Road fatalities

Thelonious Monk

So more people killed on our roads this weekend. A young athlete and I read about a boy of 5 or so killed the other day too. All killed by cars.
For such a Nanny State country, why is there no outrage over all of this? It just seems to be accepted that a few people will die in cars every week.
Is it because of a motorist lobby or something?
Why aren't speed limits reduced further or why aren't there limiters put on cars so they can't go over the speed limit? Surely there's all kinds of tech that could stop people from speeding in different zones.
It annoys me that the likes of eScooters and cycling get so much stick in the press over being hazardous but they never actually kill anyone, they just might annoy motorists sometimes, big deal.
Would you like to see more restrictions on cars in order to stop the weekly body count?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Road deaths have in fact declined significantly in the last few decades. The roads are better, the campaign against drink driving has worked.

Thelonious Monk

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Road deaths have in fact declined significantly in the last few decades. The roads are better, the campaign against drink driving has worked.

Yeah but there's still people dying every week, and what a horrible way to die.

Graces7

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but there's still people dying every week, and what a horrible way to die.

Is there ever any exact cause given please? And what prosecutions etc?

Mooooo

Speed is the cause of some accident certainly, but tiredness, inattention due to phones etc, road conditions, work /life pressures all contribute so there is no solution that will eliminate it completely

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but there's still people dying every week, and what a horrible way to die.

It’s never going to be zero. Human error will see to that. Maybe self driving cars but I doubt it. Anyway you asked what the nanny state was doing, quite a lot.

farmchoice

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So more people killed on our roads this weekend. A young athlete and I read about a boy of 5 or so killed the other day too. All killed by cars.
For such a Nanny State country, why is there no outrage over all of this? It just seems to be accepted that a few people will die in cars every week.
Is it because of a motorist lobby or something?
Why aren't speed limits reduced further or why aren't there limiters put on cars so they can't go over the speed limit? Surely there's all kinds of tech that could stop people from speeding in different zones.
It annoys me that the likes of eScooters and cycling get so much stick in the press over being hazardous but they never actually kill anyone, they just might annoy motorists sometimes, big deal.
Would you like to see more restrictions on cars in order to stop the weekly body count?

every loss of life is a terrible tragedy. Unfortunatly roads are dangerous places and cars are lethal weapons and people make mistakes.


there was/is national outrage over it and that outrage has lead to a massive reduction in the number of fatalities and a sea change to driving attitudes in Ireland.
as a society one of our greatest achievements is the manner in which we have reduced road fatalities.

40 years ago when there were a fraction of the number of cars on the roads that there are now there were over 3 times as many people being killed.


having said all that its a never ending battle to keep the numbers down. cars are safer but there are more of them, roads are better but you can go faster. we make drink driving unacceptable and mobile phones come along.


as a nation we are much better more considerate drivers then we were 20 years ago. it might not always seem like that when you come across some idiot, but by and large it is much better than it used to be.

Ger Roe

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It annoys me that the likes of eScooters and cycling get so much stick in the press over being hazardous but they never actually kill anyone, they just might annoy motorists sometimes, big deal.
?

With regard to eScooters, the critical mass of usage hasn't been reached yet. There are very few on the road compared to other road vehicles and there is a slow take up because of their dubious legal status. If there were more of them on the road, particularly without a well thought through legal framework to underpin their usage, then I am sure they will become more of a contributory factor in the annual statistics.

At the moment you could also say that unicycles, segways and hoverboards are safe road vehicles because they don't feature in the road death stats either.

Irish_peppa

Do people who accidentally kill people go to jail? What happens their insurance? i assume the payout to the family is in the euro 500,000 plus bracket i hear about people being killed but you never really hear much about the people who killed them in most cases

Thelonious Monk

Ger Roe wrote: »

With regard to eScooters, the critical mass of usage hasn't been reached yet. There are very few on the road compared to other road vehicles and there is a slow take up because of their dubious legal status. If there were more of them on the road, particularly without a well thought through legal framework to underpin their usage, then I am sure they will become more of a contributory factor in the annual statistics.

At the moment you could also say that unicycles, segways and hoverbaords are safe road vehicles because they don't feature in the road death stats either.

Well there are so many cyclists in Dublin now, it's like being in a peleton at rush hour sometimes. Yet I can't remember the last time a cyclist was killed here. They are relatively very safe compared to cars.

KevRossi

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Road deaths have in fact declined significantly in the last few decades. The roads are better, the campaign against drink driving has worked.

Huge advances in active and passive vehicle safety have been as important as well.

Graces7

farmchoice wrote: »

every loss of life is a terrible tragedy. Unfortunatly roads are dangerous places and cars are lethal weapons and people make mistakes.


there was/is national outrage over it and that outrage has lead to a massive reduction in the number of fatalities and a sea change to driving attitudes in Ireland.
as a society one of our greatest achievements is the manner in which we have reduced road fatalities.

40 years ago when there were a fraction of the number of cars on the roads that there are now there were over 3 times as many people being killed.


having said all that its a never ending battle to keep the numbers down. cars are safer but there are more of them, roads are better but you can go faster. we make drink driving unacceptable and mobile phones come along.


as a nation we are much better more considerate drivers then we were 20 years ago. it might not always seem like that when you come across some idiot, but by and large it is much better than it used to be.

There is never any room for complacency? Each death devastates a family.

Padraig Mor

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why aren't speed limits reduced further or why aren't there limiters put on cars so they can't go over the speed limit? Surely there's all kinds of tech that could stop people from speeding in different zones.
It annoys me that the likes of eScooters and

Because despite popular opinion, speeding (i.e. driving over the posted limit) is very rarely the primary cause of fatal accidents - the data available suggest about 5%. The number one cause of fatalities? One car driving on the wrong side of the road. Yet speeding gets all the attention because it's an easy target - easy to measure, easy to enforce, easy to whine about. The things that are actually the root cause of most accidents (poor driver training, zero enforcement of most road rules) are difficult to tackle so are just ignored in favour of the lazy option.

Irish_peppa

is there any insurance company who will give you a discount to have a speed limiter fitted or a tracking device to monitor your driving. If i was getting a decent discount say 20% i would be happy to have it done.

Thelonious Monk

Irish_peppa wrote: »

is there any insurance company who will give you a discount to have a speed limiter fitted or a tracking device to monitor your driving. If i was getting a decent discount say 20% i would be happy to have it done.

Doubt it. The funny thing is you have to have speed restrictors on certain motorbikes when you're starting out but they don't do it with cars.

Fan of Netflix

Road fatalities are monitored and taken very seriously in this country. The amount of Gardai money and time spent on traffic is huge. Massive media coverage. New legislation regularly.

Suicide is a bigger killer in Ireland. Far less coverage. No proper monitoring of suicide rates. Poorly funded. No overall plan to reduce suicide. In fact no investigation of why it is so high.

Irish_peppa

Irish_peppa wrote: »

is there any insurance company who will give you a discount to have a speed limiter fitted or a tracking device to monitor your driving. If i was getting a decent discount say 20% i would be happy to have it done.

I'd happily pay 20% or more extra not to have one fitted. stupid devices.

munchkin_utd

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

<snip>
Why aren't speed limits reduced further or why aren't there limiters put on cars so they can't go over the speed limit? Surely there's all kinds of tech that could stop people from speeding in different zones. <snip>

The EU (who allegedly do nothing good for us if you ask pro-brexit, or just generally cantankerous people who are looking for a scapegoat for all of lifes ills) has a raft of new regulations for all new cars and trucks in the pipeline including introduction of adaptave speed limiters in cars (the limit changes depending on where you are), automated braking systems for pedestrians, preparations to enable all cars to be fitted with an alcohol breath tester locking system, blind spot detection systems for trucks and a whole lot of other stuff.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2019/03/29/eu-beefs-up-requirements-for-car-safety/

The "eCall" system which contacts the emergency services if you have a crash with the exact loction of the accident is already compulsorary for all new cars .

The speed limit thing seems a bit radical but one side benefit will be that you will soon not be able to pick up a speeding ticket !

bear1

Take a look at the Twitter thread from the guards over on the motors forum and you'll see why some of the deaths are occurring.

Lady Haywire

There was a young man killed about 2 miles from here last week. Roughly 5 mins before the crash, I could hear a motorbike racing down the road which is 300m or so from the house. Ten mins after that i heard sirens & just knew it was the same person.
Passed out a car at speed & hit a schoolbus.

Motorbikes aren't all that common in this area (stone age Leitrim :pac:) and it's the second time I've heard a bike doing stupid speeds and the rider has been in a fatal crash afterwards.

ongarite

bear1 wrote: »

Take a look at the Twitter thread from the guards over on the motors forum and you'll see why some of the deaths are occurring.

True, true.
The majority of the drivers that the Gardai now pull over for an offence are testing positive for drugs. Its insane.

If you think how small a percentage of the drivers that are pulled over each day, then there must be thousands of people driving cars/buses/trucks who are high on drugs/drunk.

Not to mention, cars pulled over for being un-roadworthy or disqualified drivers.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic

bear1

ongarite wrote: »

True, true.
The majority of the drivers that the Gardai now pull over for an offence are testing positive for drugs. Its insane.

If you think how small a percentage of the drivers that are pulled over each day, then there must be thousands of people driving cars/buses/trucks who are high on drugs/drunk.

Not to mention, cars pulled over for being un-roadworthy or disqualified drivers.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic

It's crazy.
There's one tweet where some lad was celebrating his birthday and crashed on his way after testing positive.
Complete twat and luckily didn't hurt anyone.
No wonder insurance here is a nightmare.

jimgoose

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Doubt it. The funny thing is you have to have speed restrictors on certain motorbikes when you're starting out but they don't do it with cars.

This is not true. Category A1 and A2 motorcycles have restrictions on power output, power-to-weight ratio and, in the case of A1, an engine displacement limit of 125 cc. There is no speed restriction per se.

jimgoose

Lady Haywire wrote: »

There was a young man killed about 2 miles from here last week. Roughly 5 mins before the crash, I could hear a motorbike racing down the road which is 300m or so from the house. Ten mins after that i heard sirens & just knew it was the same person.
Passed out a car at speed & hit a schoolbus.

Motorbikes aren't all that common in this area (stone age Leitrim :pac:) and it's the second time I've heard a bike doing stupid speeds and the rider has been in a fatal crash afterwards.

The unfortunate truth of the matter is, it's very, very difficult to save a clueless young renegade like that from him or herself.

farmchoice

Irish_peppa wrote: »

is there any insurance company who will give you a discount to have a speed limiter fitted or a tracking device to monitor your driving. If i was getting a decent discount say 20% i would be happy to have it done.

there is a company called boxymo doing it, although they are geared more towards young drivers.
the whole idea has been around for a while and a few companies have tried it but it never really took off until now.
its called telematics and a lot of companies are now seriously looking into it. it is already being rolled out extensively by insurers who deal with haulage companies.


i'm in the motor insurance business and personally id have huge reservations about it. not the technology or anything but what the insurance companies do with it.
it would give the companies access to a lot of information about the driver that they could use against them if it suited them and god knows if there are a disreputable bunch of pricks in this country its insurance companies.

as someone who deals with a hell of a lot of of them every day i can assure you they are capable of almost anything. they are to a large degree run by a mixture of spivs and greedy idiots.

El_Duderino 09

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

...
For such a Nanny State country, why is there no outrage over all of this? ...

I can’t figure out whether you’re calling for more nanny state or you’re opposed to nanny state.

Just for clarity, Which is it?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Road deaths have in fact declined significantly in the last few decades. The roads are better, the campaign against drink driving has worked.

Significantly. In the ‘90s it was a few times a week, every week. The steady decline is staggering when you see the statistics on paper.

jimgoose

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I can’t figure out whether you’re calling for more nanny state or you’re opposed to nanny state.

Just for clarity, Which is it?

Hardly "Nanny State" either - I've been stopped at a checkpoint precisely once in several years, about six months ago a fresh-faced young Garda had a quick butcher's at my windscreen and waved me on. :pac:

BeerWolf

Irish_peppa wrote: »

is there any insurance company who will give you a discount to have a speed limiter fitted or a tracking device to monitor your driving. If i was getting a decent discount say 20% i would be happy to have it done.

You get a discount for installing a dash cam. Reckon plenty of people with that won't record themselves speeding.

Muahahaha

The roads are safer now than at any time in the last 20 years, at one point we had 600 odd deaths a year and now its down to about 150. One area that needs to be tackled is people not wearing their seat belts, incredibly something like 25% of last years fatalities on the roads were because drivers/passengers were not wearing seat belts. Some of them were children. Thats almost 40 people killed last year because they didn't belt up, in this day and age not doing so is just plain stupid IMO. Not ensuring kids are belted up is even worse, its pure recklessness.

farmchoice

Muahahaha wrote: »

The roads are safer now than at any time in the last 20 years, at one point we had 600 odd deaths a year and now its down to about 150. One area that needs to be tackled is people not wearing their seat belts, incredibly something like 25% of last years fatalities on the roads were because drivers/passengers were not wearing seat belts. Some of them were children. Thats almost 40 people killed last year because they didn't belt up, in this day and age not doing so is just plain stupid IMO. Not ensuring kids are belted up is even worse, its pure recklessness.

im in my mid 40's have have been driving since i was 17, to me putting on my seat belt was as automatic as putting the key in the ignition and yet unbelievably i have recently on more then one occasion found myself driving along without my seat belt on, i got quite a shock,i now have to actively check i have it on before i drive off.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

The roads are safer now than at any time in the last 20 years, at one point we had 600 odd deaths a year and now its down to about 150. One area that needs to be tackled is people not wearing their seat belts, incredibly something like 25% of last years fatalities on the roads were because drivers/passengers were not wearing seat belts. Some of them were children. Thats almost 40 people killed last year because they didn't belt up, in this day and age not doing so is just plain stupid IMO. Not ensuring kids are belted up is even worse, its pure recklessness.

but surely the constant beeping from NOT having your seatbelt on would drive you mad? Can you disable that...…….and why would you? Surely its easier to put on your belt than disable the mechanism that beeps?

Most cars have that alarm, cant remember how far that goes back but my 09 car from a few years back (since sold) had that . Beggars belief people still drive without seatbelts :mad::mad:

Thelonious Monk

farmchoice wrote: »

im in my mid 40's have have been driving since i was 17, to me putting on my seat belt was as automatic as putting the key in the ignition and yet unbelievably i have recently on more then one occasion found myself driving along without my seat belt on, i got quite a shock,i now have to actively check i have it on before i drive off.

Same here with seatbelts. Plus cars go nuts nowadays with headwrecking noises if you don't put it on.

Tornaxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Beggars belief people still drive without seatbelts :mad::mad:

But if you drop your phone or a burger while driving, it'easier to pick it up if you don't have your seatbelt on.

farmchoice

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Same here with seatbelts. Plus cars go nuts nowadays with headwrecking noises if you don't put it on.

now that i think about it that might be the problem. in the ''good car'' (wife's car) there is the mental beeper so if i forget i am quickly reminded but in the ''old'' car (my car) there is no buzzer so i seem to have subconsciously abandoned good practice after 20 year to instead rely on technology and then when that technology is not there i am caught out.

RickBlaine

Last week on a motorway, I saw someone with a crossword up against the steering wheel and the driver filling it in. All while doing 100kph.

There will always be complete idiots on the road but what concerns me the most if that using mobile phones to text while driving doesn't seem to concern most drivers. I could almost forgive drivers using them on straight stretches of road but I often see them being used while turning at junctions, on a roundabout, etc. Like drink driving, that attitude needs to change by the general public.

theoneeyedman

jimgoose wrote: »

The unfortunate truth of the matter is, it's very, very difficult to save a clueless young renegade like that from him or herself.

Are we judging inquests here now on boards? Very bad form discussing the specifics of an individual case, and acting as judge and jury on what might have happened. Think of this lads friends and family, who might stumble onto the High moral ground where some posters reside.

RIP to that young lad, and to all who have lost their lives on our roads.

Baggly

Mod

Apart from it being the norm not to discuss any ongoing cases; its crass as flip to discuss recent tragedies like some have in this thread.

Unlike tragedies that happen the other side of the world, its very likely a family member or friend of the deceased will read those insensitive words. Bear this in mind when posting again. Cards and/or bans will follow otherwise.

Lady Haywire

So it's bad form to say someone was driving recklessly before crashing? It's just the truth. I'm fed up of people speeding on roads around here, there's too many bad roads and bends to allow for it yet it continues.

Graces7

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Road fatalities are monitored and taken very seriously in this country. The amount of Gardai money and time spent on traffic is huge. Massive media coverage. New legislation regularly.

Suicide is a bigger killer in Ireland. Far less coverage. No proper monitoring of suicide rates. Poorly funded. No overall plan to reduce suicide. In fact no investigation of why it is so high.

That is a complete non sequitur. And irrelevant to the discussion. Comparing a public offence with a private distress.

Baggly

Lady Haywire wrote: »

So it's bad form to say someone was driving recklessly before crashing? It's just the truth. I'm fed up of people speeding on roads around here, there's too many bad roads and bends to allow for it yet it continues.

Quit it please. Last warning.

Fan of Netflix

Graces7 wrote: »

That is a complete non sequitur. And irrelevant to the discussion. Comparing a public offence with a private distress.

They are two of the biggest killers in this country. Given OP stated there is no outrage and discussion, it is a fair comparison. I'm not sure what your point is.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

but surely the constant beeping from NOT having your seatbelt on would drive you mad? Can you disable that...…….and why would you? Surely its easier to put on your belt than disable the mechanism that beeps?

Most cars have that alarm, cant remember how far that goes back but my 09 car from a few years back (since sold) had that . Beggars belief people still drive without seatbelts :mad::mad:

I have to admit that since the seatbelt sensor stopped working on my car I have found myself making a lot of short journeys without bothering with the seat belt especially ones where I’m popping to two or three places in a short space of time. It’s laziness and probably similar for most.

Thelonious Monk

Keira Brave Flower wrote: »

I have to admit that since the seatbelt sensor stopped working on my car I have found myself making a lot of short journeys without bothering with the seat belt especially ones where I’m popping to two or three places in a short space of time. It’s laziness and probably similar for most.

Its people like you in rural Ireland that seem to be the most prone to accidents, be careful.

Princess Calla

I think so much has been done to raise awareness about road safety. I remember 20 years ago when the seatbelt add was first run with I think Samantha Mumba singing body to body in background how shocked everyone was at the time. Then another add followed with the teenagers kissing on the wall. They were very hard hitting and I think they worked well.

I was the target age group at the time and I remember some of the young bucks stating they changed some of their behaviours.

However still 20 years on people are still not wearing their seatbelt. I've also seen a woman holding her baby in her arms while in the backseat of a car. You can only bring some people so far and then Darwin will take over.

There will always be accidents. However it's in your power as a driver to take necessary precautions. keep your car road worthy, put quality tyres on your wheels they are your only contact to the road. Wear a seatbelt, don't drink or use drugs before driving, put your phone away, watch your speed and drive in a manner suitable to conditions.

After that just hope your not unfortunate enough to meet some selfish pr1ck who thinks they are above all that!

Raconteuse

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So more people killed on our roads this weekend. A young athlete and I read about a boy of 5 or so killed the other day too. All killed by cars.
For such a Nanny State country, why is there no outrage over all of this? It just seems to be accepted that a few people will die in cars every week.
Is it because of a motorist lobby or something?
Why aren't speed limits reduced further or why aren't there limiters put on cars so they can't go over the speed limit? Surely there's all kinds of tech that could stop people from speeding in different zones.
It annoys me that the likes of eScooters and cycling get so much stick in the press over being hazardous but they never actually kill anyone, they just might annoy motorists sometimes, big deal.
Would you like to see more restrictions on cars in order to stop the weekly body count?

How is Ireland a nanny state? It's a soundbite but doesn't really stand up to scrutiny (well restricted hours for off licences but that seems to be more for protection of pubs).

How would people show their outrage? Should there be protests? If so have you set one up?

There are huge campaigns for safer driving - even a dedicated body (which people who love the word "quango" keep whinging about).

But (besides genuine accidents) selfish idiot drivers who think they are infallible? These are the problem, and nobody else can be held responsible for them.

Bigbagofcans

Keira Brave Flower wrote: »

I have to admit that since the seatbelt sensor stopped working on my car I have found myself making a lot of short journeys without bothering with the seat belt especially ones where I’m popping to two or three places in a short space of time. It’s laziness and probably similar for most.

I don't get that. It takes a second to put on your seatbelt. Also, people who are too lazy to indicate. Are they the same ones too lazy to put on their seatbelt?

Ray Palmer

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Do people who accidentally kill people go to jail? What happens their insurance? i assume the payout to the family is in the euro 500,000 plus bracket i hear about people being killed but you never really hear much about the people who killed them in most cases

No they aren't sent to jail. Recently two separate motorists admitted to no looking at the road ahead of them when the knocked down and killed a cyclist each. The man was simply not look but the women was turned around and taking a tag of her child's new toy. No prison time. Completely their fault and dangerous

Baggly

Mod

Thread moved to CA/IMHO. Please be aware of the charter here.

Raconteuse

Keira Brave Flower wrote: »

I have to admit that since the seatbelt sensor stopped working on my car I have found myself making a lot of short journeys without bothering with the seat belt especially ones where I’m popping to two or three places in a short space of time. It’s laziness and probably similar for most.

Probably not though, even if you'd like it to be. And yeah that's an abnormal level of laziness.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Keira Brave Flower wrote: »

I have to admit that since the seatbelt sensor stopped working on my car I have found myself making a lot of short journeys without bothering with the seat belt especially ones where I’m popping to two or three places in a short space of time. It’s laziness and probably similar for most.

On short journeys in the driver’s own stomping grounds (where most short car journeys happen) is where I’d be most careful to wear a seatbelt as it’s on familiar turf that driver complacency can kick in.

And, yes, it’s really lazy.