Forced Work Christmas Day

bearclaire

Hi can anyone tell me if Employers Can force staff to work Christmas Day
I’m part time 22 - 26 hours a week
There offering a good rate of pay and bonus But I personally don’t want to work regardless and just wanted to know my rights
Thanks

Batgurl

bearclaire wrote: »

Hi can anyone tell me if Employers Can force staff to work Christmas Day
I’m part time 22 - 26 hours a week
There offering a good rate of pay and bonus But I personally don’t want to work regardless and just wanted to know my rights
Thanks

Yes.

rafatoni

What profession do you work in?

bearclaire

rafatoni wrote: »

What profession do you work in?

Customer service

Invisibleman

You can’t be forced to do anything unless you agree, if you don’t, get another job

_Brian

I’ve worked on places where the work was 24/7

If the usual rostered work day was Christmas Day then you were expected to work it or apply for annual leave which was always a scramble.

I worked a number and lucky enough to get some off.

pinkyeye

Simple answer is yes you can be "forced" as you call it. A company is not obliged to give anyone a particular day off unless they have applied for annual leave and it has been approved.

scwazrh

Can you be sacked for saying no ?

Batgurl

scwazrh wrote: »

Can you be sacked for saying no ?

Insomuch as you can be sacked for refusing to work any other day of the year.

Strumms

In a company which I worked for we had a guy who was a fairly devout catholic, he maintained it was his right to be given Sunday off, he was facilitated getting rostered off on Sunday because of this. About two years later he claimed he had turned his back on Catholicism and was now Jewish and instead wanted Saturday off. He was told to fûck off. Much kicking and screaming later, he left, under a cloud...

BDI

I’d just ring in sick.
Customer service on Christmas Day, Jaysis.

_Brian

scwazrh wrote: »

Can you be sacked for saying no ?

Disciplined yes.
Sacked for one day absence would be hard to push through unless there was some catastrophic result from the employee not being there.
Or unless the employee was already in the discipline process for absence issues.

Always Tired

Why are they open on Christmas Day? What is the business/product that it needs to be open that day? Customers will assume the place is closed it will probably be really slow.

I'm guessing you won't be the only one, and it seems basically your options are to either do it or call out sick. I'be worked Christmas Day before and it wasn't as bad as it sounds. It was a relaxed day because it was slow and those of us that had to come in shared a sense of camaraderie for doing so. I don't really like Christmas anyway though which helped. But basically it won't be as bad as it sounds, you'll probably find that you and your team will be simultaneously annoyed but in good form at the same time.

But if you call in sick, the others who are scheduled that day will be resentful, plus you could get disciplined. You'll have to get a sick cert too.

When the day has come and gone, you'll have rather had gone in. You won't have the 'oh she pulled a sickie' stuff going around behind your back, and you'll get the pay plus the bonus which always comes in handy in January. To make up for it you could use the extra cash to get something for yourself in the January sales or for going out on Stephen's Night or New Year's if that's your thing.

The alternative is coworkers b*tching about you and missing close to 2 days pay.

gwalk

Always Tired wrote: »

Why are they open on Christmas Day? What is the business/product that it needs to be open that day? Customers will assume the place is closed it will probably be really slow.

it might be a multinational company where christmas isnt a big deal? so you might get calls from all over the world

I know staff in eBay that are in on xmas day

Kimbot

Always Tired wrote: »

Why are they open on Christmas Day? What is the business/product that it needs to be open that day? Customers will assume the place is closed it will probably be really slow.

I'm guessing you won't be the only one, and it seems basically your options are to either do it or call out sick. I'be worked Christmas Day before and it wasn't as bad as it sounds. It was a relaxed day because it was slow and those of us that had to come in shared a sense of camaraderie for doing so. I don't really like Christmas anyway though which helped. But basically it won't be as bad as it sounds, you'll probably find that you and your team will be simultaneously annoyed but in good form at the same time.

But if you call in sick, the others who are scheduled that day will be resentful, plus you could get disciplined. You'll have to get a sick cert too.

When the day has come and gone, you'll have rather had gone in. You won't have the 'oh she pulled a sickie' stuff going around behind your back, and you'll get the pay plus the bonus which always comes in handy in January. To make up for it you could use the extra cash to get something for yourself in the January sales or for going out on Stephen's Night or New Year's if that's your thing.

The alternative is coworkers b*tching about you and missing close to 2 days pay.

In fairness, Guards/Firefighters/Hospitals/Prisons/Nursing homes and plenty of other businesses are open on Christmas day. Hell i worked in a shop 23 years ago that opened for a few hours to make sure people were able to get a few last minute bits if they were stuck.

Always Tired

Always Tired wrote: »

Why are they open on Christmas Day? What is the business/product that it needs to be open that day? Customers will assume the place is closed it will probably be really slow.
y.

In a significant proportion of the world, and for a considerable number of both non Christians and Christians here in Ireland, Christmas Day is just like any other day. Problems happen and support services may be necessary.

Sir Oxman

bearclaire wrote: »

Hi can anyone tell me if Employers Can force staff to work Christmas Day
I’m part time 22 - 26 hours a week
There offering a good rate of pay and bonus But I personally don’t want to work regardless and just wanted to know my rights
Thanks

Have you tried switching with someone else?

dragonfly!

What does your contract say?
In the industry Im in its a normal working day and you are expected to attend work as such unless leave has been agreed which is always a scramble

road_high

I’d say lots of call centre support offices would be running particularly if they trade internationally- to most of the world it’s just another day and not the massive deal it is in Ireland.

SusieBlue

These threads pop up every year and every year I say the same thing!
Yes they can roster you, if you don't want to work it then hand in your notice a week or two before Christmas to allow them to rejig the roster.

DO NOT call in sick on Christmas day. I don't say this out of concern for your boss or employers, I say this out of pity for your poor fellow colleague who will be called in last minute to cover you after expecting to have the day off.
No its not your problem, but its a very selfish & unkind thing to do.

I fully understand why someone wouldn't want to work that day, so if you don't want to, just hand in your notice. Don't pull a fast one at the 11th hour and ruin some other poor souls Christmas at the last minute.

Jim2007

SusieBlue wrote: »

DO NOT call in sick on Christmas day. I don't say this out of concern for your boss or employers, I say this out of pity for your poor fellow colleague who will be called in last minute to cover you after expecting to have the day off.
No its not your problem, but its a very selfish & unkind thing to do.

Good advice, but actually it probably will be come "your problem", because everyone will know you done it and although there will not be anything they can do about it directly, they can definitely make your live uncomfortable.... no one willing to cover for you, boss scheduling you for they difficult shifts etc...

Strumms

Kimbot wrote: »

In fairness, Guards/Firefighters/Hospitals/Prisons/Nursing homes and plenty of other businesses are open on Christmas day. Hell i worked in a shop 23 years ago that opened for a few hours to make sure people were able to get a few last minute bits if they were stuck.

They are services, critical services, without any one of them people ARE going to die on Christmas Day. That cannot be argued.

For a ‘for profit’ business to open its just a bit prickish. It’s saying “yep for sure we want the opportunity to amass more money and in doing so we are going to try and deprive our staff from on this one day being able to relax and stay at home and enjoy with their loved ones because we want more money”. One day out of 365, but nope for some that’s a step too far.:rolleyes:

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

They are services, critical services, without any one of them people ARE going to die on Christmas Day. That cannot be argued.

For a ‘for profit’ business to open its just a bit prickish. It’s saying “yep for sure we want the opportunity to amass more money and in doing so we are going to try and deprive our staff from on this one day being able to relax and stay at home and enjoy with their loved ones because we want more money”. One day out of 365, but nope for some that’s a step too far.:rolleyes:

I guess computers and electronic equipment don't understand the importance of Christian beliefs to some, they really should.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

I guess computers and electronic equipment don't understand the importance of Christian beliefs to some, they really should.

Christian beliefs don’t come a huge way into it, for some of course yes, for others it’s a celebration of the family, a day when the whole family is enabled to be together without a boss looking for overtime or other distractions. One fûcking day a year, one day.

Your point about computers and electronics... you ask for volunteers, not putting the gun to the heads...people who WANT to work should have that opportunity, those who value the day.. should be enabled to be off. With Ireland a very diverse country now it won’t be difficult to get volunteers who Christmas holds no huge importance. A few extra quid, a quiet day in work.. be perfect, for some...


It’s a slippery slope. As you say, it stars with a critical helpline for kids toys and electronics, then you’ll have an electronics company boasting of a sale starting on Xmas day...a staffed phone line, an open shop, etc.... one day a year closed won’t suit the grabby gob****es who money will be the singular motivation over the happiness and wellbeing of others.

KaneToad

If there were a few quid extra for doing it, I'd bite their hand off. Christmas is a holiday for kids. Missing Christmas day is no loss, I'm sure you'll have days off around the Christmas season which will give ample time to catch up with people who may not be usually around.

whisky_galore

BDI wrote: »

I’d just ring in sick.
Customer service on Christmas Day, Jaysis.

Not at all suspicious, like the Blue Flu.

Couldn't give a fig about the day myself, tired old routine only for children, worked it before and would do so again.

Strumms

KaneToad wrote: »

I'd bite their hand off. Christmas is a holiday for kids. Missing Christmas day is no loss.

I’d disagree. Christmas is very much a day for being with your family and loved ones. It’s not ‘just’ about kids. My parents are in their late 70’s and early 80’s and there won’t be a whole heap of Christmases left in reality... if in the future I’m given an ultimatum in work.. ‘you ARE working Christmas day’ my reply will be.. ‘well you better start looking for my replacement because I won’t be’...

splinter65

Strumms wrote: »

I’d disagree. Christmas is very much a day for being with your family and loved ones. It’s not ‘just’ about kids. My parents are in their late 70’s and early 80’s and there won’t be a whole heap of Christmases left in reality... if in the future I’m given an ultimatum in work.. ‘you ARE working Christmas day’ my reply will be.. ‘well you better start looking for my replacement because I won’t be’...

....and they’ll say that’s grand you’ll have to work your 2 weeks notice and we’ll have your final paycheck ready for you the day you finish.
I assume if you need the A&E on Christmas Day you expect to find it open? And find it clean? And expect to be fed if you are admitted? And expect an ambulance to bring you there?
I assume if there is an electricity outage on Christmas Day you’ll expect the fault to be fixed?
I assume if you have a house fire you’ll expect the fire brigade to come?

KaneToad

Strumms wrote: »

I’d disagree. Christmas is very much a day for being with your family and loved ones. It’s not ‘just’ about kids. My parents are in their late 70’s and early 80’s and there won’t be a whole heap of Christmases left in reality... if in the future I’m given an ultimatum in work.. ‘you ARE working Christmas day’ my reply will be.. ‘well you better start looking for my replacement because I won’t be’...

I'd be of the opinion that you could spend a different day with them over the Christmas season. Don't see the panic that it has to be the 25th. I'm sure you all appreciate spending time together, irrespective of the day.

Strumms

splinter65 wrote: »

....and they’ll say that’s grand you’ll have to work your 2 weeks notice and we’ll have your final paycheck ready for you the day you finish.
I assume if you need the A&E on Christmas Day you expect to find it open? And find it clean? And expect to be fed if you are admitted? And expect an ambulance to bring you there?
I assume if there is an electricity outage on Christmas Day you’ll expect the fault to be fixed?
I assume if you have a house fire you’ll expect the fire brigade to come?

Try and keep up...

I’ve already addressed the fact that ‘crucial services’ ie health, hospitals, care companies, Gardai, fire services must be working... its basically ‘preservation of life’ that makes them 100% necessary to be working. You know that from the moment you send in a cv, the same with one or two other professions... but there are others who work ONLY with a view to making money, who INSIST on staff being in to ‘make money’.

Strumms

KaneToad wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that you could spend a different day with them over the Christmas season. Don't see the panic that it has to be the 25th. I'm sure you all appreciate spending time together, irrespective of the day.

Not really, having your Christmas dinner together, opening presents etc. and every other tradition and enjoyable aspect to the unique day cannot be replicated, suggesting otherwise is a bit odd.

KaneToad

Strumms wrote: »

Not really, having your Christmas dinner together, opening presents etc. and every other tradition and enjoyable aspect to the unique day cannot be replicated, suggesting otherwise is a bit odd.

Again, I'd disagree. There is nothing to stop you eating turkey and ham (if that's your idea of Christmas dinner) on the 26th/27th/28th etc. Likewise opening presents. Personally I find it odd that adults feel that all this can only be done on the 25th.

Obvious solution - I fill in for OP on the 25th 😉

Strumms

KaneToad wrote: »

Again, I'd disagree. There is nothing to stop you eating turkey and ham (if that's your idea of Christmas dinner) on the 26th/27th/28th etc. Likewise opening presents. Personally I find it odd that adults feel that all this can only be done on the 25th.

Obvious solution - I fill in for you on the 25th ��

We’ll have to agree to disagree

Ok, I’ll eat your dinner too

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Try and keep up...

I’ve already addressed the fact that ‘crucial services’ ie health, hospitals, care companies, Gardai, fire services must be working... its basically ‘preservation of life’ that makes them 100% necessary to be working. You know that from the moment you send in a cv, the same with one or two other professions... but there are others who work ONLY with a view to making money, who INSIST on staff being in to ‘make money’.

Again, it’s not up to you to decide what services are “crucial”. Providing tech support to a customer with a service contract may be crucial to a business. Should businesses here stop receiving support because of Thanksgiving in the US, the Chinese New Year on 25 January, etc?

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, it’s not up to you to decide what services are “crucial”. Providing tech support to a customer with a service contract may be crucial to a business. Should businesses here stop receiving support because of Thanksgiving in the US, the Chinese New Year on 25 January, etc?

I don’t ‘decide’ what are crucial services but last time I checked this was a fûcking forum where opinions could be expressed.. Tech support to a company might indeed be crucial or critical service ie. tech support for emergency services, ATMs etc... a mechanic might be critical and crucial I could go on.... many ‘services’ however that others want to provide can be non critical and are existing and opening and hauling people out of their homes with ‘profit’ as the sole motivation.

Jimbob1977

Very common in the customer services wing of mobile phone companies.

Customers are opening their brand new phones on Christmas morning and struggling with call credit, PUK codes, etc.

In my old company, they either got volunteers to work for triple pay... or drew lots.

qwerty13

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t ‘decide’ what are crucial services but last time I checked this was a fûcking forum where opinions could be expressed.. Tech support to a company might indeed be crucial or critical service ie. tech support for emergency services, ATMs etc... a mechanic might be critical and crucial I could go on.... many ‘services’ however that others want to provide can be non critical and are existing and opening and hauling people out of their homes with ‘profit’ as the sole motivation.

I highly doubt that it is profitable for most companies to have staff working on Christmas Day! Most companies offer a huge premium to employees to work that day.

splinter65

Strumms wrote: »

Try and keep up...

I’ve already addressed the fact that ‘crucial services’ ie health, hospitals, care companies, Gardai, fire services must be working... its basically ‘preservation of life’ that makes them 100% necessary to be working. You know that from the moment you send in a cv, the same with one or two other professions... but there are others who work ONLY with a view to making money, who INSIST on staff being in to ‘make money’.

Happily enough you don’t get to decide what a “crucial” service is.
If you have specific dates in the calendar that you aren’t available to work on then you need to specify that at the interview stage rather then get into a row about it at a later stage.

Strumms

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Very common in the customer services wing of mobile phone companies.

Customers are opening their brand new phones on Christmas morning and struggling with call credit, PUK codes, etc.

In my old company, they either got volunteers to work for triple pay... or drew lots.

Volunteerism is fine and dandy... just rostering isn’t in my view unless it’s a crucial service. Again phone services are pretty crucial too as a medium of communication for emergencies and so on, so some staffing would be required there...

If I’m living in Tel Aviv and on a particular day say Yom Kippur I fancy going for a beer and watching a movie... I CANT.... it’s not going to grind my gears, I’m not going to be pissîng and moaning, I’m going to deal with it, relax, enjoy taking a day out and looking at the calendar and planning for when I can...

Strumms

splinter65 wrote: »

Happily enough you don’t get to decide what a “crucial” service is.
If you have specific dates in the calendar that you aren’t available to work on then you need to specify that at the interview stage rather then get into a row about it at a later stage.

I don’t ‘decide’ but I think if anyone had half a working brain they can decipher what is and isn’t a crucial service , give it a shot anyway and see how you get on...

You don’t need to engage in that type of conversation in an interview, on receipt of a job offer, the time is then appropriate to discuss potential issues such as this.

Strumms

qwerty13 wrote: »

I highly doubt that it is profitable for most companies to have staff working on Christmas Day! Most companies offer a huge premium to employees to work that day.

Not profitable per say as in that day but they want to be seen to be ‘providing a service’ and available so their loyal customers get the horn for them.. ‘service is provided 365 days a year’.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t ‘decide’ but I think if anyone had half a working brain they can decipher what is and isn’t a crucial service , give it a shot anyway and see how you get on...

You don’t need to engage in that type of conversation in an interview, on receipt of a job offer, the time is then appropriate to discuss potential issues such as this.

For tech support, every day is a crucial day if you are contracted to provide it.

Kimbot

Strumms wrote: »

They are services, critical services, without any one of them people ARE going to die on Christmas Day. That cannot be argued.

For a ‘for profit’ business to open its just a bit prickish. It’s saying “yep for sure we want the opportunity to amass more money and in doing so we are going to try and deprive our staff from on this one day being able to relax and stay at home and enjoy with their loved ones because we want more money”. One day out of 365, but nope for some that’s a step too far.:rolleyes:

Right I'll give another example...... how about Santa brings a mobile phone to a child in your home. They are delighted on Christmas morning they got a new phone however when opened etc it doesnt work. You ring the operator and they are shut because of the holidays. I bet 9 out of 10 people would be fuming they were shut and would complain when they open.

However if they run a small staff in on christmas day they can avoid complaints and just help customers.

As I said, places been open on Christmas day is no new thing at all. When I worked in the shop 23 odd years ago it was not greed on behalf of the owner because for me to work that day I was on 4 times my normal wage and so was the manager that was in the shop with me. We done approx 180 work of sales for the few hours so no way it covered costs etc.

Wanderer78

Kimbot wrote:

Right I'll give another example...... how about Santa brings a mobile phone to a child in your home. They are delighted on Christmas morning they got a new phone however when opened etc it doesnt work. You ring the operator and they are shut because of the holidays. I bet 9 out of 10 people would be fuming they were shut and would complain when they open.

Surely waiting a day or two to resolve the issue wouldn't be the end of the world!

dragonfly!

qwerty13 wrote: »

I highly doubt that it is profitable for most companies to have staff working on Christmas Day! Most companies offer a huge premium to employees to work that day.

Normal bank hol pay where I work which is something like €13 an hour

dartboardio

My motto is you can't be forced to do anything you don't want, ever.


How important is this job to you OP?

Christmas day is a really important family day for me and I would never ever work it, even if I was offered €50 per hour. I never understand people who have the choice and are happy to work it..

Unless it was a job I loved and I was going to stay there for another few years... Id only work it if I really really had to OP!

Basically my answer is, I WOULD IN ME TREE!

Kimbot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Surely waiting a day or two to resolve the issue wouldn't be the end of the world!

Try tell that to a child thats in a strop because their Santa gift is not working.

El Tarangu

Strumms wrote: »

If I’m living in Tel Aviv and on a particular day say Yom Kippur I fancy going for a beer and watching a movie... I CANT.... it’s not going to grind my gears, I’m not going to be pissîng and moaning, I’m going to deal with it, relax, enjoy taking a day out and looking at the calendar and planning for when I can...

I'm not sure you're getting the point people are making:

Say I lived in Ireland, and the company the provided support for X service my business used was based in Israel. It's a weekday in October, and the service borks. I ring up customer support... and am greeted with a message that the company is closed, and won't be opening for the rest of the week.

Some businesses operate in multiple markets, and have to cater to all of their customers - it's always a business day somewhere in the world. Unfortunately, that means that people working in businesses that cater to these markets are rostered for shifts in the middle of the night, at weekends - and indeed, on Christmas day sometimes.

reg114

An employee is entitled to either a paid day off, a paid day off within a month of Christmas day, an additional day of annual leave or an additional day's pay. It is the employer's choice to choose any of the above they prefer.

If you request Christmas day off at least 21 days before Christmas, the employer must tell you which of the above you will be entitled to at least 14 days before Christmas day. If the employer doesn't do that then you can take the day off and get paid for it. This can be found in section 21 of the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997.

If you are a part time worker then you must have worked at least 40 hours altogether in the five weeks leading up to the public holiday to qualify for any benefits.

So the answer is yes, you can be expected to work on Christmas Day if you have not specifically requested it off or if you work for emergency services. If you do work Christmas however, you can expect to be compensated, either through an additional day's pay or an additional day of annual leave.

is_that_so

It might be useful to ask what the company policy is for Christmas and maybe put in for a day off. Most companies around that time are ghost towns.

SusieBlue

In the past I worked in a place that opened for Christmas and nobody wanted to work it, ever.
There was never a single volunteer for it, even colleagues from other cultures who didn't celebrate Christmas didn't want to work as they wanted to spend the day with friends etc. We weren't allowed request the day off using annual leave either.
Come to think of it, there were no annual leave requests taken for the whole month of December as it was our heaviest trade period of the year.