Ice, EV or hybrid?

1hnr79jr65

Looking for help to find out which is best option for replacing my car.

I am living in Dundalk and working in Dublin, it is approx 90km each way door to door.

Current car, 08 Honda Civic sport diesel 2.2 turbo, 60-65 euro a week in diesel for travel.

I am considering changing my car due to age and insurance costs however with all the talk of EV and Hybrids, not sure which direction to go.

I would have a budget of 10,000 euros for changing my car
want newer car
never driven automatic but open to that

Would i be better off staying with diesel or would there be an ev/hybrid which would suit my budget and travel range?

krissovo

With your budget there is only a early leaf or a Zoe with battery lease in scope. With 180k’s round trip it could be a miserable commute as you would need to charge at work or a public charger to make it back.

I would wait until one of the new generation EV’s with 200km+ range become available and up the budget.

Yep , wait until the kona or leaf 60 odd kWh become available 2nd hand which could be 5 or more years at 10k euros .

Nurse the diesel along or buy 2nd hand Prius they are very reliable.

Anything else will wreck your head.

Gumbo

krissovo wrote: »

With your budget there is only a early leaf or a Zoe with battery lease in scope. With 180k’s round trip it could be a miserable commute as you would need to charge at work or a public charger to make it back.

I would wait until one of the new generation EV’s with 200km+ range become available and up the budget.

Early Leaf may not even make the 90km trip to work.

1hnr79jr65

What sort of budget would i need to make EV/hybrid useful ?

selectamatic

Upgrade to a newer diesel. 2.0tdi superb or Octavia in a good spec would be worth a shout.

Or just keep the civic going. Insurance can't be that much of an issue yet surely.

No 90-100 km ev is suitable for the op.

If the civic is reliable then the cheapest thing to do is keep it and save a good deposit on 60 kwh ev.

1hnr79jr65

Ive seen my insurance increased by almost 45% in last few years, no claims, accidents or anything negative that should affect it, only thing is the car is getting older and false claims generally.

Looking like best option is what selectamatic suggested and by a newer car like superb or octavia, might look at 1.6 engine thoug, im sure the newer model engines are just as efficient as older 2l (open to correction on this)

Sour Lemonz

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Ive seen my insurance increased by almost 45% in last few years, no claims, accidents or anything negative that should affect it, only thing is the car is getting older and false claims generally.

Looking like best option is what selectamatic suggested and by a newer car like superb or octavia, might look at 1.6 engine thoug, im sure the newer model engines are just as efficient as older 2l (open to correction on this)

If you want to get a newer car now I'd go with a Prius , leaps and bounds better than any diesel.

KCross

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Looking for help to find out which is best option for replacing my car.

I am living in Dundalk and working in Dublin, it is approx 90km each way door to door.

Current car, 08 Honda Civic sport diesel 2.2 turbo, 60-65 euro a week in diesel for travel.

I am considering changing my car due to age and insurance costs however with all the talk of EV and Hybrids, not sure which direction to go.

I would have a budget of 10,000 euros for changing my car
want newer car
never driven automatic but open to that

Would i be better off staying with diesel or would there be an ev/hybrid which would suit my budget and travel range?

Any chance of work charging?
If you could get that, a Leaf 30kWh would suit. Would you drive a Leaf?


You would need to up the budget a little... but not much, it would be easily justified based on the €2400+ per year you are going to save on fuel.

If no chance of a work charger then you cannot go the EV route with your budget.

selectamatic

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Ive seen my insurance increased by almost 45% in last few years, no claims, accidents or anything negative that should affect it, only thing is the car is getting older and false claims generally.

Looking like best option is what selectamatic suggested and by a newer car like superb or octavia, might look at 1.6 engine thoug, im sure the newer model engines are just as efficient as older 2l (open to correction on this)

The older 2.0tdi from 05 is a different engine to the newer one. I'd aim for a 2.0 cr tdi over the 1.6 both are fuel efficient but the 2.0 tend to be better for motorway driving and slightly more efficient at or above the 120km/h mark. The dsg box is good if considering auto and I believe it makes the 1.6tdi a much nicer drive than the 5 speed manual.

If your commute was stop start M50 stuff I'd consider the prius but for your 90km each way mainly motorway commute a diesel would be hard beat.

unkel

selectamatic wrote: »

If your commute was stop start M50 stuff I'd consider the prius but for your 90km each way mainly motorway commute a diesel would be hard beat.

+1

In terms of money saving that is. If your situation / budget is not yet ready for EV / PHEV, then I would buy a comfy diesel automatic banger. 900km commute per week is a lot of time in your car before and after a busy working day. Comfort is very important here.

Diesel is not first choice for Motorway driving compared to a modern Prius. They are good Motorway and town city.

What you may loose on the motorway if anything you'll more than make up for in town/city and slower driving in a Prius.

1hnr79jr65

KCross wrote: »

Any chance of work charging?
If you could get that, a Leaf 30kWh would suit. Would you drive a Leaf?


You would need to up the budget a little... but not much, it would be easily justified based on the €2400+ per year you are going to save on fuel.

If no chance of a work charger then you cannot go the EV route with your budget.

Been up walls with work so just getting back to this, no chance of work charger, compnay has none and not investing in them. Budgets tight atm, maybe things change down the road but 10k would be where i am at for now.

1hnr79jr65

selectamatic wrote: »

The older 2.0tdi from 05 is a different engine to the newer one. I'd aim for a 2.0 cr tdi over the 1.6 both are fuel efficient but the 2.0 tend to be better for motorway driving and slightly more efficient at or above the 120km/h mark. The dsg box is good if considering auto and I believe it makes the 1.6tdi a much nicer drive than the 5 speed manual.

If your commute was stop start M50 stuff I'd consider the prius but for your 90km each way mainly motorway commute a diesel would be hard beat.

Not a fan of automatics although i realise i would have to go auto if getting ev/hev/phev, always driven manual, most my driving will be on M1 so agreed diesel looks way to stay for now.

1hnr79jr65

unkel wrote: »

+1

In terms of money saving that is. If your situation / budget is not yet ready for EV / PHEV, then I would buy a comfy diesel automatic banger. 900km commute per week is a lot of time in your car before and after a busy working day. Comfort is very important here.

comfort is def an important factor for me as i would be commuting approx 2-3 hours a day traffic depending.

Been looking at skoda octavia/superb, seat exeo, vw passat/cc maybe the optimal route for now. audi a4 could also be option.

zilog_jones

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Not a fan of automatics...

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

comfort is def an important factor for me...

Automatic = comfort

Most modern automatics are efficient and responsive, and are great on the motorway with cruise control (no need to cancel CC to change gears). Great when stuck in traffic too.

At your budget there's not a great selection of comfortable hybrids. But maybe check out a Gen 3 Prius or Lexus CT200h. The older Prius doesn't have much of a premium feel inside (lots of hard plastics, etc.) but high spec UK models have decent spec (heated seats, synthetic leather, LED headlamps, HUD, decent stereo, etc.). CT200h uses the same powertrain and is much nicer inside, but a bit small.

biko

zilog_jones wrote: »

Automatic = comfort

+1
I drove a automatic in US for work a long time ago, and since it's been a staple in my cars.
It's great in city traffic.

pb2

Any hybrid drivers any info on how they handle motorway trips?

I've a 60km motorway roundtrip each day and rest would be city driving. Wondering do I fall into a hybrid as like the look of the new corrolla

Cheers for any feedback

pb2

pb2 wrote: »

Any hybrid drivers any info on how they handle motorway trips?

I've a 60km motorway roundtrip each day and rest would be city driving. Wondering do I fall into a hybrid as like the look of the new corrolla

Cheers for any feedback

What you might loose on the motorway you will gain at slower speeds and in town with a hybrid.

It's the /100 km per tank to be concerned about.

Modern hybrids are more efficient than my old Prius mk2.

+ the joy of driving an automatic and the fact it's not a diesel rattllebox.

Have you considered fully electric or PHEV like a BMW i3 Rex ? I3 33 kwh rex can do 150-220 kms on battery alone and it's a great car to drive.

pb2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What you might loose on the motorway you will gain at slower speeds and in town with a hybrid.

It's the /100 km per tank to be concerned about.

Modern hybrids are more efficient than my old Prius mk2.

+ the joy of driving an automatic and the fact it's not a diesel rattllebox.

Have you considered fully electric or PHEV like a BMW i3 Rex ? I3 33 kwh rex can do 150-220 kms on battery alone and it's a great car to drive.

I haven't looked at them at all, ruled out diesel and was looking at the 1.0 focus or the corrolla.

Was ment to do this last year and stupidly got engaged as we were about to buy an i30. Badly needs to be done now as current car is on its last legs

Cheers for the suggestion. Will have a look I to it.

rolion

My phev Outlander does 7l/100km.
Eco mode,120 kmh on cruise,"save" mode on battery.
Anything slower than 60 goes in EV mode,once speeds at 100ish,petrol engine kicks in.
Still not sure what takes on mixed EV/petrol...over a certain distance as only one trip out to Carlow so far.

And by the way the Diesel Outlander ( manual gearbox ) is not doing much better and probably a little worse depending on how much you can keep the PHEV battery topped up. We have the Outlander diesel.

pb2

pb2 wrote: »

I haven't looked at them at all, ruled out diesel and was looking at the 1.0 focus or the corrolla.

Was ment to do this last year and stupidly got engaged as we were about to buy an i30. Badly needs to be done now as current car is on its last legs

Cheers for the suggestion. Will have a look I to it.

A 40 Kwh Leaf would do that no problem all year around, what is your total commute ?

I3 rex is great, does not need to stop at charge points if they are busy and has much more battery range than any other PHEV available.

zilog_jones

pb2 wrote: »

Any hybrid drivers any info on how they handle motorway trips?

I've a 60km motorway roundtrip each day and rest would be city driving. Wondering do I fall into a hybrid as like the look of the new corrolla

Cheers for any feedback

New Corolla Hybrid should average around 60 MPG, probably a bit worse with all motorway driving but no worse than 55 MPG.

Hardly, I was able to get that in a MK2 Prius, surely a new gen Hybrid can get better than that as I said People think Hybrid and motorway and neglect to think about all the slower driving.

rolion

Deleted User wrote: »

A 40 Kwh Leaf would do that no problem all year around, what is your total commute ?

I3 rex is great, does not need to stop at charge points if they are busy and has much more battery range than any other PHEV available.

Not sure how a Leaf can do in a good efficient way a motorway journey without destination charger.

Corect but my phev has a bigger REx than any other i3s !
In case of a unhappy unavoided "morning or afternoon" crash on motorway, my PHEV will beep on screen and confirms that it found new hardware connected to chassis. Funny not funny kind of sarcastic truth.

rolion

rolion wrote: »

Not sure how a Leaf can do in a good efficient way a motorway journey without destination charger.

Corect but my phev has a bigger REx than any other i3s !
In case of a unhappy unavoided "morning or afternoon" crash on motorway, my PHEV will beep on screen and confirms that it found new hardware connected to chassis. Funny not funny kind of sarcastic truth.

A 40 Kwh Leaf can do a 60 Km/h commute no problem.

Yes your PHEV has a bigger rex only issue is that it has a tiny battery by comparison and it's the main source of traction lol. :P

I don't get the crash bit of your post ?

pb2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A 40 Kwh Leaf would do that no problem all year around, what is your total commute ?

I3 rex is great, does not need to stop at charge points if they are busy and has much more battery range than any other PHEV available.

Total commute would be 70km on a normal day. With an occasional 100-120km. Wouldn't really go over that much if ever.

djivide_

Deleted User wrote: »

I3 rex is great, does not need to stop at charge points if they are busy and has much more battery range than any other PHEV available.

Not strictly true anymore. the X5 45e phev has a larger battery, 24 vs 22

adunis

Do not buy a hybrid,,I won't go into my personal feelings towards them,I'd buy a new gen 1.0 petrol if I were you if you can't strech to a brand new ze4 Zoë with 300k range for 22k brand spanking at 0% HO over 5 years

djivide_

djivide_ wrote: »

Not strictly true anymore. the X5 45e phev has a larger battery, 24 vs 22

If you want to talk strictly then the i3 has the largest battery in a PHEV ( 33 Kwh ) but also by far the longest EV only range.

In actual fact, the 44 Kwh i3 still has the Rex option in the US and probably all North America, BMW would not pay for re-certification for the Rex in Europe.

zilog_jones

adunis wrote: »

Do not buy a hybrid,,I won't go into my personal feelings towards them...

You're not exactly giving a convincing argument there...

rolion

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to talk strictly then the i3 has the largest battery in a PHEV ( 33 Kwh ) but also by far the longest EV only range.

In actual fact, the 44 Kwh i3 still has the Rex option in the US and probably all North America, BMW would not pay for re-certification for the Rex in Europe.

With all respect for your purchase and good intention to "protect" the i3 car (which, i love it myself) i cannot say anything more about it as long as even the manufacturing company stops producing the car:

https://www.electrive.com/2019/09/16/bmw-will-not-renew-the-i3/

rolion

We will never reach a definitive logical conclusion on which is better.
I have both,BEV as secondary car / work small journeys and PHEV, as the main horse.

Next car,if is to come to that,it will be a PHEV hybrid ...cant describe the feelings driving the phev compared with the stress of BEV (in relation to battery,charging,range).
Good luck.

krissovo

To quote from the article "We are now bringing electrification more to the mainstream.”........... Translates to, We are going to build some soulless multi function platforms which equals the I3 will forever be protected. Carbon fiber tub with aluminium chassis, future classic no doubt. One of only a handful of pure designed EV platforms on the road.

daheff

OP -have you thought about buying an EV on PCP? I know its not for everybody, but roughly speaking I work out the following (based off Kia's website).


Mid range E-Niro (range I believe is really around 200-250km so should do you over and back to work) ex works is listed as 33,495 online.

If you got 4k trade in for your existing car that would leave monthly repayment of 516 EUR and final payment of 13,400 EUR. You wouldnt need touch your 10k deposit up front (assuming you mean 10k in cash)

So bear with me on this:
Monthly repayment is 516 EUR, but your petrol savings would be 65*4 =260, so net output would be 256 Eur a month.

256*37 repayments is 9475 (so pretty much your 10k deposit).

What you need to think about is can you save the 13K final payment over the 3 years (or afford to pay a loan off of 13k after the PCP)?


To me, this option gets you a good new car affordably -should reduce your tax & insurance too (maybe not 13k, but I reckon 4-5k over the life of the car).

also less likely to have any expensive repairs needed & service costs would be much much lower.




I've used Kia Niro as an example, but do the same calcs for other cars (leaf, new VW range etc) to see what might work for you.

rolion

rolion wrote: »

With all respect for your purchase and good intention to "protect" the i3 car (which, i love it myself) i cannot say anything more about it as long as even the manufacturing company stops producing the car:

https://www.electrive.com/2019/09/16/bmw-will-not-renew-the-i3/

What am I saying about the i3 Rex except it has the largest Kwh in any PHEV + the longest EV only range ? + it's the only PHEV that is 100% driven by the electric motor.

BMW have said the I3 will cease production then said it will continue then said no then said yes, bla bla, I don't care to be honest because I probably won't be getting another, at the rate of progression to EV , there is very few options available to me next November. The i3 "S" 44 Kwh is tempting because the i3 is just so good to drive the S is supposed to be better but the i3 will have been out 5 years by then and it's still limited to 50 Kw so with BEV only I don't think I would get one, 50 Kw is too limiting especially if the battery is cold then it charges a lot slower as with all EV's.

ID.3 ? too expensive with decent kit and battery but at least it will be RWD, BMW are going FWD as standard with all their future cars if they haven't switched already, both Petrol, Diesel and EV. And EV needs RWD. I couldn't drive a Leaf or Kona it would drive me insane.

daheff

daheff wrote: »

OP -have you thought about buying an EV on PCP? I know its not for everybody, but roughly speaking I work out the following (based off Kia's website).


Mid range E-Niro (range I believe is really around 200-250km so should do you over and back to work) ex works is listed as 33,495 online.

If you got 4k trade in for your existing car that would leave monthly repayment of 516 EUR and final payment of 13,400 EUR. You wouldnt need touch your 10k deposit up front (assuming you mean 10k in cash)

So bear with me on this:
Monthly repayment is 516 EUR, but your petrol savings would be 65*4 =260, so net output would be 256 Eur a month.

256*37 repayments is 9475 (so pretty much your 10k deposit).

What you need to think about is can you save the 13K final payment over the 3 years (or afford to pay a loan off of 13k after the PCP)?


To me, this option gets you a good new car affordably -should reduce your tax & insurance too (maybe not 13k, but I reckon 4-5k over the life of the car).

also less likely to have any expensive repairs needed & service costs would be much much lower.




I've used Kia Niro as an example, but do the same calcs for other cars (leaf, new VW range etc) to see what might work for you.

What range has the E-Niro on battery ? 50 Km if you are very lucky ?

33 Kwh i3 Rex can do 150-220 Kms on battery alone and should be got at a good price, passing queues at chargers is very gratifying to say the last.

Mickeroo

Deleted User wrote: »

What range has the E-Niro on battery ? 50 Km if you are very lucky ?

33 Kwh i3 Rex can do 150-220 Kms on battery alone and should be got at a good price, passing queues at chargers is very gratifying to say the last.

They're talking about the BEV e-Niro not the Niro hybrid I think.

pb2

Never really thought about ev as wanted to keep monthly repayments to a certain level, but when factor in petrol savings like as done above could definitely work.

Plan was to trade in ours which is more scrappage than trade in, use about 5k more of our own money to reduce payments and then borrow about 20k.

You'll probably find the interest on the PCP is far lower, probably half or less than bank loan or Hire Purchase so it's cheap credit once you know how PCP works.

Basically, pay deposit to match what you want to pay monthly for the 3 years and the GFMV is the balloon at the end, if there is more value in the car you keep it if there is not you get nothing and will have to pay the full GFMV price.

I'm on my 2nd PCP, works well for me. My PCP is up next November and I got the choice to pay cash for the GFMV or refinance it and keep the cash in the band provided the interest is cheap, my other option of course is to put that money towards a new or 2nd hand EV.

charlieIRL

Nissan and VW are doing 0% on PCP now as well.

rolion

P C P - payment,continous payment AND actually never own the car !
Probable , designed and made for people that likes the highest numbers on the plate for their neighbours.

Get a car loan and buy the bloody car,is yours until it dies on the side of the road.
Give it a sweet kiss, scrap it and buy another one.

liamog

rolion wrote: »

P C P - payment,continous payment AND actually never own the car !
Probable , designed and made for people that likes the highest numbers on the plate for their neighbours.

Get a car loan and buy the bloody car,is yours until it dies on the side of the road.
Give it a sweet kiss, scrap it and buy another one.

That's pretty daft advice, as with any financial instrument you should do the math and work out what's best. Buying an e-Golf using VW finance (10% deposit) over 4 years works out cheaper with a PCP by around €4,000.

PCP is a no brainer , Some people that buy a car with a loan pay it over 5 years and pay a lot of interest and won't change the car again until the 5 year loan is paid off, however, PCP allows the Person to change the car after 3 years instead of paying off over 5 years.

PCP give the option both to change the car after 3 years or pay the balloon and keep it if that's what they want.

It makes no sense to have to wait 5 years to pay full price of car + interest before you can change if PCP offers much lower repayments over that 3 years.

At the time the leaf would have cost me about 750 PM to pay off over 5 years with a bank loan and same deposit, PCP cost me about 450 PM because I had no intentions to keep it so it didn't make sense to pay 750 a month for a car I did not want to own or drive for 5 years. Of course one can also re-finance after 3 years if they choose but will have to sell the car first and will find it difficult if outstanding finance shows up ( it shouldn't ) but people are afraid to buy a car with outstanding finance but it's dead easy to sell a car with outstanding finance, this is how I bout my Prius.

daheff

Deleted User wrote: »

What range has the E-Niro on battery ? 50 Km if you are very lucky ?

33 Kwh i3 Rex can do 150-220 Kms on battery alone and should be got at a good price, passing queues at chargers is very gratifying to say the last.

Mickeroo wrote: »

They're talking about the BEV e-Niro not the Niro hybrid I think.

Yep -talking about the smaller BEV version of the Niro- not the PHEV (which isnt suitable for what the OP is saying IMO)


Mid range is listed as 39kw battery with range of 277km (really going to be 75%-80% or so of that)

30 kwh would meet his commute comfortably, a 30 kwh leaf. Charges faster at fast chargers too.

rolion

Deleted User wrote: »

30 kwh would meet his commute comfortably, a 30 kwh leaf. Charges faster at fast chargers too.

myLad, OP lives in Dundalk, thats almost 100Km one way purely on motorway M1 and none on back roads.
How a 30Kw Leaf with a range of max 250km in ideal conditions will do it nicely, cant figure out,help me here please .

rolion

Deleted User wrote: »

PCP is a no brainer , Some people that buy a car with a loan pay it over 5 years and pay a lot of interest and won't change the car again until the 5 year loan is paid off, however, PCP allows the Person to change the car after 3 years instead of paying off over 5 years.

PCP give the option both to change the car after 3 years or pay the balloon and keep it if that's what they want.

It makes no sense to have to wait 5 years to pay full price of car + interest before you can change if PCP offers much lower repayments over that 3 years.

At the time the leaf would have cost me about 750 PM to pay off over 5 years with a bank loan and same deposit, PCP cost me about 450 PM because I had no intentions to keep it so it didn't make sense to pay 750 a month for a car I did not want to own or drive for 5 years. Of course one can also re-finance after 3 years if they choose but will have to sell the car first and will find it difficult if outstanding finance shows up ( it shouldn't ) but people are afraid to buy a car with outstanding finance but it's dead easy to sell a car with outstanding finance, this is how I bout my Prius.

Not sure is this financial or mathematical or... common sense discussion type argument can help the OP...
My life concept is that a car life is 5 years. Between 5 and 8 years is losing more value as a social status while cost of repairs can go up,as well. At the end of 8 years,change it or keep it until crashes offline.

I always loved to own things rather than to lease or PCP.Being mine is very important.
I used to have a PCP on a van,paying every month hundreds and still not owning the vehicle.Apaprently,is good for taxes.

Now,i got a good healthy hybrid on a car loan,3 years paying almost same amount AND with less monthly outgoings due to battery 40km range which covers 75% of my daily tasks in work.
After 4 years (and out of 8 years warranty with 2 + 3 ) i still have 3 years warranty which costs me zero,nada ,nilch,nimic,nema ! Social status can be ignored at my age so PCP can go and rip off another happy proud owner and its life style every 3 (three) years.

I chose common sense against social status.
Either option,i am sure both of us are enjoying the car.

liamog

Before we go too far down the rabbit hole of people not really understanding PCP, further discussion should be held over here (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057120240)