Will we ever see a 4 day week?

368100

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-joins-international-call-for-a-fourday-working-week-38536110.html

I dont see it for years if ever!

kneemos

Four day week. Four day pay.

Gorteen

5 x 8 hour days or 4 x 10 hour days. What's the difference?

HorrorScope

kneemos wrote: »

Four day week. Four day pay.

No

368100

kneemos wrote: »

Four day week. Four day pay.

Some quoted in the article are four, eight hour days for five days pay

punisher5112

I hope so to be honest, I'm worn out doing 5 days driving in work and commuting to and from work...


4 day week wouldn't be too much less to be honest as with such high tax been paid.....

dxhound2005

When the Civil Service unions were negotiating for a reduction from 40 hours to 37.5, the members said there is no way we are going to work 37 and a half hours.

Presume it would be good for the economy, too, as people would have more time to spend their money.

kneemos

368100 wrote: »

Some quoted in the article are four, eight hour days for five days pay

Initially maybe. If it becomes commonplace you can stake your mortgage that it will become four days pay.
Particularly if and when a recession comes

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Presume it would be good for the economy, too, as people would have more time to spend their money.

Not only that mental health, general well being among many other factors and another thing especially for families is that they would have more time together and the likes of those working full time would get to see their kids grow up and not miss as much as they do now.

Stovepipe

I agree with kneemos; you can conjure up any hour/day combination you can think of and the management will do anything to cut your pay or save allowances. In many workplaces, you can get the shift or day routine adjusted to suit your needs, but there is invariably a payback; you lose money in your basic pay, which has a knock-on effect on your pension and your ability to save, so it affects your ability to live in comfort. Also, management will take the piss and try and get you to work illegal hours or an illegal shift or bully you to stay late. Hotel and catering industries were rife with that ****e.

It's such a no-brainer. If societies around the world genuinely want to commit to changing for the betterment of peoples' mental health, a standard of a four day week (with or without economic loss) is a massive step in the right direction.

Leg End Reject

We should just go for 3 days, do it properly the first time.

punisher5112

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's such a no-brainer. If societies around the world genuinely want to commit to changing for the betterment of peoples' mental health, a standard of a four day week (with or without economic loss) is a massive step in the right direction.

Exactly...

Lives are more important then death.

4068ac1elhodqr

At the recent uk's Labour Party conference: McDonnell promises* 32-hour working weeks.






*Small print:
The average working week in the UK would be cut to 32 hours within 10 years under a Labour government, John McDonnell has announced.

Meanwhile a top5 favourite for POTUS20 has gone even better, $1,000 free UBI bucks for 'everyone', every month, for circa 4yrs. Paaaaarty on!
If Mr Yang really wanted to win their election, all he simply has to do is find a good printer who can lash out a few containers worth of this message onto free t-shirts.

riffmongous

I did a 4 day week and even a 3-day week (14+10+10) for a while years ago working in a pub, found the 4 day week to be great to be honest, having a free week day makes such a difference

punisher5112

Leg End Reject wrote: »

We should just go for 3 days, do it properly the first time.

Seriously though 4 days is the most someone should be working especially when you see what those that don't even put in an hour never mind a day.....

Live is more important then work.. no need for for sarcasm.

voldejoie

I can't see it any time soon tbh. If anything I think my company would like us to work a 6 day week, to increase availability.

Plus I could definitely see the "Ireland is a great place to do business" lobby crusading against any meaningful attempt to reduce the work week by a day.

God it would be great though. Great for working parents and people with long commutes and just in general to improve work/life balance and allow for more free time.

Leg End Reject

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seriously though 4 days is the most someone should be working especially when you see what those that don't even put in an hour never mind a day.....

Live is more important then work.. no need for for sarcasm.

I'm not being sarcastic, I'd rather 3 long days in work and 4 days to myself. Weekends are a blur, they're far too short. A good night out on Saturday and Sunday is a lost day.

punisher5112

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I'm not being sarcastic, I'd rather 3 long days in work and 4 days to myself. Weekends are a blur, they're far too short. A good night out on Saturday and Sunday is a lost day.

Ok I thought you were been smart... My bad..

AulWan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When the Civil Service unions were negotiating for a reduction from 40 hours to 37.5, the members said there is no way we are going to work 37 and a half hours.

Thats 37.5 hours is time working at their desk. Its not the full "working day" as it doesn't include time spent at lunch, which is a mandatory minimum of 30 minutes per day, bring a 5 day week up to 40 hours.

Stark

Yeah I remember working 3 x 12 hour shifts in the past (36 hours in total) and it was so much easier than working a 5 day week.

Uriel.

I'd love it, weekends just fly by.
I'm planning to go to four day weeks in about 5 years time when the mortgage is in better stead and it doesn't kill my pension plan. Kid(s) will still be young too allowing more family time. I hope its not just a dream.

AulWan

I work 4 days a week, as posted on the other thread. I get paid 80% of my full time wage.

I usually work between 8 and 10 hours on these days, with a 30 minute lunchbreak taken at my desk.

I love working 4 days a week as it gives me an extra day to recharge, and its one less day a week I have to spend 2/3 hours commuting. Its worth it for that alone. I'd never revert to 5 days.

US2

Stark wrote: »

Yeah I remember working 3 x 12 hour shifts in the past (36 hours in total) and it was so much easier than working a 5 day week.

Doing it 4 x 12 myself perfect balance

Danzy

Gorteen wrote: »

5 x 8 hour days or 4 x 10 hour days. What's the difference?

My brother in law does it, it analyst finance, says much higher productivity, no faffing about, from anyone.

Dr. Bre

One day less of traffic around the world . Let’s see if the climate changers really want to see this

4068ac1elhodqr

One slight factor in all this, is the far East.

I.e. China's GDP in 2060 may well be larger than the entire EU&USA combined at 28% WorldGDP.
India will soon overtake China's population and will also have steady, strong economic growth.
They (India) will also be bigger than the US by 2060 with 18%WGDP.

Chances are they'll both be banging out 12hr school/work days, spluttering out skyscrapers and some very serious hardware.

The West has to balance this up, however with life expectancy in the United States dropping now for 3yrs in a row, vast opiod misuse (greedy pharma), and that Kim Cardigan wan held up as a role model - it's time to re-look at itself.
One trial of UBI (related to 4DWW) saw improvements in health (physical/mental) including a reduction of the single largest killer of young men.

Heard a very eloquent solicitor (Richard Grogan) on Newstalk Drive this evening point out that Irish employers are often not in compliance with the European Working Time Directive, and the Government doesn't seem interested.

That got me wondering, why does Revenue/Dept of Social Protection /Dept of Employment -- who have access to information on working hours -- turn a blind eye to people being worked too many hours?

Perhaps we need to sort that before we even begin to consider a 4-day week.

I won't be holding my breath. The Government is far more interested, rightly or wrongly, in employers' interests.

kowloon

Lowering the hours and hiring additional employees to make up for it should be a great way to lower unemployment, give people more time to actually live and spread the wealth, but it would require a major rethink of how society works.
For now, particularly with highly paid jobs, jobs that require expensive training or jobs that require the presence of particular employees, the employer will squeeze every last minute out of their people. You see people trying to claw their way to the top by putting in extra time, often for no extra pay, to meet deadlines or just look good to their employer. How many look through emails or put in a little extra time at home?
At some point technology reducing the need for labour and resources limiting the growth of new industries are going to force change in some form or another.

Stark

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Heard a very eloquent solicitor (Richard Grogan) on Newstalk Drive this evening point out that Irish employers are often not in compliance with the European Working Time Directive, and the Government doesn't seem interested.

That got me wondering, why does Revenue/Dept of Social Protection /Dept of Employment -- who have access to information on working hours -- turn a blind eye to people being worked too many hours?

Do they though? I imagine most of the people working overtime are salaried employees with unpaid overtime whose hours aren't tracked.

darragh o meara

I currently work 3x12 hrs one week and 4x 12 hrs the other. The extra time off is great and allows you to get a lot done, I think people would be a lot happier given the opportunity but it would require in a lot of cases 2 shifts to cover the other days if in a 7 day a week setup which a lot of businesses are.

Danonino.

In my last three jobs I’ve asked for 4 days a week.

It never happened. Well it did in one job until someone left and I found myself promoted and working 50+ hours almost instantly, hell it wasn’t unheard of to squeeze in over 65, most unpaid too. Another gave an option of 4 days but 4 days comprised of the week squeeze into every waking hour. Practically all of the positions had the usual unpaid overtime, late finishes and work following you home. The two days off comprised of:

1: recovery, exhausted and half the time called into work or expected to be available on the phone.

2: catch up on housework/things to be done/etc.

There was very rarely a day for interests, hobbies or... well... life. Holidays yes, spent cramming as much as possible into the days to catch up.


Thing is, in all of those jobs I found myself comfortably living well within my (emphasis on my) means. I have no loans, no children, no debt and no wish for the newest car, holidays or expensive habits/interests. So financially very well but also after some time, very unhappy. What use is a bank balance if your exhausted and don’t spend it.

I would have happily taken the pay cut for the extra hobby/life time. Very happily taken a hit to my finances so I could spend time working to live, not living to work. There’s enough folk out there who would eagerly snatch up any and all overtime to grab more bucks and watch the bank balance grow...

but employers have a role you have to fulfill, a role they have divided neatly into 5 days of 8 or 4 days of 10 ect. Regardless if you can comfortably get that job done in 8 hours less while having a healthier, happier life and in turn arriving to work happy and healthy. It’s ****e.

One position I held was fantastic money, life insurance, pension plan, company expenses and perks. A job for life, I knew within 2 months that I would be financially secure but would burn out with the working week especially with such an emphasis on taking overtime and covering etc. I asked for a cut to 4 days, was refused. I couldn’t leave that job, it was far too good of a position and I’d be crazy to throw away such an opportunity/career.

I forced myself to stick it. Perform to the best of my ability and enjoy the perks/cash ect. I lasted just shy of 2 years. Long story short: Ultimate burnout both physically and emotionally, forced out through illness. Hand on heart, if I had that extra day to recuperate and actually have the weekend to live I would still be in that position, living happily and fulfilling that role. Instead I found myself so sick of being tired and so tired of being sick.

bilbot79

Danonino. wrote: »

I forced myself to stick it. Perform to the best of my ability and enjoy the perks/cash ect. I lasted just shy of 2 years. Long story short: Ultimate burnout both physically and emotionally, forced out through illness. Hand on heart, if I had that extra day to recuperate and actually have the weekend to live I would still be in that position, living happily and fulfilling that role. Instead I found myself so sick of being tired and so tired of being sick.

The real question for me here is 'does the employer get what they need if you work 4 days?' if they don't none of it matters.

The only reason I see this as a remote possibility is AI and only some people will be able to get it

JMMCapital

No way

Danonino.

bilbot79 wrote: »

The real question for me here is 'does the employer get what they need if you work 4 days?' if they don't none of it matters.

The only reason I see this as a remote possibility is AI and only some people will be able to get it

One of the positions would have needed another staff member hired. Easily trained to fulfill the role needed to cover but more than likely wouldn’t have made business sense as you would be looking to hire someone who only wished for very low hours. The other option would have been hire one more person and fully train to act as additional senior staff. Then three+ employees opt into a 4 day week. Doable but would have needed two more employees happy to lose 8 hours pay for a day off. I say doable because I did it for a period of time in another branch as manager. We had an employee who was studying and wished to cut her hours. Any other branch would have said sorry and either left her go or told her it was impossible. I hired another, fully trained up and three of us dropped to 4 days each. It was glorious but short lived. I returned to my previous branch and the replacing manager quickly had a 5 day 8 system back in place. Was lucky that we had three people wishing for more free time and a solid low hour dependable. Rare but maybe not?

The other (the one that nearly killed me ha ha) had thousands of employees. Always fighting for the scraps of overtime/brown nosing to climb the ladder/ pay loans/ holiday in Greece in an already high paying job. Should have been zero issue in offering/negotiating a day cut. It just wasn’t “something we do”. The fact you didn’t want to be soaking up every last penny an hour was a sign that you didn’t want the job. Without a doubt the work force was well enough trained and numerous that sacrificing a days pay would have caused zero issues.


Another again had a largish employee count. All well enough trained and competent to fulfill the roles and many of them asking for extra hours. Most were taking paid overtime voluntarily. It was seasonal though, so there could have been issues in slow times where staff would often holiday and cover before the next busy period.

Bob Harris

Monday, Tuesday Saturday, Sunday? Works for me!

Wayne Jarvis

I work four day weeks, ten hour shifts. I can take any weekday I want off except Mondays as that is our busiest day. I generally do Monday to Thursday so have a three day weekend which is great. I got a mortgage and bought an apartment this year and my 4 day weeks were very very helpful with that. Having to go to viewings, banks, solicitors etc.. would have been very difficult and annoying on a five day working week. It's great for running errands too like the post office, shopping, cleaning around the apartment etc.. I also do very physical work so the extra days recuperation is great too.


I don't see a four day week ever happening but it would be great if it did.

Richard Hillman

I have been doing a 6 day week this week with 37.5 hours. I must say I'm finding it more relaxing.

Saying that, I do have the option of turning up whenever I like and leaving whenever I want, so I'm basically just working the hours that I'm needed.

AMKC

I am sure in big multi national companies like, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Tesco etc this could work grand but in smaller companies and for people that are self employed it might not work so really I think it should be left up to the employer and the employee about what suits them best and about how many as well as what days they want to work. I do think if someone has a good work life balance do then yes they will enjoy work more and be more productive too.

chrissb8

Can't see why not. Only used to be one day a week people had off a century ago. Don't think there will be much of a need for a 5 day week with automation in alot of areas coming along. Even a small example is accountancy which I have family working in.

Machine learning is making it so that AI can make sound logical financial decisions and also do the books themselves. Then you'll have supermarkets adopting machinary that can do the stocking itself and then just more self checkout machines. I don't think alot of people realise how much easier and automated our lives will be in even 20 years.

Also I think in general the mindset is that younger people want more free time and just see work as a means to an end. There aren't nearly as many people who are career orientated as there once was. People just work so they can have the lifestyle they desire and have no interest in moving up the career ladder. So I think that will be a major factor going forward.

IAMAMORON

It depends on the work and what your doing. But i can't see it changing in a 9 to 5 enviroment. Most companies and businesses want your ass there 5 days a week.

The working from home argument is nonsense. Everyone knows its a fudge and that you end up doing fook all and watching home and away, the chase, tipping point , live sports like racing, snooker, golf, antique shows, sky news, richard and judy, daithi and maura , dr phil, ellen debleedingeneres and childrens cartoons if your really desperate to not answer some rubbish email your boss sent you at half 8 to make sure your doing anything at all.Which you aren't.

Dravokivich

The same amount of work will need to be done. The business will look to acheive it in a cost affect manner. Paying more, for less time isnt.

Akabusi

My company recently offered for the choice of 4 x 10 hour days or 1 day a week working from home, i thought the 4 longer days would be better but the majority went with the 1 day working from home. The company have hinted that they may allow two days working from home if the 1 day goes well. Have to say I've come round to this arrangement, I get up at the same time as the other mornings and have a load of my work out of the way in the time that I would have been commuting leaving me with a nice relaxed day where I can run on a errand or just to be able to get the house in order or to start the dinner early is great.
If the output is the same then whether it is a 4 day week or working from home it will make no difference to the employer.

martinedwards

This is absolute lefty twaddle.

20% reduction of hours means the equivalent of a 20% increase in pay to cover that?

Small business are going to go bust, and big business will employ at an hourly rate to avoid it.

Corbyn's labour is ideologically in about 1972. remember how great industry was in the UK back then? think Austin Allegro..... that's all you need to know!

smelly sock

AMKC wrote: »

I am sure in big multi national companies like, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Tesco etc this could work grand but in smaller companies and for people that are self employed it might not work so really I think it should be left up to the employer and the employee about what suits them best and about how many as well as what days they want to work. I do think if someone has a good work life balance do then yes they will enjoy work more and be more productive too.

Oh i dont know. Some of the global corporate mulits tend to squeeze every last ounce of work out of you. They might go for it in guise but underneath it all they would be insisting on checking emails, logging in remotely and taking calls on your 3 days off.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Dravokivich wrote: »

The same amount of work will need to be done. The business will look to acheive it in a cost affect manner. Paying more, for less time isnt.

We can't equate "same amount of work" with "same amount of time." Some people are inherently more productive, efficient, and focused, so that one person could accomplish in 4 hours what it takes someone else 8 hours to do.

I appreciate that this productivity/efficiency differential doesn't hold true for all jobs, but it does for many. When appropriate, workers would love to reap the rewards of their productivity by being able to end the day early or work fewer days per week.

In short, we need to reward people according to what they accomplish rather than the number of hours they spend in the office.

mdebets

I know enough people, who only work 3 days with 5 days pay. They just need to be careful, so that the boss doesn't notice

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

Presume it would be good for the economy, too, as people would have more time to spend their money.

A big factor to consider for sure.

I often scratch my head about the Japanese and other Asian economies in this respect.

CelticRambler

As someone who works in a country where the default working week is 35 hours, I can tell you that it is an awful system. I work short term contracts, so get to see all variations on the theme, and even though I try hard to work those 35 hours over 4 days, sometimes I'm given no choice but to work them over 6 days. Three full days and three half-days a week is an absolute pain in the hole.

After years of doing these short contracts (1-3 weeks) my "dream job" suddenly appeared on my favourite recruitment site, I applied (without CV ) had an interview last week, great place, gold-standard working environment for my profession and ... I've already decided to decline it if they offer it too me. It's a "full time" position - 35hr week - which works out a 2x 4-day weeks, 2x 5-day weeks per month, because those 35 hours don't include commute time, lunch time, miscellaneous other not-working time.

I had a chance to work in England a couple of years ago and it was a real joy to be able to work - and be paid for - 60-hour weeks, because it meant that I could afford to take way more time off between contracts.

Stark

Your situation is very different to the situation of people on permanent contracts working 48 weeks a year.