flying in asylum seekers

Firblog

Heard on newstalk today that a six year old boy from Zimbabwe arrived in dublin airport (on a plane) to join his mother who is resident in a direct provision facility seeking asylum.


Question: Should airlines be fined for bringing people to Ireland who have no visa / legal right to enter the country?

Pinch Flat

Firblog wrote: »

arrived in dublin airport (on a plane)

Well I’ll be damned

Firblog

Ye coulldn't be too specific...

Firblog

well you could.. obviously

Berserker5

Smart boy has to be said

Atlantic Dawn

There's no direct flights from Zimbabwe to Ireland, how did he get here?

Paddy Cow

Firblog wrote: »

Heard on newstalk today that a six year old boy from Zimbabwe arrived in dublin airport (on a plane) to join his mother who is resident in a direct provision facility seeking asylum.


Question: Should airlines be fined for bringing people to Ireland who have no visa / legal right to enter the country?

How else did you expect him to join her? Take his chances in a shipping container? It's a six year old ffs. Whether or not the mother has a legitimate claim will be decided later but I can't get outraged at a young child being reunited with his mother.

ILoveYourVibes

Well its better than them drowning at sea.

Montage of Feck

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well its better than them drowning at sea.

Not if your a cold hearted cynical bollocks. But anyway isn't Zimbabwe a landlocked country?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Firblog wrote: »

Question: Should airlines be fined for bringing people to Ireland who have no visa / legal right to enter the country?

They already are

Paddy Cow

Paddy Cow wrote: »

How else did you expect him to join her? Take his chances in a shipping container? It's a six year old ffs. Whether or not the mother has a legitimate claim will be decided later but I can't get outraged at a young child being reunited with his mother.

I'd expect him to not come over at all until her application was processed and approved. Will the father be joining them next, and perhaps her elderly grandparents who need the mothers care?

Having a child here will affect her application because of the inherent sympathy given to mothers and children. I'm not exactly outraged but I can't help thinking it's a rather calculated move to influence the decision.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

No prob with immigrants being taken in here but only when the government gets its ducks in a row with the crisis here first. It’s beyond barbaric that people are eating their dinner on the street, and families sleeping in one room, and people arriving off planes and given houses. Now I know people will argue that it’s a different pot that pays for each, but in my view it’s all the same. Give people asylum in their own country first, ffs. People have basic human rights in regards to food and shelter. And the country they’re resident in should be assisting the vulnerable it has before bringing more vulnerable people in and prioritizing them over everyone else.

Das Reich

They expelled the European population there years ago and then they started to emigrate to Europe, same things happened in other countries.

AlekSmart

Das Reich wrote: »

They expelled the European population there years ago and then they started to emigrate to Europe, same things happened in other countries.

Expelled the Europeans,but still not averse to the €'s....

https://www.irishaid.ie/what-we-do/countries-where-we-work/othercountries/zimbabwe/

€5,000,000 per anum,going forward Ted....;)

SafeSurfer

I don’t see the problem here. Sure didn’t Irish children fly to New York to join their mothers during the Irish famine. The conditions on the ships were atrocious apparently.

ArchXStanton

Ava Melted Wheelbarrow wrote: »

No prob with immigrants being taken in here but only when the government gets its ducks in a row with the crisis here first. It’s beyond barbaric that people are eating their dinner on the street, and families sleeping in one room, and people arriving off planes and given houses. Now I know people will argue that it’s a different pot that pays for each, but in my view it’s all the same. Give people asylum in their own country first, ffs. People have basic human rights in regards to food and shelter. And the country they’re resident in should be assisting the vulnerable it has before bringing more vulnerable people in and prioritizing them over everyone else.

That social contract between government and its people seems to have died a long time ago here

TheValeyard

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There's no direct flights from Zimbabwe to Ireland, how did he get here?

His mother was speaking to Newstalk. She arranged for him to be smuggled into the country.

Sonny noggs

Return to sender.

Beechwoodspark

If genuine then grant them

If turned down then back with them

I’m all for a working asy system so both options need to be on the table

biko

Source
https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/six-year-son-smuggled-zimbabwe-ireland

An asylum seeker who is living in direct provision here has told Newstalk that her six-year-old son was smuggled into Ireland three weeks ago.

The Zimbabwean woman, who has been in Ireland for over a year, had to flee her home country because her life was in danger. However she had to leave her on behind with her aunt.

She says she warned her aunt not to send her son to Ireland with a people smuggler; as it's dangerous and expensive.

But she says she received a phone call from social services at Dublin airport just over three weeks ago telling her that a young boy was there claiming to be her son.

Firblog

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I can't get outraged at a young child being reunited with his mother.

Who mentioned being outraged?


I expressed no opinion on the asylum/immigration process in the country, I'm just looking at airlines making money from flying people in who have no right to be in the country - just used this most recent example to highlight the issue - and think that they should get very large fine for doing so, one large enough that they'll ensure that all their passengers have visas / right to travel to Ireland in future.

Salary Negotiator

TheValeyard wrote: »

His mother was speaking to Newstalk. She arranged for him to be smuggled into the country.

No, she had to leave Zimbabwe because of some unknown threat to her life. So she left her child with an aunt despite the same threat to his life and left instructions not to try and smuggle him into Ireland.

Then unbeknownst to her the aunt snuggled the child into Ireland anyway despite her wishes.

Seems the mother couldn’t stay in Zimbabwe because of the threat to her life but she was happy to leave her child there despite the same threat to his life.

It’s just a big misunderstanding between the aunt and the mother.

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I don’t see the problem here. Sure didn’t Irish children fly to New York to join their mothers during the Irish famine. The conditions on the ships were atrocious apparently.

I suspect the air hostesses, and the airline made the kid quite comfortable. And sure, the Irish are going to make sure the kid is comfortable on arrival, and thereafter. We'll shame everyone else who treated the Irish badly (or didn't care in the slightest) when they emigrated! Aren't there rules against kids flying unaccompanied?

Ava Melted Wheelbarrow

Ava Melted Wheelbarrow wrote: »

No prob with immigrants being taken in here but only when the government gets its ducks in a row with the crisis here first. It’s beyond barbaric that people are eating their dinner on the street, and families sleeping in one room, and people arriving off planes and given houses. Now I know people will argue that it’s a different pot that pays for each, but in my view it’s all the same. Give people asylum in their own country first, ffs. People have basic human rights in regards to food and shelter. And the country they’re resident in should be assisting the vulnerable it has before bringing more vulnerable people in and prioritizing them over everyone else.

Some people are actually CHOOSING to eat on the streets rather than buy the food and cook it in their own homes.

Wibbs

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

No, she had to leave Zimbabwe because of some unknown threat to her life. So she left her child with an aunt despite the same threat to his life and left instructions not to try and smuggle him into Ireland.

Then unbeknownst to her the aunt snuggled the child into Ireland anyway despite her wishes.

Seems the mother couldn’t stay in Zimbabwe because of the threat to her life but she was happy to leave her child there despite the same threat to his life.

It’s just a big misunderstanding between the aunt and the mother.

AKA the usual freeloading Irish passport seeking bastards spouting the usual bullsh1t. Going on the "threat to life" stuff, Lagos in the late nineties and early noughties must have made the Somme in 1916 look like a teddy bear's picnic...

_Brian

The asylum problem is an Irish one where decisions are too slow.

Make decisions, allow genuine cases to stay and send those without a case back.

Salary Negotiator

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

No, she had to leave Zimbabwe because of some unknown threat to her life. So she left her child with an aunt despite the same threat to his life and left instructions not to try and smuggle him into Ireland.

Seems the mother couldn’t stay in Zimbabwe because of the threat to her life but she was happy to leave her child there despite the same threat to his life.
.

I don't see any mention of a threat to the child's life or what the actual threat was. No mention of a father either, which I must admit to finding curious. The child's life isn't in danger, he just joined the mother during her application process.

Send the kid home (at the mothers expense) until the mothers application is decided. The kid can stay with the father or aunt, or a dozen other relatives she's likely to have... it's worth remembering that African families tend to be rather large and have extended familial contacts.

I still don't see why the State has to support the kid while he's here, or why he's been allowed to stay.

Jamie2k9

You know it's racist to discuss this. This child and mother are our future doctor and engineers......

Salary Negotiator

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't see any mention of a threat to the child's life or what the actual threat was. No mention of a father either, which I must admit to finding curious. The child's life isn't in danger, he just joined the mother during her application process.

Send the kid home (at the mothers expense) until the mothers application is decided. The kid can stay with the father or aunt, or a dozen other relatives she's likely to have... it's worth remembering that African families tend to be rather large and have extended familial contacts.

I still don't see why the State has to support the kid while he's here, or why he's been allowed to stay.

I heard her speak on Newstalk, she definitely said his life was at risk. And it was the same as the risk to her life but there was no mention of what the threat actually is. No mention of the father’s circumstances either.

All in all I didn’t find her to be all that convincing.

Jamie2k9

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

I heard her speak on Newstalk, she definitely said his life was at risk. And it was the same as the risk to her life but there was no mention of what the threat actually is. No mention of the father’s circumstances either.

All in all I didn’t find her to be all that convincing.

Well what else would you expect her to say. Just like she knew full well he was coming.

Oasis1974

Hope he wasn't put in the undercarriage?

What I don't get (I do, but I'm amazed that the Asylum commission doesn't) is that she obviously has the money/resources to fly her son around, or at least, her aunt does. Why didn't she simply immigrate to half a dozen other nations in Africa or the M.East which would allow her in (since she has money)? It staggers belief that Ireland is tolerating applications like this one. She had other options. She chose Ireland. Why not, then, apply legally for immigration rather than asylum?

It's not as if Ireland is more likely to keep her safe than another country, unless distance was the objective. Perhaps suggest that she try Iceland? I'm sure they'd welcome her with open arms. :pac:

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I was always of the opinion that asylum must be sought in the first country they land in. Are there direct flights here from Zimbabwe?
Also it’d be interesting to see countries social welfare payments vs applications received

SafeSurfer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some people are actually CHOOSING to eat on the streets rather than buy the food and cook it in their own homes.

Do you think everyone has cooking facilities to cook the food in their own “homes”.

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you think everyone has cooking facilities to cook the food in their own “homes”.

One lady feeding her child at one of these homeless food stations proudly declared that she did! She said that it was cheaper to eat this way! It leads one to wonder how many others do likewise.

Rufeo

I thought this thread title said "fitting in asylum seekers" lol

And I thought that's exactly what it is. Trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Leg End Reject

Ava Melted Wheelbarrow wrote: »

Also it’d be interesting to see countries social welfare payments vs applications received

It would indeed. Quite telling in fact.

pablo128

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I don’t see the problem here. Sure didn’t Irish children fly to New York to join their mothers during the Irish famine. The conditions on the ships were atrocious apparently.

They didn't land in America with their hands out for money and expecting to be housed by the state.

corner of hells

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you think everyone has cooking facilities to cook the food in their own “homes”.

I've been working in homeless and drug services for around 10 years , mainly low threshold in drop in centres and hostels, theres quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that people are eating at these " soup run " style charity services simply because it's free not because they haven't access to cooking or food services.

Nearly all emergency accommodation provides some form of food service.

There has always been food provided through community cafes , Brother Luke's , Little Flower etc .

Theres also homeless who collect clothing at these street charities, clean them and sell them on .

Mokuba

.

Guy:Incognito

Airlines dont check the legal status of passengers do they? Is that not the job of security/immigration at airports?

corks finest

Deleted User wrote:

I'd expect him to not come over at all until her application was processed and approved. Will the father be joining them next, and perhaps her elderly grandparents who need the mothers care?

Correct, enough is enough,sort out native Irish first, suspension of foreign aid a must ,and ppl FFS realise we have Irish ppl living in tents / dying on streets,not all are junkies,those who fail asylum on appeal 1 out the gap+ TBH not worried how the oh do p.c. plastic paddies feel about this

corks finest

Ava Melted Wheelbarrow wrote:

No prob with immigrants being taken in here but only when the government gets its ducks in a row with the crisis here first. It’s beyond barbaric that people are eating their dinner on the street, and families sleeping in one room, and people arriving off planes and given houses. Now I know people will argue that it’s a different pot that pays for each, but in my view it’s all the same. Give people asylum in their own country first, ffs. People have basic human rights in regards to food and shelter. And the country they’re resident in should be assisting the vulnerable it has before bringing more vulnerable people in and prioritizing them over everyone else.

Correct ,+ only ppl eating on streets are Irish

Brian?

Firblog wrote: »

Heard on newstalk today that a six year old boy from Zimbabwe arrived in dublin airport (on a plane) to join his mother who is resident in a direct provision facility seeking asylum.


Question: Should airlines be fined for bringing people to Ireland who have no visa / legal right to enter the country?

Claiming asylum is a legal way to enter the country.

Still waters

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

If genuine then grant them

If turned down then back with them

I’m all for a working asy system so both options need to be on the table

This is the main issue, we need a system that works and at the moment it seems they can access free legal aid and drag it through the courts if they're refused or go to the media with a bleeding hearts story and get it overturned, this won't work long term and we need a system where the applicant comes to court with their belongings in readiness of boarding a flight home if they're application is turned down.
I know applicant refusals are in the 80 percent bracket but how many are still here a year after being refused, is there stats on this number anywhere

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

Claiming asylum is a legal way to enter the country.

Indeed it is, but it's funny how so few were "claiming asylum" in the 1970's, 80's and early 90's when there were just as many conflicts going on, and funny how it shot up and them promptly dropped right off after the Celtic Tiger bit the dust and the oul giving birth on a pier in Rosslare wasn't as much the golden ticket any more. And now it's back and has climbed steadily since the country starting "booming" again. I can quite imagine it'll tail off when the pot appears empty again.

I know, it's a crazy notion, but it's almost as if "claiming asylum" is oddly linked with how well the country is doing economically and how good our social welfare system is? Funny indeed.

So yeah, I call 24Kt bollocks myself. As is seems does the relevant government department as they refuse the vast majority of those from Georgia, Albania and sub Saharan Africa. Even our dear Leader noted this, though of course stuck to the right on script and kept his concerns entirely focused on the pale of face scammers. Sadly they don't shove them on the next transport out of the country.

Brian?

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed it is, but it's funny how so few were "claiming asylum" in the 1970's, 80's and early 90's when there were just as many conflicts going on, and funny how it shot up and them promptly dropped right off after the Celtic Tiger bit the dust and the oul giving birth on a pier in Rosslare wasn't as much the golden ticket any more. And now it's back and has climbed steadily since the country starting "booming" again. I can quite imagine it'll tail off when the pot appears empty again.

I know, it's a crazy notion, but it's almost as if "claiming asylum" is oddly linked with how well the country is doing economically and how good our social welfare system is? Funny indeed.

So yeah, I call 24Kt bollocks myself. As is seems does the relevant government department as they refuse the vast majority of those from Georgia, Albania and sub Saharan Africa. Even our dear Leader noted this, though of course stuck to the right on script and kept his concerns entirely focused on the pale of face scammers. Sadly they don't shove them on the next transport out of the country.

People claim asylum, the ones who aren't he genuine are sent home. It seems to work fine to me. It's not illegal so there's nothing we can do to prevent it. All we can do is make the process quicker.

Wibbs

Those stopped upon entry get short enough shrift, but those in the system already here can be in that system for quite a while, with a fair number of bleeding hearts pushing their cases, so yes it needs to be much quicker.

I see you avoided the economic and social welfare link and why we get so many scammers rocking up, or don't depending on our economy. I'd extend that to those who came here in the celtic tiger. We'll see how "well" that mess plays out in the coming decades as sadly we're stuck with that "diversity". We've only to look at our European neighbours to see the future there. No crystal ball required.

Skylinehead

Mod: There's like, a million asylum threads in Current Affairs. Use that!