US diplomat's wife flees home claiming diplomatic immunity after fatal collision

my3cents

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Says who?

https://news.sky.com/story/diplomats-wife-devastated-and-wants-to-meet-harry-dunns-parents-11833917 but the story is still a little confusing?

El_Duderino 09

So she had immunity when she hit the guy. And diplomatic immunity ends when you return home. So now that she's home she no longer has immunity - and she doesn't need it because she's home.

It doesn't change anything. Its all over bar the hundreds of articles, tear filled interviews with the family and whatever can be milked from the family and their tragedy. I read the family is on their way to New York and Washington. Complete waste of time. They should be allowed to grieve as normal people and instead they're being encouraged to swan around the world, playing out their grief for our amusement.

I imagine the UK Gov is in absolutely no position to make demands of the US Gov because it's so weak at the moment. It would look good to kick up a bit of a fuss and drop it quietly in a short while. It's pretty clear that nothing is likely to happen.

It ain't right.

El_Duderino 09

The news is full of it this morning. That poor family is going to be e courage to spend the next few years trying to get yer wan back to the UK to face the charge.

What nobody is going to tell them is that they need t forget it and just go through the grieving process with the support of family and friends. Try to keep it as normal as possible and get on with the reality of the situation. The last thing they need is a massive distraction from the fact their son is gone.

They'll be our reality tv entertainment for the next few years as they fight for "justice" while we shovel popcorn into our mouths.

Torsevt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The news is full of it this morning. That poor family is going to be e courage to spend the next few years trying to get yer wan back to the UK to face the charge.

What nobody is going to tell them is that they need t forget it and just go through the grieving process with the support of family and friends. Try to keep it as normal as possible and get on with the reality of the situation. The last thing they need is a massive distraction from the fact their son is gone.

They'll be our reality tv entertainment for the next few years as they fight for "justice" while we shovel popcorn into our mouths.

All very subjective

We don't know who'll encourage who or who'll eat popcorn

They may get some closure by fighting

Still waters

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The news is full of it this morning. That poor family is going to be e courage to spend the next few years trying to get yer wan back to the UK to face the charge.

What nobody is going to tell them is that they need t forget it and just go through the grieving process with the support of family and friends. Try to keep it as normal as possible and get on with the reality of the situation. The last thing they need is a massive distraction from the fact their son is gone.

They'll be our reality tv entertainment for the next few years as they fight for "justice" while we shovel popcorn into our mouths.

Fcuk that, keep harassing the bitch, never let her forget what she's done, keep it in the news as long as they can

Invisibleman

I’d seek vengeance no matter the consequences , an eye for an eye

El_Duderino 09

Torsevt wrote: »

All very subjective

We don't know who'll encourage who or who'll eat popcorn

They may get some closure by fighting

Closure my backside. They'll be a small industry to a legal team and the media covering them. They'll get all the encouragement they need from them.

The legal system really, really isn't designed to make people happy at the end of the process.

The alternative to putting on the reality show is to go home and face the fact that their son has died. And most people would choose to do anything except face the fact that their son is dead - if they have an alternative like these people have.

It would take a real friend to tell them to drop it, go home and grieve.

Torsevt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Closure my backside. They'll be a small industry to a legal team and the media covering them. They'll get all the encouragement they need from them.

The legal system really, really isn't designed to make people happy at the end of the process.

The alternative to putting on the reality show is to go home and face the fact that their son has died. And most people would choose to do anything except face the fact that their son is dead - if they have an alternative like these people have.

It would take a real friend to tell them to drop it, go home and grieve.

We don't know

A campaign may affect the next victims family and they get some closure that way

El_Duderino 09

Torsevt wrote: »

We don't know

A campaign may affect the next victims family and they get some closure that way

Closure would be to go home, face reality and grieve like normal, in peace and quiet, with support from family and friends.

The media and court drama is really unlikely to make anything better. No therapist, expert or right thinking person would suggest grieving in the form of a public reality TV, courtroom drama show.

They might get "closure" eventually in 10 or 20 years Time. They might get closure when they give up. But there's no way they will get "closure" in a better way than going home and facing the reality and trying to get back to real life over the next years.

holyhead

Diplomat's wife or not the honourable thing to do would have been for her to surrender herself to the British Police and Justice System. It was an accident and sadly accidents happen. His family deserve justice and that's the one consolation she could have given them. I don't know whether she was advised to return to the US or chose to do so herself. Whether she sees one night in jail over this or not she has a life sentence of guilt for taking a life albeit not intentionally. No doubt after the initial shock the enormity of what happened has most certainly hit her by now.
While I can understand his family going to the US I'm not sure what good it will do them. She seems unlikely to return to Britain to face trial.

El_Duderino 09

holyhead wrote: »

Diplomat's wife or not the honourable thing to do would have been for her to surrender herself to the British Police and Justice System. It was an accident and sadly accidents happen. His family deserve justice and that's the one consolation she could have given them. I don't know whether she was advised to return to the US or chose to do so herself. Whether she sees one night in jail over this or not she has a life sentence of guilt for taking a life albeit not intentionally. No doubt after the initial shock the enormity of what happened has most certainly hit her by now.
While I can understand his family going to the US I'm not sure what good it will do them. She seems unlikely to return to Britain to face trial.

She would be under pressure from the US government to return home and say nothing. They don't want the precedent of people with diplomatic Immunity standing trial.

There's no way they would allow it. They need people with DI to be above the law. If people start asking when they're above the law and when they should stand trial, then DI is knackered.

You're right that the honourable thing would be to stand trial but that's a million miles away from where we are with this case.

El_Duderino 09

The news is full of the Dunn family going to America, visiting the White House and meeting Trump to tell them the woman isn't going back to the UK. Even titillating details like "Trump shocked us by telling us she's in the next room".

The reality TV show is good but they've got their answer and they should be encouraged to stop and go home.

Plumbthedepths

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The news is full of the Dunn family going to America, visiting the White House and meeting Trump to tell them the woman isn't going back to the UK. Even titillating details like "Trump shocked us by telling us she's in the next room".

The reality TV show is good but they've got their answer and they should be encouraged to stop and go home.

As Miss Dunn asked of Trump 'would you stop if it were your son?' I know I wouldn't.

El_Duderino 09

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

As Miss Dunn asked of Trump 'would you stop if it were your son?' I know I wouldn't.

Yeah and they’ll get so much encouragement to carry on from the media and team of lawyers. But they really should stop.

What they want is their son back and that’s never going to happen. They can spend the rest of their lives on this quest. But they won’t get what they want (their son back) nor will they get yer wan back to the uk.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Closure would be to go home, face reality and grieve like normal, in peace and quiet, with support from family and friends.

The media and court drama is really unlikely to make anything better. No therapist, expert or right thinking person would suggest grieving in the form of a public reality TV, courtroom drama show.

They might get "closure" eventually in 10 or 20 years Time. They might get closure when they give up. But there's no way they will get "closure" in a better way than going home and facing the reality and trying to get back to real life over the next years.

Closure would be helped by their sons killer accepting responsibility for her actions, not hiding behind Trumps wig.

Plumbthedepths

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah and they’ll get so much encouragement to carry on from the media and team of lawyers. But they really should stop.

What they want is their son back and that’s never going to happen. They can spend the rest of their lives on this quest. But they won’t get what they want (their son back) nor will they get yer wan back to the uk.

Maybe it's the way you write but your comments come across as sneering contempt, tbh.
Absolutely nothing wrong with seeking justice. They are still grieving. Your views are well known by now maybe it's time that you also moved on.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Closure would be helped by their sons killer accepting responsibility for her actions, not hiding behind Trumps wig.

Is that closure? Hasn't she already apologised through her solicitor? She accepts responsibility. Abd I suspect it didn't help at all.

I just don't buy into the idea that their "closure" happens to be the most entertaining and marketable solution. Strange coincidence if that were the case. Much more likely is the people who are making lots of money pushing them to keep looking for "closure" don't give a sh1t about them and their "closure". But the closure industry is strong.

El_Duderino 09

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Maybe it's the way you write but your comments come across as sneering contempt, tbh.
Absolutely nothing wrong with seeking justice. They are still grieving. Your views are well known by now maybe it's time that you also moved on.

Not sneering at all. I think this poor family is having their tragedy multiplied by being dragged out to get "closure".

Two facts that are worth keeping in mind:
1. The woman isn't going back to the UK.
2. "Closure" comes from grieving in the normal way. Accepting the new reality and grieving, supported by family and friends who care.

No bereavement expert would recommend this reality TV show as a way to get "closure". The parts we hear about aren't about them, it's for our amusement. That's wrong.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is that closure? Hasn't she already apologised through her solicitor? She accepts responsibility. Abd I suspect it didn't help at all.

I just don't buy into the idea that their "closure" happens to be the most entertaining and marketable solution. Strange coincidence if that were the case. Much more likely is the people who are making lots of money pushing them to keep looking for "closure" don't give a sh1t about them and their "closure". But the closure industry is strong.

If she accepted responsibility, she wouldn’t have run away.

I sincerely hope that you never have to go through what this family are suffering.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If she accepted responsibility, she wouldn’t have run away.
I sincerely hope that you never have to go through what this family are suffering.

This is what I'm getting at. There is no actual level of responsibility she could take that would make things better. She apologised and that's no good.

I sincerely hope that I never have to go through what this family are suffering.
I sincerely hope that you never have to go through what this family are suffering either. I'd assume it's a given. Not sure why you'd bring it up.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is what I'm getting at. There is no actual level of responsibility she could take that would make things better. She apologised and that's no good.

I sincerely hope that I never have to go through what this family are suffering.
I sincerely hope that you never have to go through what this family are suffering either. I'd assume it's a given. Not sure why you'd bring it up.

I bring it up because you don't seem to understand their anger. Their grief is being compounded by the killer not accepting responsibility and returning to face judgement.

blueshade

I think this case highlights the need for Diplomatic Immunity laws to be modernised globally. It was never intended to be about giving the family members of Diplomats a get out of jail free card when they commit a crime in a foreign country. Nobody should be above the law. Does anyone really believe that the same thing couldn't happen here?

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I bring it up because you don't seem to understand their anger. Their grief is being compounded by the killer not accepting responsibility and returning to face judgement.

I get their grief and anger- in as much as anyone who hasn’t experienced their situation can)I think the bit that you’re not getting is that their grief is saturated by the death of their son. The circumstances are almost irrelevant because the huge bulk of grief is the the death of the boy. The diplomat is a tiny bit on top of it. Right now they’re being encouraged to spend their time focusing on the tiny bit at the top and ignore the normal grief process for the actual loss of their son.

El_Duderino 09

blueshade wrote: »

I think this case highlights the need for Diplomatic Immunity laws to be modernised globally. It was never intended to be about giving the family members of Diplomats a get out of jail free card when they commit a crime in a foreign country. Nobody should be above the law. Does anyone really believe that the same thing couldn't happen here?

No one has suggested the same thing couldn’t happen here. It almost certainly could happen here. And Ireland is a much smaller country than the UK so there’s even less Ireland could do about it.

I dread to think of the things that have been swept I’m under the carpet all around the world because of diplomatic immunity.

Penn

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I get their grief and anger- in as much as anyone who hasn’t experienced their situation can)I think the bit that you’re not getting is that their grief is saturated by the death of their son. The circumstances are almost irrelevant because the huge bulk of grief is the the death of the boy. The diplomat is a tiny bit on top of it. Right now they’re being encouraged to spend their time focusing on the tiny bit at the top and ignore the normal grief process for the actual loss of their son.

That is all extremely presumptuous, and it's very unfair to try and claim they're ignoring the normal grief process for the loss of their son.

It's equally plausible that they want this woman to face some kind of justice for her actions which took their son from them. Instead she used a legal loophole (which some say is questionable whether she actually had diplomatic immunity or not) to avoid having to answer for what she did. That's an injustice being brought upon the parents on top of losing their son. They can't do anything about their son, but they can fight for their son. Even if she was brought up in court and set free or found guilty but not serve any time, at least that's some form of closure. She was made to answer for her crimes.

In this case, she hasn't and never will. That's unfair, and the parents have every right to fight for justice for their son.

El_Duderino 09

Penn wrote: »

That is all extremely presumptuous, and it's very unfair to try and claim they're ignoring the normal grief process for the loss of their son.

It's equally plausible that they want this woman to face some kind of justice for her actions which took their son from them. Instead she used a legal loophole (which some say is questionable whether she actually had diplomatic immunity or not) to avoid having to answer for what she did. That's an injustice being brought upon the parents on top of losing their son. They can't do anything about their son, but they can fight for their son. Even if she was brought up in court and set free or found guilty but not serve any time, at least that's some form of closure. She was made to answer for her crimes.

In this case, she hasn't and never will. That's unfair, and the parents have every right to fight for justice for their son.

The court system really really isn’t designed to make people happy at the end. The only thing that will make things better is time to grieve and adjust to the loss. So if the court case takes 10 years to complete they will likely feel much better by the end. But that’s just the passage of time.

And FYI nobody is doubting they she had diplomatic immunity at the time of the incident. Her immunity ended when she returned to the US so she doesn’t have diplomatic immunity now.

James Brown

Trump tried to pull a sly one. We are conditioned to seek justice. This helps reach closure. The woman fleeing the U.K. did not help. Trump looking to be some kind of Dr. Phil was low grade P.R.

jimmycrackcorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Trump tried to pull a sly one. We are conditioned to seek justice. This helps reach closure. The woman fleeing the U.K. did not help. Trump looking to be some kind of Dr. Phil was low grade P.R.

I don't if it was good own idea. He's too narcissistic to think of things like that. But it was some aides idea and just so obnoxiously American.

dastardly00

Update on this story...

UK prosecutors charge US diplomat’s wife over fatal car crash

British prosecutors have charged the wife of a US diplomat with causing death by dangerous driving after a car crash in England in August in which a teenager died.

So the next step is for the UK to request extradition of Anne Sacoolas from the US?

El_Duderino 09

I presume its a matter of going through the motions. I can't see any indication of the UK pushing for her extradition so far and I can't see the US volunteering to hand her over either.

But, this is the path the family has chosen to go down - perpetual legal battles, talk shows, either run out of money or sell whatever they have to keep the fight going, probably set up a charity to fund the fight (I'm not suggesting they're doing any this for money or personal fame) people telling them they're dead right but nobody having the heart to tell them that it's almost certainly never going to have the result they want.

On the other hand, they're a couple of months after their son's death so this would be the point at which people have grieved and things would be getting back to normality.

It's very sad.