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Big Oil and the Global Climate Change movement

  • 26-10-2019 12:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    How do any of the climate alarmists explain the seemingly contradictory prevalence of old Big Oil interests at the very heart of the Global Climate Change movement?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    I don't see the contradiction. They realize their core business is going end of life so are looking for the next big thing... its not the sentiment, its the cash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    I don't see the contradiction. They realize their core business is going end of life so are looking for the next big thing... its not the sentiment, its the cash.

    Interesting. So you accept that the global climate change movement has been created and nurtured by Big Oil interests for decades then? Yes, it's not the sentiment, but neither is it the cash alone, though the 'Greening of the global economy' is going to provide a serious multi Trillion dollar windfall for the very financial and corporate interests who the climate activists naively believe they are battling. It's about power, and absolute power at that.

    Why should we trust anything the global climate change movement says when it's been created by the very interests it claims to be fighting? Why should anyone trust the IPCC Reports when the terms of reference for the IPCC reports for the IPCC were drafted by a lifelong Big Oil multimillionaire? Why should we gift them absolute power whilst impoverishing billions?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    Lesser of two evils.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Lesser of two evils.
    Is it though?

    You haven't answered why we should believe the alarmist view of the climate when it's clearly been created by those interests. If it's a complete hoax, surely the impoverishing of billions and the creation of centralised global tyranny is a tad worse than simply carrying on as we are, no?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    No


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    Is that it ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Is that it ?

    I might ask the same question. Simply 'No' doesn't really cut it. Might you care to explain why you believe impoverishing billions and creating a global tyranny in the control of the current transnational capital class is better than ignoring a hoax and avoiding the aforementioned horror show?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    Can you use smaller words please.

    I am from Kerry.

    Is the question not "do you believe in climate change", and you are just arguing about some peripheral stuff ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Can you use smaller words please.

    I am from Kerry.

    Is the question not "do you believe in climate change", and you are just arguing about some peripheral stuff ?

    Apologies, totally understand. I'll try again, though I'm not sure your fellow Kerry men wish to be lumped in with you on this.

    The Climate change narrative has been created by sociopathic financial interests intent on global dominance. You don't appear to dispute this. Yet, you wish to hand these sociopaths absolute control over every aspect of life on earth based on this narrative, resulting in the impoverishment of billions. Might you have an argument in favour of your stance to convince myself or others not to simply ignore or completely reject everything the climate change movement represents?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,095 ✭✭✭✭ Akrasia


    How do any of the climate alarmists explain the seemingly contradictory prevalence of old Big Oil interests at the very heart of the Global Climate Change movement?

    You’re talking absolute nonsense. The energy industry are at the heart of climate change denial


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  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Can you use smaller words please.

    I am from Kerry.

    Is the question not "do you believe in climate change", and you are just arguing about some peripheral stuff ?


    Also, the question is almost never "do you believe in climate change". Almost everybody does. The issue is the influence of man on our climate.

    Carbon makes up 0.0391 percent of the earth's atmosphere. About 3.75% [15 ppm] of that 0.0391% of CO2 in the lower atmosphere is man-made from the burning of fossil fuels, and thus, the vast remainder of the approximately 400 ppm atmospheric CO2 is from land-use changes and natural sources such as ocean outgassing and plant respiration. Therefore, manmade carbon emissions form approximately 0.0014625% of the earth's atmosphere, yet Athropogenic Climate Change fanatics would have us believe that by controlling/regulating this one single element, we can control the entire earth's climate. Let's just ignore Ocean cycles, tilt of the earth's axis, clouds, water vapour, volcanoes, Sun's solar cycles, Sun's solar flares etc which have driven climate change for millenia, until now. It's actually quite a ludicrous claim when looked at objectively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    Akrasia wrote: »
    You’re talking absolute nonsense. The energy industry are at the heart of climate change denial

    Ok. So, perhaps you can tell us, for example, who drafted the terms of reference for the IPCC? Who founded the World Wildlife Fund? Who is supporting Extinction Rebellion? Who are Greenpeaces biggest donors?

    Let me guess, the msm provided you an article about Exxon and their climate change studies from decades ago? Tell us, where did Exxon come from?

    Have you heard of 'astroturfing'?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    What do you mean by climate change movement ?

    I believe in climate changed based on my own observations, am I part of this narrative ?

    I am not aware of any group intent on global dominance, other than Google etc.

    I am aware of big oil companies and financial institutions who use the environmental movement as an opportunity to further their own interests, there is nothing new in that. Am I happy about it, No, but then thats what big business does. But if the end goal is achieved, climate change being taken seriously, then I would say its the Lesser of two evils, that's just simple logic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    What do you mean by climate change movement ?

    I believe in climate changed based on my own observations, am I part of this narrative ?

    I am not aware of any group intent on global dominance, other than Google etc.

    I am aware of big oil companies and financial institutions who use the environmental movement as an opportunity to further their own interests, there is nothing new in that. Am I happy about it, No, but then thats what big business does. But if the end goal is achieved, climate change being taken seriously, then I would say its the Lesser of two evils, that's just simple logic.

    Ok. Fair enough. The global climate change movement that has emanated from the Stockholm, Rio and Paris Conferences which are creating a supranational global governance structure unimpeded by democratic accountability or controls serving the interests of the current transnational capital class into perpetuity. Think of them as being like The European Coal and Steel Community to today's EU, and it's future Federalised Superstate form.

    I have asked a few questions above which point the way to show just how pervasive these interests have been in creating and/or nurturing everything from the IPCC, who's reports the anthropogenic climate change theory is based on, to the UNEP, the WWF, Greenpeace, Extinction Rebellion etc..

    What other really big players are there in the global climate change movement?

    You keep saying the lesser of two evils. If there is no anthropogenic climate change, or it is effectively insignificant in the grand scheme of things, not only is following this alarmist view not the lesser of two evils, it is the Evil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    Your science/logic is all wrong.

    I don't know how old you are, but when I was a lad in Mr. Kinsella's science class he told us of an experiment he did in university, where excess magnesium metal was burned in an air sample and all residue collected and analysed. This allowed an accurate, for the period, measurement/confirmation, of the co2 levels at the time. The result was about 0.0340.

    Now the level, you say, is 0.0391, thats an increase of 15% in my lifetime.

    Co2 has a much higher greenhouse effect than a lot of other gases, so just judging by quantity is not logical you need to take into account its effect. For example If, perish the thought, you were slipped an cyanide pill, it would only be a tiny thing (avg human 62000g, weight of cyanide pill 300mg) which is 0.0048 % of a human YET still causes a lot of effect.

    So something that has a massive effect has gone up 15%, and whats to blame, well thats obvious..

    So all you impressive numbers (8 decimal places) you posted are pretty meaningless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Your science/logic is all wrong.

    I don't know how old you are, but when I was a lad in Mr. Kinsella's science class he told us of an experiment he did in university, where excess magnesium metal was burned in an air sample and all residue collected and analysed. This allowed an accurate, for the period, measurement/confirmation, of the co2 levels at the time. The result was about 0.0340.

    Now the level, you say, is 0.0391, thats an increase of 15% in my lifetime.

    Co2 has a much higher greenhouse effect than a lot of other gases, so just judging by quantity is not logical you need to take into account its effect. For example If, perish the thought, you were slipped an cyanide pill, it would only be a tiny thing (avg human 62000g, weight of cyanide pill 300mg) which is 0.0048 % of a human YET still causes a lot of effect.

    So something that has a massive effect has gone up 15%, and whats to blame, well thats obvious..

    So all you impressive numbers (8 decimal places) you posted are pretty meaningless.

    Hmmm, Mr 'Kinsella' might be disappointed by your logic. You properly state that something with a very poisonous harmful effect can be harmful in even tiny doses. What you fail to do is explain how a minute increase in overall Carbon levels due to human activity could be so catastrophic. The natural variants in carbon levels are greater by some degree. Please explain how about 3.75% [15 ppm] of the 0.0391% of CO2 in the lower atmosphere controls the entire climate of the earth? Do you believe reducing manmade carbon emissions to zero will stop climate change? Or, if you believe it'll slow it, by how much do you reckon?

    Also, your point about manmade carbon emissions being the primary driver of global climate change primarily relies on the IPCC reports, the terms of reference for which were drafted by a corrupt lifelong Big Oil Man Maurice Strong.

    I might add, Carbon is the very basis for all organic life. Life, as we know it, is carbon based. Without carbon dioxide in our air there would be no photosynthesis to bring us the trees, plants, and carbohydrates we need to live, plants could not grow and all animal life would consequently die. Without CO2 trees wouldn't produce oxygen. Carbon is essential for life, yet you treat it as a poison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    Its not a minute increase, I am not going by reports, just the 15% I have witnessed in my life so far.

    Not going by any reports at all, so no effect on my "argument".

    Edit: No need for any biology or chemistry lessons, just assume I am OK there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    Let me try and condense my logic for you.

    I have spent my working life in technical industries there where progress was made studying "cause and effect".

    In my fife time I have seen CO2 levels rise by 15%

    What could cause this effect, what has changed that could make such a large effect ?

    I have concluded its the activities of man.

    Thats, it no reports etc......


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Let me try and condense my logic for you.

    I have spent my working life in technical industries there where progress was made studying "cause and effect".

    In my fife time I have seen CO2 levels rise by 15%

    What could cause this effect, what has changed that could make such a large effect ?

    I have concluded its the activities of man.

    Thats, it no reports etc......


    Eh, nobody is disputing that CO2 levels have risen. What is disputed is the claim that the rise in CO2 levels attributable to manmade emissions is driving the entire global climate into catastrophe. This is unproven, despite many believing otherwise. 'I have concluded its the activities of man'. Oh, ok.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭ nthclare


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    Let me try and condense my logic for you.

    I have spent my working life in technical industries there where progress was made studying "cause and effect".

    In my fife time I have seen CO2 levels rise by 15%

    What could cause this effect, what has changed that could make such a large effect ?

    I have concluded its the activities of man.

    Thats, it no reports etc......

    So in effect was the planet divided up into 100 area's and they came up with an average of 15%.

    Seriously I don't believe that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,700 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez grills former Exxon scientists on oil giant's climate change denial

    worth watching

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1187719206562910209


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez grills former Exxon scientists on oil giant's climate change denial

    worth watching

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1187719206562910209

    Yeah, naughty Exxon. Exxon originates from the Standard Oil group (the largest oil refiner in the world of its time) which was established and owned by John D Rockefeller, widely considered the wealthiest American of all time, and the richest person in modern history. Standard Oil was broken up into numerous major oil companies such as Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, Amoco etc...

    Godfrey A. Rockefellar helped Prince Bernard Of the Dutch Royal family (major shareholders in Royal Dutch Shell to this day) establish the World Wildlife Fund.

    Beginning in the 1980s, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund became leading advocates of the global warming agenda. … In their Sustainable Development Program Review, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund boasts of being one of the first major global warming activists, citing its strong advocacy for both the 1988 formation of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and the 1992 establishment of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change. The Rockefellar Family Fund has also focused it's Environment programme almost exclusively on climate change.

    David Rockefellar sat on the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations and later served as its Chairman. He also founded the Trilateral Commission. The Club of Rome was founded in 1968 at David Rockefellar's estate in Bellagio, Italy.

    The United Nations Headquarters in New York sits on land donated by the Rockefellar family.

    "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller during an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting, 1991.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    Maurice Strong was the single most significant public figure in the creation of the global climate change movement. Strong commissioned the Report 'Only One Earth: The Care and Maintenance of a Small Planet' and then established the Stockholm Conference, the first time numerous countries were brought together to discuss the global environment. He then established the UNEP and was its first executive director. Strong was one of the Commissioners of the World Commission on Environment and Development. He was appointed Secretary General of the UN Conference on Environment and Development known as the Earth Summit in Rio. Strong drafted the Terms of Reference for the IPCC, whose studies are being relied upon to support the claims of human carbon emissions driven global climate change. He was a Co Founder of the 1001 Club, a group of elite bankers and corporatists (major polluters), which is the piggy bank of the World Wildlife Fund.

    Strong, an associate of David Rockefellar (Rockefellars of Standard Oil fame, see above comment) since his early twenties, was involved in Dome Petroleum, Ajax Petroleum, Norcen Resources, AZL Resources, Ontario Hydro, and of course he headed up Petro-Canada at the request of Pierre Trudeau, father of Justin.

    Strong, a self described "socialist in ideology, a capitalist in methodology", came to see that the key to his vision was “environmentalism”, the one cause the UN could harness to make itself a truly powerful world government.

    “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the
    industrialized civilizations collapse?
    Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
    – Maurice Strong


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,700 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Yeah, naughty Exxon. Exxon originates from the Standard Oil group (the largest oil refiner in the world of its time) which was established and owned by John D Rockefeller, widely considered the wealthiest American of all time, and the richest person in modern history. Standard Oil was broken up into numerous major oil companies such as Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, Amoco etc...

    Godfrey A. Rockefellar helped Prince Bernard Of the Dutch Royal family (major shareholders in Royal Dutch Shell to this day) establish the World Wildlife Fund.

    Beginning in the 1980s, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund became leading advocates of the global warming agenda. … In their Sustainable Development Program Review, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund boasts of being one of the first major global warming activists, citing its strong advocacy for both the 1988 formation of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and the 1992 establishment of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change. The Rockefellar Family Fund has also focused it's Environment programme almost exclusively on climate change.

    David Rockefellar sat on the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations and later served as its Chairman. He also founded the Trilateral Commission. The Club of Rome was founded in 1968 at David Rockefellar's estate in Bellagio, Italy.

    The United Nations Headquarters in New York sits on land donated by the Rockefellar family.

    "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller during an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting, 1991.

    ...so global warming is a hoax or conspiracy theory?


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ...so global warming is a hoax or conspiracy theory?

    Eh, neither. Global warming and cooling and climate change are real, always have been, since the dawn of time and long before man inhabited the planet. The alarmist claim that manmade carbon emissions are the driver of global climate change and are pushing the world towards catastrophe is unproven. The claim though, is being used to progress the agenda of the 'elite' transnational capital class and their desire for absolute power and centralised global control.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,700 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Eh, neither. Global warming and cooling and climate change are real, always have been, since the dawn of time and long before man inhabited the planet. The alarmist claim that manmade carbon emissions are the driver of global climate change and are pushing the world towards catastrophe is unproven. The claim though, is being used to progress the agenda of the 'elite' transnational capital class and their desire for absolute power and centralised global control.

    both agree and disagree, more disagree to be honest. yes our climate has always warmed and cooled by its own accord, but in my opinion, theres sufficient evidence to show that our activities have put this natural cycle out of order, and has the potential to cause catastrophic problems for all living beings. yes controlling forces and entities, particularly plutocratic elements of our societies, have played, and continue to play pivotal roles in how this is playing out, unfortunately these forces, as you say, have little or no interest in the overall well being of our societies, and are more interested in power and control, but its also important to include, we effectively are a part of these controlling forces, as most of us interact with these forces on a daily basis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    both agree and disagree, more disagree to be honest. yes our climate has always warmed and cooled by its own accord, but in my opinion, theres sufficient evidence to show that our activities have put this natural cycle out of order, and has the potential to cause catastrophic problems for all living beings. yes controlling forces and entities, particularly plutocratic elements of our societies, have played, and continue to play pivotal roles in how this is playing out, unfortunately these forces, as you say, have little or no interest in the overall well being of our societies, and are more interested in power and control, but its also important to include, we effectively are a part of these controlling forces, as most of us interact with these forces on a daily basis.

    Likewise, both agree and disagree, more disagree too. The evidence that man is polluting the water, air, soil etc is plentiful. The evidence for carbon being this key factor tipping the entire global climate over a precipice, not so much.

    'we effectively are a part of these controlling forces, as most of us interact with these forces on a daily basis'. Not really. Whether you like it or not, we're the 'herd'. I'm guessing you, like I, are not a particularly powerful person. As Carlin said 'it's a big club and you ain't in it'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,095 ✭✭✭✭ Akrasia


    Ok. So, perhaps you can tell us, for example, who drafted the terms of reference for the IPCC? Who founded the World Wildlife Fund? Who is supporting Extinction Rebellion? Who are Greenpeaces biggest donors?

    Let me guess, the msm provided you an article about Exxon and their climate change studies from decades ago? Tell us, where did Exxon come from?

    Have you heard of 'astroturfing'?

    I have no intention of chasing your paranoia down rabbit holes. If you want to make claims you need to cite some sources to back them up


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭ SlowBlowin


    'I have concluded its the activities of man'. Oh, ok.

    OK, so you are not a fan of Occam's razor then, that makes sense, so its the most far fetched convoluted plot that is most likely, gotcha.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭ Aretheymyfeet


    Akrasia wrote: »
    I have no intention of chasing your paranoia down rabbit holes. If you want to make claims you need to cite some sources to back them up

    Of course, you much prefer your conditioned hysteria. Please dispute a single fact I have presented. Are you questioning Maurice Strongs role in creating the global climate change movement? Or is it his lifelong involvement with Big Oil you dispute? Or maybe you doubt the role the Rockefellars of Standard Oil fame have played in funding the movement and its narratives? What exactly do you dispute, we can discuss that? At present you're just waffling on about rabbit holes to comfort your own cognitive dissonance.


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