End to homelessness group on Facebook

Bigmac1euro

Just thought I’d share this, it has 60k members and looks like lots of people are planning a march on the 5th of December. I think it’s about time people hit the streets. But I’m not sure how this problem is solved. This group appears to have gained momentum.
Thoughts ?

Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/487072738687586/?ref=share


Also I’m in no way affiliated with organisers etc of this group and I’m a long time poster here but just thought I’d share as I joined the group and keep reading posts and it makes for pretty depressing reading how badly some are struggling.
It actually put me in bad humour this morning.

Salary Negotiator

It’s always on a weekday, surprised they have any annual leave left in December.

The high horse brigade

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

It’s always on a weekday, surprised they have any annual leave left in December.

How else can they attract the usual rent a mob type protester?

Eric Cartman

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

It’s always on a weekday, surprised they have any annual leave left in December.

wednesday and thursday is the best day to do a protest because everyone has gotten their dole and the students are still around.

EDIT : from the welfare website

The Christmas Bonus will be paid during the week starting 2 December 2019.

Thats going to be some session lads.

RacoonQueen

In what way do people think marching will help end homelessness?

ChikiChiki

There a massive problem. It's not right. Solutions don't seem to be forthcoming quick. Seen tents outside the Aviva by the Dodder in Ballsbridge this morning. They seem to be popping up everywhere and it's becoming normalised.

Spanish Eyes

Counter march is required pronto. This country is very generous to those in need.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1117/1092457-focus-ireland-homeless-children/

Had to laugh reading this today.

It says the number of kids born into Homelessness is on the rise.
Of course it is, if Tom and Mary keep adding more kids to increase they're revenue stream and they didnt have the means to house themselves the kids are invariably born into it too.

What I found funny though was that they say the only solution is to build more social housing.
The solution is actually to consider what mechanisms in our welfare society are leading to people having kids they cant afford and maybe look to find a solution there since its causing issues like this.

Spanish Eyes

gilberto_eire wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1117/1092457-focus-ireland-homeless-children/

Had to laugh reading this today.

It says the number of kids born into Homelessness is on the rise.
Of course it is, if Tom and Mary keep adding more kids to increase they're revenue stream and they didnt have the means to house themselves the kids are invariably born into it too.

What I found funny though was that they say the only solution is to build more social housing.
The solution is actually to consider what mechanisms in our welfare society are leading to people having kids they cant afford and maybe look to find a solution there since its causing issues like this.

Those who are paying their own way for their big mortgage cannot afford to have kids or any kind of a life really.

Heartily sick of the gimme brigade now. Sorry if that offends the SJWs or whoever, but honestly, the pendulum needs to swing back to those who look after themselves now.

punisher5112

There are many that don't want to be housed or were so terrible they were removed for ruining other people's lives.

The biggest issue is there are way to many charities and it's amazing many don't seem to realise these are big business and pat their CEO nice sums of money and others too.

Look at the amount caught scamming, it's always forgotten.

The government actually gives out huge sums to a lot of these charities too but wages take up a huge amount of the money coming in.

RacoonQueen

gilberto_eire wrote: »

It says the number of kids born into Homelessness is on the rise.
Of course it is, if Tom and Mary keep adding more kids to increase they're revenue stream and they didnt have the means to house themselves the kids are invariably born into it too.

Got sick of hearing "Jacinta has been living in a hotel room with her 3 children for the last 14 months, she is 5 months pregnant with er 4th child with no house in sight."

Go f*ck yourself Jacinta. :mad:

Kermit.de.frog

ChikiChiki wrote: »

There a massive problem. It's not right. Solutions don't seem to be forthcoming quick. Seen tents outside the Aviva by the Dodder in Ballsbridge this morning. They seem to be popping up everywhere and it's becoming normalised.

Every city in the world has homelessness. It's no worse in Dublin than anywhere else.

punisher5112

If one has a roof over their head then they ain't homeless....

The word homeless is used way too much....

ChikiChiki

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Every city in the world has homelessness. It's no worse in Dublin than anywhere else.

Yes, I agree but it seems to getting out of hand. We are always going to have homeless, thats a fact. I'm using my eyes and what I see as I walk around the city every day. The increase in numbers is evident.

Johnny Sausage

Well if all 60k of them let one homeless person move in with them then that'll solve a good bit

And they will get lots of likes on their inevitable post bragging about how woke and humble they are

GHOST MGG

Its becoming a major issue in the city now...coming home from work on the bus the other night and seeing lines of single tents along the inner wall of the grand canal and it was baltics out......you gotta feel sorry for these people.

I really hate the "end homelessness" argument. You can't just give the majority of homeless a house as they have no life skills and they will destroy it. Have any of ye ever seen the inner workings of a homeless hostel? It's like Beirut. Whilst I agree a lot can be done for them, the money would be better put into addiction services and mental health.

punisher5112

GHOST MGG wrote: »

Its becoming a major issue in the city now...coming home from work on the bus the other night and seeing lines of single tents along the inner wall of the grand canal and it was baltics out......you gotta feel sorry for these people.

You do realise people use tents in the Antarctic and other such places.

They have sleeping bags also.

Some of these people are doing so due to the rents which in itself is another story with such extortionate prices.

Some of these people don't want help or it suits their lifestyle such as drink and or drugs and so on.

Sure there are people in tents in killiney too, actually only around the corner from Eddie ervines old house....

Bigmac1euro

In fairness there’s a lot more the government could be doing with the problems we’re facing but obviously nothing happens overnight. There is clearly a rental market completely out of control. And pricing is getting ridiculous, put aside social housing for a second.

Take a man who has divorced recently. Where is he going to live ? When his kids and wife live in the house he pays for. It’s not always a case of social welfare bums looking for an easy life. There’s plenty with genuine problems. I think people giving out about the social welfare bums and putting all homeless into this category is just convenient for the government because we aren’t focusing on the actual issue and that’s lack of supply and the reason that is, is because regulations for building is too strict, the tax on vacant property is not high enough, and the tax taken from your standard LL is too much to make it worth renting out property or seeing it as an investment opportunity. Landlords are selling up and you’ve got the reits buying up to capitalise on your standard 9-5er.
It’s an absolute shambolic disaster.
I lived abroad and I didn’t see the issues as bad as here. It was another European city but we shouldn’t settle for the ridiculously high taxes we pay on absolutely everything. I do understand there’s worse countries but that’s not an argument that’s a lazy way of brushing the issue aside because you can’t be arsed. We should be striving to be a great country.
I do think we could do with slowing down on the intake of immigrants because we clearly haven’t got a handle on this mess.

banie01

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Got sick of hearing "Jacinta has been living in a hotel room with her 3 children for the last 14 months, she is 5 months pregnant with er 4th child with no house in sight."

Go f*ck yourself Jacinta. :mad:

If she was doing that in the 1st place, there'd be fewer kids to house

There is a serious issue with the Government supporting rent via HAP and other supports in that a close to 1Bln a year is being spent with no actual return or capital infrastructure/housing growth.

A 1 billion a year spend would translate into a massive bond if finance was sought at even a 2% coupon.
It would allow near immediate inroads into multiple council waiting lists if those funds were used to build.

The issue arises however that solely "social" housing estates tend to become endemic with anti-social behaviour and other issues.
The days of large scale "corporation" estates are gone, finding a building model that will allow a mix of social and affordable housing is needed.

Then the issue becomes one of enforcing tenancy agreements, of ensuring tenant responsibility and of course the comensurate Landlord responsibility of good maintainance and so on.

Finding a way to move that @1billion into building accomodation rather than subsidizing rents will allow significant building to take place.

Thats not an issue a mid-week march will address though

Berserker

Christmas is coming so the usual celebrity suspects will be up for this.

punisher5112 wrote: »

If one has a roof over their head then they ain't homeless.... The word homeless is used way too much....

The overuse of the term is doing nothing for the genuine cases. Hate the use of the term "crisis" also.

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I lived abroad and I didn’t see the issues as bad as here.

Where did you live? Lived in NY and Houston and Dublin is paradise in comparison when it comes to poverty or homelessness.

Bigmac1euro

Berserker wrote: »

Where did you live? Lived in NY and Houston and Dublin is paradise in comparison when it comes to poverty or homelessness.

I lived in Finland as I mentioned above just another European city. I’ve been to Berlin a few times and isn’t nearly as bad. We shouldn’t be looking at other cities to judge how bad the problem is.
When rent is averaging at a full months salary we have serious problems.

banie01

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

It’s an absolute shambolic disaster.
I lived abroad and I didn’t see the issues as bad as here. It was another European city but we shouldn’t settle for the ridiculously high taxes we pay on absolutely everything.

Bollox!
I have not been in a single major European City that doesn't have worse homeless issues than Dublin, or any Irish city.

I spent 4yrs living abroad, and aside from that travelled regularly and fairly extensively across Europe on a professional basis.
Yes the visibility of the homeless numbers have jumped drastically and dramatically in recent years.

But I'm just back from Birmingham this morning, and if you want to see a Homeless crisis I'd suggest a look at our closest neighbour before decrying Ireland and our current issues as a crisis.

The high horse brigade

banie01 wrote: »

Bollox!
I have not been in a single major European City that doesn't have worse homeless issues than Dublin, or any Irish city.

I spent 4yrs living abroad, and aside from that travelled regularly and fairly extensively across Europe on a professional basis.
Yes the visibility of the homeless numbers have jumped drastically and dramatically in recent years.

But I'm just back from Birmingham this morning, and if you want to see a Homeless crisis I'd suggest a look at our closest neighbour before decrying Ireland and our current issues as a crisis.

Was in Manchester last year and the homelessness there was something we noticed. Seemed worse than Dublin

Blaizes

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I lived in Finland as I mentioned above just another European city. I’ve been to Berlin a few times and isn’t nearly as bad. We shouldn’t be looking at other cities to judge how bad the problem is.
When rent is averaging at a full months salary we have serious problems.

Rent is ridiculous for minimum wage workers, students, young graduates trying to get a start etc. How are they supposed to manage really seems like no one cares. Have nieces and nephews in college or just graduated and the rent costs are just staggering

dartboardio

It is also annoying me. At first I felt sorry for the members but now it seems to be a 'who has it morenbad' competition.

Everyday I'm seeing stories of fully able bodied people that don't work. Waiting ten years on a house from the council, with four kids and playing the 'poor me' card..

Obviously some are genuinely homeless but there's alot of shxt.. People purposely not working, sponging from the government, saying oh poor me I'm waiting ten years for a free house.. Yet I keep having kids..

Bigmac1euro

banie01 wrote: »

Bollox!
I have not been in a single major European City that doesn't have worse homeless issues than Dublin, or any Irish city.

I spent 4yrs living abroad, and aside from that travelled regularly and fairly extensively across Europe on a professional basis.
Yes the visibility of the homeless numbers have jumped drastically and dramatically in recent years.

But I'm just back from Birmingham this morning, and if you want to see a Homeless crisis I'd suggest a look at our closest neighbour before decrying Ireland and our current issues as a crisis.

According to Wikipedia UK has double the amount of homeless as us and the US has quite a bit less than us.
Again this is nothing to go by. Why compare ourselves with other countries ? I mean that’s not addressing the issue.
The rental problem is out of control and this needs to be tackled head on. This is why your seeing homeless getting worse in recent times. We are feeling the effects of the unstable rental market imo.

Tony EH

Average house price in Dublin is 375,000. Average rent is now 1,400. We have a low wage economy that doesn't benefit workers. There's the problem right there.

But some want to blame people living in tents in Phoenix Park.

Kermit.de.frog

Dublin is not as bad for homelessness as most other cities I have visited recently.

It's just the megaphones have been out here for the last couple years by the usual groups on this specific issue.

These people want 'forever homes'. I leave it to the contributing majority of society wether they believe that is a good idea or not.

Berserker

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Was in Manchester last year and the homelessness there was something we noticed. Seemed worse than Dublin

Manchester has a massive issue with drugs. 'Spice' is a huge problem there for some reason. The number of homeless people around Picadilly Gardens is scary.

Blaizes wrote: »

Rent is ridiculous for minimum wage workers, students, young graduates trying to get a start etc. How are they supposed to manage really seems like no one cares. Have nieces and nephews in college or just graduated and the rent costs are just staggering

We've lost two lads of late in work. They've had enough of the cost of renting and they've decided to move to abroad for work. Both of them are software engineers with plenty of experience.

Bigmac1euro

banie01 wrote: »

Bollox!
I have not been in a single major European City that doesn't have worse homeless issues than Dublin, or any Irish city.

I spent 4yrs living abroad, and aside from that travelled regularly and fairly extensively across Europe on a professional basis.

I understand you’ve been travelling on a professional basis well done for that but the stats are all over the internet and some of these countries don’t actually have as bad homelessness.
Here’s a list of cities doing better than ourselves.

Germany
Finland
Spain
Italy
Norway
Portugal
Poland
Romania.

Where have you actually travelled in Europe ?

Kermit.de.frog

Tony EH wrote: »

We have a low wage economy.

What is the average industrial wage in Ireland compared to our peers?

The high taxes that eat in to our high wages a lot of that is going in to the welfare system.

We need lower taxes and less expenditure.

Amirani

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I’ve been to Berlin a few times and isn’t nearly as bad.

There's over 7000 people sleeping rough in Berlin. You must not have been looking hard enough or in the right places.

Germany has a total homeless population of about 650,000, of which about 48,000 sleep on the streets. It's not even close to being a problem unique to Ireland.

bobbysands81

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Counter march is required pronto. This country is very generous to those in need.

You do realise that some homeless people are working full time?

dartboardio

Guys, the issue here in the Facebook group we are speaking about, is not in relation to low wages.

Majority of the members on said Facebook group don't work, and majority are on social welfare payments and have been for years, the majority on that group are the typical 'sponge off the government' types.

I know that sounds awful, but nobody on that group is looking for change in regards to economy, low wages.. Etc. They are all saying 'poor me, I had my first kid at 16, three more since, never worked a day in my life, still waiting for my free house'


Its embarrassing and needs to be closed, imo.

The real problem of homelessness is as described above, people working their arse off and still unable to fund their own housing or rent. Or people having to leave because landlord unfairly raising rent.

Tony EH

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What is the average industrial wage in Ireland compared to our peers?

Who gives a fuck. It's not good enough to live here properly and even hope for the basics in life, like a roof over one's head.

It shouldn't cost so much in the first place.

banie01

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

According to Wikipedia UK has double the amount of homeless as us and the US has quite a bit less than us.
Again this is nothing to go by. Why compare ourselves with other countries ? I mean that’s not addressing the issue.
The rental problem is out of control and this needs to be tackled head on. This is why your seeing homeless getting worse in recent times. We are feeling the effects of the unstable rental market imo.

One needs to be very careful comparing the homeless numbers.
The UK/US and most other countries count those in emergency accommodation as being housed.

Ireland doesn't, and the plethora of homeless charities that are reliant upon inflating the actual number of homeless to ensure funding will keep it that way.

There is a relatively low number of rough sleepers, that is what homelessness is.
There is a large cohort of strategic homelessness, that is advised and supported by those charities.
Similar to how we had a large cohort who chose to game their mortgage provider over the recent past.

The rental market is hugely distorted, and artificially inflated to a large extent by the subsidised HAP and other rental supports.
That needs to be addressed.
What also needs to be addressed is the gaming of the numbers by the homeless charities, aswell as the gaming of the social housing system and the sense of entitlement that many have to to subsidised homes.

collywobble7

Deleted User wrote:

I really hate the "end homelessness" argument. You can't just give the majority of homeless a house as they have no life skills and they will destroy it. Have any of ye ever seen the inner workings of a homeless hostel? It's like Beirut. Whilst I agree a lot can be done for them, the money would be better put into addiction services and mental health.

Away with you with your common sense

Berserker

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I’ve been to Berlin a few times and isn’t nearly as bad.

Have to disagree with you on that. Berlin was horrific. Probably the worst I've seen Europe. Stuttgart was terrible also but I may have just seen the worst of both cities.

Eric Cartman

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I understand you’ve been travelling on a professional basis well done for that but the stats are all over the internet and some of these cities don’t actually have as bad homelessness.
Here’s a list of cities doing better than ourselves.

Germany
Finland
Spain
Italy
Norway
Portugal
Poland
Romania.

Where have you actually travelled in Europe ?

in terms of rough sleepers, germany, portugal and romania are definitely infinitely worse off than we are in this regard.

in terms of people putting themselves on a list for a free house, yeah we have a pretty high number but we count differently and a lot more generously than most other countries.

Blaizes

Berserker wrote: »

Manchester has a massive issue with drugs. 'Spice' is a huge problem there for some reason. The number of homeless people around Picadilly Gardens is scary.



We've lost two lads of late in work. They've had enough of the cost of renting and they've decided to move to abroad for work. Both of them are software engineers with plenty of experience.

More power to them, my own nieces and nephews (two just finished college are going abroad after Christmas)as they just can’t afford to stay here.

banie01

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I understand you’ve been travelling on a professional basis well done for that but the stats are all over the internet and some of these cities don’t actually have as bad homelessness.
Here’s a list of cities doing better than ourselves.

Germany
Finland
Spain
Italy
Norway
Portugal
Poland
Romania.

Where have you actually travelled in Europe ?

Far enough to know the difference between a city and a country for one.

Your use and understanding of numbers and statistics is skewed by the criteria used to actually measure homelessness.
What is homeless in Ireland, is not homeless in the vast majority of other OECD members.

Tony EH

banie01 wrote: »

There is a relatively low number of rough sleepers, that is what homelessness is.

No, it isn't and it's never been counted like that.

Homeless is "without fixed abode".

It doesn't just mean sleeping rough.

dartboardio

Most in emergency accomodation are people who have never worked/and wait for a free house, going homeless rather than work to provide a home for their offspring.


Anyway, in relation to other eu countries.. Yes, just look at Germany and any of the main cities. I had families of six sleeping outside my hotel, buggies and all, on the cold hard ground.

banie01

Tony EH wrote: »

No, it isn't and it's never been counted like that.

Homeless is "without fixed abode".

It doesn't just mean sleeping rough.

You seem to have deliberately misunderstood my thrust?
Rough sleepers are how other countries collate their homeless numbers.


Living in a Shelter/Family Hub/Hotel or other form of emergency accommodation in Ireland means you are homeless
Which is the Irish standard for counting it.
It is not how it is counted elsewhere.
.

In other OECD countries, it doesn't.

Bigmac1euro

Amirani wrote: »

There's over 7000 people sleeping rough in Berlin. You must not have been looking hard enough or in the right places.

Germany has a total homeless population of about 650,000, of which about 48,000 sleep on the streets. It's not even close to being a problem unique to Ireland.

I wasn’t in Berlin looking for homeless people. While I did spot a small few it was nothing in comparison to Dublin. Dublin is a much smaller denser city though so that’s probably why it’s easier to spot.
Walk up Henry street or over the Liffey you’ll spot at least 10/15
Where as if you cover that distance in Berlin you might spot 2.

Eric Cartman

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I wasn’t in Berlin looking for homeless people. While I did spot a small few it was nothing in comparison to Dublin. Dublin is a much smaller denser city though so that’s probably why it’s easier to spot.
Walk up Henry street or over the Liffey you’ll spot at least 10/15
Where as if you cover that distance in Berlin you might spot 2.

or if you stand in the middle of alexanderplatz you'll see about 20, if you go in to any park at night you'll have 6-7 rummaging for plastic bottles to get a return on. Berlin absolutely has a lot more rough sleepers than dublin in actuality, per capita whatever.

weldoninhio

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

I understand you’ve been travelling on a professional basis well done for that but the stats are all over the internet and some of these countries don’t actually have as bad homelessness.
Here’s a list of cities doing better than ourselves.

Germany
Finland
Spain
Italy
Norway
Portugal
Poland
Romania.

Where have you actually travelled in Europe ?

None of those are cities.

Bigmac1euro

banie01 wrote: »

Far enough to know the difference between a city and a country for one.

Your use and understanding of numbers and statistics is skewed by the criteria used to actually measure homelessness.
What is homeless in Ireland, is not homeless in the vast majority of other OECD members.

Clearly was a mistake I did mean country.
How do we know these countries don’t measure homelessness in a similar fashion ?

Tony EH

banie01 wrote: »

You seem to have deliberately misunderstood my thrust?
Rough sleepers are how other countries collate their homeless numbers.


Living in a Shelter/Family Hub/Hotel or other form of emergency accommodation in Ireland means you are homeless
Which is the Irish standard for counting it.
It is not how it is counted elsewhere.
.

In other OECD countries, it doesn't.

How Homelessness is collated varies from country to country and organisations, such as ETHOS, have been trying to come up with common definitions. It isn't just a case of the "OECD" doing it differently than here.

Bigmac1euro

dartboardio wrote: »

Most in emergency accomodation are people who have never worked/and wait for a free house, going homeless rather than work to provide a home for their offspring.

How do you know that ? I’m genuinely curious.