Growing wealth

Uncle Charlie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You might have missed my question, which wasn't about inheritance tax. I asked about what percentage of tax Bono and Geldof pay?

I don't know the exact figure but given all the tax avoidance schemes they are involved in. You can be sure they pay very little tax in percentage terms.

It's interesting to note how your 'don't be worrying about what other people are doing' doesn't seem to apply to your obsession with Bono and Geldof.

I'm pointing out how the rich can avoid tax left and right and centre.


Yet you will have a go at me for trying to limit my tax liabilities.


If I was to inherent a large amount of money I would be hit with a massive 33% tax bill if that money went through the books.

adox

Meh I’m out. Going around in circles. Obviously a piss take.

dxhound2005

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

I have no problem breaking an unjust law.

You also have no problem trying to mislead people with spurious quotations. Jefferson never said what you posted.

Uncle Charlie

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You also have no problem trying to mislead people with spurious quotations. Jefferson never said what you posted.

What did Jefferson say then ?

beejee

Very good question. My read of the situation is that the entire world is about to enter a very long period of low to zero growth. Very sceptical of all traditional non-physical investments, the pretend game of unlimited growth is in its last days I think. Pensions in particular looks like a lamb waiting to be slaughtered.

Have to be seriously unconventional these days if you don't want to go down with the ship

dxhound2005

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

What did Jefferson say then ?

Lots of things probably. But not the thing you posted, nor other spurious quotations attributed to him.

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/spurious-quotations

AndrewJRenko

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

I don't know the exact figure but given all the tax avoidance schemes they are involved in. You can be sure they pay very little tax in percentage terms.

I've highlighted the important point there. You don't know and I don't know, just as you don't know what's going on with your neighbouring travellings, but that doesn't stop your assumptions to justify breaking the law.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

I'm pointing out how the rich can avoid tax left and right and centre.


Yet you will have a go at me for trying to limit my tax liabilities.


If I was to inherent a large amount of money I would be hit with a massive 33% tax bill if that money went through the books.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

I'm pointing out how the rich can avoid tax left and right and centre.


Yet you will have a go at me for trying to limit my tax liabilities.

You're right, rich people can avoid tax left right and centre, and you're right that it's a problem that needs to be fixed.


I'm not having a go at you for trying to limit your tax liabilities. I'm having a go at you for advising and encouraging others to break the law, because:
1) of the ethical issues involved in using public services left, right and centre while illegally avoiding funding them, and
2) of the practical issues that you ignore that will very likely cost recipients of your advice considerable amounts of money in the future.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

If I was to inherent a large amount of money I would be hit with a massive 33% tax bill if that money went through the books.

Inheritances, by definition, 'go through the books'. The Probate process involves taking things through the books.

Uncle Charlie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've highlighted the important point there. You don't know and I don't know, just as you don't know what's going on with your neighbouring travellings, but that doesn't stop your assumptions to justify breaking the law.

Just going by official figures tells us that 84% travellers are unemployed.

But you seem to think that Travellers that live near me have jobs.

https://www.thejournal.ie/84-per-cent-of-travellers-unemployed-640261-Oct2012/

You're right, rich people can avoid tax left right and centre, and you're right that it's a problem that needs to be fixed.

Yet if I tried to do with Bono does you would call me a criminal.

I'm not having a go at you for trying to limit your tax liabilities. I'm having a go at you for advising and encouraging others to break the law, because:
1) of the ethical issues involved in using public services left, right and centre while illegally avoiding funding them, and

I don't use any public services apart from roads which I have more than paid for.

2) of the practical issues that you ignore that will very likely cost recipients of your advice considerable amounts of money in the future.

Everything carries risk but I would rather do that than let the government rob my money.

Inheritances, by definition, 'go through the books'. The Probate process involves taking things through the books.

Not if a family member leaves you a load of gold or cash.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

Not if a family member leaves you a load of gold or cash.

I don't know why anybody is evening their wit to what is obviously a mick take but...….



by definition anything "left" to you goes through probate and the usual tax conditions cannot be avoided.

Uncle Charlie

Kyrie Tinkling Reimbursement wrote: »

I don't know why anybody is evening their wit to what is obviously a mick take but...….



by definition anything "left" to you goes through probate and the usual tax conditions cannot be avoided.

If my Dad died he could get his wife or another family member to hand out cash to the family.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

If my Dad died he could get his wife or another family member to hand out cash to the family.

:rolleyes:

Uncle Charlie

Kyrie Tinkling Reimbursement wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You may think its funny but I see no reason why we shouldn't become "tax efficient" just like Bono and the rest of them.

cournioni

Buy some remote highland land, and rent it out as a wind farm.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

You may think its funny but I see no reason why we shouldn't become "tax efficient" just like Bono and the rest of them.

This has drifted a long way from growing wealth.


It's not at all difficult to pass on your wealth legally without CAT issues. My kids can receive €320000 each from me without tax liability, grandchildren €32500 each and all can still receive €3000 per year from both my wife and I until then. All legal, all tax free. And I can invest and grow that wealth without having to hide it away in that hole you bury yours in. You're not being tax efficient, you're actually denuding your wealth and deluding yourself....if you're serious.

BarryD2

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Let's say a great aunt died and left you a million euro, could you retire and having put the money to work, live off it?.

Maybe, I don't know but would you want to? The best use for your million both for you and society would be to use it some productive way. So work, make useful things and sell them or provide useful services. Invest the windfall in this and you'll keep yourself productive, possibly employ others and gather/ contribute tax to support services in the country.

People who gather wealth and invest in land, property or financial products are just leeches at the end of the day, feeding off the honest labour of others

wfdrun

Leg End Reject wrote: »

You'll have to lodge that cheque and the bank will ask questions and alert revenue.

Edit: Yes, the solicitor must disclose the transfer of assets to revenue. One of the first things you'll be asked for is proof of identity and PPS number.

alert revenue? how?

file str with CBI maybe

AndrewJRenko

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

Just going by official figures tells us that 84% travellers are unemployed.

But you seem to think that Travellers that live near me have jobs.

https://www.thejournal.ie/84-per-cent-of-travellers-unemployed-640261-Oct2012/

Right, so you don't know whether the lads who live near you with the new vans are employed or not. That's pretty much what I thought.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

Yet if I tried to do with Bono does you would call me a criminal.

No, I'd call you a legal tax avoider, rather than an illegal tax evader - that's a significant difference.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

I don't use any public services apart from roads which I have more than paid for.

Apart from the fact that it's not how public services work, I'd love to see how you worked out that you paid for the roads you drive on, and the Gardai that enforce the law on those roads, and the RSA that enforce safety on those roads. Let's see how that calculation comes out.


And are you seriously expecting people to believe that you've never been in a public hospital or dentist, never got education in a public school, never taken a walk on a public park or a beach, and you're never going to be buried in a public cemetery?

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

Everything carries risk but I would rather do that than let the government rob my money.

Not if a family member leaves you a load of gold or cash.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

If my Dad died he could get his wife or another family member to hand out cash to the family.

There's a few problems with that line of thinking, as have been previously pointed out.


For a start, it's a bit difficult to keep cash or gold safe in a domestic environment, particularly if it is 'hot money' that you don't want reported to Gardai or Revenue if it is stolen. All it takes is an opportunistic burgler, or a targeted attack from someone who works out or hears that you have such assets, or a family member who is an addict or who is under duress from other parties.



The other problem is that you can't enforce anything. If your Dad's wife changes her mind, and decides to spend the money on a series of cruises instead of giving it to you, you've zero rights to enforce anything.


And then we have the Revenue monitoring that will result in you popping up as an exception on a list somewhere once you start using the cash or gold. And that's when they start adding interest and penalties onto the tax due.

wfdrun

wfdrun wrote: »

alert revenue? how?

file str with CBI maybe

STRs go to Revenue too

suicide_circus

Growing wealth results in inequality.

Inequality is bad.

Therefore growing wealth is bad.

cnocbui

suicide_circus wrote: »

Growing wealth results in inequality.

Inequality is bad.

Therefore growing wealth is bad.

Sarcasm noted. Back to the stone age then and infant mortality rates of 80%.

wfdrun

Deleted User wrote: »

STRs go to Revenue too

my mistake thanks

suicide_circus

cnocbui wrote: »

Sarcasm noted. Back to the stone age then and infant mortality rates of 80%.

i'm being sarcastic but this is literally the mission statement of elected representatives like Paul Murphy

AndrewJRenko

suicide_circus wrote: »

i'm being sarcastic but this is literally the mission statement of elected representatives like Paul Murphy

I picked up the sarcasm all right, though it is worth noting the impact of the persistent push for economic growth on the planet that we're hoping will be usable for our children and grandchildren. Though that's probably best covered in another thread.

Uncle Charlie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Right, so you don't know whether the lads who live near you with the new vans are employed or not. That's pretty much what I thought.

I know these lads I've even seen them collecting the dole in the post office.

No, I'd call you a legal tax avoider, rather than an illegal tax evader - that's a significant difference.

Its only a technical difference the end result is the same.

Apart from the fact that it's not how public services work, I'd love to see how you worked out that you paid for the roads you drive on, and the Gardai that enforce the law on those roads, and the RSA that enforce safety on those roads. Let's see how that calculation comes out.

Just in the last 10 years a I would have paid at least 6 figures in tax.

And are you seriously expecting people to believe that you've never been in a public hospital or dentist, never got education in a public school, never taken a walk on a public park or a beach, and you're never going to be buried in a public cemetery?

You have to pay about 20k to get buried in Dublin.


As for education etc I have more than paid back for anything I have gotten out of ths system.

There's a few problems with that line of thinking, as have been previously pointed out.

Not if its done right the travellers are experts at this kind of thing.

For a start, it's a bit difficult to keep cash or gold safe in a domestic environment, particularly if it is 'hot money' that you don't want reported to Gardai or Revenue if it is stolen. All it takes is an opportunistic burgler, or a targeted attack from someone who works out or hears that you have such assets, or a family member who is an addict or who is under duress from other parties.

There is no junkies in my family and no one outside the family would have any way of knowing whether or not we had money in the house.

The other problem is that you can't enforce anything. If your Dad's wife changes her mind, and decides to spend the money on a series of cruises instead of giving it to you, you've zero rights to enforce anything.

Yeah but I trust my family and would rather do it that way then have the government rob the money.

And then we have the Revenue monitoring that will result in you popping up as an exception on a list somewhere once you start using the cash or gold. And that's when they start adding interest and penalties onto the tax due.

The revenue would have no way of knowing if are you are spending cash.

AndrewJRenko

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

I know these lads I've even seen them collecting the dole in the post office.

That's an amazing level of detail that you've retained there. Maybe they inherited the money for the van? Or maybe they earned it doing tarmac work in the UK the previous year?

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

Its only a technical difference the end result is the same.

The big difference is that one gets to enjoy spending their money locally, whereas the other spends the rest of their life looking over the shoulder waiting for Revenue to pounce.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

Just in the last 10 years a I would have paid at least 6 figures in tax.

As for education etc I have more than paid back for anything I have gotten out of ths system.

Wow, six figures in tax, well that just changes everything, doesn't it? Have you any idea 1km of road costs? Or having the stroke centre of excellence on standby waiting for your arrival? Or having the regional cancer treatment centre ready for your arrival?


Write down a full balance sheet of the tax that you've paid and the public services you have used and will use and we'll have a proper look.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

There is no junkies in my family and no one outside the family would have any way of knowing whether or not we had money in the house.

Yeah but I trust my family and would rather do it that way then have the government rob the money.

So definitely no-one with a drinking problem, or a gambling problem, or a porn addiction problem - the problems people don't talk about at all with anyone until disaster strikes? You know there's lots of families out there do didn't think they had any 'problems', until things unravelled.


And do you trust everyone who sees you spending the money - whether the tradesman or the travel agent or the local restaurant or garage. It's fairly impossible to do anything with money without people noticing.

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

The revenue would have no way of knowing if are you are spending cash.

Bwaahaahaa. That's funny. You have no clue about the sophistication of technology used in Revenue to analyse a whole range of factors. If you're travelling more than your peers, or owning a nicer car than your peers, or getting more work done on your house than your peers, Revenue will notice one day. The money isn't going to much use to you if you keep it in a box under the bed. It has to come out somewhere.

Uncle Charlie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Bwaahaahaa. That's funny. You have no clue about the sophistication of technology used in Revenue to analyse a whole range of factors. If you're travelling more than your peers, or owning a nicer car than your peers, or getting more work done on your house than your peers, Revenue will notice one day. The money isn't going to much use to you if you keep it in a box under the bed. It has to come out somewhere.

How would the Revenue know how I spend my cash ?


Like if I went out every night on the town and spent a few hundred quid every night 7 days a week. The Revenue would have no way of picking up on that.

AndrewJRenko

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

How would the Revenue know how I spend my cash ?


Like if I went out every night on the town and spent a few hundred quid every night 7 days a week. The Revenue would have no way of picking up on that.

The scenario is fairly unlikely, isn't it? No-one is going to be spending a few hundred quid seven nights a week.


But to answer your question - because something about your 'on the record' spending will be significantly different to your peers, which will result in you appearing on someone's list for closer attention.

Uncle Charlie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The scenario is fairly unlikely, isn't it? No-one is going to be spending a few hundred quid seven nights a week.


But to answer your question - because something about your 'on the record' spending will be significantly different to your peers, which will result in you appearing on someone's list for closer attention.

They would have to be spying on me to pick up anything.


Nobody would notice if I used the money to pay off bills.

AndrewJRenko

Uncle Charlie wrote: »

They would have to be spying on me to pick up anything.


Nobody would notice if I used the money to pay off bills.

They spy on everybody. It's not that hard to use data analytics to monitor large numbers of people and flag up exceptions.

Though you'd want to be running an 'ash for cash' type scheme to go through a seven figure sum suggested by the op on your utilities.

Uncle Charlie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They spy on everybody. It's not that hard to use data analytics to monitor large numbers of people and flag up exceptions.

How ?

Are you saying there is an unmarked car outside my house watching my movements 24/7 ?