FTTH ONT

kevincork

I know, it already been said that the ONT is mandatory and can't be bypass but
I found this article which give me hope again

https://blog.confirm.ch/direct-attaching-a-ubiquiti-edge-router-to-a-fibre-network/https://blog.confirm.ch/direct-attaching-a-ubiquiti-edge-router-to-a-fibre-network/

I have a EdgeRouter 12 myself, I don't have a spare transmitter for SFP but I have two SFP port on my router and very want to get rid of this annoying Huawei Echo Life HG8010H

The ONT basically just convert the SC APC fibre to Eth right? don't even involve PPoE or anything else ?
I assume ISP might have a MAC whitelist but then I can just spoof my own router MAC

tsue921i8wljb3

The ONT is doing some extra complicated stuff with VLANs so I doubt you're going to be able to just spoof a MAC address and connect but feel free to try if you wish and let us know how you get on.

kevincork

Amiyah Rotten Rival wrote: »

The ONT is doing some extra complicated stuff with VLANs so I doubt you're going to be able to just spoof a MAC address and connect but feel free to try if you wish and let us know how you get on.

Ok, though the VLAN 10 (internet) was managed from the ISP side and the ONT only had a VLAN for management

I created an account with huawei to have access to they full docs, seems like the ONT is on subnet as expected
192.168.100.100/25

tsue921i8wljb3

The ONT takes the customer VLAN (10) and swaps it for a service VLAN to identify each operator (ISP). The service VLAN tag is not visible to the user or the operator so I'm not sure how you'll find it.

tuxy

Is this another one of those cases where he should let his neighbours know they may be without service for a while before he tries it?

tsue921i8wljb3

tuxy wrote: »

Is this another one of those cases where he should let his neighbours know they may be without service for a while before he tries it?

Potentially, although more likely he gets blacklisted and might have to contact his ISP to get back online which should be an interesting conversation!

oscarBravo

The linked article describes a bidi SFP. That's not even remotely the same thing as GPON (apart from the fact that PON also uses bidirectional fibre).

You can't get rid of the ONT. Put the idea out of your mind.

tuxy

What is this massive issue some people have with the ONT?

ED E

Andyfromsligo
Kevincork


....I'm starting to see a trend here. Next we'll have BrianOfLouth on asking why the ONT doesnt come in green, black and purple.

kevincork

tuxy wrote: »

What is this massive issue some people have with the ONT?

First : not sure why Huawei is trusted in EU they should get ban (probably only good call the US ever made)

Two : the router is powered over PoE, switch / router are all wired 20m away, with the ONT I need two UPS (one only for the ONT...) (+ a random horrible box and cable on the wall)

Three : Don’t like ISP gear in general, like they FritzBox

Last : like open thing but I guess I can forgot about that in Ireland anyway

Seems to have some case in US / Canada with people bypassing the ONT but guess it’s a different setup

Oh also small perf improvement + don’t require Ethernet (can start a list of con for Ethernet VS pro for fiber)

tuxy

kevincork wrote: »

First : not sure why Huawei is trusted in EU they should get ban (probably only good call the US ever made)

Is that your main problem and do you plan on bypassing the OLT which is probably also Huawei.

Sounds like a major headache, you could try going back to DSL or even better use a small wireless ISP.

kevincork

tuxy wrote: »

Is that your main problem and do you plan on bypassing the OLT which is probably also Huawei.

Sounds like a major headache, you could try going back to DSL or even better use a small wireless ISP.

Yes you have a point for the OLT and the global telecommunication infrastructure but still limiting from my side plus the other points

Did had my own wireless setup over 4G before but work in a big company which require a huge bandwidth

Johnboy1951

kevincork wrote: »

First : not sure why Huawei is trusted in EU they should get ban (probably only good call the US ever made)

You trust the USA more? :eek:

tuxy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You trust the USA more? :eek:

You would wonder what desktop or laptop Kevin uses when both Intel and AMD have management engines that run in the background and there's no way of telling what they do. This is not just speculation like there is with Huawei but a known fact.

I'd rather China spying on me as it's the US that would have the power to extradite if they find something they don't like.

Johnboy1951

tuxy wrote: »

You would wonder what desktop or laptop Kevin uses when both Intel and AMD have management engines that run in the background and there's no way of telling what they do. This is not just speculation like there is with Huawei but a known fact.

I'd rather China spying on me as it's the US that would have the power to extradite if they find something they don't like.

Although I had not previously thought of it that way, I tend to agree with you.

kevincork

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You trust the USA more? :eek:

don't think I ever said that
"probably only good call the US ever made"

kevincork

tuxy wrote: »

You would wonder what desktop or laptop Kevin uses when both Intel and AMD have management engines that run in the background and there's no way of telling what they do. This is not just speculation like there is with Huawei but a known fact.

I'd rather China spying on me as it's the US that would have the power to extradite if they find something they don't like.

we can talk about security all days, there is backdoor nearly everywhere (probably more in CHN product though....)

They is so much fact when CHN gouvernement was directly collecting data from unpatched security flow

same gouvernement which own Huawei just FYI or have a AI social score which won't let people buy airplane ticket because they didn't cross the road properly

anyway I guess the main topic was I wanted to bypass the ONT, just gonna get a second UPC just for the 5V ONT

tuxy

A part of me wants you to try to replace the ONT, just to see the mess it may cause.
Someone will try it eventually.

kevincork

tuxy wrote: »

A part of me wants you to try to replace the ONT, just to see the mess it may cause.
Someone will try it eventually.

in the worst case you get disconnected and have to plug the ONT back.

Now, some seems to say "you not allowed to do that" which I'm not sure whatever it's the case or not, but that would be very sad, especially that it's some hardware running inside your house.... then yes I guess you can get ban from the ISP as they gonna see an unauthorised MAC address and vendors equipment.

looking at the ONT webif, it's seems that this need to be registered to the OLT ...
(I didn't had time to try SSH yet)


-- nothing to do with the subject but if some are curious about what the ONT GUI look like, here is some screenshot.

~You can connect yourself, by plugging a computer to the ethernet port, and settings the IP address of the computer to 192.168.100.100 / 255.255.255.0 and navigate to 192.168.100.1 , user root, password admin

https://ibb.co/KjvYSD8
https://ibb.co/cNnfPXk
https://ibb.co/7SH9FJX
https://ibb.co/JkYSNb8

tuxy

kevincork wrote: »

in the worst case you get disconnected and have to plug the ONT back.

So, not possibility of a custom setup like this causing problems and acting as a rogue ONT?

You would wonder why Eir spent so much time and money on the testing phase.

ED E

Send light at the wrong time and you take down everyone on your fiber. Theres a reason to not allow 3rd party kit.

kevincork

tuxy wrote: »

So, not possibility of a custom setup like this causing problems and acting as a rogue ONT?

You would wonder why Eir spent so much time and money on the testing phase.

I’m not even talking about changing the configuration though

— also probably because Éir knowledge is near zero ... I mean outside been a network enthusiast, I never study anything I this mater, but when KN and Eir came to me a few time when I had an issue they knowledge was chocking !

I’m with Digiweb and the Eir network manager as trying to test my connection with a Eir modem and didn’t understand why this couldn’t connect.... I had to show him how is own modem was working and found the PPOE settings to make it work

tuxy

ED E wrote: »

Send light at the wrong time and you take down everyone on your fiber. Theres a reason to not allow 3rd party kit.

Kevin seems to know better with his deep understanding of GPON

kevincork wrote: »

How should that cause any issue to the network ?
I’m not even talking about changing the configuration

It's good that you are not considering using another ONT because that would be a mistake.

kevincork

tuxy wrote: »

Kevin seems to know better with his deep understanding of GPON



It's good that you are not considering using another ONT because that would be a mistake.

Don’t believe I said that but whatever ....

kevincork

ED E wrote: »

Send light at the wrong time and you take down everyone on your fiber. Theres a reason to not allow 3rd party kit.

It’s interesting, I though OLT converts the standard signals used by fiber optic service (FiOS) to the frequency and framing used by PON system.

Again the own ONT subject is close but just curious how is not a massive security flow ? From what you saying (and I’m not saying otherwise) anyone can basically take down a network just by messing around with an ONT, and they add this to consumer’s house, that seems unbelievable (again I’m not doubting what you saying)

tuxy

kevincork wrote: »

Don’t believe I said that but whatever ....

I'm confused, have you decided that you will or won't be changing the ONT?
if you think you can find hardware that may be compatible how do you plan to test it without the chance of compromising the network for all your neighbours.

Marlow

kevincork wrote: »

It’s interesting, I though OLT converts the standard signals used by fiber optic service (FiOS) to the frequency and framing used by PON system.

Again the own ONT subject is close but just curious how is not a massive security flow ? From what you saying (and I’m not saying otherwise) anyone can basically take down a network just by messing around with an ONT, and they add this to consumer’s house, that seems unbelievable (again I’m not doubting what you saying)

Not quite like that. Every cluster consists of up to 128 customers. In OpenEIRs case, that's only 31, but still.

If there is a rogue ONT or GPON SFP module on this cluster, then it can take all 31 customers down. It would not affect other ports on the OLT.

/M

WaitingFTTH

Resurrecting an old thread…...

I will shortly have an FTTH install on the openeir network.

I want to use a fibre FritzBox 5530 as my network device.

The ONT that will be installed - so I'm told - will be a Huawei unit which will deliver ethernet.

Is there an option to request a fibre-only ONT which will provide a fibre output to feed the FritzBox 5530 directly?

I want to avoid ethernet if possible.

Anyone know if this is possible?

heavydawson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542655#Comment_118542655

It sounds like you don't need an ONT at all - the Fritzbox is the ONT in your desired case. What's wrong with the Ethernet option? You just don't want the extra cable?

WaitingFTTH

I am limited with space in my home office and want to minimise cables and power sources.

I'm new to fibre and have been told that the service provider ONT is required as it provides the user authentication with the OLT.

I thought, as you say, that the FritzBox could be the ONT but I'm told that is not possible.

If there is way to connect the incoming fibre to the FritzBox then I'd like to know about it.

alec76

Probably possible with the proper skill set and knowledge. OpenEir definitely won't be happy about it though.

Best advice, stay away from it .

Regular Router could be connected directly to ONT, so why would you need your own Fiber modem( ONT) in the first place?

oscarBravo

It's theoretically possible to connect the 5530 to the NTU (bypassing the ONT entirely), but only if your ISP has made the necessary arrangements with open eir to make it possible. It's not something you can do yourself.

Snaga

Possible in the pure technical perspective (the art of the possible) - but not likely in practice.

The fritzbox 5530 - while it can connect to a PON directly - it needs a specialised SFP to connect to the PON network directly.

The service provider likely locks the PON down to known ONT serial numbers - so you cant just plug any old ONT into the network. They also may not allow non Huawei ONT's onto the PON - interop is not like DSL here, things are not automatically compatible and therefore locked down. (PON is not ethernet, the upstream transmission is tightly clocked between all ONT's on the PON (every ONT transmits when and only-when they are told they can - in their own non-overlapping window), non compatibility and incorrect timing can be detrimental for everyone on the PON).

The ONT may also be doing traffic management (not just VLAN's, but QoS/Queue management etc...) depending on the network providers configuration. Third party devices can break this.

The ONT will also support the performance monitoring features the network operator needs for service assurance (Packet counters, visibility of light levels) while providing a clear active demarcation point to whoever the retail service provider operator might be (assuming a SIRO situation for example).

My advice: Consider the ONT as necessary infrastructure. Plug your Fritzbox in via the copper Gig port so you can manage the L3 aspects of the network yourself.

oscarBravo

The service provider likely locks the PON down to known ONT serial numbers - so you cant just plug any old ONT into the network.

This is very true, but open eir recently introduced an "NTU connection" version of FTTH, which allows service providers to submit PON-capable CPE for certification, and then to register their own ONTs - or CPEs with integrated ONTs, like AVM's PON SFPs - on the open eir network.

I have no idea how many ISPs are providing the service. It seems like a lot of faff at the back end for questionable benefit.

alec76

I would say , smart choice is to sign up with ISP which already supplying Fritzboxes as CPE and use existing Fritzbox 5530 as Access Point, part of a Mesh system.

5530 only a basic unit performance wise same as 7530 , no point to bypass existing ONT for this sake.

WaitingFTTH

Thanks everyone…….the universe is telling me go with the tried and tested ethernet option!

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546700#Comment_118546700

Definitely the easiest and cheapest option. No need to run fibre unless there are distances over 100m between the points or some electric/safety limitations. You won’t be needed Fritz 5530 for this anyway, just a couple media converters and tools for splicing/cutting fibre .

William_Flynn

Open Eir documents detail how they register a ONT to the network, so that would be a good place to start if you wanted to substitute your own.

Just remember you need to use the correct SFP type.

• GPON for rural fibre network (more than 2 years ago)
• XGS-GPON for the newer urban installs (last two years)

ED E

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544626#Comment_118544626

Interesting.

Even for larger SMEs the motivations to remove the OE ONT are limited. BBU? Plug her in. Its not large/hot. The only real reason I could see is if a large customer had an outdoors solution they wanted to use, femtocells/monitoring points etc. where space could be premium.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544154#Comment_118544154

+1

For all intents and purposes it's a media converter. There is nothing to optimise.

ONT serial number is locked to a particular fibre port. So you can't swap them. Besides you'd need specialist cleaning tools.

It's Huawei kit at both ends too. (so even if your kit worked it would flag the Chinese to start spying on you :pac:)