Wrightbus, £15m and the Evangelical Super Church

Muahahaha

Anyone been following this story? Its really bizarre stuff going on up in Ballymena.

You have the CEO of Wrightbus, Jeff Wright, son of the founder William Wright who is also the pastor of the adjacent Evangelical Green Pastures Church. Green Pastures can only be described as a super church along the lines of what you would see in the US. Take a look at the website, the sermons are live streamed across Youtube and the alter of the church is more akin to a stage at a rock concert complete with giant screens and advanced audio. Congregations there are typically over 1,000 people for a single sermon by the Pastor Jeff.
https://www.gpastures.co.uk/


Wrightbus are/were a very successful bus building company who supply many customers, including Transport for London and Dublin Bus. Last week they went into administration with the loss of 1,200 jobs which is going to have a pretty devastating effect on the town of Ballymena. But now it is coming out that Pastor Jeff was funneling off about a third of WrightBus profits towards the Green Pastures church which has resulted or at least sped up the companies demise. in 2017 he donated £4.2m of Wrightbus profits into the church which resulted in a £1.7m annual financial loss for the company. In total is has funneled £15m of company profits to the church at a time when Brexit has meant a weakening of sterling when they need to buy parts from other European couintries in euro. He did all this to fund his pet project- an expansion of Green Pastures to cover 97 acres and numerous more buildings, football pitches and a college.

The deluded Jeff Wright is a heavy believer in the power of God to finance the Church:-

In two sermons in 2016 Wright, 54, the son of Wrightbus co-founder William Wright, told an 850 strong congregation that Green Pastures needed completed because "the world is ending".
He urged them to help find 400 new members for the emerging evangelical super-church at Ballee saying "Jesus is coming" and no seats should be empty.

Wright said: "I don't think you know the size of the church that you're about to build. Honestly. You only think you know. But when you see it, see when the steel goes up? "You need to understand. And here's the thing — God will finance all of this, incredibly. Millions, millions.

"It's just not possible. Without any businesses or without any Asda's or anything like that, finance it all – why? Because it's his will."

So now it turns out that God wasnt funding it at all but instead Wrightbus was and now 1,200 jobs have been lost with a further 1,700 under threat in the companies engineering supply chain.

To top everything off Pastor Jeff Wright is supporter of Brexit which is the very thing that has accelerated his companies decline- orders for buses to be supplied to the EU market dried up because of the uncertainty of supply and tariffs that would be put on importing their buses.

Now Pastor Jeffs employees are turning against him, protest placards yesterday included "1 Ego=1200 Jobs" and "God is not money". On top of this the Wright Family and specifically Pastor Jeff have been receiving death threats as well as large scale anger within the community. And then you've got the links to Ian Paisley Junior and the DUP, key proponents of Brexit who are now wondering how to sell this one to the 1,200 people, many who would be DUP voters who have been immediately been laid off.

Its a clusterfcuk of epic proportions that really lays bare the dangers of mixing religion, business and politics.

SafeSurfer

Ballymena needs more churches

tipptom

Ian Paisley jnr said "nothing to see here" so I think that should settle it then!

Was there also something also about some Wrightbus employees "church donations" being taken out of their weekly wages which I thought was very strange.

enricoh

God wanted it this way! Meh, its only ballymena, not the most affable of folk up there. As a result sympathy is in short supply!

banie01

Brexit supporting Gammon who's financial support for a sky fairy and a vanity project "church" contributes to the insolvency of Ballymena's last major employer.
Couple that with a fantastical belief in Brexit unicorns, and the orders for your product drying up as it becomes more and more likely that the product you rely on export markets to buy, may be left on the shelf as other countries look to likely costs of tariff and import duties on top of your current pricing...


Tis shocking altogether that it could have gone wrong!
I wonder if Wright Bus' troubles are due to
1. Not having enough faith in God?
2. God deciding to test the faith of all those associated with Wright Bus alá Job?
3. Its always darkest before the dawn... And their Sky Fairy is changing the bulb?
4. People not being Brexity enough?
5. Inherent stupidity and a lack of Macro-Economic competence?
or
6. The Taigs! Even when it was the Bears, I mean everything else! It was always somehow the catholics! I can't wait to find out how Brexit and the collapse of N.I's exporting businesses are all part of a Popish plot!

T'is a Wright mess altogether

Muahahaha

banie01 wrote: »

6. The Taigs! Even when it was the Bears, I mean everything else! It was always somehow the catholics! I can't wait to find out how Brexit and the collapse of N.I's exporting businesses are all part of a Popish plot!

Open to correction but I thought I read somewhere a few weeks back that 89% of Wright Bus employees are Protestant and that the Pastor Jeff would order them to show up to his sermons on Sundays. They cant blame the Taigs for this one

The whole thing is bizarre, the ego of one man with a god delusion has brought down a successful business and an entire community. Its the stuff of cults with politics and Brexit chucked in for additional measure.

ohnonotgmail

Muahahaha wrote: »

Open to correction but I thought I read somewhere a few weeks back that 89% of Wright Bus employees are Protestant and that the Pastor Jeff would order them to show up to his sermons on Sundays. They cant blame the Taigs for this one

The whole thing is bizarre, the ego of one man with a god delusion has brought down a successful business and an entire community. Its the stuff of cults with politics and Brexit chucked in for additional measure.

Well it cant be the fault of Wright himself so it must be the taigs.

ArrBee

banie01 wrote: »

I wonder if Wright Bus' troubles are due to
4. People not being Brexity enough?

Especially like that one.

Junior takes over the family business built up over time by senior and promptly runs it smack bang into the ground.

A story as old as the Bible.

godtabh

IF they are profits the donations cant be losses.

aerburdz

27% of Ballymena is Catholic and 66% is Protestant.

Interestingly, 12% identify as Irish and 66% as British.

The town is not only Prod Central but Brit Central as well:(.

Muahahaha

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well it cant be the fault of Wright himself so it must be the taigs.

You're wright, it must have been the Taigs wot done it :pac:

DUP and Paisley have egg all over their face on this one. They were told Brexit would create economic chaos and now here we are. Its really hard to believe how people whose very job depends on being in the EU market would then go and vote to leave the EU, it takes a special kind of stupidity to do that. Similar situation with Nissan in Sunderland where 9,000 jobs are under threat while the community overwhelmingly voted for Brexit.

The problem for Wrightbus now is finding a buyer to save the company and at least some of the jobs. Problem is anyone investing now is taking a bet on the outcome of Brexit and the results of a free trade agreement with the EU which is at least two years away. They are courting a Chinese firm but with all the uncertainty due to Brexit it would be a huge punt to take them over right now.

jelutong

Deleted User wrote: »

T'is a Wright mess altogether

Wright Ted.

20Wheel

God, wrightbus....whatever. same thing.

Harry Palmr

This is shocking but not surprising Evangelicals are famously mad, and rich on the back of gullible schmucks. Is the any evidence of money being syphoned off or was it accounted for in the books? If the latter then the accountants are the ones who needs to be sued.

20Wheel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35K6vQRt67g

Fann Linn

Wright backed the wrong god.
Sh1t happens.

punisher5112

It's like any cult they're bizarre and so are the people that follow like sheep.

Scientology is another extremely strange and bizarre organisation but they all fall under charity so are actually rolling in it tax free.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Wow, didn’t know all that backstory, OP! :eek: The headlines don’t really indicate much beyond the norm for company closures. I really feel for all the employees.

aerburdz

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Wow, didn’t know all that backstory, OP! :eek: The headlines don’t really indicate much beyond the norm for company closures. I really feel for all the employees.

You can be sure they don't feel for you.

BarryD2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its a clusterfcuk of epic proportions that really lays bare the dangers of mixing religion, business and politics.

Be a lot of nervous politicians up there come the looming election. I'd think they'll be trying to run a mile from Wright Bus.

ohnonotgmail

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This is shocking but not surprising Evangelicals are famously mad, and rich on the back of gullible schmucks. Is the any evidence of money being syphoned off or was it accounted for in the books? If the latter then the accountants are the ones who needs to be sued.

No, it was all accounted for. I haven't seen anything to suggest they have done anything illegal. They are free to disperse company profits as they see fit

BarryD2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No, it was all accounted for. I haven't seen anything to suggest they have done anything illegal. They are free to disperse company profits as they see fit

Maybe, but if they had prudently retained these profits as a 'rainy day' fund, then the business might well still be trading??

punisher5112

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No, it was all accounted for. I haven't seen anything to suggest they have done anything illegal. They are free to disperse company profits as they see fit

They were in trouble and he gave off £4.5 mill...

ohnonotgmail

punisher5112 wrote: »

They were in trouble and he gave off £4.5 mill...

he gave that money in 2017. were they in trouble then?

punisher5112

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

he gave that money in 2017. were they in trouble then?

They weren't in great shape.

Ferm001

Appears there was an offer to rescue the business, but Jeff Wright wanted £1M a year for use of the factory as it's owned by another of his companies.
Interested party decided against putting in offer.

humberklog

"The path of the WrightBus man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men..."

So that'd be the catholics and the EU.

banie01

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No, it was all accounted for. I haven't seen anything to suggest they have done anything illegal. They are free to disperse company profits as they see fit

Whilst I'd agree 100% that the funds were all properly accounted for.
Where a disbursement of company funds results in a profit becoming a £1.2 million pound loss I'd seriously question the actual ethics and morality of the directors who signed off on said disbursement.

Where a company that has a viable order book, cannot continue trading as its "charitable donations" have put its accounts deep in the red, the actions of those who approved the donations even tho legal need to be called out for the recklessness they are.

That the action was legal, does not make it moral.
Which is quite ironic given where the money went.

ohnonotgmail

banie01 wrote: »

Whilst I'd agree 100% that the funds were all properly accounted for.
Where a disbursement of company funds results in a profit becoming a £1.2 million pound loss I'd seriously question the actual ethics and morality of the directors who signed off on said disbursement.

Where a company that has a viable order book, cannot continue trading as its "charitable donations" have put its accounts deep in the red, the actions of those who approved the donations even tho legal need to be called out for the recklessness they are.

That the action was legal, does not make it moral.
Which is quite ironic given where the money went.

I cannot disagree with any of that.

ArrBee

I can't understand why it would be legal to do what was done.

Just because the "charity" is called a "church", doesn't make it either.

ohnonotgmail

ArrBee wrote: »

I can't understand why it would be legal to do what was done.

Just because the "charity" is called a "church", doesn't make it either.

you cant understand why it would be legal for the owner of a company to withdraw from it?

theoneeyedman

banie01 wrote: »

Whilst I'd agree 100% that the funds were all properly accounted for.
Where a disbursement of company funds results in a profit becoming a £1.2 million pound loss I'd seriously question the actual ethics and morality of the directors who signed off on said disbursement.

Where a company that has a viable order book, cannot continue trading as its "charitable donations" have put its accounts deep in the red, the actions of those who approved the donations even tho legal need to be called out for the recklessness they are.

That the action was legal, does not make it moral.
Which is quite ironic given where the money went.

This makes sense to any normal person.

A question, was it the company that donated to the church, or Mr Wright in a personal capacity? Was it money 'due' to him as a shareholder of the bus company, which he donated to the church? For example, some sort of a dividend as a shareholder?

I ask because in some of the news reports over the weekend, that was kinda the way it was presented, Mr Wright referred to as a shareholder who donated to the church. Sounded like a legalese statement, and possibly fed to the reporter by the man himself or his reps, but a suptle difference nonetheless.
All bullsh1t of course, it's reprehensible behaviour by any measure, legal or not, and as for Morals.......

I always heard, 'The nearer to Church, the further from God'.

Gunmonkey

How could he receive that amount as a dividend if the company made a loss in that year? No dividend would be issued.

Now if it was £4.2m from his own pocket as a donation....you thin maybe he could have invested a part of that into Wrightbus to keep the company afloat for another year or so, potentially riding out Brexit and potentially securing new tenders once the supply chains after UK leaves are established. For him to allow the company he is CEO of and has his name on to go under when he has more than enough to offer a short term loan, or whatever the term would be, and instead pump it into such an inane vanity project is insanity.

Damien360

banie01 wrote: »

Whilst I'd agree 100% that the funds were all properly accounted for.
Where a disbursement of company funds results in a profit becoming a £1.2 million pound loss I'd seriously question the actual ethics and morality of the directors who signed off on said disbursement.

Where a company that has a viable order book, cannot continue trading as its "charitable donations" have put its accounts deep in the red, the actions of those who approved the donations even tho legal need to be called out for the recklessness they are.

That the action was legal, does not make it moral.
Which is quite ironic given where the money went.

I don’t know company tax law but can you or someone else answer this. As the company was loss making, it has no corporation tax due as there is no profit. Can a charitable donation be made before the tax is due to avoid tax ? Is this just tax avoidance. Is the church subject to different tax due ?

punisher5112

Damien360 wrote: »

I don’t know company tax law but can you or someone else answer this. As the company was loss making, it has no corporation tax due as there is no profit. Can a charitable donation be made before the tax is due to avoid tax ? Is this just tax avoidance. Is the church subject to different tax due ?

Church is a charity so it would make total sense if he knew things were going down to swindle money elsewhere.

The Satanist

HaHa dot gif

PVNevin

From The Times, Newton Emerson:
"Ten years ago my wife, who is Catholic, worked for Wrightbus, the Ballymena coachbuilder that has just entered administration with the loss of 1,200 jobs. She did not experience or witness any sectarian prejudice and has been horrified by the barely disguised gloating at the company’s demise, with some clearly regarding it as an Orange bastion of DUP-voting Brexit supporters who deserve their fate.
Sinn Fein, which has expressed sympathy for staff, tried to sabotage their jobs in 2006 by telling American customers that Wrightbus refused to employ Catholics. In fact, Wrightbus had a mixed workforce in proportion to Ballymena’s population and no finding of religious discrimination was upheld against it."

I haven't read the rest of Emeron's article because it requires a subscription.

I oppose the easy knowingness of a social type that is happy to condemn all protestant workers as bigots because a proportion of them vote DUP. Yet those who condemn DUP voters are blind to their own prejudices.
Sinn Fein are the dance partner of the DUP in the sectarian two-step organised to split the working class.
The same Sinn Fein that appeals to the "Nationalist", ie Catholic, people; and who endlessly cheer on the "demographic change" that will
bring Sinn Fein to power.
The same SInn Fein that colluded with the DUP in crashing Stormont so that both they and the DUP could move sideways from their responsibility for savage cuts in state spending.

Working people are served neither by the DUP or Sinn Fein - two parties profoundly hostile to socialism.

humberklog

^ above post.. .

I usually enjoy Newton's take on things but...
Isn't NI about 55/45 in favour of protestants? And the workforce was about 80% protestant?

And while Ballymena might be about 80%ish in protestant population it's really not that big of a stretch to have a comparable national average in its workforce in such a small country.

Didn't know Newton was married to a catholic.

PVNevin

I also was aware of Emerson's 'looseness' with the figures; but I think the numbers he suggests are closer than yours.
On another point, it is only of a certain secondary value that his wife is Catholic.
Who knows, she may be an arch Unionist?

The most important issue is that workers must, and do, reject the sectarian split/ head count. And instead base their political calculations on the interests of working people as a whole. Analyse the DUP, and Sinn Fein, from the perspective of class.

This class analysis is the prospect that is beginning to open up again.
Paisley and his gang; and Sinn Fein and their phoney claims to progressives, are both now threadbare. They are in situ simply by inertia.
The socialist alternative has not yet been presented, to replace these con artists.

I think commentators on social media must have the courage of their convictions and fight the socialist corner.
Sectarian arguments are essentially not at all strong and base themselves totally on the 'facts on the ground'.

Well, supposedly a fact on the ground was that the Wrightbus workers were dyed-in-the-wool reactionaries (because they vote, supposedly, DUP).
Do you think those workers you saw on UTV were these ogres the idea of which the pseudo lefts and Sinn Fein constantly perpetuate?
(There is a short tv piece at the end of this report:
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2019-09-26/growing-staff-anger-as-hopes-fade-for-wrightbus-buyer/
)
This is a very useful socialist analysis on the rotten heart of unions:
"Why are trade unions hostile to socialism?"
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/28/matu-s28.html

Where were the union 'champions' of workers while the Wrights were stripping the company of its worth? A practice that was in the published accounts for years.
Unite are acting now as job agents for other companies.
Occupy Wrightbus? Unite recoil in horror at the thought.

humberklog

Don't get me wrong PV i wasn't banging a drum for parity and i know my figures are askew.
I heard a brief synopsis of the "traditions" of the workforce/town on the radio and did think to myself... "I'd have thought things had changed up there by now...".

Part of your post reads like what the late David Irvine (PUP) used to say. A man i generally agreed with.

ongarite

See this Twitter thread.
Someone has done a deep dive on the Wright company structure and finances.
https://twitter.com/dup_online/status/1175358929162907648?s=19

PVNevin

humberklog wrote: »

Don't get me wrong PV i wasn't banging a drum for parity and i know my figures are askew.
I heard a brief synopsis of the "traditions" of the workforce/town on the radio and did think to myself... "I'd have thought things had changed up there by now...".

Part of your post reads like what the late David Irvine (PUP) used to say. A man i generally agreed with.

"..a brief synopsis of the traditions of the workforce/ town on the radio..."

By whom? Can you link this?
And the workforce themselves, as opposed to synopses?
Do the Wrightbus workers not have the right to be listened to directly.
As opposed to spin from cynical commentators with a definite, reinforce the 'split' dogma, agenda?

No, the opinions I express have nothing whatsoever to do with David Ervine.

My opinions are based on the historical struggle for socialism. Worldwide.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

aerburdz wrote: »

You can be sure they don't feel for you.

What an odd thing to say. It would be weird if they did, considering they don’t know of my existence. Does one only sympathise with people if it’s reciprocal?

gctest50

Can't say too much i suppose, we have our own "version" here, teh god is the financial manager so he is :


https://mobile.twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/1036994445118464000?lang=en

ArrBee

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you cant understand why it would be legal for the owner of a company to withdraw from it?

Correct.

I thought that the only money you could withdraw from company accounts was your own salary. Anything beyond that is embezzlement??
Also, that directors of a company can be held accountable for the decisions of the company where those actions are predictably not in the best interests of the company.


Maybe the above only applies to public companies or something but I always understood that company and personal money are not the same thing.

Essentially there are a whole raft of laws that govern the running of a company and I am surprised that none of them have been broken by passing money from one family business to another family business charity.

ohnonotgmail

ArrBee wrote: »

Correct.

I thought that the only money you could withdraw from company accounts was your own salary. Anything beyond that is embezzlement??
Also, that directors of a company can be held accountable for the decisions of the company where those actions are predictably not in the best interests of the company.


Maybe the above only applies to public companies or something but I always understood that company and personal money are not the same thing.

Essentially there are a whole raft of laws that govern the running of a company and I am surprised that none of them have been broken by passing money from one family business to another family business charity.

The directors are responsible to the shareholders. in this case they are one and the same people. The company made a charitable donation. The company is entitled to do that. I would be surprised if there was anything actually illegal with that transaction. That is not to say it was a smart thing to do but people do stupid things all the time and we dont consider them criminal.

Muahahaha

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The directors are responsible to the shareholders. in this case they are one and the same people. The company made a charitable donation. The company is entitled to do that. I would be surprised if there was anything actually illegal with that transaction. That is not to say it was a smart thing to do but people do stupid things all the time and we dont consider them criminal.

Probably not illegal but definitely dodgy and the workers who have lost their jobs have a right to be annoyed. The charitable donation itself is free from income tax and now its been reported that Jeff Wrights sister was on the board of the super church and took a salary of £1m in a single year.

ohnonotgmail

Muahahaha wrote: »

Probably not illegal but definitely dodgy and the workers who have lost their jobs have a right to be annoyed. The charitable donation itself is free from income tax and now its been reported that Jeff Wrights sister was on the board of the super church and took a salary of £1m in a single year.

I agreed with Banie earlier when they said this was well dodgy.

Ferm001

Looks like holy Jeff has f**ked over his ex workers again. Owners of JCB Company wanted to take business over, and looked like deal had been done, only for Jeff to up the price on the land around the factory.