Mindfulness and lack of compassion

Smart Bug

Has anyone noticed that people what bang on about practising mindfulness are usually the nastiest people you’ll encounter, and who display a basic lack of compassion for others?

It has been my experience that those individuals, especially in positions of perceived power, that profess and practice mindfulness seem to do so only with regard to self compassion and seem to easily and willingly (and often needlessly) f*ck others at will

sheesh

no. but mindfulness is about learning to be aware of how the individual is feeling in the moment and would not necessarily make anyone a better person. Mindfulness as far as I can see is used by people with anxiety or stress so maybe that is why they are a little tetchy

One eyed Jack

Ahh I think it’s more like people who bang on incessantly about anything are generally self-centred up their own arse types. It could be mindfulness, social justice, whatever, but I wouldn’t correlate being self-centred and up their own arse with being malicious and having a tendency to want to fcuk people over.

Some people are just thoughtless and don’t intentionally lack consideration for other people, and some people are intentionally nasty individuals who as you suggest love nothing more than fcuking people over for their own gain.

branie2

Psychopaths, in other words

BDI

People who go on about stuff either want to sell you stuff or brag about stuff or just talk about what they are interested in and can’t care about other people’s interests.

When people ask you questions it’s usually so that you then ask them questions and they can talk about how great they are, how smart they are or sell you something.

If they want to talk about how great they are or how smart they are let them, then sell them something.

That’s the first thing all good salesmen learn.

Smart Bug

Smart Bug wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that people what bang on about practising mindfulness are usually the nastiest people you’ll encounter, and who display a basic lack of compassion for others?

I too have noticed a strong correlation between people who "bang on" about pretty much anything - especially out of nowhere when it is a complete nonsequitur to the current conversation - and being generally an ass with little compassion or self awareness.

Even on boards you can see the difference between people who pop up in threads on subjects that interest them and discuss them at length - and people who will pop up on _any_ thread and find ways to force their "bang on" topic into the conversation. If you want to discuss - say - travelers or meditation at length and do so on threads related to that topic great. But the people who go into any thread at all to find a way to ride in with - and hitch up their - personal hobby horse. Well they are a different kettle entirely.

To your question though. A correlation between people who practice actual meditation and lack of compassion however I have never seen. The exact opposite in fact. Many meditation practices in fact support and nurture empathy and compassion. When you attain some of the goals of meditation - such as the feeling of dissolution of the self - it tends to impact your empathy and compassion in quite meaningful ways. Similar experiences will often be reported by people using things like MDMA for example.

I noticed recently that one of the people who first got me into the whole area of meditation did a Ted Talk once. And during it while talking about the plight of some girls he very noticeably started to come to the point of tears and had to struggle on because of the very strict time constraints Ted Talks work with. The man has been accused of many things over the years. Lack of compassion so far to my knowledge has never been one of them.

So perhaps what you are noticing is just asshats who know meditation is a current fad and want to be "seen to be doing it" and want as many people as possible to know they are doing it. Which is very different from someone who is actually practising it and getting the benefits from it.

For some number of years now I have been doing a guided meditation group here in the Maynooth area. I sometimes put up ads - usually in the college - to get people to come along but it is so over subscribed I only have to do that periodically. And pretty much all the people who come to it - especially regularly - I have to say are the nicest people I have met in my life.

Some genuinely interested in Meditation for it's own sake. Others with life issues they hope it will assist them with. I have one recovered/recoving alcoholic and one guy who tried many things for anger management - who have been coming a long time and genuinely reporting deep benefits from it. I have also had a cop and a priest in training and some other interesting characters who found it benefited their life and career in various ways.

Compassion issues I can not say any of them have. Quite the opposite. Many of them have an over abundance of it.

ollkiller

The few people i know who practice this seem reasonable enough. Like anything some sound people and some assholes.

One thing from it in that you should live in the present is probably the best advice you could ever get. Everyone is working towards something all the time. Forgetting to enjoy the now.

PinotNero

Smart Bug wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that people what bang on about practising mindfulness are usually the nastiest people you’ll encounter, and who display a basic lack of compassion for others?

It has been my experience that those individuals, especially in positions of perceived power, that profess and practice mindfulness seem to do so only with regard to self compassion and seem to easily and willingly (and often needlessly) f*ck others at will

Aongus von Bismarck?

JohnnyFlash

Aongus is mad into the mindfulness and you couldn’t accuse him of lacking compassion. The dude cares too much.

nkl12xtw5goz70

People have always cultivated socially acceptable personae to hide their nasty, malignant sides.

Men have historically tended to go for the confident, charismatic approach, while women cultivated a "sweetness-and-light" image.

This new trend towards being mindful, socially conscious, concerned about climate change, "woke," etc., is all just a version of this. It's projecting what they think will win them admiration or acceptance.

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing people rhapsodize about "being present" when they spend half the day glued to their phones.

silverharp

there is always some buzzword, going back a bit everyone was banging on about Emotional Intelligence and for the life of me my only picture of it was that it was meant to comfort people who weren't actually intelligent but had some skills in manipulating people.

nthclare

Some of the most narcissistic sociopathic and psychotic people I know are supposedly spiritual or portray they're spiritual.

12 step programs like AA and treatment centers spawn a lot of this behaviour, people who get caught up in Buddhism and new age woo usually use the universe to explain their wrongs and if that's what happened or if they're nasty ****ers.
It's because they handed their will and life at the mercy of the universe, so any outcome of their cluster B personality is good in the eye's of the universe.

I steer clear of this waffle because it's dangerous, lacks humanity and excuses these cretens hostility, control issues and lack of responsibile behaviour.

It's very cult like

OldRio

IMHO. The people who use meditation and Buddhism are very grounded and sound.

The people who go on and on about how it changed their life are a pain. Usually with these type it's a fad.

Cyclepath

OldRio wrote: »

IMHO. The people who use meditation and Buddhism are very grounded and sound.

The people who go on and on about how it changed their life are a pain. Usually with these type it's a fad.

+1 . And like any discipline, how you practice is completely determined by how you well you studied, or were taught.

It actually has changed my life, but it took several years to study and practice for all of the essential tenets to take root and start affecting my behaviour. This is probably the reason that I don't 'evangelize'.

Also, although a large part of the compassion component is self-compassion, that's only a starting point so that you can then turn the compassion outward (in the same way as loving someone else can be improved by first learning to love yourself).

I'm especially suspicious when a company's HR gets involved in mindfulness and places twee little signs around encouraging you to practice without even a hint of training.

If anyone ever starts to bore you with mindfulness, ask them how long they've studied, and practiced, and where they learned the core tenets.

nothing is real, all is illusion

nobody is their projection of themselves

nobody is your projection of them

letting your projection of other people get to you is not healthy or constructive behaviour

float like a leaf in the river baby

Ask them what authority awarded them their certification. Where they studied. What organizations they are affiliated with.

Many many charlatans going around peddling mindfulness.

I meditate regularly at twice a day (morning & evening). Mindfulness doesn't necessarily equate to what the OP is suggesting, instead it's being aware of what's happening within and around you on a deeper level.

As for showing compassion, i find that people who complain about it's lack in others are either A) complaining that others are not showing enough to meet a quota or virtue signalling. Either way, they're projecting their own standards on to other people, standards that they rarely meet themselves.

I'm very aware of those around me. I always have due to a focus on developing my communication skills, and body language awareness. Studying psychology as an adult brought me closer to the awareness of other people, coupled with the meditation I engage in, which is very much about self-examination. Examining the motives and emotions behind everything i engage myself in, and the motives of those I encounter.

Still... I feel no need to step up to the levels of compassion, sympathy or empathy that the OP suggests. I'm compassionate to the people I interact with. Those beyond that scope are essentially non-entities until they gain a measure of importance.

There is too much emphasis on our modern society to spend emotional energy on causes and people who have no relationship to ourselves, and more importantly, no actual value to our lives. It's good to be selfish, and consider both your own needs and the needs of your important relationships over that of strangers.

nthclare

OldRio wrote: »

IMHO. The people who use meditation and Buddhism are very grounded and sound.

The people who go on and on about how it changed their life are a pain. Usually with these type it's a fad.

Russell Brands comes to mind, he's really coining it on people's vunerabilities.

Tony EH

Smart Bug wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that people what bang on about practising mindfulness are usually the nastiest people you’ll encounter

"Mindfulness" just makes arseholes into bigger arseholes usually.

demanding to see other people's mindfulness qualifications is one of the strangest things i think ive ever heard

_Brian

Smart Bug wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that people what bang on about practising mindfulness are usually the nastiest people you’ll encounter, and who display a basic lack of compassion for others?

It has been my experience that those individuals, especially in positions of perceived power, that profess and practice mindfulness seem to do so only with regard to self compassion and seem to easily and willingly (and often needlessly) f*ck others at will

No, I would find the opposite.

Fenster

Mindfulness is an excellent tool for mental health, once you come around to grasp what it really means. It helps me with all my fun mental scars when they come rearing up to attack me. Identify the thought, work through it, blah, you get the idea. The people who preach it out loud can be kinda shallow.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

nothing is real, all is illusion

nobody is their projection of themselves

nobody is your projection of them

letting your projection of other people get to you is not healthy or constructive behaviour

float like a leaf in the river baby

Bobblehats

Mind yourself / mind how you go.

Bobblehats

Tony EH wrote: »

"Mindfulness" just makes arseholes into bigger arseholes usually.

Mind the gap

/gape sorry.

strawdog

I think there's an interesting debate around mindfulness at the moment which kind of touches on OP's point. On the face of it, it is a good thing in and of itself, for all the reasons people usually give eg it helps people come back to themselves, live in the moment, reduce anxiety. But it does seem to have been hijacked by a lot of big companies and organisations who have seen it as a good way of quelling a nervy, overworked, over-stressed staff. Instead of the environment or the structures being at fault, no its because you're not mindful enough, and maybe if you can just learn to take some time to become aware of your surroundings and breathe you won't end up out on sick leave for a few weeks or quitting due to stress.

In summation its something that does seem to be effective and help a lot of people but, like a lot of things, it can be used for both good and bad reasons

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

strawdog wrote: »

I think there's an interesting debate around mindfulness at the moment which kind of touches on OP's point. On the face of it, it is a good thing in and of itself, for all the reasons people usually give eg it helps people come back to themselves, live in the moment, reduce anxiety. But it does seem to have been hijacked by a lot of big companies and organisations who have seen it as a good way of quelling a nervy, overworked, over-stressed staff. Instead of the environment or the structures being at fault, no its because you're not mindful enough, and maybe if you can just learn to take some time to become aware of your surroundings and breathe you won't end up out on sick leave for a few weeks or quitting due to stress.

In summation its something that does seem to be effective and help a lot of people but, like a lot of things, it can be used for both good and bad reasons

Any commercialisation of mindfulness is a corruption. It completely misses the point of it.

GP's are essentially under qualified to diagnose and prescribe mental health medication (in my opinion). Anybody that presents to a GP with a mental health difficulty should be immediately referred on to a team of psychologists and psychiatrists. With 10% of the Irish population on anti depressants we should really be doing so much more in this area.

Most research conclusively shows that talking therapies such as CBT is as effective, if not more effective than taking medication. Especially over the long term. I can give a lot of solid sources for this information.

I'd have no issue with having 10% of our population permanently medicated if there were zero side effects. But impotence, weight gain and increased suicide risks are not trivial in the least. (especially when you are dealing with an already 'vulnerable' group)

Mindfulness fits in very well with a holistic approach to anybody that wants to improve their mental well being. In conjunction with a psychologist and psychiatrist people can become better more quickly and comprehensively.
Throw in a nutritionists, occupational therapists, addiction councilors, therapy groups, life coaches, all working in tandem as part of the same team; I think a lot of people could really improve their mental health.

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

nothing is real, all is illusion

nobody is their projection of themselves

nobody is your projection of them

letting your projection of other people get to you is not healthy or constructive behaviour

float like a leaf in the river baby

And when the Lord finished this sermon, many who were gathered there went without. The Lord asked his disciples to bring forth what they had and lo there were only two yokes and five ten-spots. The Lord took them in hand and raised his eyes to heaven giving thanks. Yeah verily I say unto thee, the multitude of 4000 got off their heads that afternoon before the Lord.

topper75

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Mindfulness fits in very well with a holistic approach ...
Throw in a nutritionists, occupational therapists, addiction councilors, therapy groups, life coaches, all working in tandem as part of the same team; I think a lot of people could really improve their mental health.

Jaysus some list! €€€€
The 'not feeling the best today' industrial complex.

Widdershins

No...I have noticed that some people are self absorbed, thoughtless and ungrateful and never seem to know when they have a good thing going... and they could do with trying mindfulness. It's like anything, some people are just false and have ulterior motives for advertising whatever their beliefs/practises are ( and they're not genuine heartfelt beliefs). There's talking the talk and walking the walk.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

topper75 wrote: »

Jaysus some list! €€€€
The 'not feeling the best today' industrial complex.

I know. I gave an idealised version of mental healthcare that's not very likely to happen.

There is a fair chance that it could save money for the state though. Someone would have to crunch the numbers.

Widdershins

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Any commercialisation of mindfulness is a corruption. It completely misses the point of it.

GP's are essentially under qualified to diagnose and prescribe mental health medication (in my opinion). Anybody that presents to a GP with a mental health difficulty should be immediately referred on to a team of psychologists and psychiatrists. With 10% of the Irish population on anti depressants we should really be doing so much more in this area.

Most research conclusively shows that talking therapies such as CBT is as effective, if not more effective than taking medication. Especially over the long term. I can give a lot of solid sources for this information.

I'd have no issue with having 10% of our population permanently medicated if there were zero side effects. But impotence, weight gain and increased suicide risks are not trivial in the least. (especially when you are dealing with an already 'vulnerable' group)

Mindfulness fits in very well with a holistic approach to anybody that wants to improve their mental well being. In conjunction with a psychologist and psychiatrist people can become better more quickly and comprehensively.
Throw in a nutritionists, occupational therapists, addiction councilors, therapy groups, life coaches, all working in tandem as part of the same team; I think a lot of people could really improve their mental health.

Well, GPs do have to refer for counselling before they can prescribe any medication for a mental illness. As I understand it.

nthclare

Mindfulness is ok when it's needed and people become more self aware.

For some it's addictive, especially people who have addictive personalities exe alcoholics and drug addicts.

I knew one poor misfortune who started off light, listening to Louise L Hay Anthony de Mellow etc

Someone lately told me he's now a strident Christian and is getting quite into the puritan version of the church of England.

So he went from being an alcoholic in recovery threading the world lightly, now he's born again and a right right winger...

Why can't they all think like Renton at the end of trainspotting