What causes disadvantage

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

Eric Cartman

an underinvestment in infrastructure creates an inability to attract modern industry creates a lack of jobs , vicious cycle.

Its why roads and broadband, fast track planning and electricity pylons are more important than ever to railroad in, ignore the objections and try save rural villages.

One eyed Jack

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

ancapailldorcha

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

Well, a once-every-so-often sporting success story is hardly the basis for a sound economy.

Maybe this particular area isn't doing too badly but we're beginning to see a complete hollowing out of accessible jobs which offered decent wages such as manufacturing while better paid jobs tend to be concentrated in cities. I think investments such as better broadband might help people work from home more often which would help the environment and save time and money on commuting.

Unemployment is in or around 5% at the moment how come certain areas are such outliners in a small county like Ireland.

walshb

So many angles to look at. But in a nutshell, it is to do with the demographics of an area. Number of people and types of people...

walshb

walshb wrote: »

So many angles to look at. But in a nutshell, it is to do with the demographics of an area. Number of people and types of people...

So a small town can end up having a different population that the sourounding areas seems unlikely.

mcmoustache

mariaalice wrote: »

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

There are feck all jobs there. The jobs are in the cities. That's the long and short of it. Eric has offered some useful solutions in his post that would help solve this problem.

Eric Cartman

Councils should do a deal for a 5 year break from corporate rates for any company employing more than 50 staff to open in a rural community. We need to attract businesses that have more than a handful of staff to these areas.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

mariaalice wrote: »

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

I’m not sure about the historical bit. Parts of south Tipp seemed prosperous enough when I visited as a child. 30 odd years ago now.

It looks to me like the last recession wiped out the Irish midlands and didn’t really recover.

Lux23

Those with the get up and go tend to leave and get jobs elsewhere. Those that stay behind either have family commitments or they are handed a job in a family business. The rest aren't neccessarily lazy, but they don't have the drive to go and build themselves a career or to move to a bigger city with more oppourtunties. You will meet these people in every small town or rural location. Slackers.

Ulysses Gaze

mariaalice wrote: »

So a school principle was on RTE radio morning Ireland, saying that Tipperary town is a very disadvantaged area something like 20% unemployment for males and 30% for women. How does one area in a small country like Ireland end up like that?

Is it a geographical location issue?

Is it Historical?

Mindset

Overheal

Vantages.

LirW

mariaalice wrote: »

Unemployment is in or around 5% at the moment how come certain areas are such outliners in a small county like Ireland.

Geography comes into play with a healthy amount of inbreeding. I live in an area where a few villages and small towns are considered "disadvantaged". A lot has to do with location here. Dublin is too far away for a sustainable commute because it's 30 minutes to the closest motorway. The bigger surrounding towns don't provide enough low-skilled jobs and everyone who is educated leaves. If you're lucky enough to score work in Wexford town you consider moving but the south-east has little stability going for skilled people. Waterford is also too far away and while Kilkenny is reached within an hour, a lot of people don't bother driving that distance for a minimum wage because they are literally better off on social welfare.
The two "big" employers in the area are a meat processing plant and a plastic manufacturer. Not particularly attractive to anyone who trained in something.

So whoever stays has a crap hand dealt, many have family commitments or moving is too expensive. People with money don't move into villages but stay in the ribbon developments because it's more private. So you're left with a good percentage of the bottom that have issues, are tied to the area, are too cozy in their small world between the post office and the pub.

Thelonious Monk

One off housing. It has so much to answer for in Ireland, but that's how people wanna live so what you gonna do.

pinkyeye

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

This has to be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on here.

Nowhere in the country is more at an advantage or disadvantage than anywhere else in the country in terms of unemployment????

Have you been on jobs.ie lately. If not, go on there and tell me how many jobs are advertised in Tipperary in comparison to elsewhere.

This view has to come from someone who has never lived outside their home town. :rolleyes:

odyssey06

Are there no 'disadvantaged' areas in Dublin?

Seems like the phenomenon of those with 'get up and go' fleeing an area can happen urban and rural.

Eric Cartman

odyssey06 wrote: »

Are there no 'disadvantaged' areas in Dublin?

Seems like the phenomenon of those with 'get up and go' fleeing an area can happen urban and rural.

theres a big difference between just not a lot of work around as with many small villages and massive intergenerational problems of drugs, violent crime and not wanting to work that you see in cities.

Always Tired

mariaalice wrote: »

Unemployment is in or around 5% at the moment how come certain areas are such outliners in a small county like Ireland.

Part of the problem is people hear this 'full employment' nonsense and then they think the unemployment problem is solved and it's forgotten about.

People hear 'we are at full employment' and then they figure anyone not in work has only themselves to blame. If you point out the actual stats in your area, show them the lack of jobs on job sites in the area, the lack of public transport, they shrug and go 'so move then.' Which isn't that simple for some.

I live in Donegal which was about 18% 2 years ago, would be much higher except all the young people in their 20s and 30s have emigrated. I've been on Jobpath twice, a total of 18 months and not one job referall. Not one. and i have a degree and experience. there's just no work besides takeaways and hotels and pubs, a few shops.

but people in work literally don't care about the unemployed, they have nothing but disdain for them and think they are all there by choice. but when you are in an unemployment black spot and can't afford a car because you are unemployed, can't afford to relocate bc you are unemployed or have family/mortgage commitments, you are in a major Catch 22.

One eyed Jack

pinkyeye wrote: »

This has to be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on here.

Nowhere in the country is more at an advantage or disadvantage than anywhere else in the country in terms of unemployment????

Have you been on jobs.ie lately. If not, go on there and tell me how many jobs are advertised in Tipperary in comparison to elsewhere.

This view has to come from someone who has never lived outside their home town. :rolleyes:

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

Always Tired

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

You make no sense whatsoever.

One eyed Jack

Always Tired wrote: »

You make no sense whatsoever.

It’s fairly straightforward - someone looking for investment tries to make out that they deserve investment because some other county gets investment. Ignore all the obvious reasons why other counties get investment, and that statement is correct.

Nobody is going to invest in an area where they won’t see a return on their investment. That’s just bad business. It doesn’t mean any county is at a disadvantage or another county has an advantage, it simply means companies aren’t willing to invest in areas where they aren’t going to see a return on their investment.

splinter65

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s a perception issue.

They’ve just beaten Kilkenny in the hurling All-Ireland final - nobody was complaining about being disadvantaged then. As for their unemployment figures, they aren’t at any more an advantage or a disadvantage than anywhere else in the country.

Tipperary Town most definitely didn’t beat Kilkenny in the All Ireland. I don’t think there’s even a hurling club in Tipp Town.
Where did you get that idea?

splinter65

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

You think there’s equal employment opportunity in Dublin and Tipp Town? Is something wrong with you?

callaway92

splinter65 wrote: »

Tipperary Town most definitely didn’t beat Kilkenny in the All Ireland. I don’t think there’s even a hurling club in Tipp Town.
Where did you get that idea?

Arravale Rovers.

Pretty good too.

splinter65

callaway92 wrote: »

Arravale Rovers.

Pretty good too.

Arravale Rovers definitely didn’t win the All Ireland though. One Eyed Jack says they did. Are any of the Tipp team even playing for Arravale Rovers?

One eyed Jack

splinter65 wrote: »

Arravale Rovers definitely didn’t win the All Ireland though. One Eyed Jack says they did. Are any of the Tipp team even playing for Arravale Rovers?

I didn’t say Tipp town? I thought you were talking about Tipp county as a whole?

The Principal you’re talking about, were they honestly comparing Tipp town to Dublin City? Because there’s probably context there I’m not getting that they could even attempt to make such a comparison

BookNerd

IME too much reliance on one industry.
My home town relied on the local quarry and the local electricity plant for it's jobs.
During the boom there was mass immigration, full employment and plenty of money.
Then the arse fell out of the building trade and the electricity plant was shut down as it relied on unsustainable fuel.

Now the town is in a heap, massive amounts of unemployment, lots of businesses closing, houses sold on the cheap or left vacant and in disrepair. Mass influx of people buying houses to rent them out meaning the class of people living in the area has totally changed which has had a knock on effect on the reputation of the town and the local schools.......

People can't just up and leave because they have mortgages and houses. Younger people will go if they can but the fact the the schools are suffering means their educations and expectations just aren't as high.

It's a sad sight to see, what was once a bustling and busy town and a lovely place to live has turned into a bit of a kip......all in the space of about 20 years.

Meanwhile I live somewhere where there are various types of employment, the owners of the local business come together to push for improvements in infrastructure and amenities. This town struggled in the crash but not as much as other places and it rallied back quite quickly. The high employment means money in the town which means things like a new leisure center, plenty of fundraising for the schools, promotion of the arts, music is huge for kids here, schools have a great reputation and push the kids to achieve.....they grow up expecting to go to college and have a career. In my hometown most just aspire to get a job.

Two towns of similar size and population but they are worlds apart and I thank my lucky stars I ended up in one and not the other for my children's sake.

splinter65

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn’t say Tipp town? I thought you were talking about Tipp county as a whole?

The Principal you’re talking about, were they honestly comparing Tipp town to Dublin City? Because there’s probably context there I’m not getting that they could even attempt to make such a comparison

The principle said Tipp Town is a very disadvantaged area. Your immediate response was that they’ve just won the All Ireland so that’s clearly nonsense.
You clearly know nothing about Irish geography. Tipp Town is an actual urban area not just “ a town in Tipperary” as you seem to think. Tipperary is the largest inland county in Ireland which was large enough to be divided into 2 ridings until quite recently.
What you’ve said in effect is that as the Dublin football team have won 4 all Ireland’s in a row that this means that there are no impoverished areas in Dublin.
Your posts are cringe making. Even a cursory google of Tipp Town shows it to be near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A school Principal from Tipp says Tipp is disadvantaged?

In other news, water is wet.

I don’t even have to have moved from beyond my home town to know what Tipp is like for employment. That’s precisely why I can say it’s no different than any other county in Ireland in terms of the advantages and disadvantages it poses for enterprise and employment.

Regarding education, an area is classed as disadvantaged if a certain percentage of its catchment area are medical card holders. I would imagine that’s what the principal is referring to. If a school is in a disadvantaged area it gets support for book rental schemes, etc. If it’s not in a disadvantaged area and wants a book rental scheme, then it’s up to the school and parents to finance.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

The principle said Tipp Town is a very disadvantaged area. Your immediate response was that they’ve just won the All Ireland so that’s clearly nonsense.
You clearly know nothing about Irish geography. Tipp Town is an actual urban area not just “ a town in Tipperary” as you seem to think. Tipperary is the largest inland county in Ireland which was large enough to be divided into 2 ridings until quite recently.
What you’ve said in effect is that as the Dublin football team have won 4 all Ireland’s in a row that this means that there are no impoverished areas in Dublin.
Your posts are cringe making. Even a cursory google of Tipp Town shows it to be near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland.

That still dose not expalin why a medium to small town in Tipperary ended up as near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland. There has to be historical or other factors . There are lots of small to medium sized towns in Ireland.

Richard Hillman

As touched upon previously, I think there is the same type of Brain drain as you see in low socio economic areas as Dublin.

For towns around Ireland, the true potential of a person is outside of the town and into cities. In areas of Dublin its slightly different in that as soon as they get a well paying job its see-ya-later scumsville.

Its basically a case of why would you want to live here when you can live somewhere better? The unemployed are the leftovers, most bordering unemployable.

One eyed Jack

splinter65 wrote: »

The principle said Tipp Town is a very disadvantaged area. Your immediate response was that they’ve just won the All Ireland so that’s clearly nonsense.
You clearly know nothing about Irish geography. Tipp Town is an actual urban area not just “ a town in Tipperary” as you seem to think. Tipperary is the largest inland county in Ireland which was large enough to be divided into 2 ridings until quite recently.
What you’ve said in effect is that as the Dublin football team have won 4 all Ireland’s in a row that this means that there are no impoverished areas in Dublin.
Your posts are cringe making. Even a cursory google of Tipp Town shows it to be near the top of economically disadvantaged urban areas in Ireland.

You’re right, I missed the “town” bit in the opening post. It’s still nonsense to suggest that Tipp town is any less disadvantaged than anywhere else in the country. My initial response was a joke in response to what I figured was an effort to complain about the lack of investment in the area. I later made the point that companies aren’t going to invest in an area where they aren’t going to see a return on their investment.

Gregor Samsa

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nobody is going to invest in an area where they won’t see a return on their investment. That’s just bad business. It doesn’t mean any county is at a disadvantage or another county has an advantage, it simply means companies aren’t willing to invest in areas where they aren’t going to see a return on their investment.

You seem to be denying the common understanding of the words "advantage" and "disadvantage".

An area that can provide a greater return on investment has an advantage over an area that will provide a lesser return.

An area that provides a lesser rerun on investment has a disadvantage over an area that will provide a greater return.

So your answer to the question "what causes disadvantage?" is "poor return on investment". And that's a perfectly valid (if possibly incomplete) answer.

The next logical question, of course, is why do some areas offer a better return on investment than others...

One eyed Jack

phutyle wrote: »

You seem to be denying the common understanding of the words "advantage" and "disadvantage".

An area that can provide a greater return on investment has an advantage over an area that will provide a lesser return.

An area that provides a lesser rerun on investment has a disadvantage over an area that will provide a greater return.

So your answer to the question "what causes disadvantage?" is "poor return on investment". And that's a perfectly valid (if possibly incomplete) answer.

The next logical question, of course, is why do some areas offer a better return on investment than others...

I was more coming at it from the angle of companies being unwilling to invest in or locate in areas where I suppose as you would say they would be at a disadvantage over locating in another area which may offer them greater opportunities for a return on their investment. What advantages or disadvantages those are will depend upon the type of industry or services provided (plenty of areas in Tipp attract tourists for example), but if councillors in Tipp town are anything like the closed shop that are councillors in towns like Nenagh, then they’re unlikely to see any investment any time soon and companies will be more likely to locate in cities like Limerick and Cork who are trying to attract investment which will generate employment in those areas instead.

YFlyer

mcmoustache wrote: »

There are feck all jobs there. The jobs are in the cities. That's the long and short of it. Eric has offered some useful solutions in his post that would help solve this problem.

They can get the train from Limerick Junction to Limerick City to the jobs.

Sleepy

Primarily? Negligent parents.

If you want your kids to have a shot at life you either need to raise them somewhere they have employment opportunities or raise them with enough focus on their education and work ethic that they can find work outside of the two horse village you raised them in.

Enough parents not doing that and you end up with these "disadvantaged areas" full of cradle to grave welfare recipients.

James Brown

Sleepy wrote: »

Primarily? Negligent parents.

If you want your kids to have a shot at life you either need to raise them somewhere they have employment opportunities or raise them with enough focus on their education and work ethic that they can find work outside of the two horse village you raised them in.

Enough parents not doing that and you end up with these "disadvantaged areas" full of cradle to grave welfare recipients.

So if you've a minimum or low wage job and you're living in HAP or a disadvantaged council area what would you do? I would like to know how you'd avoid being 'negligent'.

vriesmays

Tipp Town is a kip, why would a factory move there.

Sleepy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So if you've a minimum or low wage job and you're living in HAP or a disadvantaged council area what would you do? I would like to know how you'd avoid being 'negligent'.

Haven't had a minimum wage since childhood but let's give it a go:

As a singleton? Quite easy, avail of BTEA and upskill or start a trade apprenticeship. Move to wherever the work is if necessary and grind out the first few years until fully qualified and earning a decent wage.

As a parent? Try the above while ensuring my kids are in school every day, fed, clothed and having had a good nights sleep so they can focus on their education. See where their interests and talents lie and get them focused towards further education / a trade they might be suitable for.

TBH, once secure in a council tenancy, I don't know that my week-to-week disposable income from minimum wage or social welfare would be that different to where it was when my kids were younger and I was spending half my salary on rent. I remember calculating it at the time that unless a job paid more than 45k or so a year (the post is somewhere on boards) I'd be better off on welfare. If anything, with how rents have risen and with increases in welfare rates, I suspect that figure would be closer to 50k these days.

James Brown

Sleepy wrote: »

Haven't had a minimum wage since childhood but let's give it a go:

As a singleton? Quite easy, avail of BTEA and upskill or start a trade apprenticeship. Move to wherever the work is if necessary and grind out the first few years until fully qualified and earning a decent wage.

As a parent? Try the above while ensuring my kids are in school every day, fed, clothed and having had a good nights sleep so they can focus on their education. See where their interests and talents lie and get them focused towards further education / a trade they might be suitable for.

TBH, once secure in a council tenancy, I don't know that my week-to-week disposable income from minimum wage or social welfare would be that different to where it was when my kids were younger and I was spending half my salary on rent. I remember calculating it at the time that unless a job paid more than 45k or so a year (the post is somewhere on boards) I'd be better off on welfare. If anything, with how rents have risen and with increases in welfare rates, I suspect that figure would be closer to 50k these days.

Grand plans but circumstances can get in the way. It's handy enough to get a course in something low level if you have the time and ability. Trades are next to impossible to get unless you've an in.
There are a lot of genuine people out there who work and get by as best they can who would be in such areas. I know people from wealthy families who breeze through life. It's easier to access third level when practically everyone you know has gone and your school and friends expect you to go. Not knocking it, just it's a lot easier to do certain things if you are in the right environment to begin with.
You go to a ****ty school with drunk or disinterested teachers it's a different story. Third level or any college mightn't even occur to you.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Grand plans but circumstances can get in the way. It's handy enough to get a course in something low level if you have the time and ability. Trades are next to impossible to get unless you've an in.
There are a lot of genuine people out there who work and get by as best they can who would be in such areas. I know people from wealthy families who breeze through life. It's easier to access third level when practically everyone you know has gone and your school and friends expect you to go. Not knocking it, just it's a lot easier to do certain things if you are in the right environment to begin with.
You go to a ****ty school with drunk or disinterested teachers it's a different story. Third level or any college mightn't even occur to you.

So are you saying in disadvantaged areas in 2019 thare are drunk and disinterred teachers? there are no school meal programs before and after school child care, community childcare, family resources centers, family support workers, DARE and HERE schemes for third level enhanced third level grants? and that is just for starters.

steddyeddy

mariaalice wrote: »

So are you saying in disadvantaged areas in 2019 thare are drunk and disinterred teachers? there are no school meal programs before and after school child care, community childcare, family resources centers, family support workers, DARE and HERE schemes for third level enhanced third level grants? and that is just for starters.

Have you attended a school in a disadvantaged area M?

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Have you attended a school in a disadvantaged area M?

No, but the post is a gross insult to teachers and implies that teachers in deis schools are of poor quality and uninterested in their job.

LoughNeagh2017

I live a 5 minutes drive from the hub of manufacturing in Ulster yet I am unemployed because employers don't like employing socially awkward Autists yet they probably donate money to Autism and mental health charities, it's a sordid little world. There was a man around 40 in the unemployment course that had worked only a few months in his life.

LoughNeagh2017

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

I live a 5 minutes drive from the hub of manufacturing in Ulster yet I am unemployed because employers don't like employing socially awkward Autists yet they probably donate money to Autism and mental health charities, it's a sordid little world. There was a man around 40 in the unemployment course that had worked only a few months in his life.

There are schemes to support peole who would not do well in interviews to get employment if you have a diagnosed condition of some sort. I know that dose not work for everyone though.

pinkyeye

mariaalice wrote: »

So are you saying in disadvantaged areas in 2019 thare are drunk and disinterred teachers? there are no school meal programs before and after school child care, community childcare, family resources centers, family support workers, DARE and HERE schemes for third level enhanced third level grants? and that is just for starters.

Are you living in the UK mariaalice? Because there's no school meal program in Ireland??

Beginning to wonder about your posts, have to be honest, I think you're a BOT.

pinkyeye

pinkyeye wrote: »

Are you living in the UK mariaalice? Because there's no school meal program in Ireland??

Beginning to wonder about your posts, have to be honest, I think you're a BOT.

In deis schools they can apply for a grant for a school meal program.

One eyed Jack

pinkyeye wrote: »

Are you living in the UK mariaalice? Because there's no school meal program in Ireland??

Beginning to wonder about your posts, have to be honest, I think you're a BOT.

School Meals Programme


Is there maybe something else you’re thinking of?

Sleepy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Grand plans but circumstances can get in the way. It's handy enough to get a course in something low level if you have the time and ability. Trades are next to impossible to get unless you've an in.
There are a lot of genuine people out there who work and get by as best they can who would be in such areas. I know people from wealthy families who breeze through life. It's easier to access third level when practically everyone you know has gone and your school and friends expect you to go. Not knocking it, just it's a lot easier to do certain things if you are in the right environment to begin with.
You go to a ****ty school with drunk or disinterested teachers it's a different story. Third level or any college mightn't even occur to you.

Plenty of my friends and colleagues throughout my career grew up in so called disadvantaged areas. My wife was literally born on Sheriff Street in the early 80's. None had much money growing up but all "got out". Some did it via third level colleges but others did trades, on-the-job training or professional exams (ATI, Comptia, MS exams etc.) etc.

All had one thing in common: parents that encouraged and prioritised their education and instilled a work ethic in them.

So that's my answer. Able bodied young people who get "stuck" becoming long-term unemployed in deprived areas are those whose parents didn't do this. The parents are to blame.

Sure, middle-class kids have it easier. I certainly had an easier path to a white collar job than many others having parents who had clerical (and later managerial) positions and who supported by education by encouraging us to read, making sure our homework was done, shelled out for grinds when I got a crap French teacher for leaving cert etc.

The world is never going to be a perfectly level playing field: there'll always be those who win the genetic lottery and are born into extreme wealth or with a rare, monetisable, talent.

A motivated parent can, however, virtually ensure that their child doesn't end up at the bottom of society even if that's where they've started. There are myriads of social supports for them, education in Ireland is (by international standards at least) high quality and relatively cheap (again, with supports such as the back to school allowance available for those on low incomes/social welfare). From speaking with friends and family who are teachers the "drunk or disinterested teachers" of our educational youth are extremely rare nowadays and DEIS schools can be as likely to have great teachers as any other. Either way: it's not the teachers, or the school, that determines a child's educational success. It's their parents.

James Brown

mariaalice wrote: »

So are you saying in disadvantaged areas in 2019 thare are drunk and disinterred teachers? there are no school meal programs before and after school child care, community childcare, family resources centers, family support workers, DARE and HERE schemes for third level enhanced third level grants? and that is just for starters.

I'm not currently in Primary or secondary school so I can't say.
I thought we were talking about adults today and why many are where they are.

mariaalice wrote: »

No, but the post is a gross insult to teachers and implies that teachers in deis schools are of poor quality and uninterested in their job.

It most certainly is not and does not. I've seen it myself. I left out the beatings mind. You are jumping ahead. School kids of today aren't currently raising families in disadvantages areas, (mostly not).