Daylight running lights = night driving without taillights

boombang

I've noticed many modern cars driving at night with both tail lights not working. I was confused by this until a friend figured it out in relation to his own Yaris. If he drives with daylight running light on giving him headlamps (more or less) he has no lit taillights.

I really can't un-notice this and it's now everywhere. I don't know if it's an exaggeration to say 1 in 30 drivers is driving like this now. I know the level of danger isn't that high as a car can usually still be seen from the rear when unlit, but it still seems a problem.

The core issue is that people don't know how to operate their own vehicles. There's nothing new in that and it isn't going away. However, this stems from a design oversight whereby front daylight running lights aren't accompanied by lit tail lights.

Thoughts?

Cantona's Collars

If people don't know the basics of using lights on a car they shouldn't be on the road.

s7ryf3925pivug

Never seen this.

Simplest thing is if people just use dipped beams by default.

colm_mcm

This has been a thing for the last 10 years.

touts

Bit of a city issue I suspect where people drive at night and have street lights to help them and don't notice they don't have their lights on. Outside the towns and cities you wouldn't get too far with day running lights alone.

shanec1928

hyundai seem to be the worst for the sensor judging daylight. the few different VAG group cars ive found to be good when left on auto only having to manually turn on the lights a handful of times.

Cordell

design oversight whereby front daylight running lights aren't accompanied by lit tail lights

No, it stems from people not operating the lights correctly. DRLs are not supposed to be used at night.
There was an oversight alright when they made the DRL mandatory, they should have made automatic headlights mandatory as well, but even so I've seen people driving with the lights off in cars that I know for sure that they have automatic headlights even in the lowest spec.

aidyhawse

Speaking of lights being left on Auto, so many people think that these will turn your lights on when driving in rain, especially heavy rain, but they don't. So annoying for other road users, especially when the spray is really bad.

boombang

Cordell wrote: »

No, it stems from people not operating the lights correctly. DRLs are not supposed to be used at night.
There was an oversight alright when they made the DRL mandatory, they should have made automatic headlights mandatory as well, but even so I've seen people driving with the lights off in cars that I know for sure that they have automatic headlights even in the lowest spec.

I agree. Just to quote my original post again.

"The core issue is that people don't know how to operate their own vehicles."

Dravokivich

I always just switch on my dipped headlights.

What i also find annoying are the recent cars with indicators, that are mixed in with a headlight / rear light.

boombang

shanec1928 wrote: »

hyundai seem to be the worst for the sensor judging daylight. the few different VAG group cars ive found to be good when left on auto only having to manually turn on the lights a handful of times.

I see it in Hyundais a lot, but I've seen it in plenty of VWs too.

Renault, Peugeot, BMW, Mercedes and Ford, Toyota and Opel all come to mind as frequent examples too.

Salary Negotiator

shanec1928 wrote: »

hyundai seem to be the worst for the sensor judging daylight. the few different VAG group cars ive found to be good when left on auto only having to manually turn on the lights a handful of times.

I've a new Hyundai and the automatic lights are crap and don't turn on when they're needed.

boombang

Dravokivich wrote: »

What i also find annoying are the recent cars with indicators, that are mixed in with a headlight / rear light.

Once I've ranted about the tail lights I'm probably going to have a new thread on terrible indicators (especially LED ones) too.

colm_mcm

aidyhawse wrote: »

Speaking of lights being left on Auto, so many people think that these will turn your lights on when driving in rain, especially heavy rain, but they don't. So annoying for other road users, especially when the spray is really bad.

Mine do.

boombang

Can anybody explain the advantage of auto lights vs permanently living dipped headlights on?

I always drive with dipped lights on. The only change ever being occasional use of high beams or fogs.

s7ryf3925pivug

This makes sense. I've not seen it but you would not do well driving out my way without illumination.

Salary Negotiator

boombang wrote: »

Can anybody explain the advantage of auto lights vs permanently living dipped headlights on?

I always drive with dipped lights on. The only change ever being occasional use of high beams or fogs.

I've started doing this too, can't see any reason not to so the auto lights are irrelevant.

Midnight_EG

It still amazes me that people drive without any form of light, even during the day. It was drilled into me over 10 years ago to always have your dipped beams on because it's another point of reference for anybody ahead of you.

lawred2

Plenty of people I know still think that lights are only for the purpose of helping them see..

Not that it serves an equally important propose of helping you to be seen..

Cee-Jay-Cee

It’s very simple. Modern cars have made people even more stupid than they were.

arsebiscuits82

boombang wrote: »

Can anybody explain the advantage of auto lights vs permanently living dipped headlights on?

I always drive with dipped lights on. The only change ever being occasional use of high beams or fogs.

Mine has Auto lights, the main advantage I find is that it turns on the full beams and dips itself when driving at night. I have the car over a year and have rarely had to put on the headlights/dips myself. They also come on automatically when the wipers are on fully.

lawred2

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It’s very simple. Modern cars have made people even more stupid than they were.

not really

H3llR4iser

boombang wrote: »

Can anybody explain the advantage of auto lights vs permanently living dipped headlights on?

I always drive with dipped lights on. The only change ever being occasional use of high beams or fogs.

I kid you not, people are afraid the car will use more fuel with their lights on (which it WILL, but absolutely marginally). Same reason why you see people scraping away at their windshield with a dirty tissue during the winter, in a Audi with aircon / climate control and a bloody efficient demister.

Simply, new cars should be made so that lights turn on and off with the ignition, end of the story. If they can make driving assists such as VDC and ASR impossible to deactivate (unless you know which fuse(s) to pull), the same can be done with the lights - especially now with LED units that are more durable and efficient.

boombang

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Simply, new cars should be made so that lights turn on and off with the ignition, end of the story.

Is it Sweden where this has been the law for years already? It seems so silly why we don't have this.

_Kaiser_

aidyhawse wrote: »

Speaking of lights being left on Auto, so many people think that these will turn your lights on when driving in rain, especially heavy rain, but they don't. So annoying for other road users, especially when the spray is really bad.

Mine does (Audi). Also lights up (internally and externally) in tunnels or shaded areas when needed. The only thing it doesn't do automatically is the main beams and fog lights.

Agree on the tail lights problem though. My own car was like this (front DRLs only) but it was a simple coding change to set it so the rear lights are always lit as well.

H3llR4iser

boombang wrote: »

Is it Sweden where this has been the law for years already? It seems so silly why we don't have this.

IIRC, in Sweden the lights must be on at all time by law, I'm not sure if cars sold on their market need to be modified to have lights on by design.



I remember eon ago people in awe at the sight of a Volvo or Saab with parking lights

Oafley Jones

shanec1928 wrote: »

hyundai seem to be the worst for the sensor judging daylight. the few different VAG group cars ive found to be good when left on auto only having to manually turn on the lights a handful of times.

Yip, Hyundai/Kia seem to be the worst culprit when it's more than likely set to automatic. Have a Sorrento, and it's a pretty poor judge of when to switch on.

RangeR

lawred2 wrote: »

not really

Well yeah. A bit.

knucklehead6

A lot of the time it people who hop into their car, dash lights up, which to them equals lights on, and away they drive.


My car has auto lights, and the dashboard lights are actually brighter when the lights are on DRL’s instead of driving lights.

Cordell

Not really, technology actually makes people a bit smarter.
In the old days when ABS was a new thing there were people pulling out the fuse because they were able to brake better and the ABS was hindering their safety.

Dravokivich

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Mine does (Audi). Also lights up (internally and externally) in tunnels or shaded areas when needed. The only thing it doesn't do automatically is the main beams and fog lights.

Agree on the tail lights problem though. My own car was like this (front DRLs only) but it was a simple coding change to set it so the rear lights are always lit as well.

Why go though the trouble of a modification when you can just turn your lights on?

H3llR4iser

Cordell wrote: »

Not really, technology actually makes people a bit smarter.
In the old days when ABS was a new thing there were people pulling out the fuse because they were able to brake better and the ABS was hindering their safety.

:D:D

It's a classic, isn't it? When the first Airbus A320 models started airline services, old school pilots regularly tried to outsmart the airplanes' FMC calculations for fuel usage, thinking they could devise more efficient ascent/descent profiles...it was 1988, it's now 2019 and these FMC are still waiting for a worthy human opponent

_Kaiser_

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why go though the trouble of a modification when you can just turn your lights on?

Because it wasn't any trouble.. 2 minute job with a laptop and cable, and because the front DRL's are LED, not using the dipped bulb which is what I'd be using if I turned them on manually.

This way I just leave it on Auto and it does the rest (save for late night main beam needs)

Muahahaha

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It’s very simple. Modern cars have made people even more stupid than they were.

This is true but car manufacturers know people are stupid and their design teams should be designing for the most simple of simpletons

Tazzimus

To be fair, the hint is in their name.
You should still be turning your lights on when it's getting dark. Auto everything is making people lazier.

I've happened upon a good few people using DRL's that have no idea how their lights work.
Then again, these are the same people that drive down the road, oblivious to the flashing green light on the cluster.

stoneill

Auto, just use auto.

_Kaiser_

stoneill wrote: »

Auto, just use auto.

Auto lights
Auto wipers
Auto dimming mirrors
Auto dipping left mirror when reversing so you can see the kerb
Auto parking sensors
Auto gearbox

Auto FTW

The biggest problem is when you get into a car that doesn't have those things!

Midnight_EG

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why go though the trouble of a modification when you can just turn your lights on?

He's made a safety feature of his car safer and easier to use, and you have trouble with that?

Tazzimus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Auto dipping left mirror when reversing so you can see the kerb

I drove herselfs sisters A6 recently and didn't know it had that.
Something so small, yet impressive.
Probably the only auto thing I'd want on a car.

shanec1928

Tazzimus wrote: »

I drove herselfs sisters A6 recently and didn't know it had that.
Something so small, yet impressive.
Probably the only auto thing I'd want on a car.

nearly all vag cars have it. its great!

Dravokivich

Midnight_EG wrote: »

He's made a safety feature of his car safer and easier to use, and you have trouble with that?

We already have lights was my point.

Midnight_EG

Tazzimus wrote: »

I drove herselfs sisters A6 recently and didn't know it had that.
Something so small, yet impressive.
Probably the only auto thing I'd want on a car.

My IS250 had that, except it was both mirrors, and it was unbelievably annoying when you were just reversing in general :mad:

boombang

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is true but car manufacturers know people are stupid and their design teams should be designing for the most simple of simpletons

I really agree with this. Manufacturers and regulators should assume that X% of people are too stupid to know how to operate their car properly. The evidence is out their in all of the unlit vehicles.

Regarding just choose auto: something's not working from what I can see and I'll bet it's over reliance on auto in some cases.

Tazzimus

Midnight_EG wrote: »

My IS250 had that, except it was both mirrors, and it was unbelievably annoying when you were just reversing in general :mad:

Clearly made for people who can't reverse into parking spaces

FishOnABike

knucklehead6 wrote: »

A lot of the time it people who hop into their car, dash lights up, which to them equals lights on, and away they drive.


My car has auto lights, and the dashboard lights are actually brighter when the lights are on DRL’s instead of driving lights.

Agree, If the dashboard remained unlit when DRLs or parking lights were on and only illuminated when the headlights were switched on, people might be less inclined to drive at night with DRLs or parking lights - the big dark dashboard they can see nothing on might give them some hint - if not they shouldn't be driving.


As it stands with some cars the dashboard is permanently illuminated once the engine is on so there's less visual indication whether the headlights are on or not.

fullstop

shanec1928 wrote: »

hyundai seem to be the worst for the sensor judging daylight. the few different VAG group cars ive found to be good when left on auto only having to manually turn on the lights a handful of times.

Those Hyundai LEDs and the clowns driving around with them after dusk were sent from hell. They don’t even realise when you flash at them, so I just stick the full beams on most of the time now, they usually get the message and turn on their ‘normal’ headlamps.

fullstop

Midnight_EG wrote: »

My IS250 had that, except it was both mirrors, and it was unbelievably annoying when you were just reversing in general :mad:

Did it have Mark Levinson speakers?

Midnight_EG

fullstop wrote: »

Did it have Mark Levinson speakers?

It did, I feel like there's a joke coming :pac:

kirving

I can't understand why the wiper switch doesn't automatically turn on the lights, regardless of whatever combination of DRL's / auto lights are on the car.

Second, if a car has DRL's, then I think it should have either no light indicating this to the driver. There is a possibility of confusion if there is a green light on.

I can understand the logic of tail lights being left off while DLR's are on (so as to better see brake lights), but I can see no harm in leaving dipped beams and tail lights on at all times.

My mother focus is the worst. Has Auto lights that don't come on until its very dark out. If you leave the lights just set to ON all the time, it beeps every time you exit the car. If you somehow don't hear the beep if you're in a hurry (or confuse it with the steering lock beep that I don't care about), it will leave the side lights on all night. Absolutely terribly designed system in comparison to the Volvo which shares a ton of parts and control systems.

shanec1928

fullstop wrote: »

Those Hyundai LEDs and the clowns driving around with them after dusk were sent from hell. They don’t even realise when you flash at them, so I just stick the full beams on most of the time now, they usually get the message and turn on their ‘normal’ headlamps.

Ie the Gardai

Cordell

Kevin Irving wrote: »

... it will leave the side lights on all night. Absolutely terribly designed system in comparison to the Volvo which shares a ton of parts and control systems.

How else will you be able to turn the side lights on while parked when you really need to do that? AFAIK all cars will keep the sidelights on when the ignition is off and the headlights are on.