What if NCT testing never got introduced?

mondeo

More then likely there would still be plenty of way older cars on the road. The NCT rightly took all the sh!t off the road, but there was many cars that people scrapped that probably didn't need much to pass it's first NCT. I remember an Uncle of mine scrapping a Sierra so he could get a brand new Fiat Punto on the scrappage scheme back in probably 1999... What a sh!te move.

I often wonder if car testing never happened here. I have been to plenty of countries over the years that have no real car testing in place and it's a time warp to see all the old stuff on the road on a daily basis like Peugeot 505's, all sorts of old Nissans, Mazdas and they all seem to be running well.

Why did people go mad when the NCT came in ? The Fiat Punto was pushed towards new car buyers, and people were buying them like Apple pies. Was there no other car people could have got on the scrappage scheme of the late 90's other then a crappy Punto ? What else were they pushing ?

Atlantic Dawn

Well just on the road with the shorter evenings at least 20% of cars have lighting issues, if there was no NCT most of these drivers would only think of checking their headlights when both of them were blown. The lack of any knowledge that a complete fool should know about tyres or lights is comical.

Wildly Boaring

We're a disaster of a country for car maintenance.
The NCT was a great introduction and if it were up to me it would be half the price and annual.

Idiots out there with one headlamp, bald tyres, missing indicators etc.
We've a neighbour and I swear he only washes the car for the NCT.
Was in a car the other day and brake warning light was on. "Must get that sorted for the NCT"

Was dead right to get the dangerous scrap off the road.

K.Flyer

The "scrappage scheme" is what caused the scrapping of reasonably good condition older cars years ago and was all to do with trying to rejuvenate new car sales and was no more than a marketing ploy to get people back into borrowing for a new car.
The NCT is a different thing altogether, as fairly new cars can still fail the test, whether it's only a bulb, or something more serious.

Old diesel

mondeo wrote: »

More then likely there would still be plenty of way older cars on the road. The NCT rightly took all the sh!t off the road, but there was many cars that people scrapped that probably didn't need much to pass it's first NCT. I remember an Uncle of mine scrapping a Sierra so he could get a brand new Fiat Punto on the scrappage scheme back in probably 1999... What a sh!te move.

I often wonder if car testing never happened here. I have been to plenty of countries over the years that have no real car testing in place and it's a time warp to see all the old stuff on the road on a daily basis like Peugeot 505's, all sorts of old Nissans, Mazdas and they all seem to be running well.

Why did people go mad when the NCT came in ? The Fiat Punto was pushed towards new car buyers, and people were buying them like Apple pies. Was there no other car people could have got on the scrappage scheme of the late 90's other then a crappy Punto ? What else were they pushing ?

You could get ANY new car on the official scrappage.

Could have bought a Primera for example if that car suited your budget.

The Fiat was a highly attractive offering in the Mk 1 Punto era brand new. Even the whole rust stigma had died down a bit because of the promotion of galvanised steel with the Fiat Tipo and Tempra.

The space inside was stupidly large for the size of the thing - so you could downsize easier.

The money looked quite small for the fact you were getting into a new car.

A perfectly acceptable car at the time as basic A to B transport.

I wouldn't be running to add the Mk 1 Punto to my all time greatest car lists but you had to admire Fiat's clever space utilisation.

As for the old cars if no NCT - the whole idea of "scrap it - it's not worth fixing" had already set in before NCT.

So id say your typical Mk 4 Escort or Mk 1/2 Orion, Bluebirds, Asconas etc were all headed for scrap as soon as a gearbox or engine would fail.

Never mind any rust issues.

You might see cars hang on a year or two longer sometimes if no NCT.

But ultimately Irish people didn't want to deal with old cars if they can have a newer one.

Hotblack Desiato

mondeo wrote: »

Why did people go mad when the NCT came in ?

Because people are clueless

Same as city drivers buying diesels for "cheap tax" then getting stuck with huge repair bills.

When I first moved to Ireland in mid 90's my housemate in Phibsboro had about '83 vintage Toyota Corolla in white as a daily driver with no outer sills and rust also coming through the top of front wings etc. Had never seen a car like that on the road anywhere before. I was always worried that the car would fold when he opened two doors at a time.

Pretty sure it wasn't the only one like that on the road. I can only imagine what the more rural cars looked like those times.

BENDYBINN

Shame really,cars with a different colored door or wing are now almost extinct.

satguy

It's just another stealth / household Tax .

And the list of things they can fail you for, gets longer and more ridiculous every year.

MrMusician18

satguy wrote: »

It's just another stealth / household Tax .

And the list of things they can fail you for, gets longer and more ridiculous every year.

BS. Before the test, something like 10% of fatalities were due to defective cars.

It was long overdue getting the ****e held together with baling twine off the road.

mickdw

The punto was offered on a stupidly good finance deal making it easily accessible for almost anyone.
I know someone who bought one and it was one month instalment up front as a deposit. Might have been 149 per month or so.

mickdw

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Shame really,cars with a different colored door or wing are now almost extinct.

I've seen them make a bit of a comeback in the last couple of years for whatever reason.
Passed a sky blue focus yesterday with a navy wing.

tcawley29

satguy wrote: »

It's just another stealth / household Tax .

And the list of things they can fail you for, gets longer and more ridiculous every year.

Probably the stupidest comment I've seen in a while. Car maintenance is still brutal in Ireland too.

Something is only looked at by quite an astonishing number of people only when the NCT is due because they'd fail otherwise.
We have geniuses who could pass today, have a bulb go tomorrow and wait until the next NCT to fix it.

mondeo

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Shame really,cars with a different colored door or wing are now almost extinct.

I remember this side of motoring lol. Cars driving around with rust holes on top of the fenders and rotten rear arches, blown exhausts were everyday occurrences, smokey engines due to knackeredness. It was all perfectly legal to.

I was in South America several years ago and it was amazing to see really old 60's cars were still knocking about with all sorts of non standard parts just to keep them running. Old 60's and 70's Ford saloons and estate type cars with an engine from a 90's van under the bonnet, unbelievable.

Grab All Association

MrMusician18 wrote: »

BS. Before the test, something like 10% of fatalities were due to defective cars.

It was long overdue getting the ****e held together with baling twine off the road.

I agree but It isn’t perfect though. They failed to notice serious mechanical issue on a Nissan Almera that was involved in a fatal collision days/weeks after passing . A poster on here with a cut and shut BMW they failed to spot it. I think it should be free as well as they’ve failed some cars in the past for the most ridiculous reasons. Tear on the side of a seat was one of them.

Hotblack Desiato

mickdw wrote: »

The punto was offered on a stupidly good finance deal making it easily accessible for almost anyone.
I know someone who bought one and it was one month instalment up front as a deposit. Might have been 149 per month or so.

Buy cheap buy twice.

They were in bits by 5 or 6 years old.

Eoinbmw

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Buy cheap buy twice.

They were in bits by 5 or 6 years old.

Pretty much like a Diesel BMW then!

mickdw

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

The punto was offered on a stupidly good finance deal making it easily accessible for almost anyone.
I know someone who bought one and it was one month instalment up front as a deposit. Might have been 149 per month or so.

Buy cheap buy twice.

They were in bits by 5 or 6 years old.

Ya but with no deposit on the initial deal,
It didn't really bother too many.

Andrewf20

I generally own fairly old cars and I dread the prospect of an nct but in reality theres no better feeling than getting that cert. 95% of the NCT is certainly worthwhile as well as offering peace of mind when buying older cars.

Some of the fails are ridiculous though. The old mans omega failed for headlamp washers & wipers missing even though most cars dont even have them in the first place. The main dealers were quoting some mad figure of 300 euro to get them and he couldnt get in GSF / Otto etc.

BrianD3

Average age of car fleets in the EU by country 1980-1997
https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/ENVISSUENo12/page031.html

Average age in 1980 in Ireland was only 4.6 years.

I haven't seen a table for post 1997 but googling suggests that in more recent years, the average age of a car in Ireland has been in the 6 to 9 years range.

If there was no NCT and no scrappage schemes, there might be some more older cars on the road but I think consumerism and the availablity of credit are much more significant influences on the age of the vehicle fleet than the NCT is. Scrappage schemes have only been available for limited periods i.e. 1995-1997 and 2010-2011.

Also, with no NCT cars might be neglected so badly that they might actually have a shorter lifespan as problems are allowed to fester.

On the other hand, cars potentially last far longer than they did previously I have a 99 Megane that is holding up extremely well in terms of rust resistance, even the brake lines are original and rust free. Also I was thinking recently about how many 110 series Corollas I see still in daily use, paint may be faded in some cases but bodywork seems to be very long lasting.

antodeco

I've rescued 3 cars that would've been scrapped due to the NCT. A small bit of a fortune into them, and now I have 3 classic/vintage cars, that will only go up in value!

Eric Cartman

lets be honest, if we'd no nct, the amount of quasqai's and kajar's that would be sliding sideways into the verge of a roundabout and bursting into flames on any day with a bit of frost would be criminal. Motor factors would be half out of business, the amount of oil, power steering fluid and coolant pouring onto the roads would make them into an ice rink, and a full set of working shocks would be non existant on a car over 5 years old.

mikeecho

antodeco wrote: »

I've rescued 3 cars that would've been scrapped due to the NCT. A small bit of a fortune into them, and now I have 3 classic/vintage cars, that will only go up in value!

You've rescued cars that would have been driven on for a few more years, each year in a more dangerous state, until they either died or killed.

So in conclusion...

Well done to you .
Well done for the NCT.

Ubbquittious

It is hard to know if having the NCT means cars stay on the road for longer or shorter

I think longer. Until they copped on and made it annual for cars over 10 years. Dirty FG bastids had to ruin it again

greasepalm

The nct is a good money making scheme with all those things that can fail and needing a paid retest,many customers come in to get a pre nct and pass and great car is ok for another year but i remind them last service was done 2 years ago and it is overdue.Regular maintenance on any car on the road and how to check a simple thing open the bonnet and know where things are.
Why are people so stupid as cannot see a reflection on vehicle on front to see their lights working or rear view mirror up against a wall.
Luckily my old car is 30 yrs old and still functions for many years to come 2 year nct and 56 euro road tax which is helped in the extra under body sealing done many years ago.

tuxy

greasepalm wrote: »

The nct is a good money making scheme

How much does revenue make from the NCT annually? How much does the private company who do the tests make?
I'd like to know how big of a money making scheme it is.

krissovo

The NCT was actually implemented really well, each center has the same kit and the standards apart from the odd car that falls through the cracks are consistent.

Compare to the UK MOT where there are well known MOT centers who would pass any old shoite that rolls up for a extra £50 and the standards of equipment between test centers that range from crap to overkill.

I doubt there is big money being made by anyone, €55 for a ~30 minute test by a technician plus admin, training etc is not exactly being ripped off. If it was annual then yes possibly a rip off but biannual is a good frequency.

the_syco

The NCT is a load of bollox, but it does force people to look after their cars.

I'd say the limit to how old insurance covers a car is the cause for more cars to be scrapped than the NCT, though.

tuxy

firstlight wrote: »

It's all about revenue

I keep seeing this so I'll ask again.
How much revenue you does it generate?

Keplar240B

MrMusician18 wrote: »

BS. Before the test, something like 10% of fatalities were due to defective cars.

It was long overdue getting the ****e held together with baling twine off the road.

Do you have a source for that?
And do you know what it is now?

tuxy

firstlight wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/rsa-extends-nct-provider-s-10-year-contract-by-six-months-1.3580925%3fmode=amp

The figures in your link show the profits of private company Applus Car Testing Service, did you even read it?
How much do the Revenue Commissioners profit from the NCT annually?

antodeco

mikeecho wrote: »

You've rescued cars that would have been driven on for a few more years, each year in a more dangerous state, until they either died or killed.

So in conclusion...

Well done to you .
Well done for the NCT.

Partially yes. One of the cars failed due to one of the indicators not being orange enough (required a new light cluster for €200+), as well as failing due to emissions (needed a new backbox for around €500). Not exactly safety issues, but too costly for someone to warrant investing back into the car.

hi5

Take someone with a new car doing 50000 km a year commuting, that's 200000 km before any test needed, that's a lot of potential bald tyres, blown bulbs, cracked windscreens etc.
My car is 17 years old, 100000 km and is tested every 5000 km as that's my annual mileage, yet my car is considered the dangerous one.

Old diesel

krissovo wrote: »

The NCT was actually implemented really well, each center has the same kit and the standards apart from the odd car that falls through the cracks are consistent.

Compare to the UK MOT where there are well known MOT centers who would pass any old shoite that rolls up for a extra £50 and the standards of equipment between test centers that range from crap to overkill.

I doubt there is big money being made by anyone, €55 for a ~30 minute test by a technician plus admin, training etc is not exactly being ripped off. If it was annual then yes possibly a rip off but biannual is a good frequency.

I think Greaspalm meants the motor trade.

Cars that would normally never see a garage are forced to come in to get NCT related work done.

Whether it's a pre test or fixing failure items.

Muller1991

Passed the NCT yesterday after the third retest, I've no issues with the retest itself as there was an issue with a brake line, However in the space of two weeks Ive had to pay €111.00 Just for testing alone.

I feel that you should only have to pay the €55.00 for the initial test and you shouldn't have to pay for the retest at all. Thats why I imagine some people think it's a money racket.

On another point , When I got my NCT Cert there was another person who failed and was advised that it was a dangerous fault. The tester advised the person that they should not be driving said car, Person just drove off in the car , Are they not suppose to keep the car there if considered dangerous ?

grogi

Grab All Association wrote: »

I agree but It isn’t perfect though. They failed to notice serious mechanical issue on a Nissan Almera that was involved in a fatal collision days/weeks after passing . A poster on here with a cut and shut BMW they failed to spot it. I think it should be free as well as they’ve failed some cars in the past for the most ridiculous reasons. Tear on the side of a seat was one of them.

Of course it is not perfect. Nothing is. It can be improved, but IMHO it has been a huge success. The standard of vehicle maintenance and most importantly safety has increased significantly.

NCT is not here to make sure every car is safe. It is to make sure that each car is looked at at least once two years. If they deteriorate over those two years, it is from much higer level... Without NCT many of those cars would not get even that miserable treatment.

grogi

antodeco wrote: »

Partially yes. One of the cars failed due to one of the indicators not being orange enough (required a new light cluster for €200+), as well as failing due to emissions (needed a new backbox for around €500). Not exactly safety issues, but too costly for someone to warrant investing back into the car.

If the car fails on emissions, it definitely is not safe. For all the people, animals and plants around.

grogi

Muller1991 wrote: »

Passed the NCT yesterday after the third retest, I've no issues with the retest itself as there was an issue with a brake line, However in the space of two weeks Ive had to pay €111.00 Just for testing alone.

I feel that you should only have to pay the €55.00 for the initial test and you shouldn't have to pay for the retest at all. Thats why I imagine some people think it's a money racket.

But in that case there would be no incentive to keep the cars in good condition.
Have the car in good nick and you'll not 'get robbed'. I have never paid for a retest...

grogi

hi5 wrote: »

Take someone with a new car doing 50000 km a year commuting, that's 200000 km before any test needed, that's a lot of potential bald tyres, blown bulbs, cracked windscreens etc.
My car is 17 years old, 100000 km and is tested every 5000 km as that's my annual mileage, yet my car is considered the dangerous one.

There is nothing personal. It's statistics.

Muller1991

grogi wrote: »

But in that case there would be no incentive to keep the cars in good condition.
Have the car in good nick and you'll not 'get robbed'. I have never paid for a retest...

If its only a visual you don't have to pay the €28.00, Have you ever had a retest where it wasn't a visual ? and if so how did you not pay ?

grogi

Muller1991 wrote: »

If its only a visual you don't have to pay the €28.00, Have you ever had a retest where it wasn't a visual ? and if so how did you not pay ?

No, I haven't. That's the whole point... I care about the condition of the metal tin that can accelerate me to 120km/h - because it is my life that depends on it.

orm0nd

a family memeber has 06 avensis that failed on severely corroded brake pipe,

mechanic doing the repair rang and asked if he was sure it was the pipe as it was only slightly discoloured and there was more serious issue with some link arm or something , both issues were fixed b4 retest

actually the car was back with toyota a week before for air bag recall and was given a free "safety check" and passed

nct is a good thing in a way but I would still get a good realible mechanic to check an aged car over every so often , not the first time we had some serious issues missed and then get a fail for something like a slightly worn pedal rubber.

Muller1991

orm0nd wrote: »

a family memeber has 06 avensis that failed on severely corroded brake pipe,

mechanic doing the repair rang and asked if he was sure it was the pipe as it was only slightly discoloured and there was more serious issue with some link arm or something , both issues were fixed b4 retest

actually the car was back with toyota a week before for air bag recall and was given a free "safety check" and passed

nct is a good thing in a way but I would still get a good realible mechanic to check an aged car over every so often , not the first time we had some serious issues missed and then get a fail for something like a slightly worn pedal rubber.

Thats what my initial fail was got the pipe fixed and still not good enough for NCT, Mechanic checked over the pipe again and found nothing wrong with it at all , he replaced again with a new part and this time round it passed.

zilog_jones

antodeco wrote: »

Partially yes. One of the cars failed due to one of the indicators not being orange enough (required a new light cluster for €200+), as well as failing due to emissions (needed a new backbox for around €500). Not exactly safety issues, but too costly for someone to warrant investing back into the car.

Why was a new light cluster "required"? I can think of many cheap DIY options to make a light look orange enough to pass the NCT. Arguably it is a safety issue as they need to be discernible from other lights (even if the flasher relay fails they're still a different colour), only pre mid-'64 cars don't need amber indicators.

dsmythy

Muller1991 wrote: »

Passed the NCT yesterday after the third retest, I've no issues with the retest itself as there was an issue with a brake line, However in the space of two weeks Ive had to pay €111.00 Just for testing alone.

I feel that you should only have to pay the €55.00 for the initial test and you shouldn't have to pay for the retest at all. Thats why I imagine some people think it's a money racket.

That wont work in favour of encouraging people to look after their car. They could literally do nothing except what the NCT tells them for their guaranteed 55 Euro. The more it costs with extra testing the more you'd hope people will try at least get the simpler things done.

Obviously this is unfavourable to those dealing with a centre telling them there's something wrong where there seemingly isn't but that's just one of the flaws.

But what some people want is more time consuming and more expensive so we're stuck with the format we have.

Philb76

I know plenty of people men and women who say it's only a 4 year old car wot can possibly be wrong with it so I'm very much for the nct the lack of routine maintenance in the country is staggering needs a new clutch let's a new car this one is done road deaths are way down on years ago with more cars on the roads than ever I know better roads safer cars and thankfully drink driving isn't acceptable now but the nct surely has something to do with this as well

greasepalm

I find drinking and driving is very hard while using mobile phone:eek::eek::eek::D

Sleeper12

Average road deaths were over 400 per year before NCT was introduced. It's well under 200 per year now. Not much more to be said really imo.

Brand new Ladas couldn't pass the NCT all Ladas vanashed off Irish roads in the space of one or two years. These cars were death traps

whisky_galore

The country would be like a damp version of Cuba. Cars held together with baler twine, chewing gum and hope.

BrianD3

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Average road deaths were over 400 per year before NCT was introduced. It's well under 200 per year now. Not much more to be said really imo.

Brand new Ladas couldn't pass the NCT all Ladas vanashed off Irish roads in the space of one or two years. These cars were death traps

The reduction in road deaths is mostly due to EuroNCAP and improvements in safety engineering (both active and passive) of new cars. The introduction of the NCT will have been a much less significant factor.

If anyone wants to debate the above - road deaths have dropped dramatically in every European country since the late 90s even in those which, unlike Ireland, already had a good motorway network, roadworthiness testing of vehicles and good enforcement of road traffic rules. The major factor that is common to every country is gradual replacement of national car fleets with safer new vehicles thanks to manufacturers upping their games in response to EuroNCAP and tougher mandatory crash testing post 1997.

Sleeper12

BrianD3 wrote: »

The reduction in road deaths is mostly due to EuroNCAP and improvements in safety engineering (both active and passive) of new cars. The introduction of the NCT will have been a much less significant factor.

If anyone wants to debate the above - road deaths have dropped dramatically in every European country since the late 90s even in those which, unlike Ireland, already had a good motorway network, roadworthiness testing of vehicles and good enforcement of road traffic rules. The major factor that is common to every country is gradual replacement of national car fleets with safer new vehicles thanks to manufacturers upping their games in response to EuroNCAP and tougher mandatory crash testing post 1997.

In bold isn't really true. Follow through on your thinking & you will see the NCT has removed death traps from Irish roads. Old cars failing the NCT forced people to upgrade to more modern safer cars