Personality disorder

Whitestripe

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if there is anyone here who has experience with dating someone with a personality disorder and how you coped with it. I have been with my boyfriend for a few months and have to say that he has been straight forward about his condition. We met through friends who are aware. You can tell fairly quickly that he is a bit different than most people but I don't mind.

I haven't told my family as I am worried they will immediately dislike him but of course they have started to draw conclusions. I don't want to lie to them but I also don't want to make everything more complicated. I live in the UK at the moment so they are more concerned about me as I am not home/ close to them.

Are there any online resources/ forums out there that you can recommend?

Thank you all already

bottlebrush

How does this personality disorder manifest itself? Hard to advise when we don't know the behaviours involved.
There are different personality disorders eg narcissistic personality disorder etc.

How does the disorder affect your relationship?

Whitestripe

I'm sorry for not being very specific, it's just a bit complicated to describe. He has been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder (long before we met) and is functioning well overall I guess. On some level he has been a rock to me because he really helped me with some big problems, but it's so difficult to get emotional closeness. I have seen some nasty carry on (not directed against me and nothing criminal, just mean) and it made me uncomfortable. I know I should run this by someone but I don't want to tell my family.

bottlebrush

Two red flags here: in your first post you say your family have started to draw conclusions and in your second post you say you have seen some nasty carry on which has made you feel uncomfortable.

You are only a few months into the relationship but how long do you think before the nasty carry on might be directed towards you and will you tolerate it?

Has he been medically diagnosed with this disorder and is he receiving therapy.?

Sardonicat

Do you know much about this disorder? Have you researched it at all? If you have and are still happy to be in a relationship with this man is have to ask you why?

I have experience of someone with this disorder. From my experience I would not even consider a casual acqaintance with anyone with this. It's not an illness that can be treated. It's who he is.

You will never get emotional closeness because he is not capable of it. Be very, very cautious, OP.

Whitestripe

Yes he was formally diagnosed and has been to therapy, though he seems rather reluctant.
My family concluded that he is "somewhere on the spectrum" because they can't relate, which makes me uncomfortable when I know that it's not true but it's my own fault for not speaking up.

And yes. I feel uncomfortable about the nasty streak. My parents told me to just walk away and be the bigger person so this is what I am used to. But he doesn't and deliberately uses their weak points to hurt. He doesn't do it with me but has told me in a matter of fact way what my weak points are, which was very odd but somehow useful because I had never thought about it.

Whitestripe

Sardonicat wrote: »

Do you know much about this disorder? Have you researched it at all? If you have and are still happy to be in a relationship with this man is have to ask you why?

I have experience of someone with this disorder. From my experience I would not even consider a casual acqaintance with anyone with this. It's not an illness that can be treated. It's who he is.

You will never get emotional closeness because he is not capable of it. Be very, very cautious, OP.

I have researched it online, but found only articles about people who realised eventually that they were dealing with such a personality type. I am wondering if it will be different given that he isn't keeping it but was open about it if that makes sense?

worded

What was the first impression of him when you met?

What was your gut feeling ?

Your initial instinct ?

Thanks

Sardonicat

Whitestripe wrote: »

I have researched it online, but found only articles about people who realised eventually that they were dealing with such a personality type. I am wondering if it will be different given that he isn't keeping it but was open about it if that makes sense?

But it's not different, is it? You have witnessed him identify and exploit others' weak points. He is with you because for now, you are fulfilling some need of his. That is all. He does not relate to other people in the same way as you. He cannot. He never will be able. You will never have a true "relationship " with him because he is not capable of relating on a human level. To him, people are just a collection of traits that can be manipulated or exploited or avoided. He can fake normal for a while if needs be but that is all it will ever be.

Most people get caught up with someone with ASP by accident and learn the hard way. He has told you and shown you who he is. Why do you want to stay with him.?

Whitestripe

worded wrote: »

What was the first impression of him when you met?

What was your gut feeling ?

Your initial instinct ?

I first thought he was a bit aloof when he joined our group that evening but we were a big enough group. We ended up chatting later on when it was more quiet and I realised he was actually quite funny and considerate. My gut feeling told me that he was mysterious but I can't tell why. He did walk my friend and I to a cab though because it was late, which I thought was nice because the others hadn't offered.

Whitestripe

Sardonicat wrote: »

But it's not different, is it? You have witnessed him identify and exploit others' weak points. He is with you because for now, you are fulfilling some need of his. That is all. He does not relate to other people in the same way as you. He cannot. He never will be able. You will never have a true "relationship " with him because he is not capable of relating on a human level. To him, people are just a collection of traits that can be manipulated or exploited or avoided. He can fake normal for a while if needs be but that is all it will ever be.

Most people get caught up with someone with ASP by accident and learn the hard way. He has told you and shown you who he is. Why do you want to stay with him.?

Well the reason I posted was to see if there were other perspectives out there, because I don't want to make a decision based on one sided comments. I appreciate your response though, because you seem to have experienced what I read by anonymous posters in blogs etc. I don't know. I feel kind of protected but at the same time there is a small knot in my stomach because I don't like to see people treated badly.

worded

Whitestripe wrote: »

I first thought he was a bit aloof when he joined our group that evening but we were a big enough group. We ended up chatting later on when it was more quiet and I realised he was actually quite funny and considerate. My gut feeling told me that he was mysterious but I can't tell why. He did walk my friend and I to a cab though because it was late, which I thought was nice because the others hadn't offered.

Aloof / Mysterious = unusual / misfit ?

He has admitted he has Aspergers? Has a nasty streak? Like someone who treats waiters bad, you will probably be next. An unkind person.

I was in a relationship with an Aspie and I didn’t know as she was foreign and she hid it well.

I’ve read quite a lot about it

They tend not to be loyal to their partner which is a disaster for a relational-ship and a very high percentage of them get divorced as a result.

My advice is run to the hills as it will likely end in tears. Rivers of them.

There are millions of normal people out there OP
Imagine what it would be like as a single parent with this ice berg, it could well be a living nightmare for you and for the kid(s)

While you have no ties, run away, not walk ...

My instincts told me to leg it, but she was different ..... I was intrigued initially. There were some red flags but I was too busy to take notice at the time

Sardonicat

worded wrote: »

Aloof / Mysterious = unusual / misfit ?

He has admitted he has Aspergers? Has a nasty streak? Like someone who treats waiters bad, you will probably be next. An unkind person.

I was in a relationship with an Aspie and I didn’t know as she was foreign and she hid it well.

I’ve read quite a lot about it

They tend not to be loyal to their partner which is a disaster for a relational-ship and a very high percentage of them get divorced as a result.

My advice is run to the hills as it will likely end in tears. Rivers of them.

There are millions of normal people out there OP
Imagine what it would be like as a single parent with this ice berg, it could well be a living nightmare for you and for the kid(s)

While you have no ties, run away, not walk ...

He doesn't have Aspies. He has Anti Social Personality Disorder. It's a completely different thing.

Whitestripe

Yes he doesn't have Aspergers. My family just concluded and I didn't correct them because I didn't want them to freak out. Sorry if I was unclear.
Thank you both, I'll need to think about it and see if maybe i can talk to someone

worded

Whitestripe wrote: »

Yes he doesn't have Aspergers. My family just concluded and I didn't correct them because I didn't want them to freak out. Sorry if I was unclear.
Thank you both, I'll need to think about it and see if maybe i can talk to someone

I googled ASP and got Asperger ...

dooh ..

Apols if I’m projecting my own views too much

No one is perfect, but there are many kind decent people out there, he doesn’t sound like one.

All the best, I don’t normally post in this topic

wiggle16

Whitestripe wrote: »

Yes he was formally diagnosed and has been to therapy, though he seems rather reluctant.
My family concluded that he is "somewhere on the spectrum" because they can't relate, which makes me uncomfortable when I know that it's not true but it's my own fault for not speaking up.

And yes. I feel uncomfortable about the nasty streak. My parents told me to just walk away and be the bigger person so this is what I am used to.

You do need to consider that if your family don't know that he has this personality disorder then that's going to colour any advice you get from them. In the same way, if you're allowing them to think he is "on the spectrum" this will also colour how they see his actions in a very, very different way. They're not getting the full picture of who he is. And they're getting a very different one, by omission.

Can I ask, how old are you, OP? You don't have to answer, obviously.

It's just, you're in a relationship with someone and you see a nasty streak you don't like. He hasn't done anything to you personally (yet) and you're looking for a way to cope with his behaviour. Are you trying to prepare yourself for how to cope if he does turn on you? Or are you prepared to spend your life coping with a man rather than having a relationship with a man? You've only been with him a couple of months.

If you were married or in a LTR with someone who began to show signs of mental illness or alcoholism, for example, and you were looking for coping skills while they were trying to get help, that would be one thing - but this is in the early days of a relationship and you're already looking for coping skills for they way he already treats other people and for the way you undoubtedly anticipate he will eventually treat you too.
Don't try to fix him. It won't work.

I'm not trying to paint him as a monster or anything, but look at the parallel between these two statements:

Sardonicat wrote: »

But it's not different, is it? You have witnessed him identify and exploit others' weak points [...] To him, people are just a collection of traits that can be manipulated or exploited or avoided. He can fake normal for a while if needs be but that is all it will ever be.

He doesn't do it with me but has told me in a matter of fact way what my weak points are, which was very odd but somehow useful because I had never thought about it

The bit about him matter of factly telling you what your weak points are sent a chill down my spine, to be honest. We all eventually learn over time what our partners' flaws are, one way or another, but that's a whole lot different to clinically observing and noting another person's "weak points". There is something very unnerving and reptilian about that concept. It has no place in a healthy or happy relationship.

Your gut is telling you this relationship isn't right for you - don't try to muffle it by trying to work with his issues or ignoring your own anxieties. Listen to your gut, seriously.

BuboBubo

If your best friend/your sister/ your mother was in this type of relationship instead of you, what advice would you give her?

You need to ask yourself this.

redfox123

The fact that you are seeking coping advice with this personality disorder rather than seeking advice on ending it or really considering the sustainability of the relationship at all shows you are already going to do what is needed to stay in it. I don’t even know you and that makes me sad and frankly scared for you.
I promise you, in time, that nasty streak will be directed at you (in a way it already has) and you will be too wrapped up in the relationship and too far gone in trying to cope with his disorder, that you won’t leave. Is that really what you want? He won’t get better. People like this won’t do the intense therapy they need unless court ordered usually.
Of course he hasn’t treated you too badly yet, you’re only with him a few months. He absolutely has to treat you ok in order to get you to stick around and get emotionally involved (he knows how through your ‘weak points’). But if you stay with him, and you in some way annoy him or don’t do something or behave in a way that pleases him, you will be the target of that nastiness and aggression, and people like him have zero empathy to genuinely feel remorse for doing anything or saying anything that hurts you. I’ve had experience, I wouldn’t wish this type of person on anyone.

ILoveYourVibes

Whitestripe wrote: »

He has been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder

Just to be clear . Do you mean this?

Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.From the Mayo Clinic

He has told you that he was diagnosed professionally with antisocial personality disorder (i.e he is a diagnosed sociopath?) Is that what you are saying? Just to be clear so i don't misunderstand you? That is what you are saying?

Well first off I don't think you have the right to tell anyone something so personal about him.

As far as I know it takes a lot to be formally diagnosed as a sociopath. It usually means that person has broken the law more than once.

Everyone should be given a chance op. Take him as he is. Maybe don't date him but don't screw up his life by telling everyone.

So maybe he isn't gonna be the next hannibal lector. But its likely he suffers from depression and a sense of isolation. Anti social personality disorder isn't as fun as its depicted in the movies. They usually really struggle in life.

I am pretty sure i have known three people with this, a girl I went to school with, a guy who used to live behind me and one other guy . They were all very dangerous people. They can't fit in or settle down anywhere. They can't keep a job long and cycle through friends. Surprisingly they are not people i would consider intelligent. I mean they would have serious academic flaws if not actual learning disabilities. And of course coupled with that they have low emotional IQs.

Studies show that people who are diagnosed as sociopaths have a lower than average IQ. ( I know hollywood depicts them as the opposite though). But in real life psychopaths actually have below average IQ.

If you’re diagnosed with ASPD, there is actually more of a chance you’re on the dumber side rather than the brighter side.

Which means these people can be like brick walls trying to talk to.

They also are not always 'charming'. In my experience.


Also anti social personality disorder is not at all related to Aspergers. And no they don't share similar traits and no they don't come off the same in person.

Someone formally diagnosed with Anti Social Personality disorder is a formally diagnosed sociopath/psychopath.

Many people feel that if such a person hasn't been arrested for breaking the law that they simply haven't been caught yet.

You can't go around telling people something so personal about him. Especially something with so much stigma. That's not fair. Don't make life harder for him.

However I wouldn't date him.

I also probably wouldn't leave my dog with him tbh.

OP out of the three people i have known with this disorder one of them killed a man at 15 and is still a criminal and the other was a sex offender.

Whitestripe

wiggle16 wrote: »

<SNIPPED most of quote>
Your gut is telling you this relationship isn't right for you - don't try to muffle it by trying to work with his issues or ignoring your own anxieties. Listen to your gut, seriously.

I couldn't really sleep because opening this thread has really rattled me somehow.


I am a bit reluctant to tell my family because they don't really know anything about mental illness and I think they would immediately think about some horror films or so. I am going home this weekend so I have decided to talk to my sister and have to hope that she keeps it to herself and not tell the rest of my family. They only met him once when they were over for a visit. I live abroad but am just a quick flight away.

I really dread opening that can of worms


I think I am finding it hard to accept that he cannot really feel things I can because I can't stop thinking what a lonely place that must be.It was freaky when he outlined my weak points. It was spot on and I am now watching myself in certain situations when I deal with people because feel exposed somehow. I am 29 by the way.




Youre right, I have a know something isnt right but somehow it makes me feel worse to write it down. I think Sardonicats posts stirred some worry in me.

ILoveYourVibes

Whitestripe wrote: »

I couldn't really sleep because opening this thread has really rattled me somehow.





Youre right, I have a know something isnt right but somehow it makes me feel worse to write it down. .

I think it might help you if you stopped saying he was mentally ill and started saying he is a sociopath.

Because that is what he is formally diagnosed as.

Anti social personality disorder isn't actually classified as a mental illness in the DSM-5.

I am not here to argue whether it should be or not. But just to point out you (the OP) might think about this clearer if you knew that.

Antisocial personality disorder is the closest diagnosis to sociopathy.

However, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) does not use the term "sociopathy" to describe a mental health condition.

Its usually a diagnosis of behavior rather than mental illness.

Op he isn't mentally ill as such. He was given a diagnosis at some point in his life because his behavior was so bad.

It wasn't like he felt so bad and went to a therapist. His behavior was so bad he was made to. It means what you have seen so far is the tip of the iceberg. They can't give a label like that without extreme bad behavior. I mean its not like he went to a therapist and said i feel nothing for others. That would NOT qualify you as a sociopath. They are diagnosed on what they have done to others. They have to show a pattern of behavior. And its a rather generous yard stick as they don't want to label kids who go off the rails etc as 'sociopaths' for the rest of their lives.

Is there anyway you can find out if he has a criminal record?


Yes I would say its a miserable life. I would say he feels like a failure because of it all. That is probably why he points out flaws in others.

Its not a mental illness though. Its him being a bad person.

Whitestripe

redfox123 wrote: »

The fact that you are seeking coping advice with this personality disorder rather than seeking advice on ending it or really considering the sustainability of the relationship at all shows you are already going to do what is needed to stay in it. I don’t even know you and that makes me sad and frankly scared for you.
I promise you, in time, that nasty streak will be directed at you (in a way it already has) and you will be too wrapped up in the relationship and too far gone in trying to cope with his disorder, that you won’t leave. Is that really what you want? He won’t get better. People like this won’t do the intense therapy they need unless court ordered usually.
Of course he hasn’t treated you too badly yet, you’re only with him a few months. He absolutely has to treat you ok in order to get you to stick around and get emotionally involved (he knows how through your ‘weak points’). But if you stay with him, and you in some way annoy him or don’t do something or behave in a way that pleases him, you will be the target of that nastiness and aggression, and people like him have zero empathy to genuinely feel remorse for doing anything or saying anything that hurts you. I’ve had experience, I wouldn’t wish this type of person on anyone.

Hi redfox, could you explain what you mean by the nasty streak already being directed at me? I haven't noticed it, but the way he treats others is very obvious to me. Thank you..

ILoveYourVibes

Whitestripe wrote: »

Hi redfox, could you explain what you mean by the nasty streak already being directed at me? I haven't noticed it, but the way he treats others is very obvious to me. Thank you..

I would say this.

It was freaky when he outlined my weak points. It was spot on and I am now watching myself in certain situations when I deal with people because feel exposed somehow.

He undermined you subtly.

Wanderer78

Jebus, the world really does need to be educated in relatively common disorders, being an asbie myself, we do feel folks, and quiet intensely at times, possibly more so than your average neurotypical, we do want relationships, we do want to connect with others, life can be depressingly lonely otherwise, people with complex disorders deserve a chance to experience these fundamental human needs, but hesitation is understandable.

op educate yourself as best as you can regarding this disorder, but do not make allowances for bad behaviour, you deserve happiness and respect just as much as any other human, best of luck

Whitestripe

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Just to be clear . Do you mean this?


He has told you that he was diagnosed professionally with antisocial personality disorder (i.e he is a diagnosed sociopath?) Is that what you are saying? Just to be clear so i don't misunderstand you? That is what you are saying?

Hi Iloveyourvibes,


thank you for your reply. I am not telling people about his condition but most people who have known him for a while seem to realise it anyway. This thread is actually making me realise that I do need to talk to someone and not keep this to myself because I am feeling like Im alone in this.


He is definitely not stupid and very good at his job which is why I think he gets away with a lot, I think it's because they need him.


Yes he has a history of course, but I met his mom who explained that he was much better than he used to be. I don't really feel like I should judge him for things he has done in the past because I did not know him then but just focus on the presence. I haven't seen any pysical violence and agression shows in a different way. Sometimes I understand the anger, but not the means by which he acts on it

Whitestripe

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Jebus, the world really does need to be educated in relatively common disorders, being an asbie myself, we do feel folks, and quiet intensely at times, possibly more so than your average neurotypical, we do want relationships, we do want to connect with others, life can be depressingly lonely otherwise, people with complex disorders deserve a chance to experience these fundamental human needs, but hesitation is understandable.

op educate yourself as best as you can regarding this disorder, but do not make allowances for bad behaviour, you deserve happiness and respect just as much as any other human, best of luck

Hi Wanderer,


I am very sorry for the misunderstanding. I never liked the 2 conditions with each other, I just didn't comment on it when my mother and sister made a wrong assumption. I really didnt mean to cause offense and I hope you are doing alright

ILoveYourVibes

Whitestripe could you book a session with a psychologist or a psychiatrist and ask them to tell you what the diagnosis really means?

I feel that would help you much more than anyone here (inc myself) or friends etc.

LegacyUser

You know what it sounds like op? You're fighting against your intuition.

For some reason our intuition goes into overdrive when we meet people like this. I mean it's difficult to give advice when the guy hasn't technically done anything bad to you but there are obviously subconscious things that you've picked up and are making you feel uncomfortable.

He's admitted he's a psychopath. If I was you I wouldn't stay with him.

Wanderer78

Whitestripe wrote:

I am very sorry for the misunderstanding. I never liked the 2 conditions with each other, I just didn't comment on it when my mother and sister made a wrong assumption. I really didnt mean to cause offense and I hope you are doing alright

No hard feelings at all, I was more concerned about other people's comments about disorders to be honest, disorders are complex, including my own, but I suspect disorders of all varieties are far more common than we realise. there's an enormous amount of research on them now, and it still continues, I do think we should all be educated, even to a basic level, on all of them. People with complex disorders are shunned, outcast, because we do not fit the norm, and society doesn't like the outsider, we re not accepted. People with disorders deserve a chance in life, but as I said earlier, respect truly is key here, do not accept bad behaviour.

Thank you, I'm all good, but life can be difficult with a complex disorder

B0jangles

Honestly OP, I'd be very worried if you were my relative (I'm pretty worried right now and I'm just an internet stranger) - you don't get diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder for trivialities.

I'd second the advice to talk to a medical professional about what this diagnosis means - I'm no expert obviously, but everything I have read about this personality disorder has told me that it's very very hard to treat, even if the person is fully willing to engage with treatment.

The only successful method I heard of was essentially to try to teach them not to hurt others because doing so would get them (the patient) into trouble - any effort to teach them not to hurt others because hurting others was just wrong were wasted because concern for the welfare of other people was absent.

He's treating you well at the moment but he's already shown you he's analysed you for potential weaknesses. You've already seen him treating other people badly. How do you think he'll handle a minor disagreement or a row or a bad breakup?

His behaviour might be better than it used to be, but that might just mean he's just gotten better at masking who he really is.

I feel bad writing this because it seem so cruel to advocate for leaving someone for something they cannot help, but this isn't a mental illness or a passing phase - this is fundamental to who he is and how he views the world.

Ursus Horribilis

You sound like you’re viewing this as some sort of project. That this guy sounds like someone you’d like to fix.

Honestly, I think you should walk away from this before you get sucked in any further. Before you lose what’s left of a healthy perspective. Posters aren’t telling you to walk just for the fun of it. I wonder is your gut screaming at you too, only you’re unwilling to listen.

Whitestripe

Hi, just a quick note. I am definitely taking your perspectives on board and want to thank you all for your help. I am feeling quite shaken but maybe it’s because the feedback is so unanimous and I know i need to do something. Im not sure how Ill deal with this but will start by talking to someone today and will make an appointment with a healthcare worker. Feeling Sick to my stomach and stupid

Wanderer78

Whitestripe wrote: »

Hi, just a quick note. I am definitely taking your perspectives on board and want to thank you all for your help. I am feeling quite shaken but maybe it’s because the feedback is so unanimous and I know i need to do something. Im not sure how Ill deal with this but will start by talking to someone today and will make an appointment with a healthcare worker. Feeling Sick to my stomach and stupid

dont feel stupid, because you re not, the appointment is a great start, most dont truly understand these disorders, including myself

B0jangles

Op you are not stupid, never feel like you're stupid - you've just done what most of us unconsciously do, which is assume that other people are basically driven by approximately the same feelings and motivations as ourselves.

A minority of people just aren't like that though, and some of them are really really good at mimicking how other people behave in order to manipulate. I don't know your boyfriend, so I'm not saying he's definitely doing this to you, but I think it's pretty common in a person with the diagnosis you say he has.

looksee

OP, I agree with most of what has been written here. Don't run, carefully and gently extricate yourself from the relationship without any accusations or trying to explain yourself. Just let it fade away. Don't give him any excuse to start attributing blame or finding a need to be angry with you. But do get out.

wiggle16

Whitestripe wrote: »

I am feeling quite shaken [...] and will make an appointment with a healthcare worker. Feeling Sick to my stomach and stupid

You're not stupid, and please don't take this thread as scaremongering. None of us know what he's like as a person, and obviously he has qualities you like and are attracted to. But he has also exhibited a nasty streak that makes you uncomfortable.

The main point would seem to be that you have a knot in your stomach about this relationship, your gut is telling you something isn't for you and you need to listen to it.

I don't think you need to speak to a healthcare worker, they're not going to tell you whether or not to stay in a relationship with him or give you useful information about him as a partner, really. It doesn't have so much to with his disorder in a way - you shouldn't need to have coping skills to be in a relationship with someone or make yourself see past a nasty streak in a person. That's what it comes down to. I think that fact that his behaviour is explained as a disorder is muddying things a lot.

Paddy Cow

Wanderer78 wrote: »

No hard feelings at all, I was more concerned about other people's comments about disorders to be honest, disorders are complex, including my own, but I suspect disorders of all varieties are far more common than we realise. there's an enormous amount of research on them now, and it still continues, I do think we should all be educated, even to a basic level, on all of them. People with complex disorders are shunned, outcast, because we do not fit the norm, and society doesn't like the outsider, we re not accepted. People with disorders deserve a chance in life, but as I said earlier, respect truly is key here, do not accept bad behaviour.

Thank you, I'm all good, but life can be difficult with a complex disorder

There is a huge difference between being on the spectrum and being a sociopath. Sociopaths lack empathy and that allows them to treat people like commodities and they can be incredibly dangerous.

Op I personally would not date a sociopath. You cannot change someone's innate personality, no matter how much therapy they attend and if he has a mean, nasty streak which he is keeping under wraps now, it will eventually be directed at you. You're on a hiding to nothing by pursuing this relationship.

Calypso Realm

wiggle16 wrote: »

I don't think you need to speak to a healthcare worker, they're not going to tell you whether or not to stay in a relationship with him or give you useful information about him as a partner, really. It doesn't have so much to with his disorder in a way - you shouldn't need to have coping skills to be in a relationship with someone or make yourself see past a nasty streak in a person. That's what it comes down to. I think that fact that his behaviour is explained as a disorder is muddying things a lot.

Absolutely. In fact this is more or less what I was going to say.

The fact he's been diagnosed with a disorder, which in reality only serves as a clinical 'label' to categorise a certain set of behaviours, is completely irrelevant OP. It is purely academic, that's the extent of it.

What you should solely be paying attention to are the character traits he's exhibiting, because that's what they are, regardless of anything else. In essence it really doesn't matter why he has these. He is who he is. End of.

I also echo those who advise you not to get involved here.

Whitestripe

I made an appointment with a councellor to discuss my situation because I dont think I can deal with this on my own. Terrified of him finding out because he usually picks up on things but at least Ill be away at the weekend so it might make it easier. He will be over later as he will be driving me to the airport tomorrow so I'll delete my search history just to be on the safe side. Now I feel deceitful but I dont want any extra stress now
Thank you all again

Paddy Cow

Whitestripe wrote: »

I made an appointment with a councellor to discuss my situation because I dont think I can deal with this on my own. Terrified of him finding out because he usually picks up on things but at least Ill be away at the weekend so it might make it easier. He will be over later as he will be driving me to the airport tomorrow so I'll delete my search history just to be on the safe side. Now I feel deceitful but I dont want any extra stress now
Thank you all again

Please read back what you wrote. You're afraid of him finding out you are going to see a counsellor. That's something you should be able to discuss openly with him. He picks up on things because while sociopaths lack empathy, they are very good at reading people. It's what makes them so manipulative and dangerous. They can figure out very quickly what makes people tick and have no problem playing people.

You might want to discuss with your counsellor why you are with him. I don't know you so I mean no disrespect when I say this and I could be completely wrong here but some people have a lot of empathy and think they can "fix" someone is they just understand/love them enough. By the time they figure out that they can't, they've wasted years and can end up with mental health problems of their own.

Even your family picked up very quickly and with little interaction with your boyfriend that something is off. People on the spectrum are not dangerous but sociopaths are. You should be looking out for yourself first and foremost.

Ursus Horribilis

This post alone should be ringing alarm bells. You previously used the word "shaken" and now you've moved onto "terrified". You should be proud to show your boyfriend off to your family and friends, not trying to hide aspects of his personality from them. Now you're going behind his back so to speak. To see a counsellor. While I think you are doing the right thing by talking to somebody impartial, what would you tell your friends if they found themselves in a situation like this?

Whitestripe

I just don't want to drop this bomb now and then leave for a few days, i just want to make sure i know how i approach. As stated earlier i am shaken and going over little things, and i'mmjust not able to have that discussion with him now. One person here suggested to walk and not to run and i want to do this properly. He's not stupid and will know what this means


Yes, I believe that I am a caring person and i dont like to see people hurt, but i am not sure if this has anything to do with him, maybe i can find this out with some help.

ILoveYourVibes

Whitestripe wrote: »

Hi, just a quick note. I am definitely taking your perspectives on board and want to thank you all for your help. I am feeling quite shaken but maybe it’s because the feedback is so unanimous and I know i need to do something. Im not sure how Ill deal with this but will start by talking to someone today and will make an appointment with a healthcare worker. Feeling Sick to my stomach and stupid

You are not stupid at all. I mean you are going to ask a pro etc and are talking about it with people.

Most people don't do that they forget about it.

I would say you are pretty smart OP.

WIZWEB

Hi OP,

He's been diagnosed with a Cluster B type personality disorder. As you've been informed personality is a core part of us. It defines us. Yes antisocial personality disorder like all of them exist on a spectrum. However if he's been refered for treatment he will be most likely high on this spectrum. Manipulating others without conscience is a common trait. He will most likely be very Narcissistic too. Unfortunately a counsellor is highly unlikely to be experienced with personality disorders unlike a psychotherapist or psychiatrist.

People diagnosed with this condition operate on a selfish reward system basis. Their minds always attempt to self soothe. There's a sense of entitlement too where morality and empathy are disregarded though sometimes faked to achieve perceived needs. Their egos rule. The prison system is full of them as aggression is another key trait. Whatever your enmeshment his needs will always come before yours. His is one of the most difficult personality disorders to treat. As long as you service his needs and are compliant in an enabling fashion you serve use to him. In essence you're painted white now. They always exploit and if charm and deceit works its part of their toolkit to use others to benefit them. Therapists themselves find it difficult to work with such types. Years of therapy is often needed to make minor changes. There's no magic pill to change our personality. Get on his bad side for whatever reason he decides and you'll be painted black. Then you'll see the real him projected instead of the facade he's currently offering. You'll certainly experience cognitive dissonance and might end up with a trauma bond too. It's also likely to experience violence at some stage from this particular Cluster B personality disorder. It's often common to be comorbid with others. He and those with his condition see the world very different to us. Everyone that crosses their path are fair game to be exploited and punished if you don't conform. My advice would be to gently extradite yourself.

Grab All Association

As advised earlier, try seek advice from a healthcare professional. Number of people on here are mixing up sociopaths with psychopaths.

ILoveYourVibes

OP I will give you the flawed understanding i have.

The worst person I ever knew I went to school with...as i mentioned she killed a guy at 15. She had all the traits of a sociopath and I a pretty sure she got diagnosed as such she is still a terrible person to this day.

She didn't lack empathy ...she lacked respect ...and any fear of consequences. That was what made her different from how i understood her.

She didn't respect people. I think that's actually the key.

I honestly think if she could have learnt respect for property rules people animals and particularly herself etc as a kid her life would have been different.

Heres Johnny

OP just to give my experience and to describe to you the extent of problems this can cause being in a relationship with someone like this. Sorry for long post but I rarely talk to anyone about this and it might even help me as well as you. I am glad you are taking advice on board too which I didn't for a very long time. I think the advice you got here is solid based on my own experiences and what I know now. But if only I'd known then what I know now.....

I did a lot of reading about this disorder when going out with a girl a few years ago, got a feeling something was off with her and started researching. From my reading I made the connection in my head that she was narcissistic and had ASP. Not a formal diagnosis as I'm not a professional but I was pretty certain. My mother was warning me off her, so were some friends but I wouldn't listen to anyone because I loved her, she was gorgeous and gave me lots of things I wanted in life. However, her sister, who I knew longer than her, confirmed it to me one night she met me out with a good few drinks in her. But I still didn't pay any heed. I would have been typical man with my thoughts on this girl beforehand I. E she's crazy or just a bit of a bitch but the more I delved into it the more I realised there was more to it and it was scarier than I imagined and the scariest part is they can never change who they really are. They can wear a mask when it suits them though.

She too found my weak points very quickly (I am very caring and willing to go out of my way to help people I care about, sometimes to my own detriment) and she exploited this to the full. But only after I was invested in the relationship, she was great at the start, very charming and I thought I was in a great relationship. Anyway, after about a year and on the verge of a breakdown myself I decided to get out. I was exhausted. A fit, strong rugby player in early 30s reduced to a shell of a man through the emotional manipulation I had endured. She took it quite well, or so I thought, which I was surprised about. She asked me if it was OK if she ever needed help again could she ask me, I said yeah sure we will see.

About a month later she asked me to accompany her to a viewing of a rental property to check it out for her and I agreed. I knew her lease was coming to an end and was thinking about moving so I didn't think it was odd and to be honest I was delighted she was moving to a new town. Here's an example of me going out of my way for people to my detriment like I mentioned earlier. On the way back she tried to rekindle things by talking about old times etc but I was stronger now and was having none of it, which was unlike me before. I knew she was using me again and I think she recognised I was not fooled anymore. This is when things got crazy... She went completely silent and sped up the car only to then steer directly into the motorway barrier at high speed. Don't know how we weren't both killed but we somehow emerged unhurt, still baffles me to this day. That was about 4 years ago. Didn't hear from her then after that apart from having to corroborate her story that it was an accident.
She got into another relationship soon and was pregnant after according to my mother but I didn't ask anymore because I just didn't care. Never gave her a second thought except for telling my now fiance the whole story one night when we were chatting about past relationships.

Last year I got engaged and a few days later I got a funny feeling I saw her drive past my house but dismissed it as my mind playing tricks, still not sure if it was her or not. Then a Facebook message came in (we weren't friends on it but I didn't have her blocked either) saying hi which I didn't respond to.
Then another a while later which I stupidly replied. She congratulated me on engagement etc and we chatted for a few minutes but I said goodnight quite quickly and left it at that. Soon after, I was bombarded with messages only for her surname now being changed to my surname (which frightened the life out of me) asking if I liked her new name and saying I was her one true love and I was always there to help her when she was in trouble so I said no way am I responding and blocked her from everything. Or everything online at least, can't block people in real life without a restraining order!

My fiance started telling me about a girl she met that started to get the same train to work as her and she knows me from school. She gave me her name which I didn't recognise but just brushed it off. Wouldn't be unusual as I still live where I grew up and so do many others. Big school so wouldn't remember everyone anyway. Only comment was that she still looks very young (I am 35 and so would a girl I knew from school if she was in same year and this girl is 6 years younger than me). They met on train a good few times and chatted whole way in. They got on great and talked about mutual interests like fashion. Fiance thought it was weird that she always said tell Johnny I was asking for him when I couldn't place her but she was too polite to say I didn't know who she was.
I got a horrible feeling it was herself placing herself back into my life somehow but in the one way I couldn't control. But she lived in a different town now and although she always worked in city centre she shouldn't be on this train line so I thought maybe not. Let it go for a while but fiance told me she's starting to get a bad vibe about her new train friend mentioning me all the time, asking about wedding plans and whether we will have kids etc when they weren't really close enough, just chatting on a train to pass the time.
Bad feelings came back to me big time now. I had no pictures of her and unusually she has no pictures of herself anywhere on social media to show fiance and ask if it was her. But I still wanted to ignore the fact my gut was right so said nothing.
She also said she was a brunette and my ex was blonde although I'm a typical man and wouldn't have a clue if a blonde was a natural blonde or not!
So, I went up to train station car park instead of going straight to work as I suspected if she was on this train, she was driving to get it rest of way into Dublin. Lo and behold, she arrived, parked up the car and got the train. Could have moved back to our town I thought and its still innocent and what's the harm in chatting, even though I'd prefer they didn't of course. So I went back in the evening until she got the train home and get in her car. I followed her to see where she went and to my horror it was to the town I thought she lived in, and very close to train station in that town too, which is closer to Dublin and on the other train line. 100% she should have been getting that train and not the one she was on with my fiance. She would have at least 30 min drive in morning traffic, same in the evening plus parking fees to do what she was doing. But she was doing it and had been every day since shortly after we got engaged.

So yeah, I think she was checking out fiancé's schedule and decided to befriend her in a weird twisted way to get at me, or get to me I suppose.

I described her and fiance said that's definitely her so I told fiance that night I knew who she is now and her name isn't what she told her but it's actually the sociopathic ex girlfriend that I suspect tried to kill me on the motorway one day.

I had no option but to confront her and got out of the car next morning at train station when she arrived and told her I knew her game and to cop on to herself and not to be on this train any more or talk to my fiance ever again. There were tears (which were fake tears) and she got back in car and drove off to who knows where. Haven't heard from her since and fiance hasn't seen her but I just hope it's the very end of it.
It turns out she does have a kid, got pregnant very soon after we broke up but the guy didn't stick around even for the birth. So hopefully with a kid to mind she will be occupied and leave us alone, I don't have to tell anyone that having an ex, especially one with a disorder, stalking not only me in the shadows but stalking my fiance in plain sight is not something either of us want. Fiancé was brilliant about it in fairness to her, appreciates I dealt with it swiftly when I realised although I haven't admitted I had the inklings previously and never acted.

Whitestripe

Heres Johnny wrote: »

OP just to give my experience and to describe to you the extent of problems this can cause being in a relationship with someone like this. Sorry for long post but I rarely talk to anyone about this and it might even help me as well as you. I am glad you are taking advice on board too which I didn't for a very long time. I think the advice you got here is solid based on my own experiences and what I know now. But if only I'd known then what I know now.....

I don't know what to say really. I'm so sorry that you had to go through this, i cant even imagine how terrifying this was/ still is. It really shocked me to read this. I logged on to give an update but after reading your account I feel I need to respond directly. There are some parallels to my own situation. As I said he hasn't done anything to me and has been good to me, but the parallels are too obvious to overlook. I also feel so sorry for that child and how it will turn out.



He absolutely hates his father, and vice versa, and the two are continously trying to make each other as miserable as possible. It's crazy because they actually try to destroy the other person and I have never seen anything like it. It goes from slander to forged documents, email hacking and humiliation amd apparently violent physical fights in the past. The rest of the family are passive and just try to live a normal life but these two are adamant to destroy each other. I asked my bf if this would ever end and he simply said it would when his father dies, preferrably by his own choice as he'd have won then. My own family is obviously quite different and I couldn't think of anything worse to say about any of them! I know what he is capable of if he really hates someone, and it simply isnt normal. This seems to be the main "enemy" though and other unliked people are usually just put down.


There are people he generally treats well, and some who have known him for a while and swear he is good to have on your side, but that you wouldn't want to be on his bad side. This is something that was echoed by several people on this thread as well....


Unfortunately I have to have a talk with my family today as my sister decided she wasn't very comfortable keeping the things I told her in confidence because some of them shocked her. To be quite honest none of the things I told her were nowhere near your own experience. I really hope you will be ok now and that this nightmare is over for you. I am not sure what I am going to do now but I know I need to do something.

bottlebrush

OP why on earth would you consider taking on a life with somebody like this. You will spend your days making sure to keep on his side. That stuff with his father? Pure vindictiveness. And that's how he will be with you if you go against him on anything. Doesn't matter if you are his girlfriend or wife, he will still do it to you. Leopards don't change their spots - for anyone.
You need to step back gradually from this - there are plenty of guys out there who don't have personality disorders and are easy to get along with. Just get out and start meeting them. He is not the only available man in the world. Youd be better off on your own than with him.

You need to work on your self esteem and focus on what's right for you and not how you can fix somebody else who is unfixable.

You say that he is nice and considerate and caring and do on. That's how people should be. It doesn't absolve the nasty behaviour though because ultimately its the nasty stuff that will break you.

Whitestripe

bottlebrush wrote: »

OP why on earth would you consider taking on a life with somebody like this. You will spend your days making sure to keep on his side. That stuff with his father? Pure vindictiveness. And that's how he will be with you if you go against him on anything. Doesn't matter if you are his girlfriend or wife, he will still do it to you. Leopards don't change their spots - for anyone.
You need to step back gradually from this - there are plenty of guys out there who don't have personality disorders and are easy to get along with. Just get out and start meeting them. He is not the only available man in the world. Youd be better off on your own than with him.

You need to work on your self esteem and focus on what's right for you and not how you can fix somebody else who is unfixable.

You say that he is nice and considerate and caring and do on. That's how people should be. It doesn't absolve the nasty behaviour though because ultimately its the nasty stuff that will break you.

Hi. This is why I made the appointment. I consider myself a good person overall and (like Here's Johnny) I would go out of my way for others to help them.The father situation...I feel sorry about that really. I will work with the councillor and see how I can best deal with this without getting in the line of fire. I want to remain a good person and I don't want to get dragged into a life like this.

Ursus Horribilis

Have you ever heard of the "Boiling Frog Theory"? The description from Wikipedia explains it very nicely

The boiling frog is a fable describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to or be aware of sinister threats that arise gradually rather than suddenly.

I get the impression that you're so invested in this relationship and so confused, you've lost the ability to see things objectively. It doesn't really matter if he has been good to you so far. That's the one strand you keep clinging onto here. In one of your earliest posts here, you said that "it's so difficult to get emotional closeness". If you're not getting that now, why do you think that'll change? He is what he is and you're failing to heed the warning signs .

In general, families don't like to get involved in the private lives of their loved ones unless they're worried about them. Unless your sister is an interfering busybody, she will have spoken to the rest of the family because she is genuinely concerned for you. That in itself should be ringing alarm bells.

What exactly are you hoping the counsellor will do for you regarding this relationship? Are you hoping they can tell you that it's OK to continue in it? Or have you decided to leave and you're sh*t scared of the consequences? You are coming across as somebody who is scared and out of her depth. If that is the case, why would you even consider staying with this guy?

It is utter madness to even consider trying to work out how to "handle" someone like your boyfriend. This, I fear, is what you want to do.