Campaign for four-day working week officially launches in Ireland

B-D-P--

So Forsa are now campaining for the 4day week in ireland.



Do you expect it will ever take off?
Even if the make 10 hour working days for 4 days, How would that suit majority of people with kids?

I like the idea personally, but I wonder would the country be able to adapt to it.

Thelonious Monk

It would be great but in a globalised society you'd have to have everyone in on it. I doubt you could have our 8000 Google employees doing 4 day weeks while they work 5 or 6 in the USA.

B-D-P--

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It would be great but in a globalised society you'd have to have everyone in on it. I doubt you could have our 8000 Google employees doing 4 day weeks while they work 5 or 6 in the USA.

true, and i wonder would there be much kick back from the doctor and nursing staff?

Thelonious Monk

B-D-P-- wrote: »

true, and i wonder would there be much kick back from the doctor and nursing staff?

Yeah that's the thing, some companies, and the civil service maybe, could implement it, which wouldn't really be fair. So I can't see it happening.

Tony EH

Working 9 to 7 as opposed to 9 to 5...hmmm, I don't know. 4 days on and 3 off sounds good, but a 10 hour day doesn't.

ixoy

Are 35 hour weeks common? I've a 40 hour week, so that's a 10 hour day, not including lunch, each day. That's very long.

Mr. teddywinkles

Wont happen. Employers just get people in on the fifth day anyways to work. Which mean yad be working more hours. From an environmental perspective it would be a good thing if it could be implemented. Less pollution.

begsbyOnaTrain

Why am I not surprised that people advocating for a four day week, start their conference at half ten and wrap things up at 12:45? :pac: That's probably the full day for them, lazy bast@rds!

AulWan

I work a four day week already and tend to work between 9/10 hour days (excluding 30 minutes for lunch) the days I am at work. Having a three day weekend really gives you a proper chance to recharge after the week whereas before, between family commitments, housework and errands I found I was going back to work on Monday still exhausted. The third day gives me a day off to actually sit down and relax a little.

Since going on a four day week, I have had less sick leave, (I believe its because I am not as tired and run down) and I make a point to schedule anything I need to do (eg. doctor/dentist appointments) on my day off. Technically I could take time off for medical appointments from work and claim the hours, but now I use my own time instead.

I think any employer who doesn't consider offering their employee the option is overlooking what could be a positive opportunity.

Technocentral

AulWan wrote: »

I work a four day week already and tend to work between 9/10 hour days (excluding 30 minutes for lunch) the days I am at work. Having a three day weekend really gives you a proper chance to recharge after the week whereas before, between family commitments, housework and errands I found I was going back to work on Monday still exhausted. The third day gives me a day off to actually sit down and relax a little.

Since going on a four day week, I have had less sick leave, (I believe its because I am not as tired and run down) and I make a point to schedule anything I need to do (eg. doctor/dentist appointments) on my day off. Technically I could take time off for medical appointments from work and claim the hours, but now I use my own time instead.

I think any employer who doesn't consider offering their employee the option is overlooking what could be a positive opportunity.

Can't wait until its introduced.

Pauliedragon

There is no one size fits all in this. Every company has different needs it might suit some. One idea floating around before was the employee gets to pick which day off they want i.e some want Wed off to break up the week others Fri or Mon to have 3 days in a row. Its too short of detail at the moment I feel and I'm all in favour of more flexibility at work. Less traffic, pressure on public transport, child care costs etc.

AulWan

Did I imagine it, or have the French already implemented a four day week / 35 hour working week?

Eric Cartman

We’d use it as an excuse to get pissed more, the the gubberment would go mad about alcohol consumption increasing again , would be a mad one.

B-D-P--

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We’d use it as an excuse to get pissed more, the the gubberment would go mad about alcohol consumption increasing again , would be a mad one.

I'm pretty sure we'd enjoy more family days, and time to relax and recharge.
We've moved on greatly from the 70's in ireland, come join us wont you.

Eric Cartman

B-D-P-- wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we'd enjoy more family days, and time to relax and recharge.
We've moved on greatly from the 70's in ireland, come join us wont you.

ohh im reslishing my 3 day pissup.

AulWan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We’d use it as an excuse to get pissed more, the the gubberment would go mad about alcohol consumption increasing again , would be a mad one.

I have yet to meet one single person who reduced their number of working days who says they use their extra time off to get pissed.

Most of these arrangements are made for family commitments.

How many staff do Forsa have?

I assume Forsa, ICTU, friends of the earth and Maynooth university etc have implemented a four day week already?

How has it affected their operations?

Boggles

Ban the internet and we'd knock out in 2 days.

FTA69

F*ck all that 10 hour day craic, we should have a 32 hour week. We all work out b*llocks off for stagnating wages while profits at the top skyrocket.

Dyr

TBH most Forsa members could do their weeks work by lunch time Tuesday

Quin_Dub

Tony EH wrote: »

Working 9 to 7 as opposed to 9 to 5...hmmm, I don't know. 4 days on and 3 off sounds good, but a 10 hour day doesn't.

ixoy wrote: »

Are 35 hour weeks common? I've a 40 hour week, so that's a 10 hour day, not including lunch, each day. That's very long.

If I'm reading it right they are not talking about 4X10 instead of 5X8 they are just talking about the current working day , but just four of them , with the same money as you are currently paid for 5 days.

Total non-runner for the overwhelming majority of industries and jobs.

HorrorScope

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If I'm reading it right they are not talking about 4X10 instead of 5X8 they are just talking about the current working day , but just four of them , with the same money as you are currently paid for 5 days.

Total non-runner for the overwhelming majority of industries and jobs.

It’s not un-doable, work smarter and plan workforce better and there’s no issue. People assume this would just be a Mon-Thurs deal but you’d be covering 4 out of 7 per week

Quin_Dub

HorrorScope wrote: »

It’s not un-doable, work smarter and plan workforce better and there’s no issue. People assume this would just be a Mon-Thurs deal but you’d be covering 4 out of 7 per week

But the expectation is that the reduced hours would pay for themselves in increased productivity due to happier/healthier workers offsetting the lost time along with reduced illness and the like.

How does a Bus driver become more productive , or someone flipping burgers in McDonalds?

Also - If there was a way for companies to be 20% more efficient with the staff they have , they'd already have found it.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice or that it wouldn't be beneficial to the workforce , but I just don't see this as anything other than increased cost which companies will not take on

HorrorScope

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But the expectation is that the reduced hours would pay for themselves in increased productivity due to happier/healthier workers offsetting the lost time along with reduced illness and the like.

How does a Bus driver become more productive , or someone flipping burgers in McDonalds?

Also - If there was a way for companies to be 20% more efficient with the staff they have , they'd already have found it.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice or that it wouldn't be beneficial to the workforce , but I just don't see this as anything other than increased cost which companies will not take on

You would be surprised by the mental effect of a 3 day weekend/ time off period every week. I’ve worked in manufacturing before that had a 4 x 12 pattern and nobody ever slacked off, you work hard for the time you are there and in return you get more life time to enjoy away from it.

Deub

AulWan wrote: »

Did I imagine it, or have the French already implemented a four day week / 35 hour working week?

And that didn't turn out well. Companies have found a solution around it. They make you work 40hrs a week when they need you and give you time off when business is in a slow period. So you could work all summer and having time off in November for instance. This way you still do an average of 35h/week per calendar year.

Quin_Dub

HorrorScope wrote: »

You would be surprised by the mental effect of a 3 day weekend/ time off period every week. I’ve worked in manufacturing before that had a 4 x 12 pattern and nobody ever slacked off, you work hard for the time you are there and in return you get more life time to enjoy away from it.

Totally agree with that and that's fine and I know many places that operate like that really successfully , but that's not the proposal here..

They are not talking about spreading the existing hours over a shorter number of days , they are talking about just reducing the total hours at work with the hope that increased productivity etc. will cover the cost of those lost hours.

HorrorScope

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Totally agree with that and that's fine and I know many places that operate like that really successfully , but that's not the proposal here..

They are not talking about spreading the existing hours over a shorter number of days , they are talking about just reducing the total hours at work with the hope that increased productivity etc. will cover the cost of those lost hours.

Thanks for the info, was not aware of that - what use is cutting 8 hours of working week? A 4 x10 proposal I could understand but a 4 x 8 no way, I think that would personally increase pressure and stress in my own job

Tony EH

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If I'm reading it right they are not talking about 4X10 instead of 5X8 they are just talking about the current working day , but just four of them , with the same money as you are currently paid for 5 days.

Total non-runner for the overwhelming majority of industries and jobs.

Well that sounds great to me.

But it'll never happen.

Veritas Libertas

Tony EH wrote: »

Well that sounds great to me.

But it'll never happen.

Couldn't care less.

I've definitely read a study (no I don't have a link) where a three day working week was trialled in Denmark. I think they were longer days but less hours overall.

They found productivity actually increased, when people went to work they put the head down and ploughed on.

I suppose maybe it was cynically done to prove the effectiveness of a shorter week, but there is definitely some merit to it in an office enviroment. In fact, most offices I know are implementing a working at home policy where each employee must work 1-2 days at home per week. The purpose is to reduce the costs of maintaining a larger number of desk spaces for everyone in an expensive city. The expectation naturally is that productivity must not drop or it will be revised.

The four day work week can be justified for similar reasons but there are many more too in terms of work life balance and even benefitting the service economy.

Lastly, you don't need to worry too much about what the big corps will think, they just care about profit and our Corp tax rate. I used to work in an American bank, who work their employees notoriously hard, and they liked the Irish because we would work hard. The Italian branch, doing the exact same job, had all of August off and 30 days leave besides because that's how Italy works. It didn't cause them to leave Italy or pay them any less relatively speaking. I suppose where it could hit Ireland is for global or regional service centres, but it is the service industry that would struggle most and imaginative rostering will be a priority.

lleti

Of course all workers are in favour of this. Sure why wouldn't they? Less work!

I see people say "it should be a 4 day week, my work can be done in 4 days but I just spread it over 5, it's stupid!".

Yeah but that's not how it's supposed to be. If you work 5 days you're supposed to have 5 days work. You're not being efficient. If you did all your work in 4 days, you'd be given more work on the 5th day. There's always something else to be done or could be done.

And do I believe people will suddenly put their head down for 4 days and get all their work done? No...over time it'll eventually be "I do 3 days work spread across 4."

Some lad on another forum was acting like a 4 day week would be some kind of magic bean for the economy. "Imagine the extra time we could spend on our hobbies, further education....imagine all the extra money we'd spend during our time off!"

Asking people if they think a 4 day week is better is like asking someone if getting paid more is better.

lleti

B-D-P-- wrote: »

I'm pretty sure we'd enjoy more family days, and time to relax and recharge.
We've moved on greatly from the 70's in ireland, come join us wont you.

I don't understand this thinking there'd be more family days...

Working 9-7 during the week would mean there'd be little time for doing much else once you have a gym session, dinner done. So no meeting up with friends during the week.

And people only meeting family generally 1 day on a weekend anyways, they could have more family days already.

c.p.w.g.w

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But the expectation is that the reduced hours would pay for themselves in increased productivity due to happier/healthier workers offsetting the lost time along with reduced illness and the like.

How does a Bus driver become more productive , or someone flipping burgers in McDonalds?

Also - If there was a way for companies to be 20% more efficient with the staff they have , they'd already have found it.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice or that it wouldn't be beneficial to the workforce , but I just don't see this as anything other than increased cost which companies will not take on

Well we're I work there are 13.5 hours we trade that are better off closed. We could open later and close earlier most of the week. Could use a lot of that time for admin and also our team focus on sales. That's how my place could be more productive, literally done a trail run a few years back. We increased sales, improved our admin compliance and increased numerous KPI's. But the company used it as stick to beat us, "why can't you deliver that while open longer"

Mrs OBumble

Some factories in Galway already do short hours on Friday. I've been told that it's a hang-over from the days when workers were paid by cheque, and how to get out early one day a week to get to the bank to cash it.

In extreme cases, people are working 9 hours for 4 days per week, and 4 hours on Friday. Some places the difference is a bit less. But when annual leave is measured in hours, this means that you either get 40 Friday's off, or a bit less than 20 other days of the week (ok, no one quite takes 40 Fridays, but the idea of a whole days leave for the "price" of a half days leave holds).

In these places, it would probably suit the company nicely to get rid of the Friday totally. Some would happily move to a full time shift doing 4 days/week, and a part time shift covering the other 3. (I'm not sure how DEASP would feel about the latter!)

NIMAN

People need to see past the headline.

You'd be expected to do the same hours, except in 4 days instead of 5.

So get ready for longer days if you want 3 off instead of 2.

How would it work for nurses, doctors and care worker, they are 365 days a year working situations.

salmocab

I’ve recently started doing 3 12hour days a week. It’s great, less commuting days and the early start and late finish mean PT is reasonably quiet. Extra time for doing bits and can collect kids early from crèche for swimming etc.
Downside is on those 3 days I pretty much don’t see the kids, maybe the older fella for a half hour before he goes to bed but the pay off for quality time makes that worth it. 12 hour days are long though and can be quite tiring.

Leg End Reject

I'd happily work 3 very long days, it's not as if most of us do much after work. 4 days a week to myself would be great.

Homelander

I used to work 4 days, two 12 hour shifts and two 9 hour shifts. It was brilliant to be honest, having the 3 days off is so much better. I'd very happily work extra hours on the 4 days to go back to that.

Mrs OBumble

mariaalice wrote: »

How would it work for nurses, doctors and care worker, they are 365 days a year working situations.

Many hospital nurses already work 3 or 4 x 12 hours shifts per week.

Lots of jobs provide extended cover and not a 5 day week anyway. Lots already offer combinations of hours based on what workers want.

seamus

ixoy wrote: »

Are 35 hour weeks common? I've a 40 hour week, so that's a 10 hour day, not including lunch, each day. That's very long.

37.5 is the typical in my experience. 9-5:30 with an hour for lunch.

Total non-runner for the overwhelming majority of industries and jobs.

I dunno. I've never come across a company that doesn't have a lot of downtime. You very rarely come across anyone who's flat out from the time they clock in until they clock out. I'm not going to claim this is the majority, but I'd be surprised if half of all companies couldn't implement a four day week to some extent.

Ultimately the goal should not be here to create a new "standard" week. The days of a standard working week are coming to an end. The goal here should be to get companies to be more open to considering alternative arrangements, be they 4-day weeks, 3-day weeks, home working, etc.

We're at the point now where the realities of life don't really slot into a five-day, 9-5 week. So the companies that learn to be more flexible and allow employees to drive their own schedules, at the ones that'll attract the best people.

Sonics2k

I worked a four day working week for years in an old job, and it was fantastic.

Yes, the longer days could be a drag at times, but realistically it worked out much better. At the time I did Tuesday to Friday, which meant I had Monday to do all the things I'd have a trickier time doing, such as going to the bank or arranging car/bike insurance, doctors appointments without booking a full day off etc.

It also meant I could bring my daughter, then just a toddler to pre-school and collect her myself and spend a lot more time with her. It meant I could do the weekly shop while she was at school and not waste what time I had having to drag her around with me.

My previous job was actively reviewing moving to a four day week and the trial ran proved the staff on it were far more efficient and happy in their roles for the four month run, however the client we represented in my office decided against it for no real reason at all, they just didn't like it. However in the other offices they did approve it and the four day system is still in place and people absolutely love it, as well as having some of the highest stats across the business.

My current job is considering it, however given the basis of the actual job itself it's hard to arrange.

c.p.w.g.w

Sonics2k wrote: »

I worked a four day working week for years in an old job, and it was fantastic.

Yes, the longer days could be a drag at times, but realistically it worked out much better. At the time I did Tuesday to Friday, which meant I had Monday to do all the things I'd have a trickier time doing, such as going to the bank or arranging car/bike insurance, doctors appointments without booking a full day off etc.

It also meant I could bring my daughter, then just a toddler to pre-school and collect her myself and spend a lot more time with her. It meant I could do the weekly shop while she was at school and not waste what time I had having to drag her around with me.

My previous job was actively reviewing moving to a four day week and the trial ran proved the staff on it were far more efficient and happy in their roles for the four month run, however the client we represented in my office decided against it for no real reason at all, they just didn't like it. However in the other offices they did approve it and the four day system is still in place and people absolutely love it, as well as having some of the highest stats across the business.

My current job is considering it, however given the basis of the actual job itself it's hard to arrange.

I did a half day a few weeks back to cover a colleague, and got the same amount of work done as I'd normally do in an 8 hour shift. Didn't have to break my back doing it neither. Currently in work and have spent most of my day playing Football Manager and on boards. Will have the football on at 2. We get very few customers on Sundays and there is 3 of us here, barely need 1 of us on. It's only retail today, no b2b stuff

suicide_circus

how will this work with customer facing roles?

seamus

suicide_circus wrote: »

how will this work with customer facing roles?

Honestly a lot of places could close between 10 and 3 Monday to Friday and customers wouldn't be that affected. Most of your consumers are working during those hours anyway. Very rare to hear of a customer facing role that's a 9-5 anymore.

A four day week would be easy for customer facing roles because so many are open 7 days anyway.

The supermarket beside me for example is open 7am to 10pm, 7 days a week. Under an 8 hour working day they need 3 shifts to cover the day; morning, afternoon and part timers at night. With a 10 hour working day you can cover the whole day with two shifts.

Dravokivich

seamus wrote: »

Honestly a lot of places could close between 10 and 3 Monday to Friday and customers wouldn't be that affected. Most of your consumers are working during those hours anyway. Very rare to hear of a customer facing role that's a 9-5 anymore.

A four day week would be easy for customer facing roles because so many are open 7 days anyway.

The supermarket beside me for example is open 7am to 10pm, 7 days a week. Under an 8 hour working day they need 3 shifts to cover the day; morning, afternoon and part timers at night. With a 10 hour working day you can cover the whole day with two shifts.

Customers arent just in shops. Mine tend to be in their office when they need me.

seamus

I'm guessing by "customer-facing" though he generally means ones where people ring or call in when the place is open.

Any road, it doesn't really matter; unless you're under contract then it's not important that your work schedule matches your customers' exactly. There are only so many hours in a week, so there will always be some overlap in which to engage them.

Like I say above, the goal shouldn't be a compete conversion to a 4 day week but rather a recognition that there's no real need for a hard five day schedule any more.

Most customer facing roles which are 9-5 Mon-Fri are like that because that's what their customers are doing. When customers stop doing that, the customer facing roles won't need it either.

shesty

Customer facing you could let people choose their four days, within reason.So you would always have staff present.Probably not much different to arranging shifts etc.

I work a four day week at the moment.Works brilliantly.Three day weekend is good for me, my kids and my employer (I am not jumping ship for at least ten years!!!!).I am far more efficient in work and I work an 8 hour day -fully, with no dossing!!!Life happens even when you have a job, employers have to accept this (thankfully many have).The days of being chained to a desk 9-5 are gone, especially if you have kids and both parents work (as the tax man likes us to...)

Time was that there was nothing open on a Sunday in this country and we all survived, so why couldn't we survive a four day week?

4068ac1elhodqr

In the UK Labour are recommending this (4day max) with costs of 100bn or so, however ( conviniently) in small print they say it'll take 12yrs i.e. multiple terms without the Torys.

More likely is Yang for POTUS20, who will supports P-T or gig/enterprise with his Freedom Dividend.

Eric Cartman

AulWan wrote: »

I have yet to meet one single person who reduced their number of working days who says they use their extra time off to get pissed.

Most of these arrangements are made for family commitments.

thats the people who have made this arrangement to suit a need, if we just as a nation transitioned to it, you best believe me and the others who don't have a need for it will be propping up the bar.

LoughNeagh2017

I'd rather not work at all but I would prefer to work three 12 hour shifts in a row or three 10 hour shifts even if I get less money.

Working will be the reason my neck will be tied to a tree in an Ulster forest when I'm in my 50s, 60s. At that age if you are a single man you have no reason to keep on living in this grim world and you would be faced with another 10 years of work until you get a pension if you are lucky.

What I plan to do in 25-30 years is to apply for disability payments for depression and if they refuse I wlll get everything in order for the grave.