Electrical Work

obi604

Hi

I bought a 2011 Nissan Leaf about a week ago. looking now at my home charging options.

Key thing: I live in a rented house and plan to move in a few months to my new permanent house.

So between now and then, I want to look at a cost effective way to get charging up and running at home.
The landlord is ok with me doing work in regard to this.
I know there is a grant but I dont want to use this grant until I move to my permanent home (this can indeed be done months after buying the car)
Ive heard words like: priority switches, breakers, bypasses, upgraded cabling etc


My options are

(1) Install an external weatherproof 3 pin 13 amp socket and utilize this with the granny cable: https://www.adverts.ie/other/granny-cable-nissan-leaf/18583113
I am guessing there are lots of people that plug in their granny cables to a standard 3 pin socket without a second thought and charge their car away and all works fine without priority switches, special cabling etc. I am presuming this external socket would be an ok option.


(2) Install a dedicated 16 amp car charger like this: https://www.adverts.ie/other/electri...point/18503556
These home chargers come in 16 amp and 32 amp. Supposedly from what I read, the 32 amp needs special cabling and priority switches etc, whereas the 16 amp version does not, open to correction. This will cost me a bit more, about 100 euro for the charging unit.

Im trying to figure out if the cabling needed for option 2 would be the same as option 1 - and the only difference being that there is a 16 amp charger wired in instead of the 13 amp 3 pin socket.


I know these questions probably seem silly, but im just trying to get things clear in my head.
Its all about being cost effective and not having to do the full proper job in a rented hose and then have to come along in a few months time and do it all over again in the permanent house.

DublinDilbert

Put in a good quality outdoor socket, good for hovering the car and cutting the grass. Can be used by the next person too. It might be possible to take power from another socket in the hall or front room, depending on the loads.

obi604

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Put in a good quality outdoor socket, good for hovering the car and cutting the grass. Can be used by the next person too. It might be possible to take power from another socket in the hall or front room, depending on the loads.

Thank you. So you reckon option 1 is ok? Does it need any special cabling, priority switches etc?

Sleeper12

obi604 wrote:

Thank you. So you reckon option 1 is ok? Does it need any special cabling, priority switches etc?

I'm not an electrician so happy to be corrected but I think the priority switch is for using heavy duty chargers. They would be to stop you fast charging your car & running an electric shower at the same time.

I can't see how charging with a regular 3 pin plug would ever need a priority switch.

obi604

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Put in a good quality outdoor socket, good for hovering the car and cutting the grass. Can be used by the next person too. It might be possible to take power from another socket in the hall or front room, depending on the loads.

Would the 16 amp charger in option 2: https://www.adverts.ie/other/electri...point/18503556

have the same wiring involved as option 1? Or would it require extra cabling and priority switches etc due to it being regarded as a ‘heavy duty’ charger

DublinDilbert

A 16a charger would normally be connected directly to the fuse board on a dedicated rcbo. In Ireland they don’t like connecting fixed equipment like a charger to a socket circuit. It’s prefered to put it on its own circuit.

If you were staying in the house option 2 is the way to go. As your moving option 1 would be better.

obi604

DublinDilbert wrote: »

A 16a charger would normally be connected directly to the fuse board on a dedicated rcbo. In Ireland they don’t like connecting fixed equipment like a charger to a socket circuit. It’s prefered to put it on its own circuit.

If you were staying in the house option 2 is the way to go. As your moving option 1 would be better.

Thank you!!!

I know prices vary a lot.
Let’s say distance from fuse board to charge point is 3 metres.

What would be the rough price of option 1 and option 2. Just ball park.

obi604

For the external weatherproof 13 amp socket install —> and for getting an electrician and based on what I have explained here..........do I even need to mention it will be used to charge an electric car? Or will this just over complicate matters?

TheChizler

If you're going for option 2 there's no point not putting in a 32A system, same amount of cabling effort and they're not a whole lot more expensive. Some EVSEs have in built current limiting so you don't need a priority switch if you have an electric shower.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

If you're going for option 2 there's no point not putting in a 32A system, same amount of cabling effort and they're not a whole lot more expensive. Some EVSEs have in built current limiting so you don't need a priority switch if you have an electric shower.

Ah ok. I thought with option 2 when it was just a 16 amp (versus a 32 amp) charger, that the work involved was same as the work for the external 13 amp outdoor plug.
I.e. not complicated.

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

For the external weatherproof 13 amp socket install —> and for getting an electrician and based on what I have explained here..........do I even need to mention it will be used to charge an electric car? Or will this just over complicate matters?

What do ye think on this? Worth mentioning or just stay quiet? (As nothing special needed for option 1 with granny cable)

xl500

If you are moving soon the easist option is to install an external socket make sure you get a good quality one as the load will be on for a long period while charging car

Granny Cable Load is usually max 10a so not really any need to inform Electrican what socket is to be used for

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

If you are moving soon the easist option is to install an external socket make sure you get a good quality one as the load will be on for a long period while charging car

Granny Cable Load is usually max 10a so not really any need to inform Electrican what socket is to be used for

Perfect !! Just so I know, could you link a good quality socket.

Something like this: https://www.ie.screwfix.com/british-general-nexus-13a-1g-switch-socket.html

What makes one socket better over the other? Or what do I specifically need to get in a socket?

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

Perfect !! Just so I know, could you link a good quality socket.

Something like this: https://www.ie.screwfix.com/british-general-nexus-13a-1g-switch-socket.html

What makes one socket better over the other? Or what do I specifically need to get in a socket?

Well what makes one better than the next is the quality of the construction MK are great and for a 10a continuous Load I would like to have a really good socket with good strong connections

You also need to be sure the one you choose can take a Large moulded plug some granny cables have a large 13a moulded plug

Its the old adage you get what you pay for but the difference in the cost of the socket is minimal in the cost of the job if you are paying an Electrican to install


Like These

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-masterseal-plus-13a-2-gang-switched-socket/98279

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-masterseal-plus-13a-2-gang-switched-rcd-socket-passive/76855

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

Well what makes one better than the next is the quality of the construction MK are great and for a 10a continuous Load I would like to have a really good socket with good strong connections

You also need to be sure the one you choose can take a Large moulded plug some granny cables have a large 13a moulded plug

Its the old adage you get what you pay for but the difference in the cost of the socket is minimal in the cost of the job if you are paying an Electrican to install


Like These

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-masterseal-plus-13a-2-gang-switched-socket/98279

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-masterseal-plus-13a-2-gang-switched-rcd-socket-passive/76855

Thanks, are you specifying a 2 gang due to the large bulky nature of the granny?

And a single one may be too small?

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks, are you specifying a 2 gang due to the large bulky nature of the granny?

And a single one may be too small?

No its just I always would install a Double but if a Single suits you the no problem

Unless you are stuck for space on wall then the difference in price is minimal

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-masterseal-plus-13a-1-gang-switched-socket/30703

You could always install MK socket now and replace it with cheaper option when moving and Take MK with you to new House

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

No its just I always would install a Double but if a Single suits you the no problem

Unless you are stuck for space on wall then the difference in price is minimal

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-masterseal-plus-13a-1-gang-switched-socket/30703

You could always install MK socket now and replace it with cheaper option when moving and Take MK with you to new House

THANK YOU!

Is there such a thing as a lockable one? so when granny cable is plugged in , I could lock it.

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

THANK YOU!

Is there such a thing as a lockable one? so when granny cable is plugged in , I could lock it.

There are Lockable ones but if someone wants to Steal Granny Cable then they will break Socket Lid its only Plastic Better get a cable lock and lock Granny Cable to car wheel or if possible run granny cable through Car wheel but if outside granny cable will be vulnerable to theft

Depending on wheel you might be able to get 13a plug through it so just run cable through wheel

Like this but if they want it they will take it

https://insideevs.com/photo/3941946/how-to-protect-your-nissan-leaf-level-1-charger-from-theft-video/

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

There are Lockable ones but if someone wants to Steal Granny Cable then they will break Socket Lid its only Plastic Better get a cable lock and lock Granny Cable to car wheel or if possible run granny cable through Car wheel but if outside granny cable will be vulnerable to theft

Depending on wheel you might be able to get 13a plug through it so just run cable through wheel

Like this but if they want it they will take it

https://insideevs.com/photo/3941946/how-to-protect-your-nissan-leaf-level-1-charger-from-theft-video/

Brilliant thank you!

obi604

Thanks for all the brilliant help so far.
Now to the install

Is there a regulation for how high sockets need to be from the ground. like in this house im in and most other houses, sockets seem to be usually 2ft above the ground.

can they be put higher or lower height etc

Reason I ask is because the granny cable has a transformer box on it that looks fairly heavy and bulky, the length of cable between plug and transformer box (white arrows) is fairly short, therefore the most likely thing is that the transformer box will be 'hanging' in mid air and put pressure on the plug etc when hanging constantly.

Any thoughts around this?

Maybe but a little holder for transformer box on wall so it does not 'hang' (as basic as a couple of screws maybe)

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks for all the brilliant help so far.
Now to the install

Is there a regulation for how high sockets need to be from the ground. like in this house im in and most other houses, sockets seem to be usually 2ft above the ground.

can they be put higher or lower height etc

Reason I ask is because the granny cable has a transformer box on it that looks fairly heavy and bulky, the length of cable between plug and transformer box (white arrows) is fairly short, therefore the most likely thing is that the transformer box will be 'hanging' in mid air and put pressure on the plug etc when hanging constantly.

Any thoughts around this?

Maybe but a little holder for transformer box on wall so it does not 'hang' (as basic as a couple of screws maybe)

Just put a cable tie on cable below plug pull it tight cut off tail and it will sit on top of closed cover of socket taking the weight

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

Just put a cable tie on cable below plug pull it tight cut off tail and it will sit on top of closed cover of socket taking the weight

Trying to make this out but can’t

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

Trying to make this out but can’t

Like this if you position cable tie just above where flex sits in Socket Cover when you close cover the cable tie will take the strain

TheChizler

obi604 wrote: »

Reason I ask is because the granny cable has a transformer box on it that looks fairly heavy and bulky

Just FYI it's not a transformer, it's some electronics and relays for negotiating the connection with the car, so wouldn't be that heavy. No harm in supporting it still.

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

Like this if you position cable tie just above where flex sits in Socket Cover when you close cover the cable tie will take the strain

Ah yes. Have ya now.

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks for all the brilliant help so far.
Now to the install

Is there a regulation for how high sockets need to be from the ground. like in this house im in and most other houses, sockets seem to be usually 2ft above the ground.

can they be put higher or lower height etc

Reason I ask is because the granny cable has a transformer box on it that looks fairly heavy and bulky, the length of cable between plug and transformer box (white arrows) is fairly short, therefore the most likely thing is that the transformer box will be 'hanging' in mid air and put pressure on the plug etc when hanging constantly.

Any thoughts around this?

Maybe but a little holder for transformer box on wall so it does not 'hang' (as basic as a couple of screws maybe)

For External 3 pin sockets, is there an ideal height to have them at. 2 ft off the ground is it? Or best to put them higher?

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

For External 3 pin sockets, is there an ideal height to have them at. 2 ft off the ground is it? Or best to put them higher?

Anyone on this? May have electrician coming today.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

If you're going for option 2 there's no point not putting in a 32A system, same amount of cabling effort and they're not a whole lot more expensive. Some EVSEs have in built current limiting so you don't need a priority switch if you have an electric shower.

So even If I was to just buy and install the 16 amp charger, I still need to do the priority switches, cabling back to fuse board. etc

i.e. is the electricians work the same for a 16 amp charger and 32 amp charger install?

TheChizler

obi604 wrote: »

So even If I was to just buy and install the 16 amp charger, I still need to do the priority switches, cabling back to fuse board. etc

i.e. is the electricians work the same for a 16 amp charger and 32 amp charger install?

You only really need the priority switch for 32A if you have an electric shower or some other high current device, an induction hob maybe, or if the EVSE doesn't have it built in like the Zappi for instance. If you already have a lot going on in your house it might be sensible to get a priority switch even for 16A.

There's very little difference in cost and labour running a 32A or a 16A cable. If it's only a couple of metres the difference in material costs would be only a few Euro.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

You only really need the priority switch for 32A if you have an electric shower or some other high current device, an induction hob maybe, or if the EVSE doesn't have it built in like the Zappi for instance. If you already have a lot going on in your house it might be sensible to get a priority switch even for 16A.

There's very little difference in cost and labour running a 32A or a 16A cable. If it's only a couple of metres the difference in material costs would be only a few Euro.

Thanks, so high level:

--> Electrician work for install of 16 amp or 32 amp charger is more a less the same work involved and could be a few hundred? (then have to add the cost of buying the actual charge point too)

--> Electrician work for install of external weatherproof socket would be around 100 and is not as tricky as above

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks, so high level:

--> Electrician work for install of 16 amp or 32 amp charger is more a less the same work involved and could be a few hundred? (then have to add the cost of buying the actual charge point too)

--> Electrician work for install of external weatherproof socket would be around 100 and is not as tricky as above

Not really installing a 16a unit would most likely not require a Priority unit whereas installing a 32a unit would most likely require one

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

Not really installing a 16a unit would most likely not require a Priority unit whereas installing a 32a unit would most likely require one

Ah ok. Thank you. But I suppose all this depends on the electrician that comes to do the job and what he or she thinks about it........ if I can ever bloody get one
What would be the price difference in Priority V no priority ?

TheChizler

Do you have any high power appliances? Like an electric shower or induction hob?

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

Do you have any high power appliances? Like an electric shower or induction hob?

Have an electric shower but hasn’t been used in a year I’d say. It’s in a spare room and rarely used.

The main shower we use is not electric, think it’s called a pump/power shower, decent power in it. Would this affect things?

We have no induction hob.

TheChizler

The electric shower would require a priority switch all right, or an EVSE with built-in limiter. Power shower wouldn't be a huge draw.

The socket is probably your easiest option, and it saves having to get an electrician out of you wanted to bring your EVSE with you when you leave.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

The electric shower would require a priority switch all right, or an EVSE with built-in limiter. Power shower wouldn't be a huge draw.

The socket is probably your easiest option, and it saves having to get an electrician out of you wanted to bring your EVSE with you when you leave.

Thanks !!

What do you think of this scenario posted by a boards user from another thread:


“Get the electrician to install a 16 amp camping socket outside like so..[url] https://www.seaflo-uk.com/16-amp-plug-and-socket-cable-hook-up-ip44-waterproof-motorhome-caravan-camping-10043-p.asp [/url]

get the 16 amp charger, and small length of wire and attach the plug to it. Screw charger unit to wall beside the socket, when you move house unplug and unscrew and bring it with you.

No need for priority switches, if its 16 amp.”

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks !!

What do you think of this scenario posted by a boards user from another thread:


“Get the electrician to install a 16 amp camping socket outside like so.. https://www.seaflo-uk.com/16-amp-plug-and-socket-cable-hook-up-ip44-waterproof-motorhome-caravan-camping-10043-p.asp

get the 16 amp charger, and small length of wire and attach the plug to it. Screw charger unit to wall beside the socket, when you move house unplug and unscrew and bring it with you.

No need for priority switches, if its 16 amp.”

Bump

xl500

obi604 wrote: »

Bump

why would you do that if you are moving soon you would be leaving a 16a socket outside not much use to anyone wheras a normal outdoor 13a socket could be used by new people for any number of uses

If you have Granny Cable simplest option is to install outdoor socket and use it until you move

obi604

xl500 wrote: »

why would you do that if you are moving soon you would be leaving a 16a socket outside not much use to anyone wheras a normal outdoor 13a socket could be used by new people for any number of uses

If you have Granny Cable simplest option is to install outdoor socket and use it until you move

Just the handy-ness factor, tethered cable, plug it in and job done. As opposed to messing with the granny cable.

TheChizler

obi604 wrote: »

Just the handy-ness factor, tethered cable, plug it in and job done. As opposed to messing with the granny cable.

You still would have to wire a plug to your EVSE in that case. I'm not sure if that's technically allowed. All it would save you over wiring directly is calling an electrician to disconnect the EVSE when you leave.

What messing is there with plugging in a Granny cable? You could potentially leave it permanently plugged into the wall socket.

obi604

I have contacted a few electricians, some are saying I don't need a priority switch for a 16 amp charger, is this true?

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

You still would have to wire a plug to your EVSE in that case. I'm not sure if that's technically allowed. All it would save you over wiring directly is calling an electrician to disconnect the EVSE when you leave.

What messing is there with plugging in a Granny cable? You could potentially leave it permanently plugged into the wall socket.

I suppose your right. there isnt really much messing, just seems the tethered is very handy and gives a faster charge etc.

if I leave in, would need a way to lock it and maybe cover the 'transformer' box.

TheChizler

obi604 wrote: »

I have contacted a few electricians, some are saying I don't need a priority switch for a 16 amp charger, is this true?

Running a 10 kW shower and charging your car at the same time would put you up at around 60 A out of your total import capacity of 64 A, wouldn't take much else to put you over. Probably wouldn't cause anything to go boom (immediately) but it's kind of cutting it fine IMO.

obi604 wrote: »

I suppose your right. there isnt really much messing, just seems the tethered is very handy and gives a faster charge etc.

if I leave in, would need a way to lock it and maybe cover the 'transformer' box.

Tethered absolutely is very handy but I'm struggling to see what advantage using your 16 A socket would bring

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

Running a 10 kW shower and charging your car at the same time would put you up at around 60 A out of your total import capacity of 64 A, wouldn't take much else to put you over. Probably wouldn't cause anything to go boom (immediately) but it's kind of cutting it fine IMO.

Is this in regard to the 16 amp charger scenario?

TheChizler

obi604 wrote: »

Is this in regard to the 16 amp charger scenario?

Yes, should have quoted you sorry.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

Running a 10 kW shower and charging your car at the same time would put you up at around 60 A out of your total import capacity of 64 A, wouldn't take much else to put you over. Probably wouldn't cause anything to go boom (immediately) but it's kind of cutting it fine IMO.



Tethered absolutely is very handy but I'm struggling to see what advantage using your 16 A socket would bring

16 A tethered will charge the car quicker. Not sure on how much quicker versus the granny cable. Any thoughts? my car is 24kw and battery health is at 76% so presume this is 18 kw that has to be charged, but most likely less as will never be down to zero etc

And the fact that it will probably take 30 seconds longer to connect the granny cable (a first world problems at its highest ) ))

TheChizler

obi604 wrote: »

16 A tethered will charge the car quicker. Not sure on how much quicker versus the granny cable. Any thoughts? my car is 24kw and battery health is at 76% so presume this is 18 kw that has to be charged, but most likely less as will never be down to zero etc

And the fact that it will probably take 30 seconds longer to connect the granny cable (a first world problems at its highest ) ))

1.6 times faster potentially if the granny cable maxes out at 10 A.

If you're going with the grant I wouldn't be sure if the outdoor 16 A socket is acceptable in the path between the distribution board and the EVSE, the installation has to be certified by a REC. You would have to check with the electrician.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

1.6 times faster potentially if the granny cable maxes out at 10 A.

If you're going with the grant I wouldn't be sure if the outdoor 16 A socket is acceptable in the path between the distribution board and the EVSE, the installation has to be certified by a REC. You would have to check with the electrician.

D’oh

Noted. Again, Thank you.

obi604

TheChizler wrote: »

1.6 times faster potentially if the granny cable maxes out at 10 A.

If you're going with the grant I wouldn't be sure if the outdoor 16 A socket is acceptable in the path between the distribution board and the EVSE, the installation has to be certified by a REC. You would have to check with the electrician.

Another stupid question. Let’s say there was NO outdoor 16 A socket involved and the cabling was done directly to the EVSE car charger - at the time I moved, could the EVSE be removed and replaced with a standard 3 pin external socket? (Or does the cabling ‘fit’)

DublinDilbert

obi604 wrote: »

Another stupid question. Let’s say there was NO outdoor 16 A socket involved and the cabling was done directly to the EVSE car charger - at the time I moved, could the EVSE be removed and replaced with a standard 3 pin external socket? (Or does the cabling ‘fit’)

Yes. If he runs 2.5 sq from the board (assuming a short run), fit 20a rcbo in the board, you could just do a straight swap of the charger for an outdoor socket.

obi604

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Yes. If he runs 2.5 sq from the board (assuming a short run), fit 20a rcbo in the board, you could just do a straight swap of the charger for an outdoor socket.

Thank you!