200Km round trip commute

Rory85

Hi all,

I have recently started a new job and have a 100km commute (one way door to door) so will be travelling 200km daily. The route itself is from North Sligo to Castlebar, Co. Mayo. The journey itself is approx 55km of terrible national road where driving speed will likely be 90km/hr at best but more realistically averaging somewhere between 70-80km/hr, 10km of dual carriageway where i would probably be doing 105km/hr - 110km/hr, and 35km of decent national road where 100km/hr might be possible, traffic depending.

My current car is a 1.8 corolla t-sport so I could do with changing up. For curiosity I brought it for my first week and went through €90 worth of petrol, I have since started bringing my aul' fellas van, as he is retired and barely uses it, that is coming in around €70 per week, I reckon going fully electric would cost about €20 per week in electricity so would be saving at least €2000 a year.

From my research I believe a Leaf 40kwh (I am aware of rapidgate) or ioniq 28kwh would be my possible options as I don't want to be dropping 40 grand on a Niro, not totally out of the question but id prefer to spend somewhere around the 25K mark and in 3 or 4 years see what options are available then. My question is would these cars have the range to do the two legs on one charge? Is there any new EV's which don't cost the world being released in the near future which might fit my use case?
I don't have work charging available but I could go into town on my lunch and charge for 15 or 20 minutes if needed, preferably I wouldn't have to do this but in the depths of winter when the range is affected it would be possible.

The route has public chargers in Grange, Sligo, Tobercurry and Castlebar so I'd hope I wouldn't be stuck if one wasn't working I could move on to the next.

All opinions, thoughts, comments, observations and ideas welcome.

unkel

Both those cars would be pushing it in winter. I wouldn't recommend either for your commute. They can be got second hand for your budget, but new they'd cost much closer to €30k too. A car you probably haven't considered is the latest version of the BMW i3, which costs €36k and can do your commute with ease all year around and is a lot more fun to drive than any of the others you are considering. If you can wait until 2021 there will be the cheapest version of the new Volkswagen ID.3 of around €30k that will also easily do your commute. You could consider the new Renault Zoe 52kWh which will also easily do your commute and is available soon. A very spartan car though to do all those miles in. I wouldn't.

An EV doing your 200km per day commute for 220 working days plus say 6k km socially is 50k km per year. An EV doing that will cost you about €550 on the night rate electricity. A frugal diesel doing 50MPG will cost €3,800. You also save quite a lot on maintenance, tax, insurance, tolls. Saving a good €4k per year in running costs and depreciation is likely to be a lot lower on a new EV compared to a new diesel car.

krissovo

You could be pushing the boundaries for the leaf in winter for the real cold days and the Ioniq, plus with that long commute it would be a risk for your sanity to public charge. If you had work charging its a no brainer. Have a look at Tesla Bjorn’s youtube winter range tests and make a call. You could drive well wrapped up and slower but that is a compromise.

A new Zoe at 50kwh battery would have plenty of range.

Mike9832

Renault Zoe, Corsa, 208 should be under €30,000 and will do 300km under those driving conditions with large 50kWh pack

They'll be out early next year

Leaf40/Ioniq 28 won't do that commute in cold rainy winter days

Ioniq 38 will be out soon, easy do 250km+ in all weather, no idea on price, probably €35,000, won't be cheap

adunis

200km is really stretching it for the Ioniq outside of the summer months and definitely for the leaf as well (even driving at leaf speeds )if however you can plug in even to a 3pin socket for a few hours Ioniq will work absolutely no problems.
Current ze4.0 Zoe will do the trip with ease all year round with zero concessions ,you may get an Ioniq from about 21k, secondhand ,26k will easily buy a brand spanking new mid spec Zoe ze4.0 new one looks to be a couple of grand more
Btw there's 5years %0 up available on the Zoe atm

listermint

Wouldn't the Zoe 40 also do that range year round.

adunis

listermint wrote: »

Wouldn't the Zoe 40 also do that range year round.

Absolutely. See above

80sDiesel

Second hand i3rex (33kwh) should do it in summer and in winter you could run the Rex for the shortfall.

Mickeroo

A ten minute top up at the rapid charger in Grange would see you good in winter with the ioniq but you'd be goosed if it was out of order or occupied. If you can charge at work you'd be fine.

I think the L40 would actually be ok even in winter as you won't be on motorway and that can be a slow enough road for a lot of the drive anyway apart from the Castlebar to Charlestown section and the dual carriageway near Sligo. Maybe someone who drives a L40 would know better than me in that regard but it should have better range than the Ioniq when not doing motorway driving I would have thought. You should be able to get a test drive of an L40 handy enough from the Nissan dealer in Kiltimagh.

The new 52kwh Zoe would be the most affordable option on the horizon that would do the commute with ease all year round I would think, but not available yet. The current Zoe 40kwh would likely do it too but no rapid charging (it's faster than most on the slow chargers though with 22kw in fairness).

There's also the Ioniq refresh coming next year which should be viewable in dealerships sometime this month according to Hyundai Ireland twitter. Will be a bit more expensive than the current model though.

krissovo

Forgot about the REX, this would be my first choice but not sure it would reliably hit 200kms daily unless you are careful. At 1000kms per week the Zoe could be a challenge to live with.

listermint

krissovo wrote: »

Forgot about the REX, this would be my first choice but not sure it would reliably hit 200kms daily unless you are careful. At 1000kms per week the Zoe could be a challenge to live with.

I pass folks driving to Dublin on the M11 daily in Zoe's from Wexford.

unkel

adunis wrote: »

Current ze4.0 Zoe will do the trip with ease all year round with zero concessions

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Maybe with the low top speeds the OP is driving.

Renault officially state the range of the Zoe 40 as 300km in summer and 200km in winter.

adunis

Never saw less than 250 driving the wheels of the wife's one......

krissovo

The Zoe 4 in Bjorn’s test did 19 kWh/100 km’s at 90kmph so even the Zoe is pushing it.

Markcheese

Any chance that work would give you access to an outdoor 3 pinplug? A few hours hooked up to a granny cable would probably get you plenty of range to get home comfortably....

unkel

Markcheese wrote: »

Any chance that work would give you access to an outdoor 3 pinplug? A few hours hooked up to a granny cable would probably get you plenty of range to get home comfortably....

+1

And you'd only need to do that in winter on a bad day in Leaf / Ioniq

Or even ask them to install an EVSE. They can write off the cost of that against tax in one year. A professionally installed Zappi on a pedestal on one of the company's parking spaces with a pin code for charging should be under 2 grand.

slave1

Sticking with what you have seems a decent choice until better priced longer range EV make their way to the market

listermint

slave1 wrote: »

Sticking with what you have seems a decent choice until better priced longer range EV make their way to the market

4500 is quite a tasty petrol bill tbf.

BrianD3

I do a similar commute and have done so for many years. I have run up approx 1 million kms on two cars, one petrol, one diesel. Couple of comments:

If you can see yourself getting a job closer to home within a year or two then I would hold off on spending 25 grand on an EV for now.

If you can see yourself doing this commute long term, will this 55 km of bad N road be upgraded in the future, you don't want to end up in a situation where you are travelling at Leafspeed on an upgraded road because better roads = faster speeds = more consumption.

Related to this, choice of route. Perhaps there a less direct and longer but quicker/easier/less affected by bad weather route. If you are driving an EV you won't care abut using some extra "fuel" doing a longer distance as you will be spending so little on it anyway but only if your car has the range for it.

Workplace charging - from my experience of workplaces, I wouldn't want to rely on workplace charging anymore than I'd want to be relying on public charge points. If you are relying on your work to facilitate you getting to and from work that means relying on other people not to hog charge points, not to drive into them with their cars and that there is some system in place to manage and maintain the charging points. As most people are selfish and stupid, you don't want to rely on them for anything.

Rory85

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I hadn't considered the I3 42kwh, that's an interesting shout.
I don't think work charging is a possibility, its a shared building with hundreds working there and as BrianD3 alluded to I don't think I could rely on it.
I might have to give a leaf a test drive and see what range I would be left with, what kind of percentage drop in range is experienced with it in winter?

@BrianD3 Its a job I could definitely see myself in for a number of years to come. I don't see the road being upgraded any time soon, certainly not before I'd be thinking of changing car again.

The new Zoe might be an option. Sounds like the ioniq is definitely out though.

krissovo

Don’t forget the 94ah REX, that is a safe bet for your commute.

rivegauche

Zoe ZE40 will do that trip easily at the speeds described with 16" wheels.
15" wheels would be more comfortable and extend range somewhat.

Bigus

Nipppy i3 would be the way to go for those roads as said above .

Idbatterim

What about the new mg that’s just gone on sale in uk? Gets very good reviews ...

unkel

Idbatterim wrote: »

What about the new mg that’s just gone on sale in uk? Gets very good reviews ...

Not for sale here.

ELM327

Idbatterim wrote: »

What about the new mg that’s just gone on sale in uk? Gets very good reviews ...

You'd have to wait 6 months

Markcheese

ELM327 wrote: »

You'd have to wait 6 months

Its bound to be a few euro dearer by then...

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Not for sale here.

We dont have an MG dealer either, do we?

I would want to see solid reliability stats from the MG EV before I'd gamble on bringing one over. If you have even the smallest issue it would be a PITA to fix.

Idbatterim

KCross wrote: »

We dont have an MG dealer either, do we?

I would want to see solid reliability stats from the MG EV before I'd gamble on bringing one over. If you have even the smallest issue it would be a PITA to fix.

Seems to be one up in Belfast

https://www.seremotors.com/new/mg/mgzsev

ELM327

Idbatterim wrote: »

Seems to be one up in Belfast

https://www.seremotors.com/new/mg/mgzsev

You'd be paying VAT and not getting the grants from the SEAI or the UK (essentially adding 4-5k to the price)
Best to wait and pick up an ex demo in 6 months

Mechatronical

I have a similar journey to the original poster, looking into getting the 40kw leaf also, my journey is 185km (one way from Dublin to Sligo) down the M4 and onto the N4, probably just under a third of it will be 120kmh speed limit and the rest 100kmh speed limit.

From reading this thread so far it looks like id a slim chance to get home with full charge driving to the speed limits. Wondering is that a correct statement? (especially for winter driving).


My current time to get up to west Dublin from Sligo is approx 2 hours (give or take 15 mins depending on traffic).

If its suggested that I do need to stop and say for example I stop at a fast charger (I know it would be a perfect scenario that nobody was occupying the charger and that it wasn't out of order) would it be fair to say that the journey time turns more into 2 hours 45 minutes to get the charge in needed to get home (in a winter driving scenario)?

Basically have to decide in the next week or two and cant seem to get hands on the car for long enough in that timeframe to test the route.

Id be doing the trip twice a week.

Cheers

AhHaor

Agreed you'll be on the limit in cold weather and rain/wind. 10 minutes at a fast charger at 40kW would get you 7kW ~ 25km range.

MrMusician18

You won't save any money in an electric. The kind of driving you're doing means you'll need to get a new electric so that will be roughly €30k minimum. Depreciation cost of €5k per year will negate any saving in fuel cost.

I'd recommend a €10k big second hand diesel. Not only are the upfront costs lower, but the total cost of ownership will be much lower too.

Mechatronical

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You won't save any money in an electric. The kind of driving you're doing means you'll need to get a new electric so that will be roughly €30k minimum. Depreciation cost of €5k per year will negate any saving in fuel cost.

I'd recommend a €10k big second hand diesel. Not only are the upfront costs lower, but the total cost of ownership will be much lower too.

Sorry, forgot to mention it will be a company car so I wont need to worry about deprecation costs.

So if you take depreciation out of it would it be that hard to live with 185km trip x2 per week?

I'm assuming adding an extra 30 mins to my trip would cover the distance in winter.

mayota

Are you working 5 days? If so you must be a steady driver because €90 is not bad for 1000km if the Corolla is 1.8. You should try the 1.4d4d in the Corolla or Auris, you’d get mid 60’s mpg.

unkel

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You won't save any money in an electric. The kind of driving you're doing means you'll need to get a new electric so that will be roughly €30k minimum. Depreciation cost of €5k per year will negate any saving in fuel cost.

Not this nonsense again. My €25k when new EV has depreciated less than €5k in over 2.5 years. Almost all EVs are keeping their value really well. Some second hand ones have been going up in value in recent years (negative depreciation)

MrMusician18

unkel wrote: »

Not this nonsense again. My €25k when new EV has depreciated less than €5k in over 2.5 years. Almost all EVs are keeping their value really well. Some second hand ones have been going up in value in recent years (negative depreciation)

EVs are not immune to depreciation. And next year there will be even more on the market.

In this case it won't matter as it's a company car and indeed going electric makes sense if he can for bik reasons. But for the ordinary commuter, there are cheaper second hand options out there in diesel than new electric.

Lumen

@Mechatronical it's confusing posting your question on top of someone else's thread titled "200km round tip commute", when yours is 185km each way. Better to create a new thread, it doesn't cost anything!

Also, does "doing the trip twice a week" mean two round trips of 370km (540km a week)? Is the round trip done on one day or are there overnight stops? Do you have destination charging in Dublin?

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Not this nonsense again. My €25k when new EV has depreciated less than €5k in over 2.5 years. Almost all EVs are keeping their value really well. Some second hand ones have been going up in value in recent years (negative depreciation)

Yours has low mileage?

How much would it be worth with 150k km on the clock

Anyway for fun

He was talking about a situation where someone was doing 50k km year and buying new vs used

€30,000 wont get a car that can do 200km all year, you've to spend €40,000

After 5 years and 250k km how much will a €40,000 eNiro be worth?

€10,000?

Not many have €40,000 cash either, they'll be paying 5% interest off Kia, less deposit add another €5000 there to cover interest

€45,000 total

€135 a week in depreciation over 5 years

How would it compare to say a low mileage 2014 Octavia for €10,000, most can buy that for cash

We will say general maintenance costs €1,200 a year to get 250k km out of it

At €16,000 now

Depreciation €9000, no one will want a high mileage diesel

€25,000 now

Fuel cost difference between the 2 is €15,000 over 250k km ( 50mpg vs 15kWh)

€40,000 Octavia

€35,000 eNiro

Suprised myself

eNiro cheaper than old diesel

listermint

How did you come up with the 75% depreciation in 5 years.

Can you explain the detail behind that ?

rg_lv

Mechatronical wrote: »

I have a similar journey to the original poster, looking into getting the 40kw leaf also, my journey is 185km (one way from Dublin to Sligo) down the M4 and onto the N4, probably just under a third of it will be 120kmh speed limit and the rest 100kmh speed limit.

From reading this thread so far it looks like id a slim chance to get home with full charge driving to the speed limits. Wondering is that a correct statement? (especially for winter driving).


My current time to get up to west Dublin from Sligo is approx 2 hours (give or take 15 mins depending on traffic).

If its suggested that I do need to stop and say for example I stop at a fast charger (I know it would be a perfect scenario that nobody was occupying the charger and that it wasn't out of order) would it be fair to say that the journey time turns more into 2 hours 45 minutes to get the charge in needed to get home (in a winter driving scenario)?

Basically have to decide in the next week or two and cant seem to get hands on the car for long enough in that timeframe to test the route.

Id be doing the trip twice a week.

Cheers

Just to give you an idea, i have a commute of 130km daily. 110km on motorways 20km on national/B roads. I was fortunate enough to test drive a leaf 40 for a day from a dealer in January.
The day i test drove it it was a clear, sunny day with temperatures between 4-6*C, very little wind (By west of Ireland standards). Got the car with 88% charge. The 1st leg of the journey was good- maintaining speed between 110 - 120km/h predictable drop in charge and range, by the time i got home the SOC was at 50%. (Used 38% for about 65km) When i drove back the charge % dropped very fast and the range from the GOM meant u would not make it back at 120km/h. Long story short i had to drop the speed to 80km/h few minutes in to the return journey. The dealer didn't give me a charging cable or a card which made the range anxiety very real.
Needless to say i didn't buy a leaf. Decided to wait for a Tesla Model 3. Still waiting with no coms from tesla.

Mike9832

listermint wrote: »

How did you come up with the 75% depreciation in 5 years.

Can you explain the detail behind that ?

It will have 250k km on it

75% is probably on the optimistic side

Mechatronical

Lumen wrote: »

@Mechatronical it's confusing posting your question on top of someone else's thread titled "200km round tip commute", when yours is 185km each way. Better to create a new thread, it doesn't cost anything!

Also, does "doing the trip twice a week" mean two round trips of 370km (540km a week)? Is the round trip done on one day or are there overnight stops? Do you have destination charging in Dublin?

Ya, sorry, probably should have started a new thread.

Was just looking to get some idea of the range of the car applicable to Ireland and the original posters post was the most applicable scenario to mine as I know the road hes on about (from same part of the country and also travel to westport quite regularly) so apart from the motorway section of my trip the speed limit would be the same and the roads similair.

Also the OPs post mentioned a range of 200km round trip, for me what im worried about is the 185km trip one way which is close to the OPs journey as both of us are looking to do a similar distance without charging (unless driving 100km , stopping a few hours and driving another 100km is better in that the battery gets a rest in between trips?)

So basically in a week id drive to Dublin, work 3/4 days and drive back home. So 185km up and 185km down. I would have access to 3 pin plug in house in Dublin and there are a few fast chargers within 10-15 minutes around the area I live.

Hope this helps

unkel

To do 185km fully charged, you can get away with Ioniq or Leaf 40. On particularly bad days in winter, just take it handy and drive a bit under the speed limit. Car would cost you a bit over €20k second hand. Or of course fork out nearly €40k for a new Kona / eNiro and drive at or over the speed limit even in brutal weather. Up to you what makes more sense :pac:

Mickeroo

Mechatronical wrote: »

Ya, sorry, probably should have started a new thread.

Was just looking to get some idea of the range of the car applicable to Ireland and the original posters post was the most applicable scenario to mine as I know the road hes on about (from same part of the country and also travel to westport quite regularly) so apart from the motorway section of my trip the speed limit would be the same and the roads similair.

Also the OPs post mentioned a range of 200km round trip, for me what im worried about is the 185km trip one way which is close to the OPs journey as both of us are looking to do a similar distance without charging (unless driving 100km , stopping a few hours and driving another 100km is better in that the battery gets a rest in between trips?)

So basically in a week id drive to Dublin, work 3/4 days and drive back home. So 185km up and 185km down. I would have access to 3 pin plug in house in Dublin and there are a few fast chargers within 10-15 minutes around the area I live.

Hope this helps

I wouldn't trust the Ioniq 28kwh to do 185km without having to stop for a charge in winter no matter how easy you take it. It wouldn't do it in summer either if there's motorway involved (which there is a fair bit of between Dublin and Mayo). If you go via Athlone and use the Ionity chargers this shouldn't really be a problem though.

I wouldn't advise an EV for that driving pattern unless you are willing to rely on the public charging infrastructure or can afford one of the 300km+ ranged models.

I'm from the same part of the country as yourself and OP and drive an Ioniq for what it's worth. Though I hardly ever have to drive beyond the range of the car.

celtic_oz

https://www.cargiant.co.uk/car/bmw/i3/NU16LHL

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

To do 185km fully charged, you can get away with Ioniq or Leaf 40. On particularly bad days in winter, just take it handy and drive a bit under the speed limit. Car would cost you a bit over €20k second hand. Or of course fork out nearly €40k for a new Kona / eNiro and drive at or over the speed limit even in brutal weather. Up to you what makes more sense :pac:

No you cannot.
I bought Ioniq based on advice here saying real world 200km was possible all year.
And it wasnt.
It ran out after 165km on the motorway.


You need a kona/soul/niro/tesla at that amount.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

It ran out after 165km on the motorway.

Yeah probably some of that at 120km/h with cruise control and heating on.

I'd be very confident to do 185km in Ioniq on the coldest day of winter. Driving gently and below the speed limit. No cruise, no heating except seat heating. Doing that a handful of times a year would be a very small sacrifice to keep half of that €40k in my pocket!

I'd also be confident to drive more than the 280km NEDC range in Ioniq on a good day in summer. Maybe I should just do that next summer with proof provided here so some of d'unbelievers would shut up

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

NI bought Ioniq based on advice here saying real world 200km was possible all year. And it wasnt. It ran out after 165km on the motorway.

You need a kona/soul/niro/tesla at that amount.

You have to take into account what kind of driver you are.

When I get in a new (to me) car, one of the first things I do is fire up a GPS app (or Google Maps) and find out what the indicated speed is for 120kph GPS. And then when I'm on the motorway I set the cruise control to that.

But many people cruise at GPS limit +10%, and when I was over in the UK a few weeks ago I was passed on the motorway by Audis doing ~200kph.

And at the other end of the scale there are those who won't break the speed limit according to their (overreading) speedo, and then there are the leafspeeders.

So range recommendations are always a bit risky, particularly given that hypermilers are overrepresented in the EV community.

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

Yeah probably some of that at 120km/h with cruise control and heating on.

I'd be very confident to do 185km in Ioniq on the coldest day of winter. Driving gently and below the speed limit. No cruise, no heating except seat heating. Doing that a handful of times a year would be a very small sacrifice to keep half of that €40k in my pocket!

I'd also be confident to drive more than the 280km NEDC range in Ioniq on a good day in summer. Maybe I should just do that next summer with proof provided here so some of d'unbelievers would shut up

That's not very helpful or relevant to someone looking to buy the car and drive it normally though to be fair. 185km without stopping isn't possible in winter because most people will want to charge the car before turtle mode kicks in. I'm highly dubious about 280km if you drive anywhere near the speed limit but I'd be interested in how you get on.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Yeah probably some of that at 120km/h with cruise control and heating on.

I'd be very confident to do 185km in Ioniq on the coldest day of winter. Driving gently and below the speed limit. No cruise, no heating except seat heating. Doing that a handful of times a year would be a very small sacrifice to keep half of that €40k in my pocket!

I'd also be confident to drive more than the 280km NEDC range in Ioniq on a good day in summer. Maybe I should just do that next summer with proof provided here so some of d'unbelievers would shut up

Not interested in compromising!
A new car should be able to do the real world range in winter that is advertised. 220km in summer (which I have also done) is no good if it can't do 170km in winter.