Using the Irish Language when dealing with Gardai and public bodies etc.

FutureTeashock

Can I please confirm that you can't be punished in any way for using Irish when dealing with the Guards or other authorities?



I'm seriously considering dusting off the language to use solely when dealing with public bodies for a myriad of reasons.


Thanks.:o

whippet

That will really work out well for you .. good luck with it .. and be sure to report back as to how it goes for you

FutureTeashock

whippet wrote: »

That will really work out well for you .. good luck with it .. and be sure to report back as to how it goes for you

Using the first language of the state as enshrined in LAW won't work well for me?

Salary Negotiator

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Using the first language of the state as enshrined in LAW won't work well for me?

You’re just going to cause yourself delays until whatever body you’re interacting with find someone who can speak Irish.

Why bother other than to be awkward?

FutureTeashock

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

You’re just going to cause yourself delays until whatever body you’re interacting with find someone who can speak Irish.

Why bother other than to be awkward?

Delays could be useful in certain circumstances. I could always interchange between the two. It's literally in the constitution, the fundamental law of the land.

runawaybishop

Define punished? I personally wouldn't go out of my way to assist someone that was being a tool.


Mod
Anybody is entitled to interact with any state body thru Irish. Calling such a person a "tool" is abusive. Pls do not post again on this thread.

FutureTeashock

runawaybishop wrote: »

Define punished? I personally wouldn't go out of my way to assist someone that was being a tool.

So the constitution is worthless then?

banie01

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Using the first language of the state as enshrined in LAW won't work well for me?

So you already know the answer to your question and have only come here to hone your rhetoric?

is_that_so

FutureTeashock wrote: »

So the constitution is worthless then?

No, but nowhere does it state that any State body has to find someone to instantly deal with your issues.

FutureTeashock

is_that_so wrote: »

No, but nowhere does it state that any State body has to find someone to instantly deal with your issues.

I never said they did, but do I have the right to use it without it going against me LEGALLY.



This forum is called "LEGAL DISCUSSION".:pac:

Always Tired

It's a superbly dumb idea and a great way to get off on the wrong foot with them and encourage them to dig their heels in on whatever the issue is. Not to mention if you lack fluency and need to 'dust it off' you are more likely to miscommunicate.

Surely there must be a better skill to learn in your spare time.

HorrorScope

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Can I please confirm that you can't be punished in any way for using Irish when dealing with the Guards or other authorities?



I'm seriously considering dusting off the language to use solely when dealing with public bodies for a myriad of reasons.


Thanks.:o

It’s a ****in stupid idea for 3 reasons;

1) Unless you are a fluent speaker living in an area that only speaks Irish, you are being a dick and wasting Garda time.
2) You being a dick and wasting Garda time is going to have knock on effects for those stuck behind you.
3) When they find out you are taking the piss you are in 20x as much trouble compared to if you kept your
mouth shut

What do you gain from it if it’s not required and not your mother tongue?

runawaybishop

FutureTeashock wrote: »

So the constitution is worthless then?

What's worthless is your idea. There are 0 legal issues to you insisting on using Irish. However, you will rightly be labelled a troublemaker and your card will be marked. Don't expect people to fall over themselves helping you.

is_that_so

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I never said they did, but do I have the right to use it without it going against me LEGALLY.



This forum is called "LEGAL DISCUSSION".:pac:

I see. I thought we were in AH from the standard of your posting. I also believe your question has been answered more than a few times.

FutureTeashock

HorrorScope wrote: »

It’s a ****in stupid idea for 2 reasons;

1) Unless you are a fluent speaker living in an area that only speaks Irish, you are being a dick and wasting Garda time.
2) You being a dick and wasting Garda time is going to have knock on effects for those stuck behind you.

What do you gain from it if it’s not required and not your mother tongue?

I wouldn't necessarily use it in all situations but, for example, if someone in the Public Sector was being rude to me, I could change to Irish and they would have no choice but to facilitate my request LEGALLY.

HorrorScope

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily use it in all situations but, for example, if someone in the Public Sector was being rude to me, I could change to Irish and they would have no choice but to facilitate my request LEGALLY.

That’s true but they’d also be entitled to tell you to **** off and come back another time when an interpreter is available. You have nothing at all to gain and nothing to win from being a clever smart arse.

Ralphyroo

You can use irish to deal with state bodies but if you don't have good Irish it's your own time you're mostly going to waste

Always Tired

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I never said they did, but do I have the right to use it without it going against me LEGALLY.



This forum is called "LEGAL DISCUSSION".:pac:

My guess is you haven't dealt much with the gardai to see how using technicalities works out with them. Technically they can choose to do a lot of inconvenient stuff for you, too.

FutureTeashock

Always Tired wrote: »

My guess is you haven't dealt much with the gardai to see how using technicalities works out with them. Technically they can choose to do a lot of inconvenient stuff for you, too.

This isn't about pissing of the guardai, I would only use it in very select circumstances.

tayto lover

I always find that not being a prat and complying with requests is the best policy and you never suffer for it. If you’re nice to someone they usually reciprocate.

FutureTeashock

tayto lover wrote: »

I always find that not being a prat and complying with requests is the best policy and you never suffer for it. If you’re nice to someone they usually reciprocate.

I agree, but what if a guard or public servant was the one being a prat? Then I would have the perfect weapon to counter this.

bobbyss

HorrorScope wrote:

That’s true but they’d also be entitled to tell you to **** off and come back another time when an interpreter is available. You have nothing at all to gain and nothing to win from being a clever smart arse.

Telling a member of the public that would probably be the last two words they would utter before being sacked.

FutureTeashock

bobbyss wrote: »

Telling a member of the public that would probably be the last two words they would utter before being sacked.

I could also sue them in theory for violating the constitution?


Win win.:o

donegal_man

Be careful what you wish for OP. Unless your command of Irish is fairly flawless you could end up tying yourself in knots if you happen to encounter a member of AGS who has a better command than you.

Always Tired

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I could also sue them in theory for violating the constitution?


Win win.:o

Living in the real world would be more of a win.

FutureTeashock

donegal_man wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for OP. Unless your command of Irish is fairly flawless you could end up tying yourself in knots if you happen to encounter a member of AGS who has a better command than you.

But then I could simply revert to English? No where in the constitution states interchanging is not allowed.

FutureTeashock

Always Tired wrote: »

Living in the real world would be more of a win.

I'm living in the cast iron legal world backed up by the fundamental law of the land. What is more real than that?

Infernal Racket

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Delays could be useful in certain circumstances. I could always interchange between the two. It's literally in the constitution, the fundamental law of the land.

You can speak Irish to a guard but if you use any English during the interaction then the Guard can proceed fully in English. You'd want to be very sure of yourself

FutureTeashock

Gerry G wrote: »

You can speak Irish to a guard but if you use any English during the interaction then the Guard can proceed fully in English. You'd want to be very sure of yourself

And I can answer in Irish. I have no legal obligation to speak English. Isn't the law wonderful?

riclad

Say you meet a garda or a public servant , you ask to do business in irish,
they will go and get an irish speaker,
meanwhile you wait around.
The gardai are under resourced ,
in theory if you delay a garda ,
it could result in a mugger getting away ,
a person who is driving a car while drunk causing a serious accident .
if you are dealing with public bodies, they might send you forms or documents in irish.or send for an irish speaker.
i presume you are an irish national , you speak and understand english.
So what you are doing is maybe wasting time, and pointless.
Unless your purpose is just to annoy someone .
According to the constitution a mother must have the resources, to bring up children.
Many women nowadays work full time even while they have young children,
the constitution is a legal document,
it will not pay your mortgage or pay for a new car to get to work.
Or pay all your bill,s .
I see your point, an irish citizen has the right to conduct offical business
in irish .
This is a legal forum,
but i think above the rule of law is the rule, do not be rude,
do not be awkward or waste people ,s time for no good reason .
Thats just common sense .
Society is formed by certain unwritten rules, like do not skip a queue in a shop ,
just because something is not written down as a law doe,s not mean
its not important.

Infernal Racket

FutureTeashock wrote: »

And I can answer in Irish. I have no legal obligation to speak English. Isn't the law wonderful?

The Guards will just proceed in English though and then you're just wasting your own time kid. Either you're just having a laugh here or you have a very skewed view on reality. Either way, best of luck with your endeavour, you're gonna need it

FutureTeashock

riclad wrote: »

Say you meet a garda or a public servant , you ask to do business in irish,
they will go and get an irish speaker,
meanwhile you wait around.
The gardai are under resourced ,
in theory if you delay a garda ,
it could result in a mugger getting away ,
a person who is driving a car while drunk causing a serious accident .
if you are dealing with public bodies, they might send you forms or documents in irish.or send for an irish speaker.
i presume you are an irish national , you speak and understand english.
So what you are doing is maybe wasting time, and pointless.
Unless your purpose is just to annoy someone .
According to the constitution a mother must have the resources, to bring up children.
Many women nowadays work full time even while they have young children,
the constitution is a legal document,
it will not pay your mortgage or pay for a new car to get to work.
Or pay all your bill,s .
I see your point, an irish citizen has the right to conduct offical business
in irish .
This is a legal forum,
but i think above the rule of law is the rule, do not be rude,
do not be awkward or waste people ,s time for no good reason .
Thats just common sense .
Society is formed by certain unwritten rules, like do not skip a queue in a shop ,
just because something is not written down as a law doe,s not mean
its not important.

This isn't about wasting people's time, it's about having a mechanism up my sleeve to deal with aggressive guards and public servants.



The best part is it's fully LEGAL!:o

gctest50

Gerry G wrote: »

You can speak Irish to a guard but if you use any English during the interaction then the Guard can proceed fully in English. You'd want to be very sure of yourself

What section is that ?

" An nGarda may continue the rest of the interaction in the Queens English if ......."

italodisco

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily use it in all situations but, for example, if someone in the Public Sector was being rude to me, I could change to Irish and they would have no choice but to facilitate my request LEGALLY.

Legally?

Well ****h3ad , I advise you read the language act.

Legally ....:pac:

FutureTeashock

italodisco wrote: »

Legally?

Well ****h3ad , I advise you read the language act.

Legally ....:pac:

The constitution trumps all acts. Irish is actually above English in the constitution.

HorrorScope

bobbyss wrote: »

Telling a member of the public that would probably be the last two words they would utter before being sacked.

Ahahahaha you clearly haven’t dealt with many gardai if any at all... common courtesy is not a hot topic in templemore apparently.

KaneToad

Nothing wrong with dealing with state bodies in our national language. The OPs motives are irrelevant.

Prompt service is less likely though are there is a paucity of staff that would be happy/confident to discharge their duties through the Irish language.

FutureTeashock

KaneToad wrote: »

Nothing wrong with dealing with state bodies in our national language. The OPs motives are irrelevant.

Prompt service is less likely though are there is a paucity of staff that would be happy/confident to discharge their duties through the Irish language.

Thank you KaneToad, or should I say, Go raibh math agat.

Stop moaning ffs

If you really want to go down that path you’d have better luck pretending to be a deaf mute visiting from a very far away country, say Azerbaijan, who only can communicate through a very rare sign language specific to only three people in your village. Even then, you’re just prolonging the inevitable.

Try go down the Irish only route with a Garda and it will draw out the already long process of how bad it’ll be for you. And making it worse

Cherry on top will be a few months extra for wasting Garda time when you get to court.




Dying to know what you have planned now

Ralphyroo

KaneToad wrote: »

Nothing wrong with dealing with state bodies in our national language. The OPs motives are irrelevant.

Prompt service is less likely though are there is a paucity of staff that would be happy/confident to discharge their duties through the Irish language.

But the OP doesn't seem to have fluent Irish so he probably wont be able to understand staff that do

FutureTeashock

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

If you really want to go down that path you’d have better luck pretending to be a deaf mute visiting from a very far away country, say Azerbaijan, who only can communicate through a very rare sign language specific to only three people in your village. Even then, you’re just prolonging the inevitable.

Try go down the Irish only route with a Garda and it will draw out the already long process of how bad it’ll be for you. And making it worse

Cherry on top will be a few months extra for wasting Garda time when you get to court.



Dying to know what you have planned now

If the Gardai trampled over my constitional rights in the manner above, I surely would be within my rights to sue them accordingly?


This is legal discussion after all.

HorrorScope

FutureTeashock wrote: »

If the Gardai trampled over my constitional rights in the manner above, I surely would be within my rights to sue them accordingly?


This is legal discussion after all.

If you are not fluent you will be discovered very quickly and things will go from bad to worse for you - imaginary lawsuits will be the least of your worries at that point

Stop moaning ffs

FutureTeashock wrote: »

If the Gardai trampled over my constitional rights in the manner above, I surely would be within my rights to sue them accordingly?


This is legal discussion after all.

Think you’re referring to the urban myth that if a Garda arrested you for whatever, and you addressed him as gaeilge, and he couldn’t respond as gaeilge, he couldn’t legally arrest you and had to let you go.

I’m fairly sure that’s just a myth but I have a memory of that being done away with long ago.


Ps. Look up the last time anyone sued the Gardai for anything and won.

We’ll all wait here.

donegal_man

"Have you been drinking tonight sir?"
"An féidir leat é sin a dhéanamh arís i nGaeilge?"
"An bhfuil tú ag ól anocht?"
"Oil? I'm not sure what you mean."
"Have you consumed any alcohol tonight?"
"Cad é alcohol i nGaeilge?"
"I am arresting you on suspicion of public intoxication, breach of the peace, failing to comply with the directions of the Gardai and trolling"
"I WIN!"

FutureTeashock

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Think you’re referring to the urban myth that if a Garda arrested you for whatever, and you addressed him as gaeilge, and he couldn’t respond as gaeilge, he couldn’t legally arrest you and had to let you go.

I’m fairly sure that’s just a myth but I have a memory of that being done away with long ago.


Ps. Look up the last time anyone sued the Gardai for anything and won.

We’ll all wait here.

Man awarded €1.1m for wrongful arrest by gardaí over attack on fiancee

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-awarded-1-1m-for-wrongful-arrest-by-garda%C3%AD-over-attack-on-fiancee-1.3970801


KABLAM!

One eyed Jack

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Can I please confirm that you can't be punished in any way for using Irish when dealing with the Guards or other authorities?

I'm seriously considering dusting off the language to use solely when dealing with public bodies for a myriad of reasons.

Thanks.:o

Nobody here can confirm that for you, because the charter of this forum prohibits either seeking or giving legal advice by any poster or posters.

What one can do however, is offer practical advice, and to that end I would suggest you resist the urge to behave like a smartarse for that same myriad of reasons you allude to in your original post.

Stop moaning ffs

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Man awarded €1.1m for wrongful arrest by gardaí over attack on fiancee

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-awarded-1-1m-for-wrongful-arrest-by-garda%C3%AD-over-attack-on-fiancee-1.3970801


KABLAM!

I meant using your premise of using Irish to evade arrest. But you knew that

FutureTeashock

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I meant using your premise of using Irish to evade arrest. But you knew that

Your actual words:

"Ps. Look up the last time anyone sued the Gardai for anything and won.


Mod
Pls stop shouting here

Stop moaning ffs

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Your actual words:

"Ps. Look up the last time anyone sued the Gardai for anything and won.

Ooh. You’re a legal mastermind FT. I hereby bow to your skills and wish you luck on your endeavor. Please forward your cell number, I’d love to hear the full tale after your incarceration /)

Eric Cartman

if youre doing it to intentionally delay or confuse gardai, when they figure it out and find your drugs / your expired insurance disk or whatever other crime youre clearly planning on using this to cover up , theyre going to make things a lot harder on you.

Always Tired

Just saw he posted in another thread, he wants to use it to get out of Jobpath.

I'm on I'm Jobpath mate. I think you should definitely do it, I live in Donegal and the one place they have jobs is in the Gaeltacht area, so that's where they'll be expecting you to apply as an Irish speaker. Slain go foill!