ESB incomer

maxamillius

Hi Guys,

Just back from looking at a house my sister bought. Lot of work to be done but one thing I noticed is that the ESB incomer is coming through tohe top of a door frame and into the cutout and metre which is mounted in a cabinet in the kitchen.

Very surprised the ESB would do something like this, surely this is something they should fix FOC, no?

maxamillius

Pics attached

Portsalon

maxamillius wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Just back from looking at a house my sister bought. Lot of work to be done but one thing I noticed is that the ESB incomer is coming through tohe top of a door frame and into the cutout and metre which is mounted in a cabinet in the kitchen.

Very surprised the ESB would do something like this, surely this is something they should fix FOC, no?

If it ain't broke then why should they fix it, FOC or otherwise?

Stoner

As you know the best bet is to have the meter moved outside where they can read it.
They may facilitate with that, but not if it's to a location indoors that they cant get to.

The new 16.sq.mm from your board to the meter location
will be your responsibility though.

maxamillius

Portsalon wrote: »

If it ain't broke then why should they fix it, FOC or otherwise?

Because it looks like absolutely terrible workmanship and it’s the ESBs cable not the customers

maxamillius

Stoner wrote: »

As you know the best bet is to have the meter moved outside where they can read it.
They may facilitate with that, but not if it's to a location indoors that they cant get to.

The new 16.sq.mm from your board to the meter location
will be your responsibility though.

Agreed, would be much better suited in a metre cabinet outside, if you look at the attached pics of outside you can see the incomer coming down the wall, if the metre cabinet was to be situated on the side wall nearer the front of the house are they responsible for getting there cable to the cabinet? Presume they wouldn’t clip it along the wall, it would need to go to ground and then into a duct and back up into the cabinet?

punisher5112

That's how it was done back in the day.....

Sure ESb dude added an extra socket in my grandad house which bypassed the board.....

Still there to this day.. nobody there though.

maxamillius

Outside pics

maxamillius

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's how it was done back in the day.....

Sure ESb dude added an extra socket in my grandad house which bypassed the board.....

Still there to this day.. nobody there though.

Yep I suspected that’s how it was done alright but surely with the push on new regulations etc they should be accountable for fixing stuff like this?

punisher5112

maxamillius wrote: »

Yep I suspected that’s how it was done alright but surely with the push on new regulations etc they should be accountable for fixing stuff like this?

Thing is it was ok so until major refurb they will state it's fine....

Would the board be old screw fuse or MCB?

maxamillius

punisher5112 wrote: »

Thing is it was ok so until major refurb they will state it's fine....

Would the board be old screw fuse or MCB?

Board looks like it was changed last year, it’s now MCBs

If she’s to put a metre cabinet on the external wall, are they responsible for getting there cable to it? Presumably it would need to go into ducting?

punisher5112

maxamillius wrote: »

Board looks like it was changed last year, it’s now MCBs

If she’s to put a metre cabinet on the external wall, are they responsible for getting there cable to it? Presumably it would need to go into ducting?

Would be a good time if possible to put meter outside of suits... Best place for it and leaves things tidier inside...

Ducting should be fine once electrical standard.

I'm not 100% on if they would charge or not and it's possible they will.

maxamillius

Cheers for the replys, just thought it looked crap and said I’d see what insight everyone had!!

EHP

The ESB will most likely charge for moving there meters and will run the cable down the external of the wall into the new meter cabinet outside if you want. The new cabinet can also be a surface cabinet if needed, best request a site visit from one of there engineers and they'll advise you on what needs to be done for them to move the meters.

meercat

maxamillius wrote: »

Board looks like it was changed last year, it’s now MCBs

If she’s to put a metre cabinet on the external wall, are they responsible for getting there cable to it? Presumably it would need to go into ducting?

If the board was recently changed then new tails should be connected into the meter
a certificate is required for this
Pic 3 indicates this is not done
This would be a more immediate concern

(Just noticed she recently bought it but my concern still stands)

Steve

I have no words.

Sweet mother of Jeebus.

I hope the black stuff isn't mold - meaning the installation is damp on top of the trainwreck it already is..

Sorry, that's not helpful OP, I would not feel safe in that house.

Tell me how

Steve wrote: »

I have no words.

Sweet mother of Jeebus.

I hope the black stuff isn't mold - meaning the installation is damp on top of the trainwreck it already is..

Sorry, that's not helpful OP, I would not feel safe in that house.

That might be an angle to approach the ESB with.
It's not a good installation, they don't have easy access to meter, you're willing to do preparatory work for meter in new location. Would mean cutting tales for them instead of running new cable from supply.
Be better for everyone involved.

Might be worth approaching local office for a chat.

When were the pictures taken? Did you say an MCB board had been fitted?

maxamillius

Tell me how wrote: »

That might be an angle to approach the ESB with.
It's not a good installation, they don't have easy access to meter, you're willing to do preparatory work for meter in new location. Would mean cutting tales for them instead of running new cable from supply.
Be better for everyone involved.

Might be worth approaching local office for a chat.

When were the pictures taken? Did you say an MCB board had been fitted?

Took pics the other night, there’s a small board beside the metre with breakers in it. To be fair to house needs a rewire either way but she only noticed the esb incomer the other night.

I’ll give the esb a call and request a site visit next week

maxamillius

EHP wrote: »

The ESB will most likely charge for moving there meters and will run the cable down the external of the wall into the new meter cabinet outside if you want. The new cabinet can also be a surface cabinet if needed, best request a site visit from one of there engineers and they'll advise you on what needs to be done for them to move the meters.

That’s good to know, having to recess the cabinet on the external wall would be a major pain in the...

meercat

maxamillius wrote: »

Took pics the other night, there’s a small board beside the metre with breakers in it. To be fair to house needs a rewire either way but she only noticed the esb incomer the other night.

I’ll give the esb a call and request a site visit next week

It’s unlikely esbn will do anything for you. If you want the service repositioned or altered then there will be a charge. They will require a certificate from a rec to do so. They possibly will serve you with a notice of potential hazard for the current installation. My advice is to get a rec out beforehand

maxamillius

meercat wrote: »

It’s unlikely esbn will do anything for you. If you want the service repositioned or altered then there will be a charge. They will require a certificate from a rec to do so. They possibly will serve you with a notice of potential hazard for the current installation. My advice is to get a rec out beforehand

Surely though they need to disconnect and move there part? REC is only responsible for removing tails?

Tell me how

maxamillius wrote: »

Surely though they need to disconnect and move there part? REC is only responsible for removing tails?

I think the poster is implying they will not do anything without payment.

punisher5112

I wonder if one were to want a day/night meter as it's a free installation would the guy do the new installation if it were put outside as it would require the same work pretty much.

TheBully

Esb won’t come out and do anything just because it looks bad, that’s the way it was ran back in the day and that’s the way every older terraced house in the country is still fed! If you want to reposition the meter outside, you will have to mount a box in the wall, and provide a red duct from the bottom right corner of that box to the bottom of your pole! Esb will request a cert from your electrician who prob won’t very the house, my advise is get house rewired, if you intend on putting meter cabinet outside then do that during the rewire and get your Rec to run his cables out to it! if you cannot put cabinet outside, the meter must wait up inside as is but you still need to rewire house!
But ESB will not do anything here FOC

TheBully

punisher5112 wrote: »

I wonder if one were to want a day/night meter as it's a free installation would the guy do the new installation if it were put outside as it would require the same work pretty much.

How is it the same work pretty much?

punisher5112

TheBully wrote: »

How is it the same work pretty much?

Ah cause it is... If it's beside the line coming in and all up to scratch it ain't to difficult....


Not saying it will work but sure you never know....

TheBully

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ah cause it is... If it's beside the line coming in and all up to scratch it ain't to difficult....


Not saying it will work but sure you never know....

The esb won’t but a meter up outside without it being in a cabinet recessed into the wall and ducted to the bottom of the pole! The OPs service is clipped along the house then bundle wired up to the top of the pole! The OP has lots of work to do before they will mount it outside

punisher5112

TheBully wrote: »

The esb won’t but a meter up outside without it being in a cabinet recessed into the wall and ducted to the bottom of the pole! The OPs service is clipped along the house then bundle wired up to the top of the pole! The OP has lots of work to do before they will mount it outside

Well obviously....
Not talking about now.... Of course loads needs doing as has been discussed.

TheBully

punisher5112 wrote: »

Well obviously....
Not talking about now.... Of course loads needs doing as has been discussed.

Esb then need to pull new cables into new cabinet and run them up pole!
All I’m saying that simple getting them to hang a day and night meter will not get them to do that free of charge!

punisher5112

TheBully wrote: »

Esb then need to pull new cables into new cabinet and run them up pole!
All I’m saying that simple getting them to hang a day and night meter will not get them to do that free of charge!

Look I get that but I've seen things done well outside what the plan was and no issues....

Some can be lucky.

TheBully

punisher5112 wrote: »

Look I get that but I've seen things done well outside what the plan was and no issues....

Some can be lucky.

Maybe, but it’s never gonna happen for this guy

Tell me how

TheBully wrote: »

Maybe, but it’s never gonna happen for this guy

How do you know?

The area office are going to call to review. You're probably right, but stranger things have happened. There could be a transformer on a nearby pole that they're due to change and they might say, you know what we'll role it all in to one job as long as customer fulfils their obligations.
You're probably right, but I wouldn't say it's a done deal.

Likely need for a duct to pole is probably biggest issue for OP, as well as house rewire need for new very.

TheBully

Tell me how wrote: »

How do you know?

The area office are going to call to review. You're probably right, but stranger things have happened. There could be a transformer on a nearby pole that they're due to change and they might say, you know what we'll role it all in to one job as long as customer fulfils their obligations.
You're probably right, but I wouldn't say it's a done deal.

Likely need for a duct to pole is probably biggest issue for OP, as well as house rewire need for new very.

For a start they won’t change a transformer unless it’s blown or else extra capacity is needed from the traffo ie. new houses! esb will only relocate meter for a charge!
It sounds to me though that the OP will not be putting a cabinet outside though due to work involved!

Tell me how

TheBully wrote: »

For a start they won’t change a transformer unless it’s blown or else extra capacity is needed from the traffo ie. new houses! esb will only relocate meter for a charge!
It sounds to me though that the OP will not be putting a cabinet outside though due to work involved!

I worked with ESB before, I've seen backs scratched on both sides.

I wouldn't expect then to do it for free, I'd still definitely be having a conversation and seeing what story is.

TheBully

Tell me how wrote: »

I worked with ESB before, I've seen backs scratched on both sides.

I wouldn't expect then to do it for free, I'd still definitely be having a conversation and seeing what story is.

They might clip a new service and tidy it up for free in the upcoming smart meter rollout! But that’s about it, they don’t mind meter being inside if it’s read annually or has a smart meter installed! If the OP is willing to to the prep work to move meter they will charge!

EHP

I've been involved with meter relocations several times. The ESB have never in my experience moved meters for free and will not move them without a cert from a REC. They will allow there cable to run on surface down the outside of the house into either a recessed cabinet or a surface cabinet. If a REC is completing a test for a meter relocation they only need to test the board and one fixed appliance in the dwelling. If the house passed an insulation resistance test, has a good earth reading to the cooker for example, has RCBO for the shower and correct bonding in hot press plus earth bar then a cert for relocation can be issued. The house may not need rewire for this.

maxamillius

Thanks for all the reply’s, the house is absolutely going to be rewired.

Just so I’m clear, does the rewire need to happen before moving the esb incomer? Surely then you are left with no connection to esb so how do you certify?

EHP

maxamillius wrote: »

Thanks for all the reply’s, the house is absolutely going to be rewired.

Just so I’m clear, does the rewire need to happen before moving the esb incomer? Surely then you are left with no connection to esb so how do you certify?

Rewire would happen before the meters are moved you would have a temporary connection from the existing meters until they are moved best bet is get your REC out and they will explain the steps.

TheBully

maxamillius wrote: »

Thanks for all the reply’s, the house is absolutely going to be rewired.

Just so I’m clear, does the rewire need to happen before moving the esb incomer? Surely then you are left with no connection to esb so how do you certify?

You don’t need to have an esb connection to certify, your REC will do his checks dead, earth fault loop, insulation resistance etc!
He esb will more than likely move it before you start your rewire if you chat to the area office but they won’t re connect up without a cert! But my advice is rewire, have your electrician run his new tails out to the new cabinet that you have mounted! Have your end done and that way esb will be in and out in one day otherwise you will be left with no supply on site for duration of works

maxamillius

All makes sense, appreciate the input folks

Risteard81

TheBully wrote: »

Esb won’t come out and do anything just because it looks bad, that’s the way it was ran back in the day and that’s the way every older terraced house in the country is still fed! If you want to reposition the meter outside, you will have to mount a box in the wall, and provide a red duct from the bottom right corner of that box to the bottom of your pole! Esb will request a cert from your electrician who prob won’t very the house, my advise is get house rewired, if you intend on putting meter cabinet outside then do that during the rewire and get your Rec to run his cables out to it! if you cannot put cabinet outside, the meter must wait up inside as is but you still need to rewire house!
But ESB will not do anything here FOC

Wrong. Duct for ESB must enter in bottom LEFT corner.

TheBully

Risteard81 wrote: »

Wrong. Duct for ESB must enter in bottom LEFT corner.

Apologies, you are correct! It’s the bottom left! Jeez

maxamillius

Will they clip down the wall and enter in the top of the cabinet is surface mount?

Running a duct will mean digging up the driveway

TheBully

maxamillius wrote: »

Will they clip down the wall and enter in the top of the cabinet is surface mount?

Running a duct will mean digging up the driveway

The only way they will mount a meter outside is if it’s ducted, they will not go in any other way

TheBully

maxamillius wrote: »

Will they clip down the wall and enter in the top of the cabinet is surface mount?

Running a duct will mean digging up the driveway

Also cabinet cannot be surface mounted, will have to be recessed into wall! If I was you I’d just leave it in the house by sounds of it!!

EHP

TheBully wrote: »

The only way they will mount a meter outside is if it’s ducted, they will not go in any other way

They will run down the wall on surface in existing installations where the cable is already on surface but will only enter on the bottom of the meter cabinet.

EHP

TheBully wrote: »

Also cabinet cannot be surface mounted, will have to be recessed into wall! If I was you I’d just leave it in the house by sounds of it!!

Cabinets can be surface mounted where necessary have to use a cabinet rated to IP54 or higher not 100% on the ip rating but definitely can be surface mounted if needed.

meercat

TheBully wrote: »

Also cabinet cannot be surface mounted, will have to be recessed into wall! If I was you I’d just leave it in the house by sounds of it!!

Esbn will accept a suitable, surface mounted cabinet outside with a gland into the side of the box(near the top corner,if cable is clipped down the wall)

Ehp beat me to it(too slow typing)

TheBully

meercat wrote: »

Esbn will accept a suitable, surface mounted cabinet outside with a gland into the side of the box(near the top corner,if cable is clipped down the wall)

Ehp beat me to it(too slow typing)

Esb will only accept that if the house does not have a cavity

5500

Not to hijack the Ops thread but similar situation with a family member who has an overhead main line running In above a garage door like the OPs, then into the garage where the consumer unit and meter are. They want the main cable moved about 6 inches up as they plan on changing the garage doors, but with the main coming in the top of the frame it might not be possible as ia/dangerous pulling out the old frame and fitting new where the wire is located.

The house was recently rewired and they contacted esb to come out to install a new meter and tails, but the rep on the phone just said whoever called would take a look at the wire coming in.

I think the charge for the tails and meter from esb was €200, but to do what they want would a whole new run of cable have to come from the pole, then to the house, down the wall and in a hole slightly higher or are esb able to reuse the cable in situ which might cut down on the cost ?

maxamillius

You can see the cable coming down in the first pic, clipped to the wall.

If we were to surface mount the cabinet nearer the front of the house they would need to extend or run a new cable from the pole and clip it down the wall id imagine