Munster vs Racing 92, Sat 23rd Nov 5:30pm, BT Sport

jr86

jr86 wrote: »

Am I missing something?

I'd imagine Sarries may send a scratch side to Thomond but I expect to see their big guns all line out at the Allianz

If Munster win at home then Sarries will have two losses and will be on 5 points heading into round 4. Sarries are in a genuine fight to avoid relegation and every team in the premiership will be gunning to keep them down.

Do I think they'll send out their key players against a physical Munster in a competition they're effectively out of?

No I don't.

Shefwedfan

Saracens cannot win the premiership

The whole “we are concentrating on Premiership” is a load of BS....they have a huge squad and the only way they will be in Europe next season is to win the HC

Munster fans are hoping they don’t send over the big guns but I expect them to send out a nearly full force team

If they had no interest in HC why send out some of the first team against a sh*t Osprey team?

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

If Munster win at home then Sarries will have two losses and will be on 5 points heading into round 4. Sarries are in a genuine fight to avoid relegation and every team in the premiership will be gunning to keep them down.

Do I think they'll send out their key players against a physical Munster in a competition they're effectively out of?

No I don't.

It has happened that a team with two losses has qualified, although very unusual. But It's quite likely that Sarries will lose away at Racing as well. If they lose away to Munster, that will be curtains for them in the pool.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Saracens cannot win the premiership

The whole “we are concentrating on Premiership” is a load of BS....they have a huge squad and the only way they will be in Europe next season is to win the HC

Munster fans are hoping they don’t send over the big guns but I expect them to send out a nearly full force team

I don't think you realise or appreciate the scale of what they face.

They are optimistically going to finish in the bottom 3 of the league. They've a core of their squad returning from a gruelling world cup and until they are definitely safe from relegation they will struggle to recruit and potentially retain players.

Every other prem team is going to treat Saracens matches as a world cup final.

There is no way they will fight on two front and they can afford to miss out on Europe for two years. Relegation will seriously damage the club.

prawnsambo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Saracens cannot win the premiership

Eh? Nobody said that. They're in a relegation battle. Their future in the Prem is at stake.

Shefwedfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

Eh? Nobody said that. They're in a relegation battle. Their future in the Prem is at stake.

The only trophy they can win is the HC I meant to add

You really think they are just going to roll over and throw the competition?

Wishful thinking guys....

They have the B side which beat Glou away from
Home and Glou is one of the better sides in Premiership, they are not at risk of getting relegated

Buer

It may not be full strength but I'd be extremely surprised if the Saracens team that welcomes Munster to England isn't near to full strength.

It's 3 weeks away and they've increased the strength of their side each week. Yesterday featured about 10 of the 23 from last years final in a game they had won before a ball was kicked.

They'll go hard next week in the league integrating their remaining stars, possibly weakened for the trip to Limerick (but still a solid side) and strong again at home to give themselves a chance. I reckon they'll target the home games and hope to get out of the pool with 18-20.

Munster are going to need the Ospreys to do them a huge favour or win one of their remaining away games to progress, I reckon.

prawnsambo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The only trophy they can win is the HC I meant to add

You really think they are just going to roll over and throw the competition?

Wishful thinking guys....

They have the B side which beat Glou away from
Home and Glou is one of the better sides in Premiership, they are not at risk of getting relegated

And following on from arguing against something nobody said, here you are doing it again. If they lose another pool match, their chances of getting to the knockouts drop to as close to zero as possible after three matches. And they have to play Racing again.

jr86

prawnsambo wrote: »

It has happened that a team with two losses has qualified, although very unusual. But It's quite likely that Sarries will lose away at Racing as well. If they lose away to Munster, that will be curtains for them in the pool.

Sarries already went away to Racing.

As another poster already said if they were really throwing this competition why were Jamie George, George kruis, Brad barritt, Elliott Daly and mako vunipola playing against a woeful ospreys team

Everything is going to plan for them so far. Munster fail to beat Racing at home so Racing now have a clear run to go out and top the group, leaving a battle between Munster and Sarries for 2nd.

They'll be confident of the big guns getting a TBP at home to Munster and will likely settle for a LBP away, leaving them with a final of sorts at home to Racing to play the big guns and then qualify

prawnsambo

jr86 wrote: »

Sarries already went away to Racing.

As another poster already said if they were really throwing this competition why were Jamie George, George kruis, Brad barritt, Elliott Daly and mako vunipola playing against a woeful ospreys team

Everything is going to plan for them so far. Munster fail to beat Racing at home so Racing now have a clear run to go out and top the group, leaving a battle between Munster and Sarries for 2nd.

They'll be confident of the big guns getting a TBP at home to Munster and will likely settle for a LBP away, leaving them with a final of sorts at home to Racing to play the big guns and then qualify

Yes, I had that wrong. And corrected it in a subsequent post. They still have to play them again at home. And that's not a gimme.

But the substantive point isn't that they're throwing in the towel now. It's if they lose another match. And away to Munster in the next round is the key one. If they lose that one, then it's decision time. Their chances of qualifying are in the lowest quartile if they lose two out of three.

jr86

But even if they lose by 100 to Munster they can still finish on 20 points

That's what I don't get... Why people are saying they're effectively out by the time they play Munster at home.

20 points will be more than the runner up in the Connacht and Leinster Pools gets at least

Shefwedfan

We will see when Saracens line up in Thomond....I expect to see a nearly full strength team

prawnsambo

Saracens have to go for the away match against Munster. If they lose, all bets are off because they finish up with Racing in the last match. And still have to play Munster at home.

jr86

But why do you keep saying all bets are off

Their full strength side is a good bit better than Munster and they are well able to beat Racing at home

20 points is still extremely achievable for the best team in Europe even if they lose to Munster next up

Saracens absolutely do not want to play knock out European rugby when they are in serious danger of relegation.

I just don't see them paying anything other than lip service to the competition this year and on occasion using the games to get players upto fitness / integrated.

I'll be stunned if they are in the knock outs.

Shefwedfan

From a Saracens point of view if you looked at the group before and they wanted to throw one game it would be Racing away....on paper Racing is a far better team to Munster

Saracens are cocky and they would clearly rate themselves as the best team in the group....so throw the Racing game away, then go after the other games. They would be confident they could beat Munster in Thomond....

I’m no my saying it will happen but if they wanted to throw the Heneiken cup then none of the England players would have bothered turning out against an osprey team

Cookiemunster

jr86 wrote: »

But why do you keep saying all bets are off

Their full strength side is a good bit better than Munster and they are well able to beat Racing at home

20 points is still extremely achievable for the best team in Europe even if they lose to Munster next up

Saracens England players can only play 30 games this season. Most have already played 9 or 10 games and will also be involved in the 6Ns. That leaves them available for 15-16 Saracens games. They're not going to play their full complement in Europe because they need to win Premiership matches more than they need to win in Europe.

Vinnie222

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Saracens England players can only play 30 games this season. Most have already played 9 or 10 games and will also be involved in the 6Ns. That leaves them available for 15-16 Saracens games. They're not going to play their full complement in Europe because they need to win Premiership matches more than they need to win in Europe.

Also they have a couple of massive games over the Xmas period. Bristol and Exeter.

jr86

It's very unlikely - despite the deduction -that Saracens are in serious threat of relegation, no matter how much McCall wants to play the poor mouth and the woe is us card. They're an outstanding side who I'd expect to only lose 3 games max for the remainder of the season and that'll still comfortably see them surviving, given bonus points etc

It won't be long till they're seriously hunting down Leicester, wasps and Worcester who are all poor

It baffles me they would play George, Mako etc if they weren't at all bothered about Europe.

Interested Observer

shootermacg wrote: »

I personally expected quite a few more penalties in the Racing half, all kickable. They were pretty much flopping all over the ball every chance they got.

Munster were angels of course.

prawnsambo

jr86 wrote: »

It baffles me they would play George, Mako etc if they weren't at all bothered about Europe.

Why would it baffle you? It's not decision time yet. And these are useful matches to re-integrate their England players after the RWC.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Saracens absolutely do not want to play knock out European rugby when they are in serious danger of relegation.

I just don't see them paying anything other than lip service to the competition this year and on occasion using the games to get players upto fitness / integrated.

I'll be stunned if they are in the knock outs.

they are still third favs for the competition, behind leinster and toulouse.

Interested Observer

Deleted User wrote: »

Saracens absolutely do not want to play knock out European rugby when they are in serious danger of relegation.

I just don't see them paying anything other than lip service to the competition this year and on occasion using the games to get players upto fitness / integrated.

I'll be stunned if they are in the knock outs.

You must have a direct line to them. Maybe you could find out why a number of their first team were playing against the Ospreys yesterday, a game their academy could probably win.

prawnsambo

jr86 wrote: »

It's very unlikely - despite the deduction -that Saracens are in serious threat of relegation, no matter how much McCall wants to play the poor mouth and the woe is us card. They're an outstanding side who I'd expect to only lose 3 games max for the remainder of the season and that'll still comfortably see them surviving, given bonus points etc

They lost six matches last season. You seem to think that they can do better than that this year with the likes of Northampton, Bristol and Exeter at least providing a stern challenge? And they barely beat LI at home a couple of weeks ago.

prawnsambo

Interested Observer wrote: »

You must have a direct line to them. Maybe you could find out why a number of their first team were playing against the Ospreys yesterday, a game their academy could probably win.

To re-integrate them after the RWC? I would have thought that it was essential that they start bringing them back in.

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

Maybe you could find out why a number of their first team were playing against the Ospreys yesterday

Because they've a must win game next week.

jr86

prawnsambo wrote: »

They lost six matches last season. You seem to think that they can do better than that this year with the likes of Northampton, Bristol and Exeter at least providing a stern challenge? And they barely beat LI at home a couple of weeks ago.

They were extremely comfortable all last season they'll obviously be going much more gung ho this year and play full strength far more

jr86

prawnsambo wrote: »

They lost six matches last season. You seem to think that they can do better than that this year with the likes of Northampton, Bristol and Exeter at least providing a stern challenge? And they barely beat LI at home a couple of weeks ago.

They were extremely comfortable all last season they'll obviously be going much more gung ho this year and play full strength far more

prawnsambo

jr86 wrote: »

They were extremely comfortable all last season they'll obviously be going much more gung ho this year and play full strength far more

I have absolutely no idea what 'gung ho' means in this context. Are you suggesting that they'll flog their top players more? Because that's really going to work out for them I'm sure. They struggle during the international windows. Won two and lost two in that period this year. But the Prem season is going to be compressed this season because of the RWC. So they'll actually be playing an extra match during the 6N period next year. And virtually no breaks. Just match after match after match. Premiership and Europe, one after the other.

shootermacg

Not at all bad on rewatching.

Racing didn't score a single point for the last 30 minutes of the game. Their only score in the second half came from Russel identifying that Loughman was injured, although PoM should have made that tackle.

We also had a few missed chances in that game.


Racing made 202 tackles to Munster's 98.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats?gameId=295311&league=271937