Suicide rates

mr_fegelien

What do you think is causing an increase in suicide rates? Many articles show that suicide rates in the US and European countries are at their highest in 50 years. In particular among youths

Is it social media? Perhaps there's more pressure among everyone (in particular the youth) and facebook, instagram, twitter all highlight people who are much better than you (or more importantly the good parts of their life) leaving you feeling hopeless.

Gynoid

Lots of reasons. Ones that are not talked about much are the Acceptability of suicide as an option due to weakening of societal taboos or religious constraints, and the Lack of Meaning many struggle to find in a shallow materialistic civilisation.
Imitation is another reason - copycat suicides.

s7ryf3925pivug

Lack of support for people seeking or needing help before they reach crisis point.

s7ryf3925pivug

We don't deal well with feeling like we're doing badly. Suicide rates are low in countries where nobody has much and not much in the way of opportunity. In places like here people see their peers getting new jobs, new houses, whatever else. Humans don't process that well and it can lead to suicidality. (This is indicated by research, not just me suggesting the idea.) Social media no doubt exacerbates this because most people post about what is going well, and from a positive angle. Beauty filters are a fairly blatant form of what I'm getting at and these have become pretty much the norm.

The chan chan man

Social media giving people huge expectations. Real life being so expensive and so difficult. 2 parents having to work ridiculous hours just to keep a roof over head - for the 2 days a week you actually get to spend at home.

The system is a joke and some people can’t deal with it.

There are of course countless other reasons..

Gynoid

Declan Colossal Bicyclist wrote: »

We don't deal well with feeling like we're doing badly. Suicide rates are low in countries where nobody has much and not much in the way of opportunity. In places like here people see their peers getting new jobs, new houses, whatever else. Humans don't process that well and it can lead to suicidality. (This is indicated by research, not just me suggesting the idea.) Social media no doubt exacerbates this because most people post about what is going well, and from a positive angle. Beauty filters are a fairly blatant form of what I'm getting at and these have become pretty much the norm.

But it may not be the materialistic wealth or lack thereof that is the factor. Those countries also have stronger societal networks and familial structure, they are traditional in a way we now begin to abhor, and they have religious and cultural taboos, in fact in those ''poorer'' societies the person does not see themself as an individual more than first as a member of a whole. I noticed this especially in India. In richer places we are enculturated as individuals from our earliest days. The family, tribe, nation and tradition are also being radically undermined in richer places. I am not saying this as some kind of conservative rally call, lest anyone think so, but merely as an anthropological observation.

Mrs OBumble

Euthanasia legislation makes it more acceptable.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

It's a male issue, 8 out of 10 are men.

Social media, no job security, no housing security, changing roles for men etc take yer pick

The chan chan man

The chan chan man wrote: »

Social media giving people huge expectations. Real life being so expensive and so difficult. 2 parents having to work ridiculous hours just to keep a roof over head - for the 2 days a week you actually get to spend at home.

The system is a joke and some people can’t deal with it.

There are of course countless other reasons..

Real life has always been expensive and difficult, far more so than now when working 7 days a week was the norm. It's peoples expectations that have changed.

We live in the best time in human history.

Guy:Incognito

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Euthanasia legislation makes it more acceptable.

Why is switzerlands suicide rate lower than ours so?


Edit. From a quick google, ours appears to be higher than Belgium and The Netherlands , two other european countries with assisted suicide.

Mad_maxx

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you think is causing an increase in suicide rates? Many articles show that suicide rates in the US and European countries are at their highest in 50 years. In particular among youths

Is it social media? Perhaps there's more pressure among everyone (in particular the youth) and facebook, instagram, twitter all highlight people who are much better than you (or more importantly the good parts of their life) leaving you feeling hopeless.

the narative peddled that traditional male characteristics ( " toxic masculinity") contribute to high suicide rates is a load of cobblers, suicide rates have increased as the traditional male has become less common

I'm sceptical that talking about everything is all that great for one's health, something empowering about overcoming strife alone, easier to put something behind you if you're the only one knows about it

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the narative peddled that traditional male characteristics ( " toxic masculinity") contribute to high suicide rates is a load of cobblers, suicide rates have increased as the traditional male has become less common

I'm sceptical that talking about everything is all that great for one's health, something empowering about overcoming strife alone, easier to put something behind you if you're the only one knows about it

absolutely, keeping pain within is best, its also best to engage in additive activities such as drug and alcohol consumption, as that always works

KaneToad

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you think is causing an increase in suicide rates? Many articles show that suicide rates in the US and European countries are at their highest in 50 years. In particular among youths

The methodology of measuring of suicide rates has changed.

Guy:Incognito

KaneToad wrote: »

The methodology of measuring of suicide rates has changed.

Sure no one committed suicide in ireland up to fairly recently...........

Murt10

Apparently there are far fewer attempted suicides in America.

Reason - Unfortunately, Americans have much easier access to guns which are purpose built to take life. You don't get a 2nd chance.

banie01

KaneToad wrote: »

The methodology of measuring of suicide rates has changed.

In Ireland it's still incredibly flawed.

The onus remains that a preponderance of evidence regarding the deceased's state of mind and intent must be established before a verdict of suicide can be returned by a coroner.

There are numerous obvious suicides at each sitting of every coroner's court in the country that are recorded under verdicts of misadventure or similar.

The suicide rate as recorded, versus that experienced are vastly different IMO and the lower number does those in need of support no good.

biko

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Many articles show that suicide rates in the US and European countries are at their highest in 50 years. In particular among youths

Can you link to some of these sources?

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

absolutely, keeping pain within is best, its also best to engage in additive activities such as drug and alcohol consumption, as that always works

2 +2 = 5

s7ryf3925pivug

Men are more aggressive as a group and more likely to choose a violent means of killing themselves, which is also more effective. Women are more likely to try something like oral poison, which you will usually just vomit out. So I think the difference in male and female suicide rates doesn't reflect a difference in how men and women are feeling as much as people assume.

Raconteuse

Social media, decline in community network (including religion/church), financial instability, addiction.

BDI

Lack of good music for depressed people. It’s all Ed Sheeran and hozier.

We need a band like the cure for the youth of today. All we would get though is a group of lads in eyeliner approved by Coca Cola and Chevrolet. The music or the message won’t matter to them lads.

Or maybe better mental health treatment.

IAMAMORON

It is a practice that is as old as time itself. It is impossible to rationalise and is disrespectful to do so. The real victims are the families and loved ones left behind, alive and in agony.

Suicide does not have a " rate " . It is not solvable and will probably always exist. There is nothing that can be improved upon that is going to make a tangible difference to the amount of people who take their own lives. It is not and should not be a social conscience issue, it is essentially a very personal one carried out by anyone.

Stopping addiction or poverty or improving an economy will not solve the issue of suicide. The lowest levels of suicide on the planet are in developing countries, explain that one please.

corner of hells

Chocolate Orange1001 wrote: »

Rates of suicide in Ireland have been falling over the last 5 years I believe.

We don't have a high suicide rate and if anything rates have been falling for about 20 years.
There are certain groups at risk but theres been inroads into addressing it .
Theres support groups in existence now and a lot of training available free , delivered by the HSE open to everyone , Safetalk, ASIST and Storm.

eviltwin

There is very little support for anyone seriously considering suicide. I've lost a friend, family member and work colleague to suicide over the past 20 years. I think there was more help back then than there is now.

There is still a massive stigma to depression which makes it hard to get support from the people around you. Everyone has platitudes for someone who goes public but when it comes to actually doing something practical like sitting with that person, talking them through a rough patch etc very few actually step up to the plate

corner of hells

eviltwin wrote: »

There is very little support for anyone seriously considering suicide. I've lost a friend, family member and work colleague to suicide over the past 20 years. I think there was more help back then than there is now.

There is still a massive stigma to depression which makes it hard to get support from the people around you. Everyone has platitudes for someone who goes public but when it comes to actually doing something practical like sitting with that person, talking them through a rough patch etc very few actually step up to the plate

There is support , as an individual you can access training to support an individual at risk.
I do get what you're saying and unfortunately people do take their lives.

TomSweeney

Society doesn't give a **** - partly because it's a male issue and especially as it's a white male issue.

s7ryf3925pivug

TomSweeney wrote: »

Society doesn't give a **** - partly because it's a male issue and especially as it's a white male issue.

There should be "no thanks" button for posts you disagree with, but find too tedious to counter.

Jonybgud

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you think is causing an increase in suicide rates?

Are they increasing?

RhubarbCrumble

Jayda Round Sidebar wrote: »

It's a male issue, 8 out of 10 are men.

Social media, no job security, no housing security, changing roles for men etc take yer pick

It's sadly rising in females too. I live in Limerick and a terrifying number of young women have died in Limerick this year as a result of suicide, including a family member.

I believe Limerick has the highest suicide rate in Ireland. The Shannon has taken so many

s7ryf3925pivug

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

It's sadly rising in females too. I live in Limerick and a terrifying number of young women have died in Limerick this year as a result of suicide, including a family member.

I believe Limerick has the highest suicide rate in Ireland. The Shannon has taken so many

Yes. The Shannon has become a symbol. Making a suicide hotspot a symbol has been shown to lead to more suicides. The people who arrange things like "Shine a light on the River" have been told this. But they still do it because it gets popular approval.

Sorry to hear about your family member.

Church on Tuesday

It can be for any amount of reasons, most have already been listed.

Stress would also be a big factor, fear of failure etc.

You never really know what's going on in someones life at any given time; that's why it's important to check in with the people you love and care about.

Even just talking can help lessen the burden.

Church on Tuesday

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is a practice that is as old as time itself. It is impossible to rationalise and is disrespectful to do so. The real victims are the families and loved ones left behind, alive and in agony.

Suicide does not have a " rate " . It is not solvable and will probably always exist. There is nothing that can be improved upon that is going to make a tangible difference to the amount of people who take their own lives. It is not and should not be a social conscience issue, it is essentially a very personal one carried out by anyone.

Stopping addiction or poverty or improving an economy will not solve the issue of suicide. The lowest levels of suicide on the planet are in developing countries, explain that one please.

Everyone is a victim when it comes to suicide.

Raconteuse

I don't think there is a stigma attached to depression at all.

And I know the "white men are the most discriminated against" brigade are painful but they're not always wrong. White men often are expected just to suck it up.

s7ryf3925pivug

Raconteuse wrote: »

I don't think there is a stigma attached to depression at all.

And I know the "white men are the most discriminated against" brigade are painful but they're not always wrong. White men often are expected just to suck it up.

There's stigma around bipolar disorder though. Bipolar disorder places you at an extremely elevated risk of suicide. (4%-19% of people with it die by suicide.)

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Euthanasia legislation makes it more acceptable.

Just as well there’s nowhere in the world where euthanasia is legal. Assisted dying, on the other hand...

mr_fegelien

Raconteuse wrote: »

I don't think there is a stigma attached to depression at all.

And I know the "white men are the most discriminated against" brigade are painful but they're not always wrong. White men often are expected just to suck it up.

I think there is. People still don't believe it's a "legitimate illness". If you look at the case in the OP of a Belgian women requesting euthanasia, many said that they didn't think depression was real enough for it to be considered for assisted suicide compared to say dementia, cancer etc...

El_Duderino 09

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm sceptical that talking about everything is all that great for one's health, something empowering about overcoming strife alone, easier to put something behind you if you're the only one knows about it

Sure, I mean, the peoplewho know about it will say it makes sense to have services available for those who need it, when they need it.

If you want to bottle everything up and deal with it yourself, that's grand. But don't tell other people they would be better off not seeking help.

First support having services available, then wonder if you personally want to use it or not.

Wanderer78

Barack Oboma wrote:

The progressives won't like to hear this but increasing drug usage has a lot to do with it.

I'd class myself as a progressive, and would completely agree, shovelling a mountain of coke into yourself on a regular basis won't end well

bunderoon

1) Medication - Kids on meds that don't need to be. Big industry

2) Travel employment advancements -In the 50s - 80s: Females left to get jobs in urban areas. Men left behind on the land. No partner, no future.

3) Internet, technology & social media. Higher expectations, fake profiles, group think, bullying, Porn performances (not real life for most people) etc etc.

4) New wave of gender 'studies' that teach kids to be victims and that the system should (but fails to) protect them instead of standing up for themselves (Space spaces etc..) Kids thinking that they are different when they are not really. Leads them to feel marginalised and oppressed. Ironically, those feelings bind them together into a group where they are not marginalised or oppressed. Seemingly an endless cycle which infact will eat itself.

5) Surge of single parent families. Broken homes overwhelmingly lead to individuals to fail in life or not reach their true potential. Lack of education leads to poor paying jobs, poor diet, poor surroundings, crime, incarceration and then the inevitable..

6) The rich are getting richer. Recessions lead to suicide. As Blind Boy Boathouse said (before Tubs purposely cut him off and diverted the topic) - back years ago we knew where the enemy was... it was over there (England's direction). Now we don't know who the enemy is. So we have people either jumping onto planes to leave or jumping into rivers...

7) Technological advances/convergences - less and less jobs are available. Less educated cannot compete. This will be a big one going forward as AI and Robots will wipe out the vast majority of service based jobs. This will cut out all lower class and most of the middle who pay the taxes. Each country will riot and implode.


8) Keep watching I'm a celebrity..... Shur we'll be grand.

El_Duderino 09

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd class myself as a progressive, and would completely agree, shovelling a mountain of coke into yourself on a regular basis won't end well

Yeah, same here. Obviously loads of drugs are not good for mental health.

mr_fegelien

CPTM wrote: »

Do you think life was generally accepted to be a tough experience up until about 3 generations ago? Cold winters, less money, more kids, less job opportunities. No electricity or daily baths/showers. No sunshine holidays or things like this. Now suddenly young people are surrounded by warmth and opportunity and dreams and Disney up until they're a teenager where the realisation dawns on them that life is pretty crap, money or no money. Prince charming doesn't exist. They won't become a model or instagram influencer. They won't be a celebrity. They'll have the ability to get a lovely 9-5 job and a family home and be with a person who's probably grand but that's not as good as the dream they were sold. Of course they're down and depressed about it?

Or perhaps there's simply more human beings on planet earth so of course there's going to be more suicide rates. The population was 3.6 billion in the 60s.

Rodin

The whole rise in anxiety, depression etc is because children are not being prepared for life when young.

They are given awards for achieving nothing.
They need to be toughened up.
Too easy just to say" I can't do that because Im anxious/depressed"

People who coped with an awful lot worse decades ago didnt have anywhere near the rates of anxiety as now.

mr_fegelien

Rodin wrote: »

The whole rise in anxiety, depression etc is because children are not being prepared for life when young.

They are given awards for achieving nothing.
They need to be toughened up.
Too easy just to say" I can't do that because Im anxious/depressed"

People who coped with an awful lot worse decades ago didnt have anywhere near the rates of anxiety as now.

Wasn't alcohol abuse higher?

Mr_Muffin

Barack Oboma wrote: »

The progressives won't like to hear this but increasing drug usage has a lot to do with it.

Agreed. Cocaine usage especially.

Rodin

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Wasn't alcohol abuse higher?

Don't have figures for it.

But suicide rates in Ireland are actually DECREASING for both men and women

Sonics2k

Awful lot of ****e talk in this thread from people absolutely clueless about the situation, just looking to push their own psycho agendas.

Ash.J.Williams

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you think is causing an increase in suicide rates? Many articles show that suicide rates in the US and European countries are at their highest in 50 years. In particular among youths

Is it social media? Perhaps there's more pressure among everyone (in particular the youth) and facebook, instagram, twitter all highlight people who are much better than you (or more importantly the good parts of their life) leaving you feeling hopeless.

From my own experience it seems it’s a terminal illness like cancer, it can be treated with drugs but sometimes it’s not treated in time.

Rodin

Decreasing rates...
Courtesy of National Suicide Research Foundation. Based in UCC.

corner of hells

Rodin wrote: »

Decreasing rates...

Posters still wont believe you.

Mrs OBumble

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Or perhaps there's simply more human beings on planet earth so of course there's going to be more suicide rates. The population was 3.6 billion in the 60s.

Ahh, you might like to look up what "rate" means.

Fr Tod Umptious

bunderoon wrote: »

1) Medication - Kids on meds that don't need to be. Big industry

2) Travel employment advancements -In the 50s - 80s: Females left to get jobs in urban areas. Men left behind on the land. No partner, no future.

3) Internet, technology & social media. Higher expectations, fake profiles, group think, bullying, Porn performances (not real life for most people) etc etc.

4) New wave of gender 'studies' that teach kids to be victims and that the system should (but fails to) protect them instead of standing up for themselves (Space spaces etc..) Kids thinking that they are different when they are not really. Leads them to feel marginalised and oppressed. Ironically, those feelings bind them together into a group where they are not marginalised or oppressed. Seemingly an endless cycle which infact will eat itself.

5) Surge of single parent families. Broken homes overwhelmingly lead to individuals to fail in life or not reach their true potential. Lack of education leads to poor paying jobs, poor diet, poor surroundings, crime, incarceration and then the inevitable..

6) The rich are getting richer. Recessions lead to suicide. As Blind Boy Boathouse said (before Tubs purposely cut him off and diverted the topic) - back years ago we knew where the enemy was... it was over there (England's direction). Now we don't know who the enemy is. So we have people either jumping onto planes to leave or jumping into rivers...

7) Technological advances/convergences - less and less jobs are available. Less educated cannot compete. This will be a big one going forward as AI and Robots will wipe out the vast majority of service based jobs. This will cut out all lower class and most of the middle who pay the taxes. Each country will riot and implode.


8) Keep watching I'm a celebrity..... Shur we'll be grand.

I think the bullying online is a major problem.

With the likes of Twitter anyone can call anybody anywhere anything they like without any consequences.

Only today I read a piece on the BBC about a police chief who was in the media a lot during the Whaley Bridge evacuation who had to get off Twitter because of the amount abuse she was getting about her hairstyle, her looks etc.

On what sort of world do we live in where random people can hurl abuse in public at people they don't know for something as trivial as their hairstyle.

Think of how bad that is for someone who already may have low self-esteem.
It would drive them over the edge.