2015 Model S P90D 54K

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/tesla/model-s/fpa/201909162269764

Insane mode, now that would be fun blasting down the N7/M9 haha.

They are getting cheaper by the "year" lol.

2015 though and I certainly would not like one to die out or warranty. Imagine giving this car back with issues to the wonderful "SIMI" approved dealer with their "highest SIMI Assured standards" ? lol

But, what can I buy next November ? keep i3 Rex, nothing else coming out apart from the id.3 that would interest me in the slightest and I was hoping for something with a lot more performance to be honest.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/tesla/model-s/fpa/201909162269764

Insane mode, now that would be fun blasting down the N7/M9 haha.

They are getting cheaper by the "year" lol.

2015 though and I certainly would not like one to die out or warranty. Imagine giving this car back with issues to the wonderful "SIMI" approved dealer with their "highest SIMI Assured standards" ? lol

But, what can I buy next November ? keep i3 Rex, nothing else coming out apart from the id.3 that would interest me in the slightest and I was hoping for something with a lot more performance to be honest.

I was only looking at this ad yesterday
He has another 2 in stock, another 85Dand a 75d from memory.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars/Tesla/

KCross

It would be things like this that would have me worried about an out of warranty Tesla
https://insideevs.com/news/376037/tesla-mcu-emmc-memory-issue/

That screen going blank is a huge issue considering it controls everything in the car and it seems to be only starting to happen now to the cars that are out of warranty as it has taken those few years to wear out the memory.

Elon says "its much better now" but hasnt said its fixed or that they will give goodwill on it, which means older Tesla's have a ticking time bomb that is inevitably going to affect every single Tesla at some point in the future.

Lumen

You can get a lower mileage 90DL of the same vintage for £44k (€51k) direct from Tesla.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/inventory/used/ms?Price=50000&arrangeby=plh&zip=null&range=0

What's the VRT though?

Presumably DL is faster than "insane"?

unkel

I'd say someone in the USA will start up a business fixing these. Common business model. Order a refurbished motherboard from them, have someone local to you fit it, then send in your old motherboard.

BTW ELM327 got his 2016 facelift model 90D (not a performance) for £38k, from Tesla directly with Tesla warranty left (a bit)

KCross

KCross wrote: »

It would be things like this that would have me worried about an out of warranty Tesla
https://insideevs.com/news/376037/tesla-mcu-emmc-memory-issue/

That screen going blank is a huge issue considering it controls everything in the car and it seems to be only starting to happen now to the cars that are out of warranty as it has taken those few years to wear out the memory.

Elon says "its much better now" but hasnt said its fixed or that they will give goodwill on it, which means older Tesla's have a ticking time bomb that is inevitably going to affect every single Tesla at some point in the future.

That's just bloody nuts that the owner would have to pay such a huge amount to repair that.

Yeah buying one of these teslas would be madness without a good warranty which probably wouldn't be available on a 5 year old Model S so why would anyone risk a repair that could cost many thousands ?

The smile of that acceleration could soon disappear !

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I'd say someone in the USA will start up a business fixing these. Common business model. Order a refurbished motherboard from them, have someone local to you fit it, then send in your old motherboard.

Not much use in Ireland though! Who would even change the board locally.
You'll likely have to pay for the entire MCU to be replaced at the service centre.

And thats just one known example. What else is lurking?

It would be too big a risk for the money being spent imo. A Model 3 for similar money with full warranty makes alot more sense to me.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Not much use in Ireland though! Who would even change the board locally.
You'll likely have to pay for the entire MCU to be replaced at the service centre.

And thats just one known example. What else is lurking?

It would be too big a risk for the money being spent imo. A Model 3 for similar money with full warranty makes alot more sense to me.

A basic model 3 wouldn't be nearly as nice or fast, although 5.5 Seconds 0-60 ? isn't bad.

KCross

We need a "mechanic" like this in Ireland that understands Tesla's and can fix the electroncis out of warranty...

The Model 3 he has stripped out and putting into a Sprinter van is crazy looking. He clearly knows what he's at!

unkel

KCross wrote: »

And thats just one known example. What else is lurking?

In fairness the Model S is around 7 years and this is the first major out of warranty issue that is showing up now.

And about local fitters, I'd say there will be at least one outfit here in Ireland that will be able to fit a board within a year or two. Might even be DIY, and detailed vid posted onto YT

KCross

unkel wrote: »

In fairness the Model S is around 7 years and this is the first major out of warranty issue that is showing up now.

I dont know if thats true. Some drivetrain issues with early models too.

Every car (ICE or EV) has the potential for big issues. The lack of choice of indy places to fix a Tesla is the issue really. You are beholden to Tesla's service centre at the moment.

unkel wrote: »

And about local fitters, I'd say there will be at least one outfit here in Ireland that will be able to fit a board within a year or two. Might even be DIY, and detailed vid posted onto YT

Maybe, maybe not. You dont seem too confident either way!

Swapping the board is probably the easy bit. The timeframe and cost of getting it fixed is.

These kind of issues will be sorted like an ICE in time but we do have a lack of EV repair skills at present. There's another thread on the forum about getting an inverter replaced and look how long that took to fix! Its a real concern and more so in an expensive Tesla on a part that now appears to be a dead cert to fail at some point.

This is a potential serious issue, I'd tackle replacing the chip myself but extracting the keys is the hard part, it shouldn't be so expensive, that's just cashing in on someone's misfortune knowing they probably can't get it fixed somewhere else.

Definitely, a 2nd hand Tesla would scare the bejesus out of me.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I dont know if thats true. Some drivetrain issues with early models too.

Every single one of them fixed under warranty. And (eventually) replaced with improved systems that haven't failed.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Every single one of them fixed under warranty. And (eventually) replaced with improved systems that haven't failed.

That's great but what about if it fails outside of warranty ?

The cars need to be proven reliable up to at least 10 years old, if reports of 3,000 Euro repair bills to replace a 10 Dollar chip become common People will run a mile, imaging a drivetrain or battery failure ?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Every single one of them fixed under warranty. And (eventually) replaced with improved systems that haven't failed.

I know that, but what if the one you buy has not been replaced and it happens out of warranty!

You cant sweep these things under the carpet unkel. They are real issues and concerns for the buying public.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

I know that, but what if the one you buy has not been replaced and it happens out of warranty!

Then you will pay a lot of money and probably wait months for someone to fix it.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

You cant sweep these things under the carpet unkel. They are real issues and concerns for the buying public.

Of course not. I would love to buy one but tbh I'm scared sh1tless myself buying one without a warranty

Imagine a bill out of the blue for thousands, and then, as Mad_Lad said you won't get your car back for ages. I do believe that you always get a Tesla courtesy car (and they try to give you one of a higher spec than your own) while you are without your car. That at least gives some peace of mind. And all cars still have full battery and drivetrain warranty for another good few years. I would not buy without that.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Of course not. I would love to buy one but tbh I'm scared sh1tless myself buying one without a warranty

Imagine a bill out of the blue for thousands, and then, as Mad_Lad said you won't get your car back for ages. I do believe that you always get a Tesla courtesy car (and they try to give you one of a higher spec than your own) while you are without your car. That at least gives some peace of mind. And all cars still have full battery and drivetrain warranty for another good few years. I would not buy without that.

And you think the cost of the courtesy car isn't included in the repair bill ?

Definitely a car I would not take a gamble on until it's well proven to be reliable and not difficult to get repaired.

Why should I take the risk on a car that Tesla won't stand over any more ? at least let there be some extended warranty for older cars.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Definitely a car I would not take a gamble on until it's well proven to be reliable and not difficult to get repaired.

That will never be proven. More likely the opposite

unkel

unkel wrote: »

That will never be proven. More likely the opposite

lol, you never know, if it is a reliable car it will get known as reliable but if it's **** we'll also here it.

Old diesel

ICE cars have their issues too.
.
Someone on a Facebook group cited Audi A7 auto gearboxes as an example when responding to a post about this exact Tesla issue.

Unfortunately even with specialists - Modern cars cost silly money when they go wrong.

Wouldn't stop me buying one.

KCross

Old diesel wrote: »

ICE cars have their issues too.
.
Someone on a Facebook group cited Audi A7 auto gearboxes as an example when responding to a post about this exact Tesla issue.

Unfortunately even with specialists - Modern cars cost silly money when they go wrong.

Wouldn't stop me buying one.

Indeed, however, its a bit like buying a BMW with the known timing chain issue and hearing it rattling before you buy it.... the difference here is that you have no one other than Tesla to fix this memory chip issue.

With the BMW you can send it to your indy garage to fix it.


To be fair, EV's give little trouble but this issue with the memory chip looks serious to me as its pretty much guaranteed to happen at some point within the lifetime of the car from 4yrs+.

Tesla should make a statement and cover it under warranty as its clearly a major design flaw.

Orebro

Couldn't agree more - not a question of if but when this problem happens and you're without warranty, especially in Ireland, then you're facing a huge bill. I'd be on tenterhooks about it if I had one not in warranty.

drunkmonkey

Can you not open the door from the inside if the computer fecks up, this is worrying https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-widow-of-davie-tesla-crash-victim-sues-blames-door-failure-20191024-t2jk74fkcrhknout63lfu4qa3u-story.html

I'd have issues keeping the i3 out of warranty to be honest, why ? because BMW are not known or repairing or acknowledging manufacturing faults as we saw with the timing chain warranty, they are there to make money and nothing else and they do not care if a car breaks down out of warranty leaving their owners with potentially huge repair bills.

The Volkswagen Audi Group Multitronic and DSG failures were rampant, forcing VW to offer 100,000 mile warranty in the U.S and China while only offering 60,000 Miles for Europeans, consumer laws in Europe are very company focused in relation to cars.

Look at my i3 with steering noises after 70,000 Kms, a potentially large repair bill out of warranty. Door seals with holes and worn rubber, not what you'd expect from BMW ?

It's no wonder there are more People choosing the Korean brands that offer decent warranties.

Teslas have huge potential for failure, computer issues in the years to come, a computer for this, a computer for that. It's too much really, they are too complicated.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

this issue with the memory chip looks serious to me as its pretty much guaranteed to happen at some point within the lifetime of the car from 4yrs+.

That's a bit pessimistic. Hard drives have a published MTBF (mean time before failure), it's part of the spec. I'm not sure what Tesla use, but let's just assume it's an SSD. These have a MTBF of about 1 million hours. If your Tesla is used for 5 hours a day (probably more than most are used), the MTBF is still hundreds of years

Now of course one or two will fail within a year. And a few thousand will have failed by 20 years, but the overwhelming majority of cars will be scrapped without the issue arising (just making these figures up, I don't know how many Model S were produced and I don't know if this pattern follows a normal distribution - but you get the idea of what I mean)

Now these figures could be very different if another form of memory / hard disk is used of course, but the fact that this is only coming into the public domain now after 7 years of Model S production means that only now are there a few cases where this has happened and it is identified as an issue with the Model S

Big automotive issues, even catastrophic design issues, also only typically involve a minority of cars. I have seen it mentioned that the BMW timing chain issue occurs only in about 1 in 10 cars. Another major issue, the Porsche IMS bearing failing, can happen in the main Porsche flat 6 engine used from about the mid 90s to the mid 00s. In the case of that engine in my car, the bottom of the range 2.5l, the occurence is about 2% by now (20-25 years on). Of course if it happens, it costs you thousands. Which of course when a pattern of a particular issue is found, causes public outcry and all the drama makes the issue look far common than it is

KCross

unkel wrote: »

That's a bit pessimistic.

Too early to tell I suppose. Its eMMC storage rather than SSD by the way, but they are similar in nature.

I get your MTBF scenario but I think this is different because Tesla is using the chip beyonds its design limits so the MTBF is going to be quicker (4yrs it seems) and it seems to be happening in increasing numbers but admittedly we dont know what % that equates to.

Again, the main issue is that you're on your own when it does. Lack of servicing/repair options in this country is the problem.

I would hope that Tesla has pushed an OTA update to all cars to reduce the amount of logging and hence protect it from this point forward but they havent really been forthcoming with much info and the US repair guys are seeing increasing numbers of failures. It just doesnt instill confidence in an expensive product.

unkel

Totally agree on all points and yes I would expect an OTA update at some point if indeed all this logging is not necessary and doesn't serve any purpose (I haven't looked into it in depth)

Expectations are too high though. Ah a problem, Tesla should fix this by next Wednesday
Most other manufacturers wouldn't ever even consider fixing an out of warranty problem like this for free.

KCross

Some good detail on it here on how to tell if it’s starting to happen. It appears it can be a gradual thing with some early signs so worth knowing if you’re looking at one.

https://insideevs.com/news/377570/warnings-mcu-gives-before-dying/

He also thinks they are all going to die and that’s obviously not an anti-EV site!

Lol , that convinced me not to buy a 2nd hand model S for sure ! screw that, if they are aware of the Problem and expect the owner to pay for their crap hardware issues, no thanks.

drunkmonkey

Any car can give up the ghost whether it's a turbo, engine etc, i'm not seeing it as a reason to avoid one. Depreciation is probably something to be more concerned about over the next 3yrs. Still even then I can't see this been worth less than 30k in 2022 on the basis it's a performance car.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any car can give up the ghost whether it's a turbo, engine etc, i'm not seeing it as a reason to avoid one. Depreciation is probably something to be more concerned about over the next 3yrs. Still even then I can't see this been worth less than 30k in 2022 on the basis it's a performance car.

Sure any car can give problems but if you had the choice, would you buy a car knowing at some point you will have to put 4-5 K Euro's into fixing the MCU, especially knowing the manufacturer are well aware of the problem and won't issue a recall ? I sure as hell wouldn't touch the Model S unless there was a proper fix for free.

drunkmonkey

Says the man in a BMW....:P

markpb

KCross wrote: »

A Model 3 for similar money with full warranty makes alot more sense to me.

They’re very different cars. The model 3 isn’t a great family car, the boot is big enough to lose a child or two but the shape of the boot opening is closer to useless.

copeyhagen

just got my 2015 (152) 90d from tesla on wednesday. was 37,900 sterling, 42k miles wiht another 4 years and 58k mile warranty

21" alloys
next gen seats
upgraded sound system
cold weather package
etc
etc
etc

copeyhagen

markpb wrote: »

They’re very different cars. The model 3 isn’t a great family car, the boot is big enough to lose a child or two but the shape of the bot opening is closer to useless.

looked a the 3 and just didnt like it ,the whole minimilastic interior just isnt for me.

the s is perfect for me

Petetheroadie

copeyhagen wrote: »

looked a the 3 and just didnt like it ,the whole minimilastic interior just isnt for me.

the s is perfect for me

Well wear! Jealous as hell :-)

ELM327

I was looking at that one, even spoke to the dealer.
Sounds a good car but I couldnt pass up the deal I got on my S90D facelift for 10k cheaper than that all in.
Collecting her on Tuesday, paid in full.

To be honest dealing with Tesla UK is such a faff that if I had the do over I'd probably buy that one or the black 152d p85 that's been for sale for yonks.

markpb

ELM327 wrote: »

To be honest dealing with Tesla UK is such a faff that if I had the do over I'd probably buy that one or the black 152d p85 that's been for sale for yonks.

What were they like?

BigAl81

You'll have to do a thread on that ELM

ELM327

markpb wrote: »

What were they like?

Non responsive, overpromising on calls, am on to my third rep as the first two were "poorly".
If it wasnt for a Tesla I'd never deal with them again! I'd have bought an ipace or something. Absolute horsesh1t when it comes to customer service


Am still waiting for them to confirm receipt of payment, and to confirm that my car has had the CCS refit done.

BigAl81 wrote: »

You'll have to do a thread on that ELM

I intend to do a thread after bringing it back.
We're heading over Monday evening and staying in a 40 quid travelodge! Collecting the car at 2pm and heading back on the 8.55pm ferry. Should be plenty of time.

BigAl81

ELM327 wrote:

I intend to do a thread after bringing it back. We're heading over Monday evening and staying in a 40 quid travelodge! Collecting the car at 2pm and heading back on the 8.55pm ferry. Should be plenty of time.

Wow, exciting times. Very jealous!!

If it was me I'd be want to sleep in the shiny new (to you) Tesla instead of the Travelodge ha ha

Good luck with the trip!

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd have issues keeping the i3 out of warranty to be honest

It's no wonder there are more People choosing the Korean brands that offer decent warranties.

Precisely why I'm waiting and watching for a good deal on an e-Niro and then wave goodbye to the i3.

I'm out of warranty now!

Kramer

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm out of warranty now!

Do BMW not offer an extended warranty for the i3? Probably wouldn't be too cheap but worth it for the peace of mind.

Shame to get rid of a car if happy with it & it fulfills one's needs, just because of a lack of warranty.
I tried out most, if not all, available EVs before deciding on an Ioniq & the i3 was one of the best - just too pricey back then.

unkel

+1

BMW do extended warranties, and you can continue them forever iirc. Last time I looked it was a bit over a grand a year on an M5, which is excellent value for money.

DrPhilG

Kramer wrote: »

Do BMW not offer an extended warranty for the i3? Probably wouldn't be too cheap but worth it for the peace of mind.

Well north of a grand, and IIRC there is a long list of exclusions too.

It's not just the warranty, I'd prefer a bigger boot and 60+kWh pure BEV. The i3 fit the bill nicely for me to bridge the gap from my 24kWh Leaf and my next long term car. Plus it seems to have held its value very well so I could shift it now for very little depreciation.

Considering lease for the next car instead so I could get a bit of cash back in the process.

Kramer

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well north of a grand, and IIRC there is a long list of exclusions too.
I'd prefer a bigger boot
prefer 60+kWh pure BEV
I could shift it now for very little depreciation.
I could get a bit of cash back in the process.

Compelling arguments - doubt even Mad_Lad could contest .

ELM327

copeyhagen wrote: »

just got my 2015 (152) 90d from tesla on wednesday. was 37,900 sterling, 42k miles wiht another 4 years and 58k mile warranty

21" alloys
next gen seats
upgraded sound system
cold weather package
etc
etc
etc

Excellent, glad to hear you got sorted.
Throw up a thread or a few photos?


How did you find collection experience etc. We're going over Monday evening probably to the same location as you!

Orebro

What is the VRT like on these folks?

ELM327

Am expecting 2-3k