Parents.. would you encourage your adult children to go into Public Service??

Masala

Scenario.... if you had say a son recently qualified with a Business degree from university anfd he successfully got a job in say the Revenue Commissioners... would you advise to take it?

Or would you say to stay in private sector and move jobs every 3-4 years and gain a variety of experience??

... just throwing this out there to hear parents reactions!!

LillySV

Masala wrote: »

Scenario.... if you had say a son recently qualified with a Business degree from university anfd he successfully got a job in say the Revenue Commissioners... would you advise to take it?

Or would you say to stay in private sector and move jobs every 3-4 years and gain a variety of experience??

... just throwing this out there to hear parents reactions!!

Or would ya accept that he is an adult and freshly educated so should be able to make his own decisions on this matter ..

Sparkey84

Masala wrote: »

Scenario.... if you had say a son recently qualified with a Business degree from university anfd he successfully got a job in say the Revenue Commissioners... would you advise to take it?

Or would you say to stay in private sector and move jobs every 3-4 years and gain a variety of experience??

... just throwing this out there to hear parents reactions!!

im in public service and despite many advantages i would suggest To any of my family to stay out of it in that situation. if you see years of private sector employment on a cv it is translated to mean "that employee was worth keeping"
with years of experience in the public service you could be a great worker or you could be the closest thing to a chocolate ashtray that ever walked. no way to know as he would have kept his job anyway.

Sparkey84

LillySV wrote: »

Or would ya accept that he is an adult and freshly educated so should be able to make his own decisions on this matter ..

my kids are much younger but even when they are young adults i would like to offer guidance. the op is clearly trying to make their guidance informed and relevant. i think that's commendable as long as its not been offered in a binding way, and i see no evidence there is.

endacl

Kinda wish I'd followed this route.

I've a friend who's just 'retired' to the south of France. Joined the PS straight from college. Played his cards right. Completed several degrees and a postgrad while working. Got married. Bought a gaff when they were priced as gaffs should be, and raised the kids. Maxed his AVC contributions and was approved for early retirement. Sold the gaff for many multiples of what he'd paid for it, moved to France, and works away part time in a job that suits him.

The relevant bit, I suppose, is that as a PS worker, he was seen as a safe bet for a mortgage, which allowed him to buy big when he was young. And also, as a PS worker, he could study, have his courses paid for, and have time off to study.

He's not yet 50. Fair play.

That said, If he joined now, his pension wouldn't be worth a fart, and lenders would laugh at him. The opportunities to train and qualify further are still there though.

Truthful answer if their degree was so so and they were the type that appeared they were going to be an also-ran. I would say go for it.

If they had a good degree and looked like they were going to be in a position to be earing signifient money by early thirties I would say no don't tie your self to something like the civil services. The type who is going to get a of top-rated accountancy grad or the type who will be doing an MBA eventually.

I am not being disrespectful to civil servants because I suspect that at the top of the civil services, the kind of positions that have salaries of over 100k do not have the also-ran its highly competitive.

As more and more join the civil services entry level postions with a degree it will get harder and harder to move fordward on that basises alone.

Masala

LillySV wrote: »

Or would ya accept that he is an adult and freshly educated so should be able to make his own decisions on this matter ..

Grand.... but if he asking your advice on same- what do you say??? Don't think saying 'you're an big boy now - make up your own mind' is going to be very helpful

LillySV

LillySV wrote: »

Or would ya accept that he is an adult and freshly educated so should be able to make his own decisions on this matter ..

Yeah because a fresh graduate knows so much about the ways of the working world...
:rolleyes:

Wanderer78

I'd definitely encourage him to try it, and shur if it doesn't work out for him, he could go elsewhere, public or private

griffin100

Revenue I would definitely consider as the potential for directly transferable experience to industry is high. Other departments not so much perhaps.

AlanG

Some private sector experience will greatly aid progression in the civil service. If they want a reasonable job then the civil service is great but it is very easy to get trapped at a level as there is less pressure to up skill than in the private sector. If they are able to motivate themselves then progression to HEO level can be straight forward enough with some hard work. After that the competition is difficult, there are no inline promotions in the civil service any more so all jobs go by way of a competition. At AP level and above the candidates can be very strong and will often have experience across multiple departments.
The new civil service pension is not that good so it will be better in many private sector companies but it is a good place to work if you have a family or value other things above money.
If the job they got was an AO position in revenue I would definitely say go for it and take a career break after a few years. AO positions for graduates are excellent and have a very good pay scale.

nthclare

I'm a public sector worker myself, my son isn't very academic and finds studying and exams hard.

Id love him to get into the public sector even if it was recycling or something.
He's quite clever in his own way, but would prefer to get a job rather than go through another 4 year's of college.

If he had a secure job at least he'd have a future and some security

LegallyAbroad

Depends on what part of the public service and at what level?

Are we taking about the Data Commissioners Officer or Mayo County Council?

The Foreign Service or the CSO?

The Office of the Attorney General or the Prison Service?

HSE or UCD?

Etc., Etc.,

Personally, I think a mix of both is useful. A lot of public servants now either start their career or spend significant chunks of it in the private sector anyway.

A binary mind-set in this regard isn't very useful.

For Revenue specifically, it again depends on what part and what stream, but there are certain parts of Revenue (e.g. Customs at the moment) where you'd get experience that can't be got anywhere else and would be very valuable in the private if he/she wished to make the switch later.

Plumbthedepths

My son completed a degree course and went back to gain his master's. I encouraged him to apply for AGS 3 years ago. He is now a serving Guard on an excellent wage and on a higher amount due to his collage degree. Happily he loves the job ,the security and benefits are a major source of comfort to him. The younger lad has no interest in AGS but is interested in finance and economics. Will definitely try to steer him towards the civil service as a graduate. He is currently doing a 4 year degree course in finance.

Larbre34

nthclare wrote: »

I'm a public sector worker myself, my son isn't very academic and finds studying and exams hard.

Id love him to get into the public sector even if it was recycling or something.
He's quite clever in his own way, but would prefer to get a job rather than go through another 4 year's of college.

If he had a secure job at least he'd have a future and some security

There are many happy mediums between qualified professional and unskilled labourer. Many!

Truthfully, if I had a kid now I'd be recommending a trade for him.

LillySV

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah because a fresh graduate knows so much about the ways of the working world...
:rolleyes:

The ones that don’t are the ones that have been mollycoddled for years, and by continuing to mollycoddle them and continue to make decisions for them... then they won’t change

Anyways I’ll give my opinion now so . When the economy is booming , private sector pays way more , more opportunities, more exciting work etc.... when there is a recession/ depression in market.... then it’s good to be in civil services as job more secure ...

That’s the difference.... private sectors better pay and opportunities

Civil service is the less paid but safer job

Revenue is best-in-class

Whatever else, a few years experience and training there would only be a positive thing imo

AndrewJRenko

endacl wrote: »

Kinda wish I'd followed this route.

I've a friend who's just 'retired' to the south of France. Joined the PS straight from college. Played his cards right. Completed several degrees and a postgrad while working. Got married. Bought a gaff when they were priced as gaffs should be, and raised the kids. Maxed his AVC contributions and was approved for early retirement. Sold the gaff for many multiples of what he'd paid for it, moved to France, and works away part time in a job that suits him.

The relevant bit, I suppose, is that as a PS worker, he was seen as a safe bet for a mortgage, which allowed him to buy big when he was young. And also, as a PS worker, he could study, have his courses paid for, and have time off to study.

He's not yet 50. Fair play.

That said, If he joined now, his pension wouldn't be worth a fart, and lenders would laugh at him. The opportunities to train and qualify further are still there though.

This doesn't add up. If he joined the public service at age 22 in 1993, he'd have about 27 years service now. Actuarial reduced early retirement is very unusual at present, and only available from age 50. If he's on a salary of 80k now, his pension from age 50 would be in the region of 17k. He wouldn't qualify for the state contributory old age pension.

You'd want a hell of a lot of AVCs to bring that up to something decent.

Pronto63

After a lifetime in the private sector (managerial positions) I found myself out of work when the recession hit.
Would have been safe in the CS.
Joined the CS, as a CO, 4 years ago and was promoted to EO 2 years ago. Happy with my lot and to be honest while I could earn more in the private sector I'm at that stage in life where job security is everything.

As another poster said if your child is going to set the world on fire in the private sector then they should give it a go. If they're an average Joe then the service has a lot of advantages.

They could always end up as a high flyer in the service.

Another thing about the CS, besides security, is the work life balance:
1. Generous leave
2. Family friendly policies.
3. Shorter working year
4. Flexitime - this gives the possibility of an extra day and a 1/2 per month off. That's 19 and a half days per year!

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

There are many happy mediums between qualified professional and unskilled labourer. Many!

Truthfully, if I had a kid now I'd be recommending a trade for him.

In a few years there are going to be major electrical companies setting up and looking for people, men and women, to apprentice and practice as electricians: these will be tbe companies that do mass installations and maintenance of vehicle charging points in private estates/apartments. I live in (owner occupier) such a complex and made enquiries as to when installations might be envisaged, and the maintenance-management company told me there is a demand for such beginning to emerge but as yet no electrical company who will take this work on as they don’t have the Human Resources. Within the next several years a huge demand for electricians is going to emerge-watch that space.

y0ssar1an22

Public sector has many benefits. You'll prob never be a millionaire, but work/life, pension, security. I'd transfer to public sector right now if given the opportunity

HartsHat

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Public sector has many benefits. You'll prob never be a millionaire, but work/life, pension, security. I'd transfer to public sector right now if given the opportunity

Open competitions all the time. One just closed for Principal Officer.

HartsHat

Pronto63 wrote: »

After a lifetime in the private sector (managerial positions) I found myself out of work when the recession hit.
Would have been safe in the CS.
Joined the CS, as a CO, 4 years ago and was promoted to EO 2 years ago. Happy with my lot and to be honest while I could earn more in the private sector I'm at that stage in life where job security is everything.

As another poster said if your child is going to set the world on fire in the private sector then they should give it a go. If they're an average Joe then the service has a lot of advantages.

They could always end up as a high flyer in the service.

Another thing about the CS, besides security, is the work life balance:
1. Generous leave
2. Family friendly policies.
3. Shorter working year
4. Flexitime - this gives the possibility of an extra day and a 1/2 per month off. That's 19 and a half days per year!

Just on this, I moved from the private sector to civil service.

My leave was worse and flexitime does not apply to officers from assistant principal grade and up. My working year also isn't any shorter.

It is however more family friendly.

uck51js9zml2yt

HartsHat wrote: »

Just on this, I moved from the private sector to civil service.

My leave was worse and flexitime does not apply to officers from assistant principal grade and up. My working year also isn't any shorter.

It is however more family friendly.

The key is to get a day "working" from home.
Had an AP who worked from home one day a week. The drug addict on the street knew she did shag all.

Rubberchikken

No.

But at the same time id figure that as an adult he could make his own decisions.

PhilOssophy

Have tried both sides of the fence.
It depends where and what he's doing. For me, there is nothing quite like the cut and thrust of the private sector. You work your ass off as a commerce graduate in one of the big 5, you can make very quick progression.
If I was advising my son, I'd say go private sector first and then go public sector when kids/security become paramount.
I dont mean to pee over the public sector as there's good and bad departments as well as people, Revenue would be the cream of the crop but it depends what they plan for him to do there as well.
If it was me, I'd tough it out for a few years in the private sector first.

Elemonator

State pension won't exist when he retires. Might be a good move. My neighbour did very well out of it.

mdwexford

Out of interest why is everyone championing Revenue so highly?

Pete_Cavan

LillySV wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah because a fresh graduate knows so much about the ways of the working world...
:rolleyes:

The ones that don’t are the ones that have been mollycoddled for years, and by continuing to mollycoddle them and continue to make decisions for them... then they won’t change.

Er no, a young person can be independent and well able to make decisions for themselves but still want the advice of their parents or other knowledgeable adults.. If anything, it suggests that they are well rounded to be willing to take the advice of others rather than assuming they know it all.

Augme

Ah his age I think he'd be crazy to go into the public sector. He has nothing to tie him down and no real need for job security at a young age. Public sector has it benefits if you are either or married, have kids, or have a mortgage. A young single person should note be prioritising job security.

bizidea

Worked on both sides of the fence found the area of ps I was in mind numbingly boring nothing to do most days and all day to do it and when there was something to be done it was just dragged out. A lot of people working together with a lot of time on their hands does not create a good work environment a lot of petty bitching and fighting.in 5 years working there I can honestly say the amount of work that was carried out would have been got through in about 6 month's in the private sector. Would not recommend it for a young person as they would never get any real experience that would be of much benefits in the private sector.I think you would be better off starting off in the private sector and maybe when you need a more steady number for mortgage or family move into the public service but maybe I was just in a bad area of the public sector

As a young person, would he want to be in a place where people are forever pissing and moaning about their conditions?

We hear enough of it on the news at various times of threatened strike, I can't imagine what it's like day in day out.

Some areas are more like this than others ... those that Blair Horan represented were a particular example

Likeabossboss

LillySV wrote: »

Or would ya accept that he is an adult and freshly educated so should be able to make his own decisions on this matter ..

Fair play to the OPs mother I’d say looking out for their child and helping what’s best for his career. Better off to plan your career and moving job regularly when young to gain more expierence and get a higher salary.

I work in IT in programming and moved Country to get a job in a company where I wanted to work.

May mother’s response was “There’s plenty of jobs at reception in hotels around us that use computers, why move?”

She still doesn’t understand what I do and mentions reception jobs to me the whole time to come back home. I think she thinks I’m a receptionist! Haha

Masala

As the OP..... my thoughts are as follows:

1. Take it and try it for a year.
2. The Salary is good, job is local and he can live at home til he decides what h wants to do on accommodation front.
3. Suss out the promotion prospects and avail of training while there.
4. In a year... if he doesn't like ... then leave.
5. If he can stick til he can take a 'career -break' - take the break and go back to the private sector and see how he gets on knowing he still has a job to revert to.
6. If he doesn't take this..... might be harder to get back in later in life.
7. The holidays (28 days) + flexi etc gives good work/play balance

He also has an immediate offer .... who knows when the next (local ) offer will come around.


Just for he record..... he is only asking my advice. he is also asking others advice. He will do as he pleases in the end!

machiavellianme

Pronto63 wrote: »

After a lifetime in the private sector (managerial positions) I found myself out of work when the recession hit.
Would have been safe in the CS.
Joined the CS, as a CO, 4 years ago and was promoted to EO 2 years ago. Happy with my lot and to be honest while I could earn more in the private sector I'm at that stage in life where job security is everything.

As another poster said if your child is going to set the world on fire in the private sector then they should give it a go. If they're an average Joe then the service has a lot of advantages.

They could always end up as a high flyer in the service.

Another thing about the CS, besides security, is the work life balance:
1. Generous leave
2. Family friendly policies.
3. Shorter working year
4. Flexitime - this gives the possibility of an extra day and a 1/2 per month off. That's 19 and a half days per year!

How? Last time I checked, there were just 12 months in a year. Are they forcing staff to work an extra one?

Scammell

Go for PS and do something else on the side. PS has no strain, no pressure, overly unionised and loads of time (even when in work!) to do your own thing. Cushy and handy money as time goes on.

Jim2007

LillySV wrote: »

The ones that don’t are the ones that have been mollycoddled for years, and by continuing to mollycoddle them and continue to make decisions for them... then they won’t change

Anyways I’ll give my opinion now so . When the economy is booming , private sector pays way more , more opportunities, more exciting work etc.... when there is a recession/ depression in market.... then it’s good to be in civil services as job more secure ...

That’s the difference.... private sectors better pay and opportunities

Civil service is the less paid but safer job

Except that senior Revenue officers can land very well paying positions in accounting firms and progress to partnership. And it's recession proof - tax consulting is always in demand..... and in thirty years I've never heard of any of my former tax colleagues being let go.

Personally I don't get involved in my kids career decision, it's up to them what they decide to do and if they make a mistake they are young enough to correct it if it does not work out.

ted1

LillySV wrote: »

Or would ya accept that he is an adult and freshly educated so should be able to make his own decisions on this matter ..

So you reckon your kids don’t need guidance. They have no experience, with private or public sector after college. You need to step up and parent them.

HartsHat

Masala wrote: »

As the OP..... my thoughts are as follows:

1. Take it and try it for a year.
2. The Salary is good, job is local and he can live at home til he decides what h wants to do on accommodation front.
3. Suss out the promotion prospects and avail of training while there.
4. In a year... if he doesn't like ... then leave.
5. If he can stick til he can take a 'career -break' - take the break and go back to the private sector and see how he gets on knowing he still has a job to revert to.
6. If he doesn't take this..... might be harder to get back in later in life.
7. The holidays (28 days) + flexi etc gives good work/play balance

He also has an immediate offer .... who knows when the next (local ) offer will come around.


Just for he record..... he is only asking my advice. he is also asking others advice. He will do as he pleases in the end!

No PS job starts with 28 days leave and has flexi.

gmisk

I can recommend the public service if you are a hard worker and go for panels etc you can move up, it can be a bit easier if you are in a more of a general area (I have always been in ICT).
It wasn't easy opportunity wise during the recession but I joined as a CO and am now an AP, I have worked in 4 different organisations in different roles.
Work also paid for my masters and fair whack of other training and qualifications.

Revenue would be a decent place to go imo

gmisk

mdwexford wrote: »

Out of interest why is everyone championing Revenue so highly?

I can only speak from an ICT point of view but they would be seen as fairly progressive for PS with a lot good and interesting projects on the go

gmisk

HartsHat wrote: »

No PS job starts with 28 days leave and has flexi.

When I started in PS I got flexi straight away I think but defo not 28 days annual leave.

what does heo leave start at these days

TimeToShine

Masala wrote: »

As the OP..... my thoughts are as follows:

1. Take it and try it for a year.
2. The Salary is good, job is local and he can live at home til he decides what h wants to do on accommodation front.
3. Suss out the promotion prospects and avail of training while there.
4. In a year... if he doesn't like ... then leave.
5. If he can stick til he can take a 'career -break' - take the break and go back to the private sector and see how he gets on knowing he still has a job to revert to.
6. If he doesn't take this..... might be harder to get back in later in life.
7. The holidays (28 days) + flexi etc gives good work/play balance

He also has an immediate offer .... who knows when the next (local ) offer will come around.


Just for he record..... he is only asking my advice. he is also asking others advice. He will do as he pleases in the end!

He won't be allowed work in the private sector while on a career break, and using the term "stick it out" for a 21/22 year old is grim, they're the last person who should have that kind of mentality.

Agree that Revenue is considered the "premium" stream in the public sector but I still wouldn't bother if another offer comes in.

road_high

I worked initially in the PS on various contracts but the recession hit and I lost my job there. Took a while but found my feet in the private sector and tbh wouldn’t go back there- it’s far too rigid and controlled an environment. In a good private sector job do long as you’re doing the work and having an impact I find my employer completely trusting and flexible- they’re not interested in the clock watching and rigidity of tying you to a desk 37.5 hours per week- that’s another thing I think the working week has increased in the public service too.
Also the benefits like company cars etc are unheard of. As a graduate again I personally wouldn’t go into the PS but I think it suits sone people especially working mothers. Can see a growing gender gap going on there too

HartsHat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what does heo leave start at these days

I'm not sure, but you can't join the PS as a HEO (it's the last closed grade).

Rikand

I worked private sector for 15 years before joining the civil service. Private sector teaches you how to work. A lot of people who are in the civil service have no idea how to work and it's to there detriment in the long run imo for advancements.

I'd encourage private sector for a few years and get good work experience. Go public then after a while for job security and assured advancements as you'll be able to demonstrate you can work

AndrewJRenko

HartsHat wrote: »

I'm not sure, but you can't join the PS as a HEO (it's the last closed grade).

That's not true. There were rounds of ICT HEO competitions this year.

road_high

Rikand wrote: »

I worked private sector for 15 years before joining the civil service. Private sector teaches you how to work. A lot of people who are in the civil service have no idea how to work and it's to there detriment in the long run imo for advancements.

I'd encourage private sector for a few years and get good work experience. Go public then after a while for job security and assured advancements as you'll be able to demonstrate you can work

Would agree with that- planning your work and teamwork much more emphasised in the private sector jobs I had. PS job much more like working in your own little silo

_Brian

Our eldest is 17 and is planning on being a teacher.
She’s already a fully qualified swim teacher and loves working with the kids.

Am absolutely in full support. People should do wit they feel is right for them.

mvl

Something doesn't add up to me (maybe cause I've only lived here a bit more than a decade)

- But is it really OK do do a business degree and then work in PS ? Honestly, I would have thought business degree holders have other aspirations.