tiling on old pine floor boards- unstable

seefin

Got bathroom tiles recently. There's slight movement on a few tiles and have scraped my toe a few times on edge of tiles that are a bit higher than others and sharp edges. Someone was saying should have put plywood down first but the saying is using plywood isn't recommended any more and it was down correctly. Either way am left with a problem and to be honest am worried the tiles will get more unstable over time and start coming off or moving more. Anyone know a solution?

DublinDilbert

Tiles shouldn't be moving and also should be level, the adhesive should take up the difference in height. Thousands of floors all over the country are tiled on ply wood and are absolutely fine. The last few i've done i used magnesium board, available from most builder providers and it does the job quite well, won't absorb water, gives a nice stable surface for tiling on.

seefin

DublinDilbert wrote:

Tiles shouldn't be moving and also should be level, the adhesive should take up the difference in height. Thousands of floors all over the country are tiled on ply wood and are absolutely fine. The last few i've done i used magnesium board, available from most builder providers and it does the job quite well, won't absorb water, gives a nice stable surface for tiling on.

Tiling already done on pine floorboards though. Do we have to take up and start again, this time using backing board or what. There's Cory board down(not sure if spelt right). Maybe only a few tiles that aren't level but we're afraid that the unevenness was caused by tiles moving and that the problem will get worse over time. we haven't paid balance yet to tiler and want to be sure won't get worse.

DublinDilbert

Ok so some board was put down?? Is cory board the same as hard board? Can you take a pic at the edge of the tiles?

Hardboard is too thin for tiling and should only be used under lino etc... Base should be firm, level and tiles should be level, no sharp edges.

seefin

No hardwood was out down . Just this green and yellow soft material in photo. Don't know name, sorry. A few tiles aren't level and can see some cracks in grouting. Don't know if this is because they have shifted or if they were laid wrong day one. Bathroom guy said that he has it done right. Maybe he used some special adhesive that works on floorboards?

seefin

Here are some photos of tiles

listermint

This job is just all-round terrible.

Ply wood should have been out down and fixed to the pine. Then tiles fixed to the board.

This bathroom company are absolutely woeful. I've seen amateur jobs that are ten times better. I'd be livid.

Sixtoes

That looks like a disaster. Corriboard is what they use for election posters and packaging.

Stigura

There was once a raised railway line. At the bottom of its embankment ran a fence. Railway side of the fence was brambles. Other side of the fence was a very well kept public path.

The brambles became infested with rats. The local council, having, by then practicaly washed their hands of rodent control, paid some private 'professional' to deal with it.

What this idiot did was, basically, walk along the fence with a bucket of rat bait. Chucking handfuls over the fence. As a pro'; I was disgusted.

But, seeing those photo's? Wow! Speechless. I truly do now believe I've about seen it all.

Was this lads name " Yosser "?

cheif kaiser

Had a new bathroom installed about a year ago and they used Magnesium board screwed down to the floor boards. No issues with movement whatsoever.

Have also seen many bathroom installed on top of Ply and many have had issues such as cracking along the seams and lifting in areas.

Magnesium Board seems the better option IMHO.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

seefin wrote: »

Tiling already done on pine floorboards though. Do we have to take up and start again, this time using backing board or what. There's Cory board down(not sure if spelt right). Maybe only a few tiles that aren't level but we're afraid that the unevenness was caused by tiles moving and that the problem will get worse over time. we haven't paid balance yet to tiler and want to be sure won't get worse.

You need a solid backing board, corriboard is too lightweight and flexible, the adherence would be bad too as its plastic.

If that was my bathroom the whole lot would be up and redone. You already have uneven tiles and cracked grout and its on a recent job.

The finish is not good and there's way too much movement on the tiles with the current underlay, imagine what it will be like after you have spent a few years walking/showering etc on it.

Was this tiler recommended?

Sardonicat

A coat of wood primer on the ply stops it absorbing the tile adhesive. Tiled the bathroom floor 5 years ago and it's still perfect.

RobbieMD

What’s under the tiles looks to me like Qmat. A movement mat for tiling over.

Lumen

RobbieMD wrote: »

What’s under the tiles looks to me like Qmat. A movement mat for tiling over.

But that's for lateral decoupling, not for stiffness.

The tiles have lifted because there is vertical movement in the substrate.

It's a bizarre choice of materials for a really simple job. Baffling.

cheif kaiser

Looks like this stuff https://www.amazon.co.uk/DURAL-DUR709-Durabase-Anti-Crack-Matting/dp/B00C9KYX7A and is supposed to be installed like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXgqJOX0UEA

Maybe just not installed correctly!??!

RobbieMD

Lumen wrote: »

But that's for lateral decoupling, not for stiffness.

The tiles have lifted because there is vertical movement in the substrate.

It's a bizarre choice of materials for a really simple job. Baffling.

I was just addressing the thought that the tiler had used corriboard when it looks like it’s a movement mat he’s used.

seefin

RobbieMD wrote:

I was just addressing the thought that the tiler had used corriboard when it looks like it’s a movement mat he’s used.

My partner thought it was corroboard bit you're right it's likely qmat . So they should have used ply or magnesium board underneath this?

dodzy

Tiles up and redo

jmBuildExt

If there's significant movement in the joists or floorboards, that will have to be (or should have been) addressed before putting anything down.
(that will likely be your bathroom company's "defence")

Lumen

RobbieMD wrote: »

I was just addressing the thought that the tiler had used corriboard when it looks like it’s a movement mat he’s used.

No, as far as I can tell that movement mat is only a couple of mm thick and doesn't have a corrugated profile.

I thought you meant it had movement mat on top of the corriboard.

seefin

Lumen wrote:

No, as far as I can tell that movement mat is only a couple of mm thick and doesn't have a corrugated profile.

A few tile companies we called into today have said that qmat alone should be fine on floorboards? It's a new product and same effect as backer board

Lumen

seefin wrote: »

A few tile companies we called into today have said that qmat alone should be fine on floorboards? It's a new product and same effect as backer board

I don't see how it can. It seems to be designed to go on top of a screed or very solid wooden substrate, and is designed to allow differential movement in the lateral plane (i.e. slippage without cracking) not add stiffness.

Pine floorboards frequently have movement in them, depending on how they're attached to the joists below and how those joists are designed (i.e. span lengths, timber dimensions).

The source of truth in these matters is the product data sheet or application guide provided by the manufacturer.

mick121

Just throwing in my 2 cents here.I am not a tiler but have worked alongside and with them for many years,many moons ago and I do tile myself every now and again.What I was shown may be outdated but has served me well for many years.Check all floorboards are fixed well and rectify if needed.6 mm wbp plywood screwed down every 4 to 5 inches with no.4x25 screws.Your talking upwards of 250 screws per 8x4 sheet

RobbieMD

Lumen wrote: »

No, as far as I can tell that movement mat is only a couple of mm thick and doesn't have a corrugated profile.

I thought you meant it had movement mat on top of the corriboard.

I’ve only ever used qmat as a movement mat, and it has a rough textured finish on both sides, and is only a few mm thick, their site says its 3mm thick. Definetly looks like qmat to me. Op ask the tiler/ bathroom crowd what they used? Don’t mention the mat and see what they say.

listermint

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Had a new bathroom installed about a year ago and they used Magnesium board screwed down to the floor boards. No issues with movement whatsoever.

Have also seen many bathroom installed on top of Ply and many have had issues such as cracking along the seams and lifting in areas.

Magnesium Board seems the better option IMHO.

Magnesium board is for walls. Its too brittle for a floor, this is not sound advice. It has its uses but throwing it on the floor because they forgot to get Ply is not it which i would imagine is what happened in your case.

listermint

mick121 wrote: »

Just throwing in my 2 cents here.I am not a tiler but have worked alongside and with them for many years,many moons ago and I do tile myself every now and again.What I was shown may be outdated but has served me well for many years.Check all floorboards are fixed well and rectify if needed.6 mm wbp plywood screwed down every 4 to 5 inches with no.4x25 screws.Your talking upwards of 250 screws per 8x4 sheet

This!



And avoid the pipes ! :cool:

K.Flyer

At the end of the day, whatever they used was not fit for purpose. It is a shocking job and the tiling company should rectify it, even if that means pulling it all back up and doing it right.
Back when we used to do full bathroom renovations it was the method as described by Mick121 above that we followed and never had any problems with movement and tiles coming loose.

seefin

K.Flyer wrote:

At the end of the day, whatever they used was not fit for purpose. It is a shocking job and the tiling company should rectify it, even if that means pulling it all back up and doing it right. Back when we used to do full bathroom renovations it was the method as described by Mick121 above that we followed and never had any problems with movement and tiles coming loose.

Am so confused now. Bathroom guy said plywood more likely to cause issues and the qmat is best option. He's said they screwed down floorboards and then used the qmat. Thinks maybe his tilers just used too much adhesive in places and that's why some tiles are raised. Going to get a few tilers to call in during week and see what they say. I don't want hassle of ripping them out so hoping it's only the few kick up ones that need replacing and not entire floor. It's only bathroom in the house and we've already had 7 days of disruption during the refurb. Can't cope with 3 more days if entire floor has to come up. But if has to then it has to

listermint

seefin wrote: »

Am so confused now. Bathroom guy said plywood more likely to cause issues and the qmat is best option. He's said they screwed down floorboards and then used the qmat. Thinks maybe his tilers just used too much adhesive in places and that's why some tiles are raised. Going to get a few tilers to call in during week and see what they say. I don't want hassle of ripping them out so hoping it's only the few kick up ones that need replacing and not entire floor. It's only bathroom in the house and we've already had 7 days of disruption during the refurb. Can't cope with 3 more days if entire floor has to come up. But if has to then it has to

Too much adhesive?!

They would have picked that up when wiping them down.

I don't think these lads were tilers at all. Cowboys maybe but not tilers. Maybe he needs to get them DIY starter kits to make it easy for his lads to level them because it seems they haven't a clue what theyr doing if they can't level a tile

Odelay

Could they have installed the board in the wrong direction? Across the grain instead of with it?

seefin

Odelay wrote:

Could they have installed the board in the wrong direction? Across the grain instead of with it?

The tiles are wood effect and parallel with the floorboards underneath