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Martin Nolan strikes again

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    #32
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Why was petition ignored

    You can't just fire a judge, it requires a joint resolution from both houses of the Oireachtas and can only constitutionally be done for "stated misbehaviour or incapacity", something which has never been legally defined.


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    #33
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭Nermal


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    So when we see the rules being applied as we know they ought to be, it doesn't give rise to outrage. What is more likely to give rise to outrage among lawyers is seeing a clearly very knowledgeable and experienced judge being lambasted for an almost impeccable application of the principles we know have to be applied.

    Obviously, most people fundamentally disagree with those principles.

    They don't *have* to be applied, judges have made the decision to apply them.

    People are understandably angry because they have had no say in them.


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    #34
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Nermal wrote: »
    Obviously, most people fundamentally disagree with those principles.

    They don't *have* to be applied, judges have made the decision to apply them.

    People are understandably angry because they have had no say in them.

    Certain principles and sentencing norms do have to be applied (they vary depending on circumstances especially the plea entered), when not followed properly the sentence is usually adjusted to what should be considered proper upon appeal.

    You don't see the DPP appealing any unduly lenient sentences in these cases for a reason.


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    #35
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,714 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Nermal wrote: »
    Obviously, most people fundamentally disagree with those principles.

    They don't *have* to be applied, judges have made the decision to apply them.

    People are understandably angry because they have had no say in them.

    Just wondering if you could list the principles in question that you so fundamentally disagree with?

    And like many or dare I say it all laws, unsurprisingly they in fact do have to be applied by judges.

    See my last post on the emotional response side of things. It's for that very reason we have lawyers and judges rather than submitting our societal problems to the will of an irrational and blood thirsty mob.


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    #36
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,714 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Moderator: I have had to delete posts and issue a couple of bans over comments here that are totally unacceptable anywhere on this site never mind this forum which has stricter rules around civility and abuse.

    There is, as pointed out above, also a requirment t engage in some semblance of legal discussion by engaging with legal principles and discussing relevant law or legal opinion on things like alternative approaches to sentencing for example.

    This isn't the Say What You Like forum, it's Legal Discussion.


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    #37
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    Just wondering if you could list the principles in question that you so fundamentally disagree with?

    This will present a problem for many (or indeed most if not all who slate such), you need to actually understand them before you can objectively disagree with them, otherwise just a misinformed opinion is presented.


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    #38
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    GM228 wrote: »
    You don't see the DPP appealing any unduly lenient sentences in these cases for a reason.

    Have the DPP appealed any of his judgements to a higher court? As a matter of interest. I always thought that a slightly lenient sentence was given by some judges so that if it was appealed by the DPP or the defendant that the higher court would either stamp it as being appropriate or give scope to increase it rather than have it lessened.


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    #39
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭Tow


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Have the DPP appealed any of his judgements to a higher court? As a matter of interest. I always thought that a slightly lenient sentence was given by some judges so that if it was appealed by the DPP or the defendant that the higher court would either stamp it as being appropriate or give scope to increase it rather than have it lessened.

    Look up the 'Garlic Man', who got 6 years from Nolan for €1.6 of import duty fraud.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



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    #40
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Have the DPP appealed any of his judgements to a higher court? As a matter of interest. I always thought that a slightly lenient sentence was given by some judges so that if it was appealed by the DPP or the defendant that the higher court would either stamp it as being appropriate or give scope to increase it rather than have it lessened.

    Unknown, but like many CC judges I'm sure there has been an appeal or two by the DPP.


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    #41
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Tow wrote: »
    Look up the 'Garlic Man', who got 6 years from Nolan for €1.6 of import duty fraud.

    His sentence was reduced to 2 years.

    Whilst the original sentence was excessive people forget he was charged with multiple counts, it wasn't just a single offence. He was charged with 15 counts, pleaded guilty to 4 and sentenced for 2.


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    #42
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    GM228 wrote: »
    His sentence was reduced to 2 years.

    Whilst the sentence was excessive people forget he was charged with multiple counts, it wasn't just a single offence. He was charged with 15 counts, pleaded guilty to 4 and sentenced for 2.
    A multi-million Euro international tax fraud perpetrated over a number of years yet somehow he's a folk hero because according to some it was just a mishap with a form.

    I'm sure all their competitors who struggled or failed during the economic crisis feel great empathy for the mighty Garlic Man.


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    #43
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    The judge you want when you're accused of child abuse or possessing child born. Astonishing.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-with-child-porn-given-suspended-sentence-4943658-Dec2019/


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    #44
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    The judge you want when you're accused of child abuse or possessing child born. Astonishing.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-with-child-porn-given-suspended-sentence-4943658-Dec2019/

    saw that, masturbating infront of kids in shops and having child porn and gets to walk out. Whats nolans problem.


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    #45
    cobhguy28
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭cobhguy28


    He must of heard about this thread.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-jailed-sexual-encounters-underage-girls-4944076-Dec2019/

    "A SEPARATED MAN who had sexual encounters with three underage girls one year after he was caught with child pornography has been jailed for seven and a half years."


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    #46
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    It seems obvious to me that Nolan seems to have a soft touch to first offenses and people with single charges (or multiple charges in a short period of time).

    He has a harsher reaction to people charged with multiple counts over a longer period of time.

    Generally I feel this principals are valid however in the specifics I feel the extent of these reactions may well go too far.


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