Fire in Douglas - See Mod note in post #506

JackieChang

I see the title says "see mod post #506".

How the f@#£k do I find that? I'm on mobile. Is there a search feature where I can enter the post number?

Flesh Gorden

TheDriver wrote: »

What fire engine is ever going to drive in there? I have that vision of Steve mcQueen in towering Inferno when they look up and see the skyscraper on fire.

Back in 2012 there was a VW Karmann Ghia burned out on the 2nd floor of the Blackpool Shopping Centre, fire brigade were able to get to it.

Acosta

Mardyke wrote: »

What's wrong with it? Curious.

I find it to be very higgledy-piggledy, very messy in terms of the lay out with lanes running into each other resulting in staff having to do point duty. Maybe they had it sorted as I've not been in there for a couple of years.

pwurple

Acosta wrote: »

I find it to be very higgledy-piggledy, very messy in terms of the lay out with lanes running into each other resulting in staff having to do point duty. Maybe they had it sorted as I've not been in there for a couple of years.

All the staff generally did was usher cars along when they decided to stop and wait for a space on level 1 instead of driving up to the next floor to a hundred empty spots.

People didn’t like to sharp turns on the ramps, judging by the bumper paint on walls, but that won’t change i’d say.

Cork Trucker

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Back in 2012 there was a VW Karmann Ghia burned out on the 2nd floor of the Blackpool Shopping Centre, fire brigade were able to get to it.

Correct, I remember that.

beer enigma

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Correct, I remember that.

Blackpool is very unusual though in so far as the ramps are very high. Look at Q Park, even if they could get in they couldn't make the turns.

Cork Trucker

beer enigma wrote: »

Blackpool is very unusual though in so far as the ramps are very high. Look at Q Park, even if they could get in they couldn't make the turns.

What makes Blackpool multistorey all the more unusual is:

1. It was constructed in the early 00's, while the Douglas one was built in the late 00's

2. It is or at least was at the time also owned by the same Clayton Love.

Why in the name of god they didn't copy the Blackpool Multistorey design is beyond me especially as it was a new build, if Clayton Love employed all the same people.

TheChizler

Is a different site, much wider but the first floor is much higher because of woodies. Why would they copy it?

Harika

Still curious what their design goal was with this crossing in the middle of the car park in Douglas.
Anyway the market in the new location is great, especially in this weather. Parking at the cinema for one hour free, only downside will be rain and weather as it is not as sheltered as before. Before even in bad weather you could just hope out and in to get your stuff. Now it is a bit further.
Add some more seating arrangements, like beer benches and tables so people can stay have a coffee and a treat. Even prolong hours e.g. for Christmas markets with beer, tea, wine, buskers could be a great attraction for Douglas.

TheChizler

Harika wrote: »

Still curious what their design goal was with this crossing in the middle of the car park in Douglas.

Probably saved the rest of the building as the gap for the crossing stopped fire spreading to cars beyond it.

If you consider the locations of the ramps the traffic layout kind of makes sense, it's an unusual shape site for a multistory.

Cork Trucker

TheChizler wrote: »

Is a different site, much wider but the first floor is much higher because of woodies. Why would they copy it?

Access for the fire service which Blackpool has successfully proven can be done if the design was done right.

beer enigma

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Access for the fire service which Blackpool has successfully proven can be done if the design was done right.

It's not just ramp height though, no way a fire engine would negotiate the bends in the ramp. They weren't allowed access from the Woolen Mills side as far as I remember so with a side access the ramps were ways going to be too tight for engines.

Cork Trucker

beer enigma wrote: »

It's not just ramp height though, no way a fire engine would negotiate the bends in the ramp. They weren't allowed access from the Woolen Mills side as far as I remember so with a side access the ramps were ways going to be too tight for engines.

The bends in Douglas not a hope in hell, i'm unsure as to what restrictions were put in place for the design. They probably weren't allowed to do it as the former car park became the new relief road, and as many here have witnessed, traffic regularly backed up from the car park back to the cross roads on either end, even onto the South Douglas Road, maybe they were caught for space and couldn't do it but may have formed part of the original proposal. On the ramps issue, even some large MPV's found it tight going up there.

beer enigma

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The bends in Douglas not a hope in hell, i'm unsure as to what restrictions were put in place for the design. They probably weren't allowed to do it as the former car park became the new relief road, and as many here have witnessed, traffic regularly backed up from the car park back to the cross roads on either end, even onto the South Douglas Road, maybe they were caught for space and couldn't do it but may have formed part of the original proposal. On the ramps issue, even some large MPV's found it tight going up there.

Sorry to bring up again, but if this happened the extent it did in Douglas, god help a Q Park fire

Cork Trucker

beer enigma wrote: »

Sorry to bring up again, but if this happened the extent it did in Douglas, god help a Q Park fire

I know the entrance to the Q Park in the Grand Parade is fine, but i have no idea how it is further up.

ofcork

Tight enough

skallywag

I think people are going down the wrong direction completely with the arguments that fire engines etc. should be able to access such structures. They cannot be economically designed with that in mind.

It is not the norm.

I have recently been in 8-10 level car parks in Germany and Switzerland and there is no way on earth that a fire machine would be able to have access.

beer enigma

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I know the entrance to the Q Park in the Grand Parade is fine, but i have no idea how it is further up.

Ridiculously tight both in ramps and spaces and makes Douglas seem like a luxury car park. My point s more in potential for spread but obviously both within regulations.

beer enigma

skallywag wrote: »

I think people are going down the wrong direction completely with the arguments that fire engines etc. should be able to access such structures. They cannot be economically designed with that in mind.

It is not the norm.

I have recently been in 8-10 level car parks in Germany and Switzerland and there is no way on earth that a fire machine would be able to have access.

I agree, the thought of trying to get a laden tender to into a car park is not ideal. Even getting hoses up there. Fire suppressant is the only answer

my3cents

Don't most car parks like that have a dry riser which is just pipe work preinstalled for the fire brigade to connect up to? The fire engines don't need to go into the car park and connect to the dry riser outside.

TheChizler

my3cents wrote: »

Don't most car parks like that have a dry riser which is just pipe work preinstalled for the fire brigade to connect up to? The fire engines don't need to go into the car park and connect to the dry riser outside.

Exactly, the dry riser outlets perform the same function as pump appliance. Madness to send a full laden appliance and personnel into a large fire in a smoke filled building with no ability to see never mind guarantee the ability to turn around and get out of they need to. They won't even send people in to burning houses if there's no people left inside, never mind a vehicle. Much safer and easier to tackle from the outside with raised platforms and use the dry risers to finish when it gets under control.

Hibernicis

TheChizler wrote: »

Exactly, the dry riser outlets perform the same function as pump appliance. Madness to send a full laden appliance and personnel into a large fire in a smoke filled building with no ability to see never mind guarantee the ability to turn around and get out of they need to. They won't even send people in to burning houses if there's no people left inside, never mind a vehicle. Much safer and easier to tackle from the outside with raised platforms and use the dry risers to finish when it gets under control.

+++

Why would you send a string of fire appliances and firefighters headlong into the epicenter of the fire. Far better to fight it from the safety of the edges. This discussion about driving fire trucks into a multi story car park is a complete red herring. The fire service would be quick to point it out if it were otherwise.

Hibernicis

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Why in the name of god they didn't copy the Blackpool Multistorey design is beyond me especially as it was a new build, if Clayton Love employed all the same people.

Two totally different things. Blackpool was a greenfield site with no activity other then construction on site. The site in Douglas was fully utilised (between the busy shopping centre and the busy surface car park) on day one making the construction phase very challenging, multi-phase and impacting hugely on the design of the new centre.

corkgsxr

I can drive a nissan primastar lwb van without hassle in and around any of the car parks in Cork city.

And many many times around Douglas.

If I can get around in that without much risk of scraping it's not that tight.

dulpit

I work in Blackpool, I parked there this morning and I would be very surprised if a fire tender could get in there - there is a low hanging warning sign at the entrance, the corners are pretty tight, and the girders overhead are quite low when you level out on each of the floors.

zilog_jones

corkgsxr wrote: »

I can drive a nissan primastar lwb van without hassle in and around any of the car parks in Cork city.

And many many times around Douglas.

If I can get around in that without much risk of scraping it's not that tight.

Yeah I dunno how people think the ramps in Douglas Village are tight - just look at any of the car parks in the city centre, especially the older ones (Paul St., Merchant's Quay).

Mardyke

beer enigma wrote: »

Ridiculously tight both in ramps and spaces and makes Douglas seem like a luxury car park. My point s more in potential for spread but obviously both within regulations.

To be behind a wheel you should be able to drive in and out of a car park. Irish drivers seem to like open spaces and "lay bys" all over the place.

Chris_5339762

Jurys in Galway would make people who are frightened of Douglas scream and run away.

beer enigma

Mardyke wrote: »

To be behind a wheel you should be able to drive in and out of a car park. Irish drivers seem to like open spaces and "lay bys" all over the place.

Personally I find your blanket insinuation toward 'Irish' drivers offensive.

Spaces in the likes of North Main street and Q Park are extremely tight, Douglas as I pointed out was quite spacious. It doesn't mean I can't park in any of the car parks, if you care to read my comments I was referring to the potential for fire spread as a result of car proximity.

sondagefaux

snotboogie wrote: »

I don't get "de feel of de village" stuff that comes out in critisims of the shopping centre. Douglas has a population of 30k, its bigger than Kilkenny City, it has double the population of Killarney. The village name is a throwback to the 60's and 70's. There is one major residential development under construction and another 5 or so at various stages of planning. If Douglas accepted what it is, a major suburb contiguous to a city heading for a 40k+ population, rather than a 1950's rural village that everyone wants to pretend it still is, it could make sensible decisions. Busconnects has huge plans for the area and it could be one of the biggest public transport hubs in Ireland but I know "de feel of de village" types will do everything to scupper it.

On topic the rumour I've heard is that the whole centre has been compromised and may need to be knocked....

In some good news for "de village" the public realm works are underway in the community park and the renders on the hoarding look fantastic.

I grew up in Douglas and, apart from the name, it was never a village when I lived there.

It's effectively been a suburb of Cork city since the 19th century, when trams connected Douglas to the city centre, and even during the 1980s, when Ireland's economy was in terrible shape, there were new housing developments and new roads constructed in and around Douglas.