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Garda getting body cams

  • 31-10-2019 9:30am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21,656 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    I see the Irish Council for Civil Liberties are moaning this morning about the role out of body cams for gardai.

    I think it's great they are getting the cameras.

    It will be evidence in cases of the type of scum that needs dealing with on a daily basis but also will help bring more professionalism to the force.

    They have had great impact in the United States and some forces in GB that use them.

    In the US officers are routinely fired if they in any way try to tamper with the process of recording or inhibit recording.

    The cameras record audio and visual 100% of the time.

    I think this a real step forward for the Garda and justice system.

    The mind boggles how anyone could be against it.

    Really welcome.


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,656 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.wlrfm.com/2019/10/31/bodycams-for-gardai-could-infringe-rights-warns-iccl/

    See here.
    Most cameras can be switched on and off at an officer’s discretion, Ms Ansbro said, adding that “the assumption is that all police officers are honest”.

    This one from the ICCL claims officers can turn off cameras at will. They can not. That is a lie. For example it is illegal in the US to tamper with the functioning of the camera (i.e by covering it during a traffic stop). Hence as I have said police officers have been fired for doing so.

    And the rest of it - "have a 'chilling effect' on right to protest" - why? Unless protesters are knowingly breaking the law why would they care?
    Such cameras were first used in the US where their introduction was aimed at reducing instances of police brutality and racially-charged violence.

    However, that context is far removed from the Irish one, where the vast majority of police officers are unarmed, according to Doireann Ansbro, senior research and policy officer with the ICCL.

    Even more reason they should have the cameras to aid in their own protection against violence/prosecution.
    “They’re at close range with audio as well, and it has the potential to affect people’s behaviour, dictating where they go,”

    And!?!
    “There appears to be a lot of misinformation out there,” Ms Ansbro told the Irish Examiner.

    The only misinformation is coming from you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,843 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles


    This one from the ICCL claims officers can turn off cameras at will. They can not. That is a lie. For example it is illegal in the US to tamper with the functioning of the camera (i.e by covering it during a traffic stop). Hence as I have said police officers have been fired for doing so.

    Police in the US certainly have discretion of when to activate the camera or not, it's guidelines though not federal law AFAIK.

    I have never heard of a police officer been fired for not activating their camera or switching it off for that sole violation.

    I do remember reading about a case where a police officer killed someone, the camera wasn't on and he received a suspended day as sanction.

    So what you quoted is certainly partly true in the states.

    Personally I think they are a good idea, but it would be naive to think it would go strictly by the book in terms of our police force. The trust simply isn't there IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    Great idea. Scum starting to record after action has to be taken , making the guards look like the bad guys is laughable! Far too many scum in this country , bring them in !


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭ JohnnyFlash


    The ICCL is a very silly organisation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭ The high horse brigade


    Great idea but watch this get kicked into touch very quickly


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,734 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    This is a very good idea.

    I know personally of a few Gardai who have been unfairly villified in edited videos online.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,843 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles


    blanch152 wrote: »
    This is a very good idea.

    I know personally of a few Gardai who have been unfairly villified in edited videos online.

    It's not just for Gardaí it's for the public too.

    It actually might save us a few quid.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-awarded-1-1m-for-wrongful-arrest-by-garda%C3%AD-over-attack-on-fiancee-1.3970801


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭ weldoninhio


    Some goon from the ICCL was just on Adrian Kennedy there. Absolute mouth breather. Doesn't want to be filmed walking down the street apparently. Must not have heard of CCTV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,242 ✭✭✭✭ TheValeyard


    It's a great idea. Protects everyone involved. Maybe judges will finally see exactly what these little scrotes with 123 convictions in front of them are really like!

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭ Irishphotodesk


    Some goon from the ICCL was just on Adrian Kennedy there. Absolute mouth breather. Doesn't want to be filmed walking down the street apparently. Must not have heard of CCTV.

    Someone should ask the council for civil liberties if any of them have a Facebook account or use Google or possess a smart phone ... The amount of information those companies are receiving from individuals is more important that gardai requiring personal CCTV body cams.

    I have had discussions with the office of data protection about possible usage of a body cam in my work and was told it would require an assessment, they suggested I would turn on the cam when things escalated, I responded by that stage I would possibly have been assaulted.

    I will be purchasing 2 body cams, 1 forward and 1 facing behind me.... If anyone has any complaints I will explain its a health and safety issue and if they want to complain to the office of data protection ... I'm happy to goto court and let the courts decide.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 Oasis1974


    Just be showing all the guards down the pervebile donut shop really won't it.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    gardai have been calling for this for years, particularly since cameras on mobile phones came into widespread use.
    It is too easy for someone to video Gardai on the street & edit the video however they want to.
    It protects Gardai, It also protects the general public.
    I will say however, that I doubt very much these cameras will be on all the time. Makes no sense to record the ordinary day to day Garda walking around , chatting, doing whatever. Which, itself raises the question as to when do they get turned on?
    that will have to be dealt with first.
    but, a very welcome development


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    Should be a great idea for everyone's benefit but would I trust the Gardai with them.... Not so sure anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,721 ✭✭✭✭ BPKS


    The ICCL is a very silly organisation.

    Who funds these do-gooders?


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ all the bais


    Will be refreshing to see from the Garda's POV in the next Carla4garda installment


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    BPKS wrote: »
    Who funds these do-gooders?

    That's probably one of the stupidest things I've read here. People who keep an eye on civil liberties are the bad guys?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭ gifted


    After all the issues with the gardai and penalty points issues and missing commissioners mobile phones I would have doubts as to whether gardaI would be....selective....as to when they use these body cameras.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 Oasis1974


    Should be Tazers or Guns next think the guards would prefer them over Cams any day.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    https://www.wlrfm.com/2019/10/31/bodycams-for-gardai-could-infringe-rights-warns-iccl/

    See here.



    This one from the ICCL claims officers can turn off cameras at will. They can not. That is a lie. For example it is illegal in the US to tamper with the functioning of the camera (i.e by covering it during a traffic stop). Hence as I have said police officers have been fired for doing so.

    And the rest of it - "have a 'chilling effect' on right to protest" - why? Unless protesters are knowingly breaking the law why would they care?



    Even more reason they should have the cameras to aid in their own protection against violence/prosecution.



    And!?!



    The only misinformation is coming from you.

    How is it a lie? What's the rule on it here? Referencing the US means f'all, it's not some universal law


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,264 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    Oasis1974 wrote: »
    Should be Tazers or Guns next think the guards would prefer them over Cams any day.

    It will happen eventually


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oasis1974 wrote: »
    Should be Tazers or Guns next think the guards would prefer them over Cams any day.

    i wouldn't think so, most gardai do their job professionally & well. The body cameras will show that.
    I do agree tazers should be general issue, however they are classed as firearms in this country, so it won't happen so long as that is the case.
    I wouldn't think most gardai would want to carry firearams though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,264 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    bubblypop wrote: »
    however they are classed as firearms in this country, so it won't happen so long as that is the case.

    Wouldn't prevent them from being issued to gardai once a training program had being completed


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gatling wrote: »
    Wouldn't prevent them from being issued to gardai once a training program had being completed

    some gardai do carry tazers, but they are gardai who carry firearms.
    uniformed members cannot carry firearms.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭ James Brown


    The Garda won't like being watched.

    I wonder will the "If you're doing nothing wrong what's the problem?" line be rolled out? ...I doubt it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭ mountai


    Sooner the better . Also should have ID cards and most importantly a full DNA bank for everyone .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭ James Brown


    mountai wrote: »
    Sooner the better . Also should have ID cards and most importantly a full DNA bank for everyone .

    Nope. Trouble with DNA is insurance companies treating people differently for example. Info being sold etc. Do we trust our DNA info to the Garda/Pulse system? They can't organise breath tests.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Harlee Immense Peon


    Can't see any issues with this in terms of privacy if simply for recording to device only
    I.e. for future (secure, hard-line) main storage and retrieval (if and when) an internal request is made to access this, for a valid reason.

    However, with the incoming 5G and live FRS ai-systems - it means there would be much higher implications upon privacy, even risks of stalking or harassement.
    Typical Facial Recon Systems can scan 200 heads (per second), this data would likely be held on some (live, on-line) national dbase with a variety of multi-access points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,185 ✭✭✭✭ _Kaiser_


    bubblypop wrote: »
    i wouldn't think so, most gardai do their job professionally & well. The body cameras will show that.

    So long as they cannot be turned off or tampered with, I think the biggest benefits here are to protect them from spurious allegations.. BUT ALSO to protect the public from some of the stuff we've seen reported all too often.

    Most Gardai seem to do the minimum in my experience. The entire force needs restructuring and reform which in fairness to the new Commissioner, he seems to be trying to do.
    I do agree tazers should be general issue, however they are classed as firearms in this country, so it won't happen so long as that is the case.
    I wouldn't think most gardai would want to carry firearams though.

    Until the general level of professionalism rises in the force I wouldn't trust the rank and file with firearms


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,721 ✭✭✭✭ BPKS


    That's probably one of the stupidest things I've read here. People who keep an eye on civil liberties are the bad guys?

    Did I say they were "bad guys"? I'm still not sure who fund the ICCL.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,946 ✭✭✭✭ alchemist33


    Genuine question - would these be always-on during a shift e.g. when they go to a loo or are just chatting while driving around?


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