Councillor gets social and housing sorted. Met with protests.

Boggles

BattleCorp wrote: »

It appears to be a growing minority that is increasingly costly to look after them.

That would be pensioners.

The people who made it possible for you to attend school and everything else you took for granted.

Eric Cartman

Boggles wrote: »

That would be pensioners.

The people who made it possible for you to attend school and everything else you took for granted.

pensioner numbers increasing
those who work arent having kids / having less than 2 kids
those who have never worked having all the children
migrants who dont work re-unifying their familes who dont work and having more kids who dont work.

we're literally going to fall off a cliff when the net contributor to net recipient quota drops and we're speeding towards that.

maxsmum

Eric Cartman wrote: »

pensioner numbers increasing
those who work arent having kids / having less than 2 kids
those who have never worked having all the children
migrants who dont work re-unifying their familes who dont work and having more kids who dont work.

we're literally going to fall off a cliff when the net contributor to net recipient quota drops and we're speeding towards that.

Sad thing is I'm a professional who'd love to have more kids but can't afford childcare! And my kids would likely be good taxpayers too!

NasserShammaz

maxsmum wrote: »

Sad thing is I'm a professional who'd love to have more kids but can't afford childcare! And my kids would likely be good taxpayers too!

In a different country hopefully and not another generation funding an other generation I'll of parasites

AulWan

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I know a few single mothers on HAP after their Ex's ****ed off and left them raising their kid(s) 5/6 days of the week.
It's a miserable and lonely existence, they have one night a week they can get out if they're lucky and have money. Some of them work part time when their kids are in school (hard to get this kind of work). They're not skangers etc, just normal people that haven't had a great run. They'd be lucky if they got to talk face to face to another adult in any given week.

I get they feel they need their own space, especially with kids. But for young mothers in particular, I genuinely feel they'd be better off living at home with their parents. Having on site/at home/on premises (or whatever you want to call it) support from family is very beneficial. It gives the woman a chance to get back on her feet, get a good job, go back to college, bit more free time, more money, etc.

I know a few single mothers that are living at home too, and there's absolutely no question that women living with their parents are far happier.

I have to disagree with this point. While it all sounds great in theory, in my experience when you have two women (mother and daughter) living in the same house raising a child (grandchild) it rarely goes well, long term. Difference in parenting styles or rows over discipline of older children, can cause major issues and tension. What Ive seen happen is grandmother ends up taking over and mother has to defer to her own mother when it comes to making decisions for their own child - it rarely ends on good terms.

Also, not all grandparents want , or have room, for a grandchild to live with them.

I still lived at home when I had my first and I moved out by the time they were 3 months old as I'd seen the above happen to some of my friends and I knew I wanted there to be absolutely no confusion in my child's mind, as to who was Mother and who was Grandmother. Luckily I was able to buy, but I'd tell any single parent to try and move out of their parents' houses as soon as they can manage it.

Effects

maxsmum wrote: »

If you work in town in public service, and you're below the income limit, these houses should be earmarked for you.

Sorry, can't agree with that. I know people who work in the public service who are the some of laziest people I know. One of them even takes the max number of sick days that she can, just because it's available to take. Something like 183 days in a four year period.
People like that shouldn't be rewarded because they took a safe, easy job.

Raconteuse

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah the Vienna model is excellent.

Germanic societies tend to be ones though where "social" is literal - people are aware that it's not just about them, they are part of a larger jigsaw and so they pull together, resulting in top quality public services and amenities.

In this country though, it's just "give ME all the stuff for nothing" under the *pretence* of social good. Very individualist. Seems more like capitalism to me.

end of the road

BattleCorp wrote: »

I know I'll be shot down for having this opinion but I'd be well p1ssed off if I worked my balls off for years and paid top dollar for one of those houses and someone got one for pretty much free beside me.

sure, but the reality is that there will always be situations where someone will get a better deal on a house.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

even being beside an 'affordable' house (if it was to the same standard) would piss me off , but the idea of one of the 'non affordable' units even sharing a stairwell or courtyard with the social houses would turn my stomach.

that is exactly why mixed developments of all walks of life is a good policy and should continue. force out the classism, self entitlement and thinking you are better then or above someone else just because of the amount of money you have or the status of your living arrangements.

lola85 wrote: »

I’m quite happy with hotels and houses rented out by private landlords to house these people.

Honestly they don’t deserve a house for pittance while we subsidize our own mortgage and theirs.

If they want better then better themselves first.

Survival of the fittest and all that.

survival of the fittest doesn't work.
i don't get why you are happy to be spending a massive amount of money on hotels and subsidizing private land lords because a small few people you don't like might get something. dispite the fact that something different would likely benefit a lot more people, people who just need a dig out.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the state has to bottle (vodka) feed them from cradle to grave or its not good enough. Free house, free legal aid, free school clothes and books, free everything and absolutely no personal responsibility.

plenty of people benefit from free legal aid.
a vital tool to insure access to fair and representative justice for those who need it.

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

sure with All this talk of sustainability etc, doesn’t it make sense that the skangers live in central locations and workers drive up here from Roscommon ?

We keep on hearing about the dying of rural Ireland. Relocate the skangers there , they’ll be relatively isolated not causing nuisance to multiple neighbors in an apartment and the local economy can thrive , with the billions wasted on bookies , takeaways and pubs ! Huge demand then for welfare Wednesday post offices and to reopen closed Garda stations !

Are the social and affordable in the same or different blocks ? Assuming privaye one’s are in their own block ?!

yeah, how much are my taxes possibly increasing to pay for this cleansing/jerry mandering nonsense?
rural ireland is dying for a reason, turning it into a dumping ground won't regenerate it, it will just be a repeat of what we already tried, probably on a more expensive scale.
what billions are being wasted on bookies, takeaways and pubs?

Idbatterim wrote: »

Simple. No leaving cert , no welfare. A welfare system based on what you paid in too. No contributions, no welfare. Cut it off totally after a period.

so how much more will we have to pay in taxes to deal with the fallout from this?

Idbatterim wrote: »

And take responsibility? And work hard to improve their own situation? Don’t be absurd! Mad talk !

it is when you and those of your viewpoint would be the first to refuse to employ these people if they came to you for a job i would suspect.

Calhoun

Great to see the shine coming off old Gary after the local election debacle in his party.

Horsebox9000

Raconteuse wrote: »

Germanic societies tend to be ones though where "social" is literal - people are aware that it's not just about them, they are part of a larger jigsaw and so they pull together, resulting in top quality public services and amenities.

In this country though, it's just "give ME all the stuff for nothing" under the *pretence* of social good. Very individualist. Seems more like capitalism to me.

This x100000000
My partner is German and works in social services here and she couldn't believe how self centred many of the people she encountered here have been. She's worked in this field in a few countries and says Ireland is definitely unique and not for good reasons

Horsebox9000

Calhoun wrote: »

Great to see the shine coming off old Gary after the local election debacle in his party.

Geniunely this made me respect him more. He stepped up and got something sorted. By no means perfect but isn't there a housing crisis. So surely something is better than nothing at this rate.

Could you tell me why you think this takes the shine of him.

Raconteuse

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

This x100000000
My partner is German and works in social services here and she couldn't believe how self centred many of the people she encountered here have been. She's worked in this field in a few countries and says Ireland is definitely unique and not for good reasons

To be fair, I think it's an Anglophone rather than Irish thing. It is dreadful here though. Something that puts me off this society.

Topgear on Dave

I genuinely agree that something being done with this site is far better than nothing.

But Gary and the Doc+Dems have always been loud on social media, criticising other parties decisions and putting themselves out there as the bestest, wokest, most high-horsed progressive socialists you can find.

So I am amused that they now have taken a controversial decision and they are getting a bit of blowback for it.

Calhoun

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

This x100000000
My partner is German and works in social services here and she couldn't believe how self centred many of the people she encountered here have been. She's worked in this field in a few countries and says Ireland is definitely unique and not for good reasons

Aren't the German's fairly notorious for keeping a fairly stable balance sheet to the detriment of public service?

Additionally it would be allot easier to pull together on our public services if we didn't have so much waste and actually got decent services.

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

Geniunely this made me respect him more. He stepped up and got something sorted. By no means perfect but isn't there a housing crisis. So surely something is better than nothing at this rate.

Could you tell me why you think this takes the shine of him.

I would say its because he has tapped into a voter that doesn't like corporate/developer side of things and this has shown hes not exactly the socialist man of the people.

He is not someone id like in government at any level after the local election stunt.

Horsebox9000

Calhoun wrote: »

Aren't the German's fairly notorious for keeping a fairly stable balance sheet to the detriment of public service?

Additionally it would be allot easier to pull together on our public services if we didn't have so much waste and actually got decent services.



I would say its because he has tapped into a voter that doesn't like corporate/developer side of things and this has shown hes not exactly the socialist man of the people.

He is not someone id like in government at any level after the local election stunt.

1. You'll have to ask the Germans.

2. Isn't he in the social democrats and part of being in democracy is about making compromises?
If the voter you speak of were people in the initial protest video then can we really call them voters?
I don't like corporate / developer side of things myseld but I also like housing being built. The faux outrage on this is baffling to me. If this is the reaction from people on things like this then why bother offer any social / affordable housing at all

Calhoun

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

1. You'll have to ask the Germans.

2. Isn't he in the social democrats and part of being in democracy is about making compromises?
If the voter you speak of were people in the initial protest video then can we really call them voters?
I don't like corporate / developer side of things myseld but I also like housing being built. The faux outrage on this is baffling to me. If this is the reaction from people on things like this then why bother offer any social / affordable housing at all

I am not his core voter, there was a time i thought the social democrats would have been worth a vote due to the party leaders but not anymore.

I would assume the people he is targeting want the old model of council only built houses as opposed to any developer. This is the demographic he dialed into so thats why he got the response.

Boggles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

pensioner numbers increasing
those who work arent having kids / having less than 2 kids
those who have never worked having all the children
migrants who dont work re-unifying their familes who dont work and having more kids who dont work.

we're literally going to fall off a cliff when the net contributor to net recipient quota drops and we're speeding towards that.

Migrant work participation rates are higher than the natives.

Ireland has one of the highest fertility rates in the EU.

If we want people to have more kids we have to make it more feasible, i.e an increase in social protection and affordable homes.

Gatling

Boggles wrote: »

Migrant work participation rates are higher than the natives.


If we want people to have more kids we have to make it more feasible, i.e an increase in social protection and affordable homes.

Not really possible in some cases but others have higher unemployment rates as you know from other threads

Increase social protections so basically tax the taxpayers even more for the few the welfare budget is already at 20billion a year

LillySV

Boggles wrote: »

Migrant work participation rates are higher than the natives.

Ireland has one of the highest fertility rates in the EU.

If we want people to have more kids we have to make it more feasible, i.e an increase in social protection and affordable homes.

Increase welfare will only encourage more vermin ... if they want more kids that will work, cut back on the welfare privileged and provide more subsidized childcare for workers

Boggles

Gatling wrote: »

Increase social protections so basically tax the taxpayers even more for the few the welfare budget is already at 20billion a year

Social protection is not for the few, over 2 million people avail of it.

Eric Cartman

Boggles wrote: »

Migrant work participation rates are higher than the natives.

Ireland has one of the highest fertility rates in the EU.

If we want people to have more kids we have to make it more feasible, i.e an increase in social protection and affordable homes.

Convert child benefit to a tax credit , introduce a childcare tax credit and thatll flip the tables on that.

That ‘migrant participation rate’ is a myth, thise stats count people brought in to work. Migrants coming from outside the EU excluding the US have infinitely lower participation rates than irish workers

Boggles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

That ‘migrant participation rate’ is a myth, thise stats count people brought in to work. Migrants coming from outside the EU excluding the US have infinitely lower participation rates than irish workers

Negative. Workers from outside the EU have a higher work participation rate than the national average.

Eric Cartman

Boggles wrote: »

Negative. Workers from outside the EU have a higher work participation rate than the national average.

Id love to see these figures please and a study that breaks apart eu and non eu migrants please because every study ive found says non eu migrants are net receivers from the economy, african migrants boast a 78% unemplpyment rate and those in DP cant work

Beta Ray Bill

LillySV wrote: »

Increase welfare will only encourage more vermin ... if they want more kids that will work, cut back on the welfare privileged and provide more subsidized childcare for workers

I'm sorry, but that is a disgusting way to refer to children.
They're just kids, it's not their fault they were born into that.

Childcare is so expensive in Ireland because of insurance, it's nothing to do with the wages of childcare workers themselves, they are paid sweet f**k all.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Convert child benefit to a tax credit , introduce a childcare tax credit and thatll flip the tables on that.

That's a good idea.
But it needs to be incentivised.
IE keep child benefit at X but make available a tax credit valued at X+Y, so you get more if you're working.

The childcare model in Ireland is a remnant of a time when the Catholic church ruled. IE It's the woman's job to look after the kids and it's the mans job to work and there is to be no kids outside of marriage.
This doctrine is completely incompatible with the way Ireland is today.
The way we think about parenting has to change.
In Nordic countries for example everything is usually (50/50) If a couple have kids and a house and the relationship breaks down, what they usually do is rent a 2nd 1 bed apartment between them, and rotate parenting duties, so the kids stay in their home.
This is so different to what we do here which is:
Man goes and works, has the kids on the weekend. Woman goes on the HAP, or council house or homeless list or what ever you want to call it, because there is no way she can earn enough to pay for childcare, a house, food etc

I think it's also important to remember that there isn't a €50k P/A job for everyone.
There are jobs out there that just don't pay that, yet the middle class use the service they provide heavily (Fast food is a great example of this)

Boggles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Id love to see these figures please and a study that breaks apart eu and non eu migrants please because every study ive found says non eu migrants are net receivers from the economy,

Which studies?

My figures are coming from the CSO.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

african migrants boast a 78% unemplpyment rate and those in DP cant work

Hang on now, you said all migrants apart from Americans outside the EU.

Now you are focusing on asylum seekers and refugees I guess from Africa?

Sneaky shift of goal posts to go down deplorable avenue. Tut Tut.

African participation rates are about 45%, The Irish are up around 66%.

The new study from the Economic and Social Research Institute has examined how well migrants are settling in the country.

It has found that 16% of Africans living in Ireland are out of work, compared with 4% of people from western European countries.

The employment rate for Africans in Ireland was also very low at 45%, while 66% of Irish nationals were working.

Eric Cartman

Boggles wrote: »

Which studies?

My figures are coming from the CSO.



Hang on now, you said all migrants apart from Americans outside the EU.

Now you are focusing on asylum seekers and refugees I guess from Africa?

Sneaky shift of goal posts to go down deplorable avenue. Tut Tut.

African participation rates are about 45%, The Irish are up around 66%.

Ok can you show me the CSO figures that split EU and non EU migrants and show me a higher labour participation rate among non eu

Eric Cartman

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that is a disgusting way to refer to children.
They're just kids, it's not their fault they were born into that.

Childcare is so expensive in Ireland because of insurance, it's nothing to do with the wages of childcare workers themselves, they are paid sweet f**k all.



That's a good idea.
But it needs to be incentivised.
IE keep child benefit at X but make available a tax credit valued at X+Y, so you get more if you're working.

The childcare model in Ireland is a remnant of a time when the Catholic church ruled. IE It's the woman's job to look after the kids and it's the mans job to work and there is to be no kids outside of marriage.
This doctrine is completely incompatible with the way Ireland is today.
The way we think about parenting has to change.
In Nordic countries for example everything is usually (50/50) If a couple have kids and a house and the relationship breaks down, what they usually do is rent a 2nd 1 bed apartment between them, and rotate parenting duties, so the kids stay in their home.
This is so different to what we do here which is:
Man goes and works, has the kids on the weekend. Woman goes on the HAP, or council house or homeless list or what ever you want to call it, because there is no way she can earn enough to pay for childcare, a house, food etc

I think it's also important to remember that there isn't a €50k P/A job for everyone.
There are jobs out there that just don't pay that, yet the middle class use the service they provide heavily (Fast food is a great example of this)

Child benefit is an income stream at the moment, we need to convert it entirely to tax credits to stop the unemployed having kids and encourage only those who work to have children.

Boggles

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ok can you show me the CSO figures that split EU and non EU migrants and show me a higher labour participation rate among non eu

I never claimed that.

You claimed.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Migrants coming from outside the EU excluding the US have infinitely lower participation rates than irish workers

I will gladly provide you with the CSO link once you back up your claims, particularly the one above, it's only fair since you have made multiple claims first without citation.

Eric Cartman

Boggles wrote: »

I never claimed that.

You claimed.



I will gladly provide you with the CSO link once you back up your claims, particularly the one above, it's only fair since you have made multiple claims first without citation.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp11eoi/cp11eoi/lfnmfl/


And it indicates that nigerian, indian, bangladesh and arab immigrants have far higher unemployment rates than irish or eu migrants.