Buying a car with it's EGR and DPF removed/blanked

lawred2

Are there any legal implications? Implications for an NCT etc?

Henry Ford III

It won't pass the NCT?

lawred2

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It won't pass the NCT?

Is that a statement or a question?

The car being sold has only recently passed the NCT so either then tester was lax or the test doesn't actively check for EGR/DPFs specifically.

TheShow

Question is why would you?

ShadowHearth

I would not touch any car, with these things messed with.
Some lads I know in garages laughing: we got payed to remove these things and soon people will pay to put them back in.
Ncts will very soon clap down on this removal and these cars will be very expensive to put back
together properly.

Op, just get normal one and save yourself a few grey hairs in the future.

lawred2

TheShow wrote: »

Question is why would you?

Why would you remove them? That I can't answer. I didn't do it. Owner says it was to avoid costly issues with coked up valves and filters.

colm_mcm

TheShow wrote: »

Question is why would you?

Because both items can go wrong, and when they do it costs money.
Their removal could be to fix a symptom of another problem too.
I’m not sure many people preventively do it, I’d say more do it as a cheap fix.

tedpan

lawred2 wrote:

Why would you remove them? That I can't answer. I didn't do it. Owner says it was to avoid costly issues with coked up valves and filters.

Exactly that, they decided that the costs of replacing the dpf (upto 2k) on some cars was not worth it. They probably never nctd the car either.

colm_mcm

tedpan wrote: »

Exactly that, they decided that the costs of replacing the dpf (upto 2k) on some cars was not worth it. They probably never nctd the car either.

That’s a bit of an assumption!

tedpan

colm_mcm wrote:

That’s a bit of an assumption!

Basing that assumption on myself and lots of lads I know

tipptom

Had it done a few years ago,had NCT twice since,never been an issue.

lawred2

tipptom wrote: »

Had it done a few years ago,had NCT twice since,never been an issue.

Why did you get it done?

selectamatic

When the time comes the dpf test will be a visual look to see if there is anything remotely like a dpf still connected to the exhaust system.

Even this is going to be tricky because modern dpf systems aren't exactly located with accessibility in mind. For example on mk7 golfs the setup is wedged right up tight behind the engine.

Is the car remapped? Dpf deleted and egr blanked off are common mods to do as more power can be got from the remap.

colm_mcm

tedpan wrote: »

Basing that assumption on myself and lots of lads I know

You’re saying the recent NCT is fake?

Truckermal

selectamatic wrote: »

When the time comes the dpf test will be a visual look to see if there is anything remotely like a dpf still connected to the exhaust system.

Even this is going to be tricky because modern dpf systems aren't exactly located with accessibility in mind. For example on mk7 golfs the setup is wedged right up tight behind the engine.

Is the car remapped? Dpf deleted and egr blanked off are common mods to do as more power can be got from the remap.

This^^^^^^ is fact and not some of the waffle posted above, the car will have much more power and better MPG. I would buy one with all that work done once it was done correctly.

Bikerman2019

I know a mondeo 2l TDCI that gave DPF issues. The DPF was replaced. It happened again so was pulled out. The exhaust was removed, and the top part - the part facing the underside of the car, was cut open and DPF removed. Then it was welded up again, and refitted.


Car passed NCT twice since and you cannot see any weld. It was remapped and no longer gives any trouble. Also puts out a bit more power.

tedpan

colm_mcm wrote:

You’re saying the recent NCT is fake?

No, meant when I was a kid boy racer years ago! Now I drive a leaf

Truckermal

tedpan wrote: »

No, meant when I was a kid boy racer years ago! Now I drive a leaf

I'm not a mathematician but that don't add up as DPF's only became mainstream 11 year's ago so using the assumption they were trouble free for 4 year's that means you are only 24 ish and driving a Leaf...

TheShow

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would you remove them? That I can't answer. I didn't do it. Owner says it was to avoid costly issues with coked up valves and filters.

No. why would you consider buying.

colm_mcm

Should be pointed out that a car that’s designed to have a DPF where it’s removed is generally more harmful than one that never had one.

zilog_jones

I blanked out the EGR valve in my old 406 because it was very broken and leaking exhaust into the engine bay and cabin. AFAIK the NCT doesn't check for functionality of the EGR valve - blanking is not necessarily visible if the valve is left in place, although close inspection would show the solenoid was disconnected.

My solution to cars originally fitted with DPFs: Never buy one.

HailSatan

colm_mcm wrote: »

Should be pointed out that a car that’s designed to have a DPF where it’s removed is generally more harmful than one that never had one.

How so though?

HailSatan

zilog_jones wrote: »

AFAIK the NCT doesn't check for functionality of the EGR valve - blanking is not necessarily visible if the valve is left in place, although close inspection would show the solenoid was disconnected.

Gas isnt it. With all the world's experts on small diesel engines on hand, the EU never got around to specifying some common standard for selfchecking/reporting/testing diesel emissions equipment.

How odd. Surely it must have crossed somebodies mind along the way ;);)

_Brian

Know of a car where a stuffed dpf was removed, drilled through, refitted, remapped to account for this, and it subsequently passed NCT with very good emissions results.

Cost €250 and took 6 hours to complete.

People do it because it’s a very cheap fix to an expensive problem.

jmreire

Maybe still doable in Ireland ( at least for another while,,,) but as far as I know..it's an MOT fail in England.

HailSatan

What kind of testing do they do in UK beyond eyeballing it?

grogi

lawred2 wrote: »

Are there any legal implications? Implications for an NCT etc?

It is an illegal car on the public road. Modification like that changes the emission, and the car looses it's type approval.

Lack of enforcement does not change the above.

What's more, what does it say about the previous owner?

HailSatan

grogi wrote: »

What's more, what does it say about the previous owner?

They wanted to save the planet by making their car more efficient and reduce CO2?

It's the only emission that mattered apparently.

selectamatic

Visual test in the uk mot.

Here for the nct as long as you didn't exceed the db limit or the smoke limit (which is high) you could pass with a full straight pipe on a diesel. Dummy cats and dummy backboxes are used by some and anyone getting their dpf removed would be wise to have a dummy dpf or just have their old one hollowed out.

The morality side of things is up to the individual.

I've none of the above done currently and I'm not exactly advocating it but that said people who are so vehemently against this type of thing shouldn't get a free pass to mislead or lie about the technical aspects of this (And I'm not implying anyone on this thread has lied either) but I've seen it before both on here and on fb.

HailSatan

selectamatic wrote: »

people who are so vehemently against this type of thing shouldn't get a free pass to mislead or lie about the technical aspects of this

Well said. If they feel so strongly about it they should be making noise about changing the NCT to evolve beyond a token gesture test for "low emissions diesel"


Are individual countries allowed to go on a solo run on these things? I thought the concept of national car testing was driven by the EU? Would ireland be told to get ****ed if we started asking for real diesel emissions tests to be part of that?

Dave147

tedpan wrote:

Exactly that, they decided that the costs of replacing the dpf (upto 2k) on some cars was not worth it. They probably never nctd the car either.

I removed EGR and DPF delete on my old Audi A4 and it passed the NCT no problem whatsoever, I was advised to remove it rather than spend more money than the car was worth.

HailSatan

I mean... It's no accident we don't have strict tests for PM or any tests at all for NOx, is it?

grogi

DPF reduces the concentration of soot particles by 100x or even more. Some will say that it then regenerates and throws that $hit out. That's true - but that **** is burned and instead CO2 is expelled. (I am not saying CO2 is not harmful - it is in global scale. But it is just much less harmful than PM).

EGR reduces the concentration of NOx by 50x or more...

Legalities on one side, but think about the environmental impact...

HailSatan

grogi wrote: »

DPF reduces the concentration of soot particles by 100x or even more. Some will say that it then regenerates and throws that $hit out. That's true - but that **** is burned and instead CO2 is expelled. (I am not saying CO2 is not harmful - it is in global scale. But it is just much less harmful than PM).

EGR reduces the concentration of NOx by 50x or more...

Legalities on one side, but think about the environmental impact...

So there should be a standard test for these?

And yet

NuttyMcNutty

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would you remove them? That I can't answer. I didn't do it. Owner says it was to avoid costly issues with coked up valves and filters.

What year is the car? These DPF filters were a pain in the @ss a while back. I had a 2008 oct rs on a 4 year lease. Car went into limp mode a couple of times and just before bringing it back I was being quoted 2 grand to replace it. It cost 3 hundred to remove.

That's why people remove them.

lawred2

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

What year is the car? These DPF filters were a pain in the @ss a while back. I had a 2008 oct rs on a 4 year lease. Car went into limp mode a couple of times and just before bringing it back I was being quoted 2 grand to replace it. It cost 3 hundred to remove.

That's why people remove them.

2009 I think

HailSatan

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

What year is the car? These DPF filters were a pain in the @ss a while back. I had a 2008 oct rs on a 4 year lease. Car went into limp mode a couple of times and just before bringing it back I was being quoted 2 grand to replace it. It cost 3 hundred to remove.

That's why people remove them.

There should be some watertight super warranty on all emissions control equipment. Make it the manufacturers problem. Anyone see the EU going for that?


Nobody?


Nobody?

grogi

HailSatan wrote: »

So there should be a standard test for these?

And yet

Absolutely. Unfortunately it is very difficult to test for NOx and unfeasible at this stage to have every NCT centre to perform such test.

grogi

HailSatan wrote: »

There should be some watertight super warranty on all emissions control equipment. Make it the manufacturers problem. Anyone see the EU going for that?


Nobody?


Nobody?

That would be brilliant. Plus physical limitations of the engine construction, so it won't work without emission control.

NuttyMcNutty

lawred2 wrote: »

2009 I think

Yeah certain models around that time were piss poor, last couple of diesels from 2013 up to now I have not had a problem.

jmreire

HailSatan wrote: »

What kind of testing do they do in UK beyond eyeballing it?

"The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency has caught 1,800 drivers since 2014 driving with the pollution-reducing filter removed from their car. While it's not illegal to remove a car's DPF, it is illegal to drive without it if one should be fitted.Oct 30, 2017"
"A new MOT Inspection Manual draft document is the MOT test for diesel cars is changing.
The most significant area for diesel car owners is stricter rules on the permissible level of emissions of cars fitted with a DPF. If a car’s exhaust emits visible smoke of any colour, it will fail the MOT test.
Testers are also required to check if diesel cars’ DPFs have been tampered with or removed. If there are visible signs of this, the tester must refuse to test the car unless the owner can provide a legitimate reason for it having been removed, such as for cleaning. It’s already illegal to drive a vehicle that has had its DPF removed.

Murof

I've a 2012 Mondeo and the DPF caused me untold trouble. Limp mode popped up so DPF was removed and cleaned at a cost of €300, this didn't work so the vapouriser was replaced at a cost of €300. Numerous forced regens later it was eventually put right but if I had have knew the pain it would cause I would have gutted it the first time. The next time something goes wrong with it, it's coming out for good. Stupid things. Will blank the EGR too if that acts up. I care about the environment and all that jazz but if it's costing me a small fortune it can go to hell for all I care.

listermint

Most of these dpf and egr removal owners should never have had a diesel in the first place. Period.

Removing systems because their mileage and their driving style doesn't suit the car.

HailSatan

But diesel is saving the environment isn't it?

listermint

HailSatan wrote: »

But diesel is saving the environment isn't it?

You've made your point.


It's boring now.

Done?

cnocbui

Buy a car that runs on petrol.

HailSatan

Most of these dpf and egr removal owners should never have had a diesel in the first place. Period.

Removing systems because their mileage and their driving style doesn't suit the car.

cnocbui

HailSatan wrote: »

Most of these dpf and egr removal owners should never have had a diesel in the first place. Period.

Removing systems because their mileage and their driving style doesn't suit the car.

Blame the stupid Irish government for using tax measures to force people to buy diesels.

HailSatan

You've made your point.


It's boring now.

Done?

cnocbui

HailSatan wrote: »

You've made your point.


It's boring now.

Done?

No, just getting warmed up.

grogi

HailSatan wrote: »

Most of these dpf and egr removal owners should never have had a diesel in the first place. Period.

Removing systems because their mileage and their driving style doesn't suit the car.

Nonsense.

DPFs clog because there is too much fuel in the mixture. This is typically caused by otherwise harmless leak between air mass sensor and the cylinder. The engine simply thinks it gets more air than actually gets into it, and doses the fuel accordingly...