Motor tax for a commercial vehicle

Thegingerbear

I was considering purchasing a Toyota Hilux recently until the salesman mentioned an issue relating to the motor tax. The Hilux is classed as a commercial vehicle and it would appear I need to be registered for VAT and/or working for a company. Unfortunately neither applies to me. Just wondering if anyone out there had a similar experience and is there any way around the issue?
It doesn't seem possible for a private individual to tax a commercial vehicle unless of course you pay the rate as if one was taxing a private motor car but then the tax would be over €1000 instead of the €330 for a commercial vehicle.

colm_mcm

It’s a crewcab, that’s the issue.

Isambard

you've answered your own question, you can't tax a commercial commercially unless you're a commercial user. It's to stop people doing that who should be paying over a thousand privately.

Thegingerbear

Thanks guys. Will just have to insure it privately.

Darc19

You don't have to be vat registered, but you need to show that you are a commercial user.

Self employed cert from revenue and commercial insurance and a declaration in a garda station is what is needed at a mimimum.

If you need the space for football gear or the likes, look for a decent estate car like a Superb or a lwb 4x4

colm_mcm

As a car, a Hilux is terrible.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

colm_mcm wrote: »

As a car, a Hilux is terrible.

I had a 2012 for a few months before as a company vehicle. Absolutely terrible thing to drive. God help any back seat passengers too.

Thegingerbear

I need it for some light farm work at the weekends so hence the reason I was thinking of buying it. I know they are not the most comfy but it would be convenient. They are good offroad compared to the suv options available.

Odelay

Try driving one over 40mph on a reasonable N road..I did it on a test drive and said no thanks, not for me.

Odelay

Btw, out of interest, did the sales man say the previous owner was a carpenter?

Nekarsulm

Thegingerbear wrote: »

I need it for some light farm work at the weekends so hence the reason I was thinking of buying it. I know they are not the most comfy but it would be convenient. They are good offroad compared to the suv options available.

Have you a herd number/ flock number/ swine number?
If so, you just need any bit of correspondence from Dept.Ag with your name on it.

Lewis_Benson

Apply for a flock number.
You are a chicken farmer now.
You will then present this to the person on the desk when taxing the vehicle for the first time.

You van then renew your motor tax inline from there on.

elperello

Check your local authority website Motor Tax section.

They will list a number of requirements to tax a commercial.

It's important to check your own local authority because the requirements may differ from one county to another.

If you can provide the required documentation they will tax your vehicle.

You only need to do this the first time you tax, renewals can be done on line.

Del2005

Thegingerbear wrote: »

I need it for some light farm work at the weekends so hence the reason I was thinking of buying it. I know they are not the most comfy but it would be convenient. They are good offroad compared to the suv options available.

While not enforced you do sign a statutory document that you will solely use it for commercial usage if you tax it commercially. Using it for a bit of light farm work at the weekend isn't commercial use. I now many farmers and none use a Hilux a few use 4x4s but most use vans, SUVs or cars.

Nekarsulm

Del2005 wrote: »

While not enforced you do sign a statutory document that you will solely use it for commercial usage if you tax it commercially. Using it for a bit of light farm work at the weekend isn't commercial use. I now many farmers and none use a Hilux a few use 4x4s but most use vans, SUVs or cars.

If you use it for farm work, its commercial.
You don't need to be pulling 3.5 tonne all the time.
Farmers don't use HiLux's because, while utterly reliable, you'd be more comfortable sitting in a wheelbarrow.
Go to any mart and see that farmers drive.
Landcruisers, landcruisers and more landcruisers.
Then, D-Max's, the last of the Troopers, L200's, the odd Discovery and Caddy van's.

Isambard

the declaration https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111A_en.pdf clearly states the vehicle is not to be used at any time for SDP.

So all those part time farmers etc are likely to be making a false declaration

Tacitus Kilgore

Isambard wrote: »

the declaration https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111A_en.pdf clearly states the vehicle is not to be used at any time for SDP.

So all those part time farmers etc are likely to be making a false declaration

They should all be shot at dawn

Rows Grower

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

Apply for a flock number.
You are a chicken farmer now.
You will then present this to the person on the desk when taxing the vehicle for the first time.

You van then renew your motor tax inline from there on.

It doesn't work like that Lewis.

Mickeroo

Thegingerbear wrote: »

I need it for some light farm work at the weekends so hence the reason I was thinking of buying it. I know they are not the most comfy but it would be convenient. They are good offroad compared to the suv options available.

If you use it for farm work then you shouldn't have a problem. Is there a herd number you can use? I think that's all my dad needs to tax his van.

Tacitus Kilgore

Rows Grower wrote: »

It doesn't work like that Lewis.

I don't have a herd/flock/VAT number, I have a PPS though, and that suffices nicely.

Rows Grower

Mickeroo wrote: »

If you use it for farm work then you shouldn't have a problem. Is there a herd number you can use? I think that's all my dad needs to tax his van.

Anyone applying for a commercial vehicle tax rate for the first time will need more than a borrowed herd number or even there own herd number.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

Anyone applying for a commercial vehicle tax rate for the first time will need more than a borrowed herd number or even there own herd number.

What will they need? Herd number and make a deceleration of “only” commercial use that’s it.

I’ve never heard of anyone having difficulty taxing a commercial using a herd number, even some just stick in a parents herd number and have little difficulty. How else is a farmer going to demonstrate they are a farmer as most don’t register for vat.

Del2005

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

What will they need? Herd number and make a deceleration of “only” commercial use that’s it.

I’ve never heard of anyone having difficulty taxing a commercial using a herd number, even some just stick in a parents herd number and have little difficulty. How else is a farmer going to demonstrate they are a farmer as most don’t register for vat.

There was never any problem signing the statutory declaration that you hadn't driven the vehicle to clear back tax before they changed the regulations that it has to be done in advance. The Gardaì used to allow unaccompanied learners drive off, now they are lifting their cars and getting huge fines/points.

Just because they aren't clamping done on people making false statutory declarations about commercial usage now doesn't mean that they will continue to ignore it.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

There was never any problem signing the statutory declaration that you hadn't driven the vehicle to clear back tax before they changed the regulations that it has to be done in advance. The Gardased to allow unaccompanied learners drive off, now they are lifting their cars and getting huge fines/points.

Just because they aren't clamping done on people making false statutory declarations about commercial usage now doesn't mean that they will continue to ignore it.

The gardai know its a stupid rule and have no interest in enforcing it, even if they wanted to it would be exceptionally difficult to enforce. A commercial vehicle should be eligible for commercial tax regardless of usage that would simplify the entire situation very easily as this is how everyone treats it anyway. I've yet to come across a person taxing a commercial privately regardless of usage nor have I ever heard of anyone getting even the slightest bit of hassle including myself.

Isambard

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

The gardai know its a stupid rule and have no interest in enforcing it, even if they wanted to it would be exceptionally difficult to enforce. A commercial vehicle should be eligible for commercial tax regardless of usage that would simplify the entire situation very easily as this is how everyone treats it anyway. I've yet to come across a person taxing a commercial privately regardless of usage nor have I ever heard of anyone getting even the slightest bit of hassle including myself.

I don't think it's a stupid rule, I can't get away with it so have to pay full tax and think everyone else who should be doing so should pay the same.

Tacitus Kilgore

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it's a stupid rule, I can't get away with it so have to pay full tax and think everyone else who should be doing so should pay the same.

Awww, but you probably wouldn't mind if you could do it though?

Nekarsulm

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it's a stupid rule, I can't get away with it so have to pay full tax and think everyone else who should be doing so should pay the same.

I think everyone should pay 48% rate of income tax because I have to....

It's stupid, because if applied as written, you would have to drive past Lidl on your way home from work and return in your private car to get a litre of milk....

selectamatic

Nearly all commercial insurance policies cover social domestic and personal use as well. So even insurers acknowledge the reality of how things are.

Del2005

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

The gardai know its a stupid rule and have no interest in enforcing it, even if they wanted to it would be exceptionally difficult to enforce.

It's not a stupid rule, it's a small break for companies that have to pay a lot of other taxes and rates. It's easy to enforce, Garda issues you a ticket and you provide the required documentation to prove it was business use and not private. Driving isn't a right it's a privilege so governments can set any rules they want

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

A commercial vehicle should be eligible for commercial tax regardless of usage that would simplify the entire situation very easily as this is how everyone treats it anyway.

Any vehicle can be taxed commercially, I've seen cars with commercial tax, they just require that you not use it privately when you make a Statutory declaration that you won't.

The ironic thing is that for most vehicles these days commercial tax is more expensive than private, would people be happy if all commercial vehicles can only have commercial tax with no restrictions on usage? If the OP wanted a commercial car van, which I see most farmers driving around in, would they be happy paying +€500 on the cc system?

Whocare

The problem will come if you come cross a custom checkpoint

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

It's not a stupid rule, it's a small break for companies that have to pay a lot of other taxes and rates. It's easy to enforce, Garda issues you a ticket and you provide the required documentation to prove it was business use and not private. Driving isn't a right it's a privilege so governments can set any rules they want

No it’s very difficult to enforce, any amount of reasons you could be working commercially and not have any possible way to prove it with documentation.

Del2005 wrote: »

Any vehicle can be taxed commercially, I've seen cars with commercial tax, they just require that you not use it privately when you make a Statutory declaration that you won't.

The ironic thing is that for most vehicles these days commercial tax is more expensive than private, would people be happy if all commercial vehicles can only have commercial tax with no restrictions on usage? If the OP wanted a commercial car van, which I see most farmers driving around in, would they be happy paying +€500 on the cc system?

Any vehicle can be taxed commercially? No they most certainly cannot. Only very specific vehicles can be taxed commercially. Only got very small engined car vans is private tax cheaper. Anything about 1.4 it’s more expensive and especially jeeps and pickups that farmers drive it would be 1000’s.

Whocare wrote: »

The problem will come if you come cross a custom checkpoint

Of the countless people I know driving commercials never heard of a person get questioned at a customs check point about usage nor have I myself. Green diesel is what they show most interest in with vans, commercial jeeps etc.

Whocare

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

No it’s very difficult to enforce, any amount of reasons you could be working commercially and not have any possible way to prove it with documentation.



Any vehicle can be taxed commercially? No they most certainly cannot. Only very specific vehicles can be taxed commercially. Only got very small engined car vans is private tax cheaper. Anything about 1.4 it’s more expensive and especially jeeps and pickups that farmers drive it would be 1000’s.



Of the countless people I know driving commercials never heard of a person get questioned at a customs check point about usage nor have I myself. Green diesel is what they show most interest in with vans, commercial jeeps etc.

Well I have driving my brother navara

Nekarsulm

Whocare wrote: »

The problem will come if you come cross a custom checkpoint

Customs will dip the diesel tank.
Perhaps check you haven't a couple of seats bolted into the back.

If Gardai are there too then licence, tax, insurance and test.

Without the "commercial " route, a 3.0 Trooper or Landcruiser would be €1800 a year to tax.

GM228

Del2005 wrote: »

Any vehicle can be taxed commercially, I've seen cars with commercial tax, they just require that you not use it privately when you make a Statutory declaration that you won't.

No they can't, only vehicles which are "constructed or adapted for use and used for the conveyance of goods or burden of any other description in the course of trade or business" can be taxed commercially.

MIKEKC

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

Apply for a flock number.
You are a chicken farmer now.
You will then present this to the person on the desk when taxing the vehicle for the first time.

You van then renew your motor tax inline from there on.

What is the criteria for getting a flock number?

Whocare

Whocare wrote: »

Well I have driving my brother navara

What did they say and had you no answer ready just in case?

Lewis_Benson

Rows Grower wrote: »

It doesn't work like that Lewis.

A buddy of mine could tell you otherwise.

Isambard

the difficulty isn't getting the commercial tax disc (anyone can do anything if they lie enough). The problem comes should someone choose to impose the letter of the Law and then you've rendered a false document (or whatever they choose to call it) if you're caught using it privately.

Isambard

Isambard wrote: »

the difficulty isn't getting the commercial tax disc (anyone can do anything if they lie enough). The problem comes should someone choose to impose the letter of the Law and then you've rendered a false document (or whatever they choose to call it) if you're caught using it privately.

Its sort of like being told torrenting is illegal, everyone does it, nobody cares and a few empty threats is all you will hear about enforcement.

Marcusm

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

Its sort of like being told torrenting is illegal, everyone does it, nobody cares and a few empty threats is all you will hear about enforcement.

Torrenting will generally be a breach of copyrights and, if ever enforced, will most likely be via a civil claim. Use of a false instrument (declaration) is a criminal offence which can attract a prison sentence of up to 10 years. I agree that it is rather poorly enforced and it is disgraceful that posters here are not sanctioned for advocating it. However, suggesting that it is the same as “torrenting is naive in the extreme.

Dravokivich

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

Its sort of like being told torrenting is illegal, everyone does it, nobody cares and a few empty threats is all you will hear about enforcement.

Torrenting is not illegal.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

Torrenting is not illegal.

I’m sure you know what I mean. Torrenting copyrighted material.

Dravokivich

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

I’m sure you know what I mean. Torrenting copyrighted material.

Eh... everything is copyrighted.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

Eh... everything is copyrighted.

You are just acting the bollocks and derailing the thread.

How do you want to describe it? Downloading movies and tv shows illegally.

Whocare

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

What did they say and had you no answer ready just in case?

They Ask what the purpose of commercial use of vehicle I just told them my brother farmer ask me run to co op to get some cattle ration they then dip it open the the canopy and could see empty ration bags farming stuff and that was end of it ( outside look of the vehicle is spotless doesn't look like you farming jeeps)

Rows Grower

[QUOTE=Isambard;111813381]the difficulty isn't getting the commercial tax disc (anyone can do anything if they lie enough). The problem comes should someone choose to impose the letter of the Law and then you've rendered a false document (or whatever they choose to call it) if you're caught using it privately.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly the difficulty.

It's not as easy as some people think it is to initially tax a commercial vehicle at commercial rates.

Once you get the commercial tax for the first year then renewal is fairly straightforward.

Isambard

Rows Grower wrote: »

That's exactly the difficulty.

It's not as easy as some people think it is to initially tax a commercial vehicle at commercial rates.

Once you get the commercial tax for the first year then renewal is fairly straightforward.

but still not legitimate.

Dravokivich

Huxley Worried Rubber-stamp wrote: »

You are just acting the bollocks and derailing the thread.

How do you want to describe it? Downloading movies and tv shows illegally.

I'm not. You wanted to put up a story to suit your pitiful arguement, but your story doesnt fit. That action you've since gone on to describe is not unique to torrenting and can be done with a simple browser.

Rows Grower

Isambard wrote: »

but still not legitimate.

What?

doctorchopper

Rows Grower wrote: »

That's exactly the difficulty.

It's not as easy as some people think it is to initially tax a commercial vehicle at commercial rates.

Once you get the commercial tax for the first year then renewal is fairly straightforward.

You may run into difficulty if you go to the tax office in person, do it by post then they can't ask any questions.

Rows Grower

doctorchopper wrote: »

You may run into difficulty if you go to the tax office in person, do it by post then they can't ask any questions.

Lol