Rats in extension ceiling

Rainbowray

Hi,
We are at our wits end and not sure what else to do. We have rats in the attic ceiling of a kitchen extension. The extension was built in 2016. We noticed loud scratching in March this year in the ceiling of the extension, generally in the same areas. My absolute worst fears were confirmed by an exterminator who said, yep they're rats.
He said get the drains inspected. The drain guys came in and said our builders hadn't capped off the new drains and also there was a crack in the drains. They carried out remedial work and said now it's a matter of just catching what are in the cavity walls. Well that didn't work cos they were still coming in.
My husband looked at photos from the build and saw three holes near pipes that the builders hadn't filled. He pulled up the patio and filled in the holes. That was June and not a peep till now. They are back, probably because the weather has been cold.
Patio pulled back up and checked. Nothing to report, all looks ok.
The exterminator was all out of ideas.
We are in a terraced house. Both neighbours either side have no problems so it seems isolated to us.
My husband also caught a few under the floor but they seem to favour the ceiling. He has cameras up there so can see to a point where they are hanging out. We just can't figure out how they are getting in.
We're about 2k down and no closer to solving this problem.
Any suggestions.
Thanks

Sleeper12

The only advice is to find how they are getting in. This might require rent a kill or some such company. It does not really matter if they are in the attic or basement. They will eventually have in your house.

Rainbowray

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The only advice is to find how they are getting in. This might require rent a kill or some such company. It does not really matter if they are in the attic or basement. They will eventually have in your house.

Thanks very much. We contacted rentokil to see if there was anything more we could do or they could do. They said there was nothing else they could suggest and they are not allowed break in walls etc. They offered my husband a job when he detailed all that he has done to solve the problem!! Pest control from what I can see will just trap and poison them but are not so good at helping finding their routes in.
The pest control guy we got in who we paid 300 euro to said that it's the drains. The drain guys who we paid the guts of 700 to said the drains are now tickety boo.
I guess I'm on this forum to see if anyone has had a similar experience and could offer any sort of guidance. At the moment it feels a bit hopeless.

Sleeper12

Rainbowray wrote: »

Thanks very much. We contacted rentokil to see if there was anything more we could do or they could do. They said there was nothing else they could suggest and they are not allowed break in walls etc. They offered my husband a job when he detailed all that he has done to solve the problem!! Pest control from what I can see will just trap and poison them but are not so good at helping finding their routes in.
The pest control guy we got in who we paid 300 euro to said that it's the drains. The drain guys who we paid the guts of 700 to said the drains are now tickety boo.
I guess I'm on this forum to see if anyone has had a similar experience and could offer any sort of guidance. At the moment it feels a bit hopeless.

You have spent a lot of money to end up where you started. Onof my biggest fears in life are rats. I feel your pain

Irishphotodesk

Try to get your hands on a warfarin tablet or two, screw it into the wood in the area they are hanging out, ensure your water tank in the attic is completely sealed.

It's important you do not physically touch the tablet with your skin, wear latex gloves or some other disposable gloves.

The tablet is pink and around the size of one of those toilet tablets that you might see in a public urinal.

As regards sourcing the tablet... Best of luck, they are hard to get, we have to ask the father in law to source it.

Twister2

you need to be firing up loads of poison for now while they can get in

Seth Brundle

They're getting in and out somehow to get food and water.
Keep looking!

Twister2

isn't there a non-return flap u can get for the drains

Rainbowray

Yeah the drain guys fit the non return flap.

There are traps and poison up in the ceiling. He has about 4 cameras up there too and one underfloor fixed on the traps so he knows if there is one in a trap and he doesn't have to keep opening up to check. It is quite the surveillance operation.

Since March he has caught about 8 or 9.

We don't know where else to look. We've had a builder out to inspect the flat roof, downpipes etc and another to check the holes have been properly filled. All checks out ok.

I have now suggested lifting the floorboards but that is money we don't have. We bloody just laid new floors.

I guess there is no real solution. They could be getting in anywhere.

e.r

Ferrets normally sort this problem

Deagol

I had a similar problem with rats getting into our attic. I eventually found out that where our kitchen extension was built (prior to us buying the house) - the builder had not backfilled the foundations on our neighbours side of the extension (one external wall abuts our neighbours garden).

The rats where going down into the foundations and then up through the cavity to the top and then into the attic space.

I got a local builder to fill in and pave the area and problem solved. Not sure if that's any help OP but hopefully someone give some hint that helps!!

Rainbowray

e.r wrote: »

Ferrets normally sort this problem

Yeah I have heard this. The thought makes me sick if I'm honest. If we put a ferret up there I think I will walk out and never come back😂

antoinolachtnai

There is a gap somewhere. They are getting up through a duct or something.

They’re not there because you are nice people. They have some source of food and/or water that they are using your house to get to.

I would be inclined to check the walls between you and the neighboring houses as well.

I have had good success with packing gaps and holes and ducts with steel wool (get it in the hardware store). They really don’t like it and won’t try to dig it out. They may well be using your house as a way to get to the neighboring house. Neighbours aren’t always aware or for that matter truthful about rats.

Keep at it. I do have a name for you of someone who is experienced and knowledgeable if you can’t get any progress, PM me if you are still stuck.

I know this is all expensive but if it is any comfort, work like what you have done, fixing drains and making sure every small hole is plugged, is the best money you can spend to protect your investment.

I think you are right not to pull up the floor. It really should not be necessary. You will get them.

Rainbowray

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is a gap somewhere. They are getting up through a duct or something.

They’re not there because you are nice people. They have some source of food and/or water that they are using your house to get to.

I would be inclined to check the walls between you and the neighboring houses as well.

I have had good success with packing gaps and holes and ducts with steel wool (get it in the hardware store). They really don’t like it and won’t try to dig it out. They may well be using your house as a way to get to the neighboring house. Neighbours aren’t always aware or for that matter truthful about rats.

Keep at it. I do have a name for you of someone who is experienced and knowledgeable if you can’t get any progress, PM me if you are still stuck.

I know this is all expensive but if it is any comfort, work like what you have done, fixing drains and making sure every small hole is plugged, is the best money you can spend to protect your investment.

I think you are right not to pull up the floor. It really should not be necessary. You will get them.

I may take you up on that. Thanks very much.

Rainbowray

Deagol wrote: »

I had a similar problem with rats getting into our attic. I eventually found out that where our kitchen extension was built (prior to us buying the house) - the builder had not backfilled the foundations on our neighbours side of the extension (one external wall abuts our neighbours garden).

The rats where going down into the foundations and then up through the cavity to the top and then into the attic space.

I got a local builder to fill in and pave the area and problem solved. Not sure if that's any help OP but hopefully someone give some hint that helps!!

Thanks i'll mention that to my husband. I'm not sure what it means to be honest. He'll have more of a clue if that is something we need to look at.

peneau

Have you had your drains inspected by camera, by that I mean the full length of them ? We had a similar problem many years ago in my family home (a terraced house too) and the problem was a break in the pipe underground the rats were exiting the pipe at the break and finding their way into the ceiling of the kitchen extension between the main house and the extension.

Rainbowray

peneau wrote: »

Have you had your drains inspected by camera, by that I mean the full length of them ? We had a similar problem many years ago in my family home (a terraced house too) and the problem was a break in the pipe underground the rats were exiting the pipe at the break and finding their way into the ceiling of the kitchen extension between the main house and the extension.

Thanks very much. They examined the drains with cameras and then did a smoke test and said that it should be fine after they capped off where the builders had not.
I was just saying to my husband that maybe we should get another company in to check again, but that is another 500 plus without any remedial works, judging by what the last crowd charged. I feel at this point we are throwing good money after bad.

I want my husband to now pull down the plasterboard covering the rsj between the new and old part and see if there are any holes. I have a feeling this is going to be a long long road of trial and error

Seth Brundle

Have you spoken to your neighbours to see if they've heard any noises?

Bass Reeves

Check they are not climbing the wall some place, make sure there is no access along facia and soffit.
Only problem with poison is that any rat that takes it will die in the ceiling as they are living there. The smell will be horrendous.

However if you manage to clean them.out, poison can be used to keep them out. You need to put bail points around the garden along walls or coveted area's. Use 3'' plastic pipe about 24'' long, use wire ( called tying wire) to hold blocks in place..

When rats start to move in and change habit if they get sick they will return to there last habit to die.

Use a 2nd generation poison, Storm is a 1st generation poison. It takes multiple feeds to kill. 2nd generation poison will kill with one feed.

Check for access points between old house and extension. Is there a new footpath along rest of extension. There must be an access point that is accessi without too much borrowing

BorneTobyWilde

Probably mice, rats don't really go into houses. Mine can sound like rats when they run along a ceiling, and scratch.
I say you have a hole in the walls somewhere, you need to just look at ALL possible access points.
You'll be amazing at how many mice size holes you'll find, need to block them.

Stigura

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is a gap somewhere. Neighbours aren’t always aware or for that matter truthful about rats.

At last!


I'm retired. And I never like to attempt 'Remote Rat Catching'. Relying on second or third hand data, fed through a keyboard, is like trying to qualify for the Rangers, by playing COD.

Does no one use Tracking Powder any more? I had some newer stuff; Tiny, orange pellets. Rodents ate them. Then micturated their way. Urine track showed under a black light.

Rentokil?! Pfftt!!! Ye fell for That one, eh? :rolleyes:

Listen; Their guys are, potentially, some of the best trained out there. I'd never knock the red overalls. Only, they're being ridden by Sales Managers. Desk jockey bean counters. It's all about the time sheet and the add ons sold.

Anyway; Terraced property? Council's nightmare. The industry long since tumbled that rodents Will travel above and below.

As ye seem to reckon all ye drains (below) are sorted? I'd be looking above. Ye know they're there. Why they're there is their business. I'd be looking at How, and from Where, they're getting there.

Meanwhile, as I always said: " This is ye property. Beyond that fence is greater Leitrim. I can't kill every rat in Leitrim. Let's just concentrate on destroying any that broach your boundaries. " That was always my policy. Still use it to this day, at home.

No rats last, this side of my fences :cool:

Rainbowray

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Have you spoken to your neighbours to see if they've heard any noises?

Yes and apparently all clear. I can only take them at face value. I haven't seen them digging up patios so i am assuming they are being truthful.

Bass Reeves

Is the extension brick or block.and plaster. Is it a flat roof. Is there a tree or bush overhanging.or near the extension that is helping with access.

They must have good access and egress as rats need a water supply. OP has said her husband has trapped nearly 10 of them. Another option is to use blown rock wool or glass wool into the cavity of the new extension , it may help to stop access.

Rainbowray

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Probably mice, rats don't really go into houses. Mine can sound like rats when they run along a ceiling, and scratch.
I say you have a hole in the walls somewhere, you need to just look at ALL possible access points.
You'll be amazing at how many mice size holes you'll find, need to block them.

Definitley rats. My husband can vouch for that!! He has disposed of a few corpses and he sees them on the cameras. I can't bring myself to look

Rainbowray

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Is the extension brick or block.and plaster. Is it a flat roof. Is there a tree or bush overhanging.or near the extension that is helping with access.

They must have good access and egress as rats need a water supply. OP has said her husband has trapped nearly 10 of them. Another option is to use blown rock wool or glass wool into the cavity of the new extension , it may help to stop access.

Block and plaster with a flat roof.
No trees or bushes overhanging.
How would we even gonabout getting glass wool into the cavity wall?
We built on the boundary wall of one neighbours property but didn't get permission from the other neighbour to do so there is a gap between our extension and the boundary wall between our properties. Not sure if that is even pertinent.

Bass Reeves

Rainbowray wrote: »

Block and plaster with a flat roof.
No trees or bushes overhanging.
How would we even gonabout getting glass wool into the cavity wall?
We built on the boundary wall of one neighbours property but didn't get permission from the other neighbour to do so there is a gap between our extension and the boundary wall between our properties. Not sure if that is even pertinent.

If the builder was careless with drains.he was careless there. I suspect that is the access.point as Stigura posted use tracking powder ( never heard of it before but it will tell you if they are accessing there. How small/big is the gap. If it is very narrow a rat may use it as a climbing support. However I suspect that there is underground access.

If you can get them out keep poison at this point. Even try a trap at present to se if you trap them exiting at present to check if this is as the expression rat run

It try the camera so see if they are coming and going here

danny004

Cousin of mine had rats couldnt find where they were getting in and tried everything ,eventually they hired a guy with with a thermographic heat seeking camera and on a cold night this guy found a nest of them under the patio within an hour and from there the run to the house was fairly obvious.
Might be worth considering

Rainbowray

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If the builder was careless with drains.he was careless there. I suspect that is the access.point as Stigura posted use tracking powder ( never heard of it before but it will tell you if they are accessing there. How small/big is the gap. If it is very narrow a rat may use it as a climbing support. However I suspect that there is underground access.

If you can get them out keep poison at this point. Even try a trap at present to se if you trap them exiting at present to check if this is as the expression rat run

It try the camera so see if they are coming and going here

Thanks i'll get him on it!

scamalert

if you do lay poison etc, make sure you can locate them, store i worked in had issue with mice in kitchen ceiling each year, fcking awful smell once they start to rot for weeks, as no way to get em out.

RunRoryRun

Had a really similar experience for 6 months last year. Bought the house, moved in & started to get a really bad smell in the back bedroom. Took up the carpet & floorboards and found dead rats in traps cooking on some hot water pipes. Had to leave the bedroom empty for months to get rid of the smell. Previous owners had the problem, laid traps, put the boards back down with a new carpet & then moved out.

Could hear them above our bedroom in the attic every night. Put up traps & camera and checked them regularly. Got some of them but obviously they were still getting in.

Steps we took:
1. Checked every wall & pipe above ground. Filled in any small gaps around pipes etc.
2. Went to the drains & sewer. Filled in any space around pipes - even an inch thick.
3. Drain survey within the property boundary. There had been an extension and the original manhole outside the back door had been covered over by the extension. The pipe leading from this to the main line was now redundant as all the other drains were routed directly to it. We believe the builder just cracked the pipe and collapsed it, leaving the hole attaching old to main open. We think the rats were getting through this hole & burrowing through the in-fill into the fabric of the house. Sealed up the hole. No more noise.
4. Caught one more (very skinny) about 4 weeks later. He was on his own & we think had been trapped in the house when we sealed the drain.

It is a stressful & really miserable time. Unfortunately, it's all about perseverance. Try something - if it doesn't work, you at least know that it wasn't it and can move down the list of other possibilities. We worked with a really good guy in South Dublin, so if you're in the area PM me and I'll give you his details (he loves this stuff ).

Sorry you're going through this - I have nothing but sympathy for you and know exactly how you feel. Took us about 6 months & we were miserable for a lot of it.

Bass Reeves

Another access point may be along top of boundary wall onto roof and back under felt or coming direct from top of wall to access .ceiling space under flat roof. But more than likely you would have spotted it already