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Trading advice

  • 01-09-2019 10:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭ E46Dream


    Hey guys, can anyone reccomend me any books or places to start learning stocks and trading? Complete newbie here to all of it but would like to take my time and learn what it's all about.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭ mono627


    E46Dream wrote: »
    Hey guys, can anyone reccomend me any books or places to start learning stocks and trading? Complete newbie here to all of it but would like to take my time and learn what it's all about.

    Start with a few books that are considered the basics.

    Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
    Any of the Market Wizard books.
    Trading in the Zone.

    If you're looking to invest rather than trade (longer term time horizon). Read the intelligent investor.

    Get a broad overview of the markets and work from there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭ E46Dream


    mono627 wrote: »
    Start with a few books that are considered the basics.

    Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
    Any of the Market Wizard books.
    Trading in the Zone.

    If you're looking to invest rather than trade (longer term time horizon). Read the intelligent investor.

    Get a broad overview of the markets and work from there.

    Thanks for the recommendations, they're quite old books? I presume they have some essential knowledge within them about stocks and trading.

    I will be looking to trade more so than investing long term but I don't mind doing either and being patient.

    Is it possible for beginners to make profit or does it take a long long time to understand and learn how to be profitable? Also is it worthwhile?

    Also do you guys that trade enjoy trading or are you doing it simply to make a living?


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ Mach 3


    E46Dream wrote: »
    mono627 wrote: »
    Start with a few books that are considered the basics.

    Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.
    Any of the Market Wizard books.
    Trading in the Zone.

    If you're looking to invest rather than trade (longer term time horizon). Read the intelligent investor.

    Get a broad overview of the markets and work from there.

    Thanks for the recommendations, they're quite old books? I presume they have some essential knowledge within them about stocks and trading.

    I will be looking to trade more so than investing long term but I don't mind doing either and being patient.

    Is it possible for beginners to make profit or does it take a long long time to understand and learn how to be profitable? Also is it worthwhile?

    Also do you guys that trade enjoy trading or are you doing it simply to make a living?

    Quick answers in order:

    - Yes
    - Speed of thought. Comes with experience and knowledge.
    - It is not usual for beginners to take a loss ( see above). Yes.
    - Yes and Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭ mono627


    E46Dream wrote: »
    Thanks for the recommendations, they're quite old books? I presume they have some essential knowledge within them about stocks and trading.

    I will be looking to trade more so than investing long term but I don't mind doing either and being patient.

    Is it possible for beginners to make profit or does it take a long long time to understand and learn how to be profitable? Also is it worthwhile?

    Also do you guys that trade enjoy trading or are you doing it simply to make a living?

    Yes they’re old books. They’re by far the best books to read about trading though, especially for someone looking to learn about the industry. I’ve been trading professionally for nearly ten years and it’s rare that I re-read them and not learn something new.

    Yes it takes quite a while to learn. I think the learning curve probably has never been as steep. I think the markets tend to greater efficiency as time goes on.

    Whether it’s worthwhile or not depends on the person. Your earning potential is pretty much unlimited. You’ll get out of it what you put in. I don’t think you should attempt to be a trader unless you have a strong passion for the markets. It’s the love of the game that drags you through the tough times of which there will almost certainly be some.

    I love trading but in saying that, at least once a year I question why the fcuk I’m doing it. You’ll always feel the losses way more than you feel the upside. I’ve always managed to soldier on through the tough times when volatility is low but I’ve seen the toll it takes on some people and it’s not a nice sight to see.

    It’s not a job for everyone and it definitely suits those with a certain type of temperament.


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭ E46Dream


    mono627 wrote: »
    Yes they’re old books. They’re by far the best books to read about trading though, especially for someone looking to learn about the industry. I’ve been trading professionally for nearly ten years and it’s rare that I re-read them and not learn something new.

    Yes it takes quite a while to learn. I think the learning curve probably has never been as steep. I think the markets tend to greater efficiency as time goes on.

    Whether it’s worthwhile or not depends on the person. Your earning potential is pretty much unlimited. You’ll get out of it what you put in. I don’t think you should attempt to be a trader unless you have a strong passion for the markets. It’s the love of the game that drags you through the tough times of which there will almost certainly be some.

    I love trading but in saying that, at least once a year I question why the fcuk I’m doing it. You’ll always feel the losses way more than you feel the upside. I’ve always managed to soldier on through the tough times when volatility is low but I’ve seen the toll it takes on some people and it’s not a nice sight to see.

    It’s not a job for everyone and it definitely suits those with a certain type of temperament.

    Professional Trader? As in trading stocks is your full time job? As for the books I've looked up some reviews and they've said exactly what you said about learning something new every time you re read them.

    Would trading stocks be suited to someone who has a full time job or does it require for you to be very active on it?

    Also is it possible to trade on something without using real money, like a simulator to simulate how it works before I would take the plunge into it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭ mono627


    E46Dream wrote: »
    Professional Trader? As in trading stocks is your full time job? As for the books I've looked up some reviews and they've said exactly what you said about learning something new every time you re read them.

    Would trading stocks be suited to someone who has a full time job or does it require for you to be very active on it?

    Also is it possible to trade on something without using real money, like a simulator to simulate how it works before I would take the plunge into it?

    I don’t trade individual stocks but yes trading is my full time job, for my sins.

    I don’t think anyone should attempt to trade part time. I just don’t think the odds are with you over the long term. I’ve worked with plenty of people who’ve spent 12-14 hours a day working as a trader and still couldn’t make a career out of it. Such is the level of difficulty. The success rate is very, very low.

    In general you shouldn’t be very “active” as a trader. The best opportunities don’t present themselves that often. Having patience is a massive part of what we do.

    Don’t ever risk your own capital unnecessarily, it’s the antithesis of what real trading is about. You need to have a long track record of making money on a simulator before you even think about risking your own capital. The longer the better. Market conditions change regularly and you need to see how people perform under different market conditions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ Mach 3


    Trading is not the cube. There is is no simplified situation. In many ways it is the other way around. An old analogy - place a forty metre rope on the ground and practice walking across it until you can master it. Now place the same rope 40 metres in the air with no safety net and see how you get on with the umbrella.


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ Mach 3


    By the way we all think the same. Just not always at the same time. ;)


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    E46Dream wrote: »
    Is it possible for beginners to make profit or does it take a long long time to understand and learn how to be profitable? Also is it worthwhile?

    No in thirty years working in the industry I don't know a single trader that actually ended up wealthy. I knew one once that did give up the day job, but over the next five years he lost it all and was back to square one.

    A simple exercise for you, go dig up the accounts of a few major banks (not Irish) and examine their trading record, especially where they trade on their own account. The good ones finish just about even.

    The only ones making a profitable and consistent income out of trading are the picks and shovel sellers - software, info, trading accounts etc... If trading was such a great move, they'd just do it....


  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭ mono627


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    No in thirty years working in the industry I don't know a single trader that actually ended up wealthy. I knew one once that did give up the day job, but over the next five years he lost it all and was back to square one.

    A simple exercise for you, go dig up the accounts of a few major banks (not Irish) and examine their trading record, especially where they trade on their own account. The good ones finish just about even.

    The only ones making a profitable and consistent income out of trading are the picks and shovel sellers - software, info, trading accounts etc... If trading was such a great move, they'd just do it....

    To say it can't be done is wrong.

    To say that the odds are so heavily stacked against you that you’re not likely succeed is correct.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ JMMCapital


    I’d stick to value investing for the time being, as mentioned I’ve read most of the books mentioned above there great and more relevant than ever today so don’t mind the dates. One thing I would add, don’t let your emotions get in the way and patience pays off big time in this game. I read that Charlie munger has been getting the Barron
    Report every week for the last 50 years each week they give 10 stock recommendations, over that 50 years he only picked one stock out of 2500 suggested he invested 10 million in the company which multipled in value to 80 million in 3 years, just goes to show patience is key. It’s like baseball your just waiting for the right pitch as Buffett would say. I wouldn’t follow the hype by CNBC/Bloomberg or any other media outlet your own independent research is key.

    Few books l would add:
    One Up On Wall Street - Peter Lynch
    The Little book on Common Sense - John Bogle
    The Dhandho Investor - Mohnish Pabrai
    The Education of a Value Investor - Guy Spier


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