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Is Climate 'Activism' Becoming a Cult?

  • 24-09-2019 5:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭ Oneiric 3


    What exactly is the point of these mass and highly co-ordinated 'climate protests' lately, other than to prey on the most vulnerable minds (children) by telling them the world has 10 or 12 years left before it self-destructs?

    And take this quote from UN GS Antonio Guterries:

    "Mr. Guterres told the young activists that he feared “there is a serious conflict between people and nature, between people and the planet.” Saying that there is no time to lose, with so many people around the world already suffering from the impacts of climate change, the UN chief has been bluntly telling world leaders “don’t come to the Summit with beautiful speeches … come with concrete plans,” including carbon neutrality plans for 2050, options to tackle fossil fuel subsidies, taxing carbon and a possible end to new coal power sources after next year.".

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/09/1046972


    The attempt here to convince 'young activsts' that all of the worlds ills and sufferings are down to climate change is not only factually wrong, but increasingly quite sinister. Not only poisoning the minds of the most innocent of people, but also grossly misleading them by playing down the real politics and policies that do actually result in world misery, but I have to ask, to what end?

    At least there as still some sane minds left in the world, but I fear that more and more, their voices will be muted:

    EUROPEAN CLIMATE DECLARATION: THERE IS NO CLIMATE EMERGENCY
    Date: 24/09/19Press Release, Climate Intelligence Foundation (CLINTEL)
    As the latest U.N. climate summit begins in New York, a new, high-level global network of 500 prominent climate scientists and professionals has submitted a declaration that there is no “climate emergency”.
    The group has sent a European Climate Declaration with a registered letter to António Guterres, Secretary-General of the United Nations.

    Professor Guus Berkhout of The Netherlands, who organized the Declaration, said: “So popular is the Declaration with scientists and researchers worldwide that signatories are flooding in not only from within Europe but also from other countries such as the United States and Canada, Australia and New Zealand.”

    The group’s letter warns the U.N. that “the general-circulation models of climate on which international policy is at present founded are unfit for their purpose”.

    The Declaration adds that the models, which have predicted far more warming than they should, “are not remotely plausible as policy tools”, in that “they … exaggerate the effect of greenhouse gases such as CO2” and “ignore the fact that enriching the atmosphere with CO2 is beneficial”


    https://www.thegwpf.com/european-climate-declaration-there-is-no-climate-emergency/


    We live in very, very curious times...

    New Moon



«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭ Akrasia


    Let me get this straight, you're saying Climate change activists are becoming cult like, but in that post, you refer to some group called CLINTEL which is a newly formed umbrella group for climate change denial funded by the a network of climate change denial think tanks

    Climate change activism is being led by scientific evidence that the world is warming and we are getting very close to what could be irreversible tipping points that will have severe consequences for the carrying capacity of our planet. This is a scientific consensus that is accepted by the vast majority of experts in their respective scientific fields. The argument on the other side of the 'debate' is led by a rag tag bunch of non scientists, and discredited theorists who refuse to let their pet theories die despite being unable to support them with evidence.

    Climate change denial is being led by extremely wealthy individuals and corporations with vested interests in preventing action on climate change, who are funding social networks of bloggers, you tube channels, and the worst kinds of pseudo news sites on the internet, with the express goal of twisting people into believing that the scientists are all part of a cult and activists are part of a cult and that everyone is lying to them (except for the climate denial websites of course)

    Climate change activism is no more a cult than the anti slavery movement was, or the Fight for marriage equality, or the pro-vaccination movement. Compare this to the 'libertarian' movement where its followers consume the same bubble of media, which tells them that everyone else is lying to them, this libertarian bubble that shares many of the same individuals and think tanks that also reject climate change because they're thinking it about it completely backwards. They do not like the implications of climate change, therefore it must not be true, and if they don't have evidence to support their theory, they'll make it up, and attack real scientists to discredit the real science amongst their followers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭ Hello 2D Person Below


    No.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,546 ✭✭✭✭ Graces7


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Let me get this straight, you're saying Climate change activists are becoming cult like, but in that post, you refer to some group called CLINTEL which is a newly formed umbrella group for climate change denial funded by the a network of climate change denial think tanks

    Climate change activism is being led by scientific evidence that the world is warming and we are getting very close to what could be irreversible tipping points that will have severe consequences for the carrying capacity of our planet. This is a scientific consensus that is accepted by the vast majority of experts in their respective scientific fields. The argument on the other side of the 'debate' is led by a rag tag bunch of non scientists, and discredited theorists who refuse to let their pet theories die despite being unable to support them with evidence.

    Climate change denial is being led by extremely wealthy individuals and corporations with vested interests in preventing action on climate change, who are funding social networks of bloggers, you tube channels, and the worst kinds of pseudo news sites on the internet, with the express goal of twisting people into believing that the scientists are all part of a cult and activists are part of a cult and that everyone is lying to them (except for the climate denial websites of course)

    Climate change activism is no more a cult than the anti slavery movement was, or the Fight for marriage equality, or the pro-vaccination movement. Compare this to the 'libertarian' movement where its followers consume the same bubble of media, which tells them that everyone else is lying to them, this libertarian bubble that shares many of the same individuals and think tanks that also reject climate change because they're thinking it about it completely backwards. They do not like the implications of climate change, therefore it must not be true, and if they don't have evidence to support their theory, they'll make it up, and attack real scientists to discredit the real science amongst their followers.

    Heartfelt thanks for this. After dipping into the thread on AH re Greta....THANK YOU!


  • Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭ compsys


    No.

    "At least there as still some sane minds left in the world".

    From reading your post you don't sound like one of them I'm afraid.

    Honestly, why do men (I'm presuming you're a man) get so triggered by women, and younger people in particular standing up for themselves and making noise about an issue they feel passionate about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭ ZX7R


    compsys wrote: »
    No.

    "At least there as still some sane minds left in the world".

    From reading your post you don't sound like one of them I'm afraid.

    Honestly, why do men (I'm presuming you're a man) get so triggered by women, and younger people in particular standing up for themselves and making noise about an issue they feel passionate about?

    Wow,
    5 posts in and you manage to go from climate activism to feminism.
    Well done I'm impressed.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    Mr. Guterres told the young activists that he feared “there is a serious conflict between people and nature, between people and the planet.” Saying that there is no time to lose, with so many people around the world already suffering from the impacts of climate change, the UN chief has been bluntly telling world leaders “don’t come to the Summit with beautiful speeches … come with concrete plans,” including carbon neutrality plans for 2050, options to tackle fossil fuel subsidies, taxing carbon and a possible end to new coal power sources after next year.".

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/09/1046972


    The attempt here to convince 'young activsts' that all of the worlds ills and sufferings are down to climate change is not only factually wrong, but increasingly quite sinister. Not only poisoning the minds of the most innocent of people, but also grossly misleading them by playing down the real politics and policies that do actually result in world misery, but I have to ask, to what end?

    Grossly misleading is right!

    And then going on about sane minds while referring to the Monckton man, you've got 0 credibility.

    And who is this Jim O Brien from the 'Irish Republic' on the list of signatories? More alarm bells ringing when someone signs themselves like that


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭ Oneiric 3


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Let me get this straight, you're saying Climate change activists are becoming cult like, but in that post, you refer to some group called CLINTEL which is a newly formed umbrella group for climate change denial funded by the a network of climate change denial think tanks

    Climate change activism is being led by scientific evidence that the world is warming and we are getting very close to what could be irreversible tipping points that will have severe consequences for the carrying capacity of our planet. This is a scientific consensus that is accepted by the vast majority of experts in their respective scientific fields. The argument on the other side of the 'debate' is led by a rag tag bunch of non scientists, and discredited theorists who refuse to let their pet theories die despite being unable to support them with evidence.

    Climate change denial is being led by extremely wealthy individuals and corporations with vested interests in preventing action on climate change, who are funding social networks of bloggers, you tube channels, and the worst kinds of pseudo news sites on the internet, with the express goal of twisting people into believing that the scientists are all part of a cult and activists are part of a cult and that everyone is lying to them (except for the climate denial websites of course)

    Climate change activism is no more a cult than the anti slavery movement was, or the Fight for marriage equality, or the pro-vaccination movement. Compare this to the 'libertarian' movement where its followers consume the same bubble of media, which tells them that everyone else is lying to them, this libertarian bubble that shares many of the same individuals and think tanks that also reject climate change because they're thinking it about it completely backwards. They do not like the implications of climate change, therefore it must not be true, and if they don't have evidence to support their theory, they'll make it up, and attack real scientists to discredit the real science amongst their followers.

    "This is a scientific consensus that is accepted by the vast majority of experts in their respective scientific fields."

    To coin an old phrase.. "science is not a democracy'. And no, climate activism is not akin at all to the 'anti-slavery movement' or any other genuine revolutionary act in history at all. In fact, I would suggest that it is the opposite.

    It is interesting to hear some of the comments on this thread though; really shows how the Cult of Scientism works on the mind. Anyone who might dare to challenge their world view is labelled as 'questionable with 'zero credibility' etc etc. No doubt they are being funded by big oil and fossil fuel companies as well...

    Same old story every time...

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭ Oneiric 3


    compsys wrote: »

    Honestly, why do men (I'm presuming you're a man)

    How dare you.. :mad: I actually identify as 'they/them/their/xi & vis'

    I would kindly ask you to respect my pronouns when addressing me in the future.

    New Moon



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    "This is a scientific consensus that is accepted by the vast majority of experts in their respective scientific fields."

    To coin an old phrase.. "science is not a democracy'. And no, climate activism is not akin at all to the 'anti-slavery movement' or any other genuine revolutionary act in history at all. In fact, I would suggest that it is the opposite.

    It is interesting to hear some of the comments on this thread though; really shows how the Cult of Scientism works on the mind. Anyone who might dare to challenge their world view is labelled as 'questionable with 'zero credibility' etc etc. No doubt they are being funded by big oil and fossil fuel companies as well...

    Same old story every time...

    Let's be clear, the only reason we have this nonsense thread is because it's your worldview that is challenged by the overwhelming majority of scientists and evidence and you have to reach for the views of a few pseudoscientists and out of field 'experts' (the first two scientists on your list of same people are geophysical scientists rather than climate or meteorology, one is Monckton another is an energy consultant)

    And since you brought it up, the main signatory spent 10 years working for Shell, before setting up a seismological research group for the fossil fuel industry and now just happens to have moved into climate. Same old story indeed


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,271 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    What exactly is the point of these mass and highly co-ordinated 'climate protests' lately,


    wow....

    just.... wow


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  • Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭ compsys


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    "This is a scientific consensus that is accepted by the vast majority of experts in their respective scientific fields."

    To coin an old phrase.. "science is not a democracy'. And no, climate activism is not akin at all to the 'anti-slavery movement' or any other genuine revolutionary act in history at all. In fact, I would suggest that it is the opposite.

    It is interesting to hear some of the comments on this thread though; really shows how the Cult of Scientism works on the mind. Anyone who might dare to challenge their world view is labelled as 'questionable with 'zero credibility' etc etc. No doubt they are being funded by big oil and fossil fuel companies as well...

    Same old story every time...

    "The cult of scientism"?

    Jesus wept. You're actually embarrassing yourself now.

    Out of curiosity, why do you think the opinions of a minority of 'scientists' who deny climate change outweigh the vast scientific evidence to the contrary? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,493 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Denying climate change is akin to believing in the Old Testament God these days - even 12 year olds are beginning to realise it.

    Do NOT ask me how I define the terms "man", "woman", "male" or "female" when you reply to this post. You know the answer and it's probably irrelevant to the discussion :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭ Oneiric 3




    'And now we go to our leader's house - where earlier today, a spontaneous demonstration took place.
    A grateful duck has written a new song for our beloved cause.. ahem, I mean 'leader'.

    New Moon



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭ kod87


    No,


    next question?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭ Hooter23


    Where are these so called climate change scientists and why are they hiding behind a child...


  • Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭ sameoldname


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    Same old story every time...

    The truth happens to stay the same alright. Lies on the other hand, you can invent something new whenever needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭ Akrasia


    Let's be clear, the only reason we have this nonsense thread is because it's your worldview that is challenged by the overwhelming majority of scientists and evidence and you have to reach for the views of a few pseudoscientists and out of field 'experts' (the first two scientists on your list of same people are geophysical scientists rather than climate or meteorology, one is Monckton another is an energy consultant)

    And since you brought it up, the main signatory spent 10 years working for Shell, before setting up a seismological research group for the fossil fuel industry and now just happens to have moved into climate. Same old story indeed
    I didn't even notice that Monckton was amongst the elite top 14 'Ambassadors of the European Climate declaration' It's even worse than I thought.

    Monckton is a complete and total joke and has absolutley zero scientific credibilty. If this is someone to believe above the likes of, hmm, let me see, every single reputable scientifc body in the world, then one should really take a look at where one gets one's information from.

    And someone should probably tell them that Australia, Canada and New Zealand aren't in Europe either


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    Hooter23 wrote: »
    Where are these so called climate change scientists and why are they hiding behind a child...

    Maybe you could try a scientific journal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭ Danno


    Where I live we have a Tidy Towns group. We appeal the whole time for people to volunteer and help out. You could count on one hand the amount that bother. This pi$$ed me off no end. Then I thought about it more. The people would rather be carbon taxed than move their lazy posteriors to do anything. Hence, watch your carbon taxes rise and rise. In the mean time, clean local areas are being maintained by a small few hard-working cohort who will pay the same carbon taxes.

    With regards to global climate change, there is some blame to be placed at the door of humans, and of us especially the big-business and corporate decision makers. However to suggest that all of the warming/change is directly caused by human action is ridiculous. The climate has warmed and cooled many, many times over the millennia. The ones above criticising counter-arguments and counter-evidence as "being financed by big oil" well the same can be said of the climate change side who are incidentally financed by OUR taxes.

    There is rationale in moving away from oil and coal. They are dirty fuels. But if all the carbon taxes collected were used to come up with viable alternatives - i.e. cars that charge in five minutes and drive for 500 miles it would be much better than flying Fiachra and Meabh with their H.Dip in gender studies to Svalbard on a junket to study the effects of climate change on polar bears reproduction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,027 MidMan25


    Finally a balanced common sense post above from Danno. My own personal opinion is polluting the planet and wasting resources is wrong regardless of what is happening with the climate. We have developed a lot of clean / renewable alternatives now and should be using them as much as possible.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭ Danno


    compsys wrote: »
    No.

    "At least there as still some sane minds left in the world".

    From reading your post you don't sound like one of them I'm afraid.

    Honestly, why do men (I'm presuming you're a man) get so triggered by women, and younger people in particular standing up for themselves and making noise about an issue they feel passionate about?

    Seeing as you are bringing the gender war into this - perhaps read this: https://www.mytotalretail.com/post/women-consumers-how-retailers-can-better-serve-them/ and then we can agree that most of the warming can be blamed on the "fairer" sex? ;)
    compsys wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, why do you think the opinions of a minority of 'scientists' who deny climate change outweigh the vast scientific evidence to the contrary? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't?

    Incidentally, it is "science" that gives us the majority of the problems that are with our world today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭ Oneiric 3


    Have no idea who this 'Monckton' lad y'all are on about is, but allow me to join in with you a technocratic sponsored, corporate media approved '2 minutes of hate' session towards him. Grrrrr..



    Let us destroy the few.
    For we are the many.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭ Danno


    MidMan25 wrote: »
    Finally a balanced common sense post above from Danno. My own personal opinion is polluting the planet and wasting resources is wrong regardless of what is happening with the climate. We have developed a lot of clean / renewable alternatives now and should be using them as much as possible.

    Thank you MidMan25. The renewable alternatives are not there yet, but they are getting there, thankfully. Imagine if all the carbon taxes collected were financing their development - we'd be there in jig time. I won't be holding my breath though. Diesel, gas, petrol, coal, oil and peat will be left there as "the old reliables" come every October budget. The very money that these carbon taxes take away from the ordinary Joe and Jane reduces their ability to save for a new EV!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭ Oneiric 3


    Danno wrote: »
    Incidentally, it is "science" that gives us the majority of the problems that are with our world today.

    Indeed. For example, who created the most obscene weapons of war that have been, and still are, being used to slaughter children (in far away countries, so doesn't matter to us that much) to this very day?

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭ Danno


    Maybe you could try a scientific journal?

    Ah, the usual condescending "you don't have the necessary education to know what your opinions should be" - right? :rolleyes:


    EDIT: And just like that the following posts justify the above!
    MJohnston wrote: »
    Sigh....now this forum too? Is there no escape from Trump-level thinking anywhere?
    PostWoke wrote: »
    Imagine being this brainwashed by Koch Brothers propaganda nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Sigh....now this forum too? Is there no escape from Trump-level thinking anywhere?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 559 PostWoke


    Imagine being this brainwashed by Koch Brothers propaganda nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭ Akrasia


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Sigh....now this forum too? Is there no escape from Trump-level thinking anywhere?

    There are some very prominent members of this forum who do not accept the seriousness of Climate change unfortunately.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    Danno wrote: »
    Ah, the usual condescending "you don't have the necessary education to know what your opinions should be" - right? :rolleyes:


    EDIT: And just like that the following posts justify the above!

    Hold on, they asked where the scientists are, that's the answer. They're not hiding behind a little girl as it was put, they are doing and publishing their research the same way they all have


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,194 ✭✭✭✭ Akrasia


    Danno wrote: »
    Ah, the usual condescending "you don't have the necessary education to know what your opinions should be" - right? :rolleyes:
    Well it was a direct response to someone accusing scientists of hiding behind a 16 year old girl

    They're not hiding, they're either presenting at the climate change conference, or they're engaged in active research, or they're involved in releasing reports like the latest IPCC report from this week which is further evidence that we need to rapidly decarbonise to avoid potentially disasterous consequence


This discussion has been closed.
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