Whats your opinion on these supplements recommended by Vince Gironda?

stockshares

Im not sure if this question is more suited to the nutrition or strength forums. Feel free to move it if necessary.

I dusted off an old Bodybuiding book by Vince Gironda called Unleashing the Wild Physique which was printed in 1984.

He recommended including the following supplements in many of his Diets:
3 Hydrochloric Acid before meal
1 Multi Vit
1 Vit B Complex
1 Vit c complex 300mg
1 Chelated Mineral tablet
3 lysine tabs 400mg
10 kelp
3 multi glandular tabs(nucleo glan)
1 hypothalmus tab
1 hypo zyme tab
1 halibut oil
1 vit b15 tab
3 vit e 600-1200iu
1 zinc with paba acid
10 alfalfa
3 tri germ
3 wheat germ oil
1 rna-dna tablet
1 lipotropic tab
4 calcium tabs
5 Yeast
10 amino acids every every 3 hrs
10 dessicated liver every every 3 hrs
3 digestive enzymes after meal
Raw Orchic Tabs before and after workout

Since the book was published there have been advances in Nutrition and Supplementation. Im interested to know what your opinions are on his recommendations particularly the Multi Glandular and Raw Orchic tabs and whether Dessicated Liver is safe to take considering the problems with BSE and whether a separate Chelated Mineral product is necessary or one good multi vitamin would cover both the Vitamin and Mineral requirements for Weight Training.

If someone could also recommend a Good Brand for the following supplements:
Hydrochloric Acid
Digestive Enzymes
Brewers Yeast
Dessicated Liver
Kelp
Alfalfa
Multivitamin and Mineral product
Wheat germ Oil
Branch Chain Amino Acids

Thanks for any replies in advance.

Blacktie.

Looks way over the top. Supplements are meant to be just that. They're not meant to become your source of nutrition.

stockshares

Blacktie. wrote: »

Looks way over the top. Supplements are meant to be just that. They're not meant to become your source of nutrition.

That's what I was thinking.

There are some supps though that I want to get.

Where is best to buy from between Iherb, Bulkpowders and Discount Supplements?

Alf Veedersane

He also started a supplement company in the 70s so its no surprise he was championing all of the supplements in the 80s.

stockshares

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He also started a supplement company in the 70s so its no surprise he was championing all of the supplements in the 80s.

I only learned of his supplement company this morning. It was called NPS. One of his business partners died earlier this year I think. He had been running it since Vince died. I'm not sure if the company is still running, their website seems to be still running but I'm not sure.

In fairness to him many others are still trying to sell supps.
He did pioneer many exercises and diets that are still used today.

Supps like Alfalfa, Kelp and Wheat Germ caught my eye when reading the book. I know brewers yeast and liver tabs are effective but I'm not sure if the liver tabs are safe to take since BSE and all the hormones that are pumped into cattle.

Alf Veedersane

stockshares wrote: »

I only learned of his supplement company this morning. It was called NPS. One of his business partners died earlier this year I think. He had been running it since Vince died. I'm not sure if the company is still running, their website seems to be still running but I'm not sure.

In fairness to him many others are still trying to sell supps.
He did pioneer many exercises and diets that are still used today.

Supps like Alfalfa, Kelp and Wheat Germ caught my eye when reading the book. I know brewers yeast and liver tabs are effective but I'm not sure if the liver tabs are safe to take since BSE and all the hormones that are pumped into cattle.

Out of interest, how do you know those two are effective?

I'm not shítting in supplements but, as Blacktie said, supplements are in addition to your diet.

There's also the reality that a lot of what he said with respect to supplements etc may not have been aimed at the general population whose diet is so far from where one would need to worry about supplements.

stockshares

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Out of interest, how do you know those two are effective?

I'm not shítting in supplements but, as Blacktie said, supplements are in addition to your diet.

There's also the reality that a lot of what he said with respect to supplements etc may not have been aimed at the general population whose diet is so far from where one would need to worry about supplements.

Years ago I used Yeast and Liver tabs and got good results with them. They are useful to take between meals as a good source of protein, vits and iron without having to eat.

I know supps are not a replacement for a good diet. I dont take any supps now , not even a multi vit but Ill be returning to weight training soon and want to organise my diet.

Im thinking of including these
A multi vit
Vit D during Winter
Fish oil
Liver and Yeast
and adding Girondas recommendation of Wheat Germ, Alfalfa and Kelp.
I might also include HCL and Digestive enzymes depending on how diet is going.

I'm not sure if Amino Acids are necessary but I might include them later in the program.

All this is just an idea atm. I thought I'd post here and see what people's opinions are.

Alf Veedersane

stockshares wrote: »

Years ago I used Yeast and Liver tabs and got good results with them

I'm not trying to poke holes or be contrary but what results can you assign directly to them?

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is that for the vast majority of people, a balanced diet will get you the vitamins and minerals you need. Supplementing those vitamins and minerals is fine but the reality is the focus should be on building from the base (of the pyramid) up.

stockshares

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not trying to poke holes or be contrary but what results can you assign directly to them?

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is that for the vast majority of people, a balanced diet will get you the vitamins and minerals you need. Supplementing those vitamins and minerals is fine but the reality is the focus should be on building from the base (of the pyramid) up.

I realise what your saying. Im thinking of following his Hormone Precursor diet so I know what foods I'll be eating and in what quantities. I was just unsure of some of his supplement recommendations.

After reading about the Multi Glandular and Raw Orchic Tissue I will defenitly be avoiding those.

I'll post a link to the diet in a minute. It's basically the same as the Atkins and Anabolic Diets. High protein, High Fat, minimum carbs for about 8 weeks.

Edit:
Here's the diet, scroll down
https://oldschooltrainer.com/vince-girondas-hormone-precursor-diet-for-muscle-gain/

Btw
In this article the author says that the wide grip bench to neck is outdated. I know it's risky but it's not outdated.

I got great results doing it before but the risk of injury is high for the shoulder and bicep.

Alf Veedersane

To what degree is the wide grip bench to the beck better than wide grip bench to the chest?

I'm not saying you are but it reads as, for someone about to get back into weight training, you're over complicating it for yourself at this point in time.

That's just how it reads though and all I'm going on is the few posts. But hopefully you find something that works for you.

stockshares

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To what degree is the wide grip bench to the beck better than wide grip bench to the chest?

I'm not saying you are but it reads as, for someone about to get back into weight training, you're over complicating it for yourself at this point in time.

That's just how it reads though and all I'm going on is the few posts. But hopefully you find something that works for you.

I find that the Chest gets a better pump using the Bench to Neck and also it gives the chest some shape providing you use 10+ reps. Using a heavy weight 3-5 reps is dangerous when doing the bench to neck.

I only use the Standard Bench Press to build strength so that I will have more strength available for the Press. I don't think the standard bench press does anything for the shape of the chest.

Alf Veedersane

stockshares wrote: »

I find that the Chest gets a better pump using the Bench to Neck and also gives the chest some shape.

I only use the Standard Bench Press to build strength so that I will have more strength available for the Press. I don't think the standard bench press does anything for the shape of the chest.

That's like saying the normal bench press doesn't work the pecs. The mechanics of my bench are more tricepy but I've still built my chest from mostly normal bench pressing and DB pressing.

That is just me, of course, but I do know of plenty of people with sizeable pecs that have built them without wide grip benching with their neck in jeopardy.

stockshares

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That's like saying the normal bench press doesn't work the pecs. The mechanics of my bench are more tricepy but I've still built my chest from mostly normal bench pressing and DB pressing.

That is just me, of course, but I do know of plenty of people with sizeable pecs that have built them without wide grip benching with their neck in jeopardy.

Everyone's different, I can only speak from my own experience.

Standard Bench makes me feel stronger but Bench to Neck gives better development but carries a greater risk of injury.

I found a similar relationship between the Press and the Bradford Press(Alternate Shoulder Press)
The Press gives more strength but the Bradford Press gives more development providing high reps are used. The Bradford carries a high risk of of Impingement injury.

Gironda recommended the Wide grip Bench and the Bradford over the Bench Press and Press but in his books he never mentioned the risk of Injury which I thought was negligent of him.

Here's s link to a site devoted to his teachings
http://ironguru.com/

Rodin

Hydrochloric Acid supplements? Sure the stomach us already full of the stuff.

stockshares

Rodin wrote: »

Hydrochloric Acid supplements? Sure the stomach us already full of the stuff.

Apparently a lot of reflux and indigestion problems are caused by people eating carbs and protein at the same meal.

The food can't be digested which results in reflux and antacids being used.

HCl is supposed to make sure food gets digested.

Gironda said repeatedly that it's not the quality or amount of food that you eat that's important but the amount of food that you digest that's important.

silverharp

It is possible to be deficient in minerals even if you eat a good diet because the soil is mineral depleted, Magnesium is a good example and doubly so because running water is a source of Magnesium but you don't get any in treated water. Vit D is a good idea for a supplement especially in a country like Ireland , fish oil might be the other one. After that try eat liver, its a good nutritional source relative to something like chicken

stockshares

silverharp wrote: »

It is possible to be deficient in minerals even if you eat a good diet because the soil is mineral depleted, Magnesium is a good example and doubly so because running water is a source of Magnesium but you don't get any in treated water. Vit D is a good idea for a supplement especially in a country like Ireland , fish oil might be the other one. After that try eat liver, its a good nutritional source relative to something like chicken

Good points, regarding Liver does it matter what animal it's from?

silverharp

stockshares wrote: »

Good points, regarding Liver does it matter what animal it's from?

my preference is Beef or Lamb because the animals are reared eating real food, you wouldn't know (or at least I don't) what diet Pigs or chickens eat.

stockshares

silverharp wrote: »

my preference is Beef or Lamb because the animals are reared eating real food, you wouldn't know (or at least I don't) what diet Pigs or chickens eat.

Thanks, I think I'lll go with Beef. The lambs don't get a chance at all.

Btw do you know of a good liver supplement. Grass fed cattle, hormone and BSE free?

silverharp

stockshares wrote: »

Thanks, I think I'lll go with Beef. The lambs don't get a chance at all.

Btw do you know of a good liver supplement. Grass fed cattle, hormone and BSE free?

I don't know anything about liver supplements , anyone who mentions organ meats just say eat the real thing

I talk about making it more than I make but bone broth is another way to go, either bones from a butcher or oxtail. cook them in a pot for several hours, at least its a real food way of getting minerals which will be more bio available.

stockshares

silverharp wrote: »

I don't know anything about liver supplements , anyone who mentions organ meats just say eat the real thing

I talk about making it more than I make but bone broth is another way to go, either bones from a butcher or oxtail. cook them in a pot for several hours, at least its a real food way of getting minerals which will be more bio available.

I tried doing it with a Chicken carcass before but the bones broke up and splintered badly which made it unusable.

I think you would want to be sure of the source using bones from cattle.

ksceniaonegina

One tablet of multivitamin should cover at least half of the supplements on the list

stockshares

ksceniaonegina wrote: »

One tablet of multivitamin should cover at least half of the supplements on the list

That's what I was thinking. Yet he advocated taking a multivitamin + those supps.

I've been looking for a good multivitamin. People on Bodybuilding.com recommend Animal Pak MultiVit but it has very high doses.

Atm I'm leaning towards Solgars Multivitamin+Chelated Minerals.

Do you know of a good Multivitamin. There are many with good reviews on Iherb. Choosing one Is the hardest part.

NIMAN

stockshares wrote: »

I dusted off an old Bodybuilding book by Vince Gironda called Unleashing the Wild Physique which was printed in 1984.

When I see this word, especially from that era, I would put the mortgage on that it was only certain types of 'supplements' that helped a body get to a certain physique.

stockshares

NIMAN wrote: »

When I see this word, especially from that era, I would put the mortgage on that it was only certain types of 'supplements' that helped a body get to a certain physique.

Youre more than likely right but he didn't advocate steroids, certainly not in the book. I think Hoffman and Weider and the old York Barbell crew did but I could be wrong on that.

Steroids and Peds are everywhere now, Bodybuilding, All sports, school sports. It's rife, they weren't just used in his era.

Even in today's Dublin Marathon the Men's winner was previously banned for irregularities in his Blood Passport.

In today's Info Paul Kimmage has an article on it. Neil Francis told him there were Irish Rugby players in 88 on it There's been an effort to normalise Painkillers in rugby. It's put about that the game is so physical that players need them but there on much more than painkillers. The amount of rugby players that are dying in their 40s is shocking, many are from the 1st generation of professional players..

wakka12

No evidence that supplements do anything to aid health if the diet is healthy