fined €2000 when it happens?

Why are teachers mentioned here? Do they drive that fast?

average_runner

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What about them, I rather they grow up in a world where there not afraid to piss crooked. Dangerous driving is dangerous driving, 30kmh over some notional limit is not dangerous driving.

30k over a 30k speed limit can be the difference between a kid living and a kid dying.

beansys

I have no problem with high fines for above 30 over the limit but i do have a problem with below 10 kmh over the limit. There should be a warning letter before any fines are issued for those as they are little infringements. Over 10 to 20 kmh there should be a instant fine of 80 euros and then go wild on over 30.

magicbastarder

i see no issue with a €2000 fine for 30km/h+ over the limit; if you're that incapable of sticking to a speed limit, you're clearly not a fit driver.
it's not difficult to stick to the limit. if you say it is, you're clearly impulsive and unable to control yourself and i worry about the thought of you being in control of a 1.5ton vehicle at 100km/h.

Seth Brundle

beansys wrote: »

I have no problem with high fines for above 30 over the limit but i do have a problem with below 10 kmh over the limit. There should be a warning letter before any fines are issued for those as they are little infringements. Over 10 to 20 kmh there should be a instant fine of 80 euros and then go wild on over 30.

The more complex the system is then the more difficult it is to enforce. People would be appealing because they thought they were 9km/h over the limit rather than 10km/h etc.

LillySV

Seth Brundle wrote: »

There are many 30kmh and 40kmh zones.
Can you name one where it should be ok to travel more than 30kmh above the speed limit?

I’ll give ya one, there’s a 60km limit on a dual carriage way on outskirts of Galway... no houses or kids or schools, everyone including the Garda cars go around 100kmh on it as speed limit makes no sense....and then as a poster said earlier... there’s roads in the country with grass in it that are barely wide enough for one car that have 80kmh speeds.... speed limits in areas aren’t always right. Anyways bigger problem these days is people not following laws such as breaking red lights, talking on phones, driving across or pulling out on road in front of cars...

An even bigger problem lately , cyclists breaking red lights, cutting in and out of traffic in a dangerous manner to themselves and others, mounting footpaths and putting pedestrians at risk.... any penalties or fines for this carry on?

magicbastarder

LillySV wrote: »

An even bigger problem lately , cyclists breaking red lights, cutting in and out of traffic in a dangerous manner to themselves and others, mounting footpaths and putting pedestrians at risk.... any penalties or fines for this carry on?

yes, cyclists are subject to fixed charge fines.

Seth Brundle

LillySV wrote: »

An even bigger problem lately , cyclists breaking red lights, cutting in and out of traffic in a dangerous manner to themselves and others, mounting footpaths and putting pedestrians at risk.... any penalties or fines for this carry on?

Oh Christ, here we go again :rolleyes:
Let's nip this nonsense in the bud.
Road users of all types break the laws. However, it appears to only be drivers that kill about two to three people every week.
Anyhjow, we're discussing proposed penalties for drivers who exceed speed limits by 30kmh not cyclists on footpaths.

magicbastarder

from:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/speed_is_a_central_issue_in_road_safety/speed_and_the_injury_risk_for_different_speed_levels_en

this is why speed limits are important.
between 40km/h and 60km/h, the chance of a pedestrian fatality jumps from about 15% to about 75%.

beansys

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The more complex the system is then the more difficult it is to enforce. People would be appealing because they thought they were 9km/h over the limit rather than 10km/h etc.

Then leave as it is, it's simple enough your point is so invalid.. Also to add and be free to correct me as i only invested 2 minutes of google time in this Ireland is on the low in almost all car crash charts when compared to the rest of the EU so why the need to change anything. This is just another money grab nothing more.

Seth Brundle

LillySV wrote: »

I’ll give ya one, there’s a 60km limit on a dual carriage way on outskirts of Galway... no houses or kids or schools, everyone including the Garda cars go around 100kmh on it as speed limit makes no sense....and then as a poster said earlier... there’s roads in the country with grass in it that are barely wide enough for one car that have 80kmh speeds.... speed limits in areas aren’t always right. Anyways bigger problem these days is people not following laws such as breaking red lights, talking on phones, driving across or pulling out on road in front of cars...

For absolute clarity, can you indicate where you're referring to?

Seth Brundle

beansys wrote: »

Then leave as it is, it's simple enough your point is so invalid.. Also to add and be free to correct me as i only invested 2 minutes of google time in this Ireland is on the low in almost all car crash charts when compared to the rest of the EU so why the need to change anything. This is just another money grab nothing more.

147 people died last year on the roads.
So far in 2019, 131 people have died.
At what point then should the number become unacceptable and we do something about it?

LuasSimon

Another tool to hit rural Ireland by Shane Ross and the South Dublin Fine Gael Party .
All part of the overall plan to force people out of rural Ireland .

magicbastarder

why, is it impossible to live in rural ireland without speeding?

anyway; it'll just be another law for the gardai to ignore.

Seth Brundle

LuasSimon wrote: »

Another tool to hit rural Ireland by Shane Ross and the South Dublin Fine Gael Party .
All part of the overall plan to force people out of rural Ireland .

How on earth is this forcing people out of rural Ireland?

drunkmonkey

magicbastarder wrote: »

i see no issue with a €2000 fine for 30km/h+ over the limit; if you're that incapable of sticking to a speed limit, you're clearly not a fit driver.
it's not difficult to stick to the limit. if you say it is, you're clearly impulsive and unable to control yourself and i worry about the thought of you being in control of a 1.5ton vehicle at 100km/h.

A lot of speed limits are wrong and take no account of conditions or time of day. We don't need speed limits just responsible driving. Plenty of cars can stop quicker than others and a lot now have tons of safety features to prevent accidents. It's a one glove fits all approach, the law doesn't apply to those making it or enforcing it and the penalties have a greater impact on people's way of lives the further you get from Leinster house.

Your worried about me in a 1.5ton vehicle, well you better get real scared as I'll be carrying half a ton of lithium with me the next time.

Seriously your a cyclist, you know what's wrong and where the money should be going to improve the roads for everybody. This isn't the solution or even part of making things safe. It's about big ticket revenue collection nothing more.

Achasanai

It's not hard to keep at the speed limit. If you're finding it difficult, maybe driving isn't for you.

LillySV wrote: »

An even bigger problem lately , cyclists breaking red lights, cutting in and out of traffic in a dangerous manner to themselves and others, mounting footpaths and putting pedestrians at risk.... any penalties or fines for this carry on?

Cyclists breaking those rules are hardly more dangerous than cars going 30kph above the speed limit. And that's to say nothing of the cars that break red lights/cutting in and out of traffic/mount footpaths.

magicbastarder

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Seriously your a cyclist, you know what's wrong and where the money should be going to improve the roads for everybody.

certainly not going to argue against you on this point, it's just the premise that some posters are arguing, that clamping down much more heavily on people doing 30km/h over the limit is somehow the beginnings of a fascist dictatorship (i may be exagerrating a little there), which i find bizarre.

not much different from the understanding that if you fleece a mars bar from the newsagent, you would expect a different punishment than if you were caught lifting boxes out of the delivery truck at the back.

magicbastarder

i guess my experience is that i used to drive for a living years ago; well, i used to be the chap with the replacement motherboard under his arm ringing your doorbell when your (well known computer brand) computer broke. was down as far as west cork and up as far as northwest donegal in my time.
this was back in the late 90s/early 2000s, so before a lot of the motorway network had been completed. anyway, to cut to the chase - i quickly learned that my journey time was far less dictated by how fast i went on the fast bits, than it was dictated by how slow i went on the slow bits. speeding saves you minutes, maybe, but other traffic costs you hours. much easier to stick to the limit; it's less tiring anyway.

kirving

magicbastarder wrote: »

i see no issue with a €2000 fine for 30km/h+ over the limit; if you're that incapable of sticking to a speed limit, you're clearly not a fit driver.

150km/h on an empty motorway is not a problem to most modern cars whatsoever. Against the law, yes, but not inherently dangerous.

150km/h on a wet motorway during rush hour obviously deserves a big fine.

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not difficult to stick to the limit. if you say it is, you're clearly impulsive and unable to control yourself and i worry about the thought of you being in control of a 1.5ton vehicle at 100km/h.

Should we ban drivers for doing 101km/h so? Clearly impulsive people who are unable to control themselves and are a total danger to society.

There are a dozen other things that should be looked at in addition to (but probably before speed, IMO) to make our roads safer. However they require Garda resources to enforce, which means more money, a shred of imagination and a bit of cohesion between government departments.

Like the below could be sorted by a single Excel sheet. Why hasn't it been done?

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/thousands-banned-drivers-could-still-20951040 wrote:

...just 13% disqualified in 2019 have surrendered licences

drunkmonkey

It feels like a ditactorship when you live outside Dublin with no alternative means of Transport besides a car, Ross's local link is a sick joke and not allowing people to have Uber is even more twisted.
If the guards were to enforce all the law all out warfare between the citzens and the state would erupt. The difference with here and dictatorships is they actually enforce the laws they make.

We have a jaywaking law to help prevent pedestrian accidents, how may people have been prosecuted since it came in? Very few I'd imagine. I see guards breaking it every day.

We already have a dangerous driving law
53.—(1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place at a speed or in a manner which, having regard to all the circumstances of the case (including the nature, condition and use of the place and the amount of traffic which then actually is or might reasonably be expected then

If enforced it covers all the reasons you think Ross's new laws should be brought in.

We don't need new laws.

dulpit

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It feels like a ditactorship when you live outside Dublin with no alternative means of Transport besides a car, Ross's local link is a sick joke and not allowing people to have Uber is even more twisted.
If the guards were to enforce all the law all out warfare between the citzens and the state would erupt. The difference with here and dictatorships is they actually enforce the laws they make.

I've seen quite a few people say this (and the previous drink driving law) are an attack on rural Ireland. Why is this? Is there something about living in the country that increases your ability to not crash or kill people at higher speeds? Or your ability to drive after alcohol? I don't understand it..

I fully appreciate that the rural transport links range from quite poor to non-existent, but that doesn't excuse speeding or drink driving, does it?

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

'otherwise law abiding' but just breaking this one little law they don't like kind of citizens?

Why would anyone need to go 60 in a 30 mile zone?
Or 150 on the motorway?

It's really quite simple. Stay under the speed limits = no fines and/or penalty points.

average_runner wrote: »

Why would you be driving at 150 on the motorway? That is just careless.

Because 120 is a stupidly low limit for a motorway. There are counties with inferior roads to us with higher or unlimited limits so they appear to think they are ok but we are stuck with ancient backwards limits devised when cars could barely achieve them. Modern cars can very safely travel well in excess of or crazy limits. People what to get places quickly ffs not crawl along.

I really hope these stupid idiotic proposals by an absolute clown don’t get in, it’s bad enough getting 3 points and a fine but these graduated limits are beyond a joke.

Salary Negotiator

Addyson Screeching Paycheck wrote: »

Because 120 is a stupidly low limit for a motorway. There are counties with inferior roads to us with higher or unlimited limits so they appear to they are ok but we are stuck with ancient backwards limits devised when cars could barely a achieve them. Modern cars can very saftely travel well in excess of or crazy limits. People what to get places quickly ffs not crawl along.

I really how these stupid idiotic proposal by an absolute clown don’t get in, it’s bad enough getting 3 points and a fine but these graduates limits are beyond a joke.

Were you driving while typing this?

drunkmonkey

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Like the below could be sorted by a single Excel sheet. Why hasn't it been done?

It seems simple but it shows just how incompetent the state is at basic tasks.
It's not just about taking their license off them you then need to make sure there not driving, it's a completely unenforceable law that makes things worse as all you end up with are uninsured drivers, a % of those drivers will also probably end up committing suicide or end up in mental health services, families will be broken. At the end of the day are the majority of those fines really helping to improve lives.

We need to move away from revenue generation and onto education.
Which is better a 5 day course on improving driving skills or a €2000 fine and a court appearance. See they don't care about road safety after all they care about fines and public service man hours.

Micky 32

Seth Brundle wrote: »

147 people died last year on the roads.
So far in 2019, 131 people have died.
At what point then should the number become unacceptable and we do something about it?

So you have the stats of the 131 people who died were actually breaking the speed limit before they died?

Didn’t Ross propose this last year and it got shot down?

kirving

dulpit wrote: »

I've seen quite a few people say this (and the previous drink driving law) are an attack on rural Ireland. Why is this? Is there something about living in the country that increases your ability to not crash or kill people at higher speeds? Or your ability to drive after alcohol? I don't understand it..

I fully appreciate that the rural transport links range from quite poor to non-existent, but that doesn't excuse speeding or drink driving, does it?

If you're from Dublin, then I think you probably don't understand it.

I'm from Dublin but moved across the country 6 years ago and didn't get it either. At home I didn't need a car at all, one of the best bus services in the country is literally a stone's throw from my front door. I could cycle anywhere I wanted in 30 minutes maximum, and I did so for 10 years.

Now I need a car to do the most basics of tasks (I also have a few bicycles). When you need to get in the car and commute for hours every week across roads with hopelessly inadequate limits (both too high and too low), to do pretty much anything, you'll realise that there's far more involved to getting to your destination safely that staring at the speedometer.

There's is a big difference between driving within the speed limit, and driving within the conditions.

Bannasidhe

Addyson Screeching Paycheck wrote: »

Because 120 is a stupidly low limit for a motorway. There are counties with inferior roads to us with higher or unlimited limits so they appear to think they are ok but we are stuck with ancient backwards limits devised when cars could barely achieve them. Modern cars can very safely travel well in excess of or crazy limits. People what to get places quickly ffs not crawl along.

I really hope these stupid idiotic proposal by an absolute clown don’t get in, it’s bad enough getting 3 points and a fine but these graduates limits are beyond a joke.

It doesn't matter what speeds cars are capable of or how quickly self important people want to get places.

The speed limits are the speed limits. Stick to them and there is no problem as no one will get points or fined.