Irish traffic lights facilitate red light breaking?

The Alpha

Isn't it ridiculous as how when a red light comes on, it takes anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds for the other traffic light to turn green. Therefore encouraging and actually facilitating red light breaking. Drive up to northern Ireland and see an efficient system, the second the light turns red, the other traffic light turn green and if you brake the red light for a second, you're gonna crash.
End result = everyone obeys traffic lights.
What is the logic of waiting for up to 10 seconds for the opposite light to turn green other than to allow red light breakers to pass through?
All other European countries have a proper red, yellow, green sequence...

wonski

Show me a country where people don't break red lights.

Extra few seconds can save lives given the general attitude to amber and red.

In every country.

The Alpha

wonski wrote: »

Show me a country where people don't break red lights.

Extra few seconds can save lives given the general attitude to amber and red.

In every country.

I assume you have proof that the Irish have the best system? Waiting for studies. Hmm wonder why Germans don't follow such a system...

elperello

I notice lately that some roadwork lights are using a red orange green sequence.
It seems to work ok and traffic moves more smoothly.

artanevilla

It's not a lights problem it's a people problem.

Eric Cartman

The Alpha wrote: »

Isn't it ridiculous as how when a red light comes on, it takes anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds for the other traffic light to turn green. Therefore encouraging and actually facilitating red light breaking. Drive up to northern Ireland and see an efficient system, the second the light turns red, the other traffic light turn green and if you brake the red light for a second, you're gonna crash.
End result = everyone obeys traffic lights.
What is the logic of waiting for up to 10 seconds for the opposite light to turn green other than to allow red light breakers to pass through?
All other European countries have a proper red, yellow, green sequence...

those few seconds are the only thing that stop our absolute pisstake attitude with yellow lights descending into carnage every day.

The Alpha

artanevilla wrote: »

It's not a lights problem it's a people problem.

Absolutely not true, make the other lights turn green instantly and see the red light braking stop very very quickly. Once people realise that if you cross the junction on red, you're gonna crash. Red light braking rates would go down to almost zero.

The Alpha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

those few seconds are the only thing that stop our absolute pisstake attitude with yellow lights descending into carnage every day.

Yes carnage. As you say npc.

wonski

The Alpha wrote: »

I assume you have proof that the Irish have the best system? Waiting for studies. Hmm wonder why Germans don't follow such a system...

No, just an experience.

I don't get why you think Irish drivers are any worse or better in this regard.

Its the same all over Europe. Italy is the worst imo, but Poland isn't far. East Europe bad in general.

Sure, nobody speeds or run red light in Germany you think?

Ireland is a breeze when it comes to driving in my opinion. We might lack a driver training in some areas, but are not suicidal as much as some claim.

bmc58

The Alpha wrote: »

Absolutely not true, make the other lights turn green instantly and see the red light braking stop very very quickly. Once people realise that if you cross the junction on red, you're gonna crash. Red light braking rates would go down to almost zero.

How many of stupid Irish drivers would be killed or badly injured before Irish drivers cop on to the new sequence of the lights?We are so set in our ways now regarding light breaking (all drivers know they have a few seconds before the other side gets the green) that to suddently change the light sequence would cause hundreds of deaths (admittedly of stupid drivers).Are you happy with the consequences of such a sudden change to road rules.

yabadabado

The Alpha wrote: »

I assume you have proof that the Irish have the best system? Waiting for studies. Hmm wonder why Germans don't follow such a system...

No one said Ireland has the best system.

Yer Da sells Avon

Someone blasted their horn at me once for stopping at a set of temporary traffic lights when they turned amber.

tcawley29

bmc58 wrote: »

How many of stupid Irish drivers would be killed or badly injured before Irish drivers cop on to the new sequence of the lights?We are so set in our ways now regarding light breaking (all drivers know they have a few seconds before the other side gets the green) that to suddently change the light sequence would cause hundreds of deaths (admittedly of stupid drivers).Are you happy with the consequences of such a sudden change to road rules.

Delighted. I believe the term is called natural selection.

wonski

tcawley29 wrote: »

Delighted. I believe the term is called natural selection.

But 50% casualties would be in the right.

Dont think that's acceptable

Sure we can punish them for not reading the road ahead and not expecting the unexpected...

bmc58

tcawley29 wrote: »

Delighted. I believe the term is called natural selection.

But what about the one who is obeying the rules and is wiped out?That is certainly NOT natural selection.

yabadabado

tcawley29 wrote: »

Delighted. I believe the term is called natural selection.

What a bizarre post.
You would be delighted for someone to be killed in a car crash?

Dont think you know what natural selection is.

lawred2

The Alpha wrote: »

Isn't it ridiculous as how when a red light comes on, it takes anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds for the other traffic light to turn green. Therefore encouraging and actually facilitating red light breaking. Drive up to northern Ireland and see an efficient system, the second the light turns red, the other traffic light turn green and if you brake the red light for a second, you're gonna crash.
End result = everyone obeys traffic lights.
What is the logic of waiting for up to 10 seconds for the opposite light to turn green other than to allow red light breakers to pass through?
All other European countries have a proper red, yellow, green sequence...

Why is it a pisstake?

It's an effort to ensure people clear the junction before allowing more traffic into it.

mikeecho

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Someone blasted their horn at me once for stopping at a set of temporary traffic lights when they turned amber.

That was probably me.

colm_c

Red light cameras with fines/penalty points would have the same effect without carnage.

Yer Da sells Avon

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Someone blasted their horn at me once for stopping at a set of temporary traffic lights when they turned amber.

An example of the needless aggression we have on our roads.


I'd have just drove around you

Cookie_Monster

Irish lights are terrible. The sequences are far too long and 4 way red for traffic to allow pedestrians to cross rather than integrated with the direction of traffic green is plain dumb.

mickdw

The long delay between lights is eating up capacity so should be changed.
It would need a nationwide campaign to make people aware of changes then firstly tighten up on red light jumpers with fines and then slowly start reducing delay timing on the lights.

CrankyHaus

One thing to consider is that the amber period on many lights is not properly calibrated to allow a car travelling at a normal speed to clear the junction before it ends, even if they entered on green.

Quite a few large junctions, particularly on a right turn filter, you enter just before the green phase ends, doing a slowish speed beween about 20-30 km/h, and the amber phase expires before you've cleared the junction.

Isambard

it actually amazes me how many people don't break the lights. No anarchy left in Ireland?

H3llR4iser

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Irish lights are terrible. The sequences are far too long and 4 way red for traffic to allow pedestrians to cross rather than integrated with the direction of traffic green is plain dumb.

This, absolutely.

The delay between red and green on crossing sides of a junction is fairly normal - you'll find it pretty much anywhere, some ROR are often based on such delay (as in, allowing to complete a right turn once you entered a junction even AFTER the red came up on your side). If a set of lights doesn't allow that delay, it simply means it's been badly calibrated.

Also yes, timings and distribution of traffic lights in most Irish cities is infuriating with far, far, far too many light sets are in places they should never have been, like...

- On roundabouts, whose one and only reason to exist is that they allow a more fluid flow of traffic compared to straight junctions with lights;

- pedestrian crossings very close to junctions (often less than 50 meters after the junction)
- Pedestrian crossings on the EXITS or roundabouts; This probably takes the cake as they tend to block the entire roundabout. The Donaghmede/Clongriffin roundabout on the R139 had these installed in the last year, and it's complete chaos at peak times. Kids/teens especially love pushing the button and watch traffic build up.

Also, lights are not synchronized at all - your light turns green and you see the one 300 meters down the same road turning red as you approach it. Stop every time, huge waste of time, lots of energy to stop/start, much more fuel used and obviously more pollution. In many countries, something called "green wave" exists - the lights are synchronized in a way that a car passing a green light at a speed similar or equal to the speed limit, will arrive at all the subsequent lights along the same road while they are green.

dsmythy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

One thing to consider is that the amber period on many lights is not properly calibrated to allow a car travelling at a normal speed to clear the junction before it ends, even if they entered on green.

Quite a few large junctions, particularly on a right turn filter, you enter just before the green phase ends, doing a slowish speed beween about 20-30 km/h, and the amber phase expires before you've cleared the junction.

So you complete your turn and all is well.

Hoboo

If a bike goes through at 10mph it's going to need time to get through the junction. It's not rocket science.

CrankyHaus

dsmythy wrote: »

So you complete your turn and all is well.

At present yes. Should the OP's suggestion of an immediate green light for oncoming traffic be enacted then you've got a problem for motorists who didn't break the lights.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Also, lights are not synchronized at all - your light turns green and you see the one 300 meters down the same road turning red as you approach it. Stop every time, huge waste of time, lots of energy to stop/start, much more fuel used and obviously more pollution. In many countries, something called "green wave" exists - the lights are synchronized in a way that a car passing a green light at a speed similar or equal to the speed limit, will arrive at all the subsequent lights along the same road while they are green.

This green wave was actually claimed to be a part of the 30 km/h zones when they were first introduced in Dublin around 2009 by the then Lord Mayor (Labour). Total codology obvs.

Baron Kurtz

With the presence of every red light, a row of spikes should make an appearance from terra-firma, deterring any renegades. When it's time to go again, and all the poor pedestrians have cleared off, the spikes will relent.

This system is on the way apparently.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

a simple camera with a sign linked to othe other side saying ' expect a ticket ' that flashes up if you run a red
similar to the radar speed signs coming into villages would work well no ?

the worry alone would stop people doing it , judging by the way people come on boards asking about speed vans like they just got a serious medical diagnosis .

Del2005

The Alpha wrote: »

Absolutely not true, make the other lights turn green instantly and see the red light braking stop very very quickly. Once people realise that if you cross the junction on red, you're gonna crash. Red light braking rates would go down to almost zero.

Even if you have right of way it's always better to avoid collisions.

There's zero point in changing any of our legislation to fix road issues, or most of our other problems, what we need to do is enforce our current laws and if that doesn't work then see about making new ones.

fullstop

The Alpha wrote: »

Drive up to northern Ireland and see an efficient system, the second the light turns red, the other traffic light turn green and if you brake the red light for a second, you're gonna crash.

Not true. The North use a red, amber, green sequence.

xabi

fullstop wrote: »

Not true. The North use a red, amber, green sequence.

They also have Red Amber that we dont use here.

Infini

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Irish lights are terrible. The sequences are far too long and 4 way red for traffic to allow pedestrians to cross rather than integrated with the direction of traffic green is plain dumb.

I would also add that its even worse in some places because multiple traffic lights in close proximity to one another arent synced right, ie you get a green light only for the next set of lights to turn red before you reach them and theyre only a few hundred meters away. Would be better if multiple lights were arranged in a notth/south and east/west pattern where all lights along a certain area were set up for freeflow patterns.

Not everyone will break them because they can but some will end up rushing them if they're repeatedly held up in a short space of time its that aggrivation that fuels this.

AndrewJRenko

lawred2 wrote: »

Why is it a pisstake?

It's an effort to ensure people clear the junction before allowing more traffic into it.

If only the drivers had known that green lights inevitably go amber and red, they could have held back and avoided blocking up the junction in the first place.

The Alpha

Infini wrote: »

I would also add that its even worse in some places because multiple traffic lights in close proximity to one another arent synced right, ie you get a green light only for the next set of lights to turn red before you reach them and theyre only a few hundred meters away. Would be better if multiple lights were arranged in a notth/south and east/west pattern where all lights along a certain area were set up for freeflow patterns.

Not everyone will break them because they can but some will end up rushing them if they're repeatedly held up in a short space of time its that aggrivation that fuels this.

You need to keep the jobs for the boys. Intelligence is not required.

biko

I don't think it's the sequence. I see people in Galway driving through red lights long after it as gone red.
If I shoot off when my light goes green I can easily hit the last idiot breaking the perpendicular light. Maybe one day I will upload my dashcam shots of these ****.

BeardySi

The Alpha wrote: »

Isn't it ridiculous as how when a red light comes on, it takes anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds for the other traffic light to turn green. Therefore encouraging and actually facilitating red light breaking. Drive up to northern Ireland and see an efficient system, the second the light turns red, the other traffic light turn green and if you brake the red light for a second, you're gonna crash.
End result = everyone obeys traffic lights.
What is the logic of waiting for up to 10 seconds for the opposite light to turn green other than to allow red light breakers to pass through?
All other European countries have a proper red, yellow, green sequence...

Not entirely true.

There is usually (but not always) little or no delay between red on one side and red/amber on the other side, but red light running is rampant here too. Bust junctions will usually see a couple through on each red sequence. What we do have is the red/amber light before a full green which prevents most for taking off suddenly and having a collision. What we don't have generally is that delay where all arms of the junction are on red.

Cordell

The Alpha wrote: »

an efficient system, the second the light turns red, the other traffic light turn green

It's not efficient, not safe, and definitely against traffic safety guidelines and possibly rules - in mainland EU it's definitely against the rules to not have a minimum period of overlapping red on conflicting roads, as such to allow cars that went in just before red to clear the junction.
The current system is fine, red light breaking just have to be enforced, that's the only change needed.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

It's not efficient, not safe, and definitely against traffic safety guidelines and possibly rules - in mainland EU it's definitely against the rules to not have a minimum period of overlapping red on conflicting roads.

What you say doesn't seem to be true. Having driven in Germany, Finland, Sweden, UK the light on the crossroads turns from red to red amber while the other direction is still amber just before it turns red to minimise the dead time in junctions. In Ireland there is up to 5 seconds of where all the lights are red and this is really really stupid in my opinion. It just encourages the "light red" (see Blues Brothers) brigade and makes the law abiding drivers look silly waiting for ages wondering what will happen next.

Sweden uses green amber when the light is changing to red which is similar to amber in Ireland and the other listed countries.

Cordell

I'm open to corrections, but this was the case when I worked with this stuff: one light goes from red to green while the other goes from amber to red. If a car passes the light just as it turns red, then it must be able to pass the junction safely, assuming that on the other road the driver shoots just as it turns green.
It's not stupid, it's safety over convenience.

Heres Johnny

Green means go
Amber means speed up
Red means next 2 cars only

What's so difficult about following that?

BronsonTB

Some shocking replies on this...Better enforcement for red light jumpers is badly needed...
(It is already illegal, now just need to hit these people much more in their pocket or better still, repeat offenders banned off the road!)

Driving is a privilege not a right. Seems to be forgotten....

Heres Johnny

BronsonTB wrote: »

Some shocking replies on this...Better enforcement for red light jumpers is badly needed...
(It is already illegal, now just need to hit these people much more in their pocket or better still, repeat offenders banned off the road!)

Driving is a privilege not a right. Seems to be forgotten....

Mine was tongue in cheek anyway!
But I think the system in at the moment is correct, you need to give time to clear junctions and it works well nearly all the time. Should be enforcement for traffic light breaking, I see cameras on some lights but don't know if they are dummy cameras most of the time or fully functioning