Minister for Transport buys an EV

unkel

At last some political leadership. Shane Ross, the Minister for Transport, has taken ownership of his Hyundai Kona EV. Fair play to him. Putting money where his mouth is.

Linky from the Irish Times

Not like the Minister for Climate Action and Environment, John Bruton, who drives a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. A petrol car with a bit of electric range. A pathetic choice, exemplifying the lack of understanding, the lack of concern and the lack of intended action from our leaders. Do you agree that's pathetic?

Not as pathetic as this. The Green Party leader, Eamon Ryan, who with his party forced the diesel car onto this country when he formed a coalition with FF back in 2008 because diesels have lower CO2 emissions than petrols. At some point a few years later because of his incentives, Ireland had the highest percentage of diesel cars sold in the world. I am sure he meant well, but it was extremely naive at best. At the time it was well known that diesel causes cancer so this man is indirectly responsible for hundreds, possibly thousands of deaths from cancer in this country. And he still drives.... a diesel :rolleyes:

Atlantic Dawn

Would be interesting getting emissions figures on the difference between Ross keeping his previous car and the emissions of having a brand new car built to replace it. Those figures might make too much sense to publish.

Diesel is death and shouldn't be allowed in any built up area.

Lumen

Was there any government in Europe that didn't promote diesel over petrol for CO2 reduction reasons?

It is naive to think that environmental policy is easy, we can expect to face much more difficult decisions in future.

EVs will barely move the needle on CO2 emissions.

slave1

He can afford it

CalamariFritti

The impact on EVs on co2 emissions is vastly overrated. For what it takes to make a new EV you could drive your old diesel into the ground twice and then some. Your least impact contribution would be just to continue driving whatever you have.

Phileas Frog

I would imagine that he got the car for free.

punisher5112

He gets the 44 bus into work as he believes it's the best thing ever as there is hardly anyone else on it after 10am when he thinks that's a normal time for us working fools....

He is a class a twit.

Odyssey 2005

Give him a rubber medal. Bet he even informed the papers. Serve him better to do his job.

bigroad

Did Hyundai give our minister a good deal?
Will some of the Garda fleet be changing to electric when their finished with the i40 and i30s.

Odyssey 2005

Phileas Frog wrote: »

I would imagine that he got the car for free.

If not free he certainly got all the grant's and incentives to buy it.

Mickeroo

bigroad wrote: »

Did Hyundai give our minister a good deal?
Will some of the Garda fleet be changing to electric when their finished with the i40 and i30s.

They already have one EV in Dublin, an ioniq I think. Token gesture more than anything for now I'm sure, but it's a perfect squad car for the city.

Kramer

I thought he had a Jag? He hardly scrapped that for a Hyundai supermini now did he?
Maybe that's an '89 so he can now afford to keep it on the classic tax?

Would love to see him shoehorned into the back of a Kona with a briefcase or laptop beside him - that would be class .

punisher5112

bigroad wrote: »

Did Hyundai give our minister a good deal?
Will some of the Garda fleet be changing to electric when their finished with the i40 and i30s.

There is a ioniq....

punisher5112

They have a few Prius also. Government ones.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Not like the Minister for Climate Action and Environment, John Bruton, who drives a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. A petrol car with a bit of electric range. A pathetic choice, exemplifying the lack of understanding, the lack of concern and the lack of intended action from our leaders. Do you agree that's pathetic?

Hmmm, pathetic... yes and no.

Ministers do a lot of driving and tight schedules. It’s possible that his ministry/schedule was too risky for a 300km (motorway) EV. We don’t know really and we have to accept that today’s EVs are not suitable for everyone.

Just because it works for Ross doesn’t mean it’ll work for Bruton.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Just because it works for Ross doesn’t mean it’ll work for Bruton.

Kona EV has 450km range. So if either minister ever did say 900km in Ireland in a day (I doubt that very much) even a diesel would need one stop to refuel, same as Hyundai Kona. And I'm sure the ministers, 66 and 70 years old, would need a boys room break every few hours anyway.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

EVs will barely move the needle on CO2 emissions.

All transport electrified will make a huge move on emissions and would reduce the deaths from cancer by the hundreds, even thousands in this small country alone

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Kona EV has 450km range. So if either minister ever did say 900km in Ireland in a day (I doubt that very much) even a diesel would need one stop to refuel, same as Hyundai Kona. And I'm sure the ministers, 66 and 70 years old, would need a boys room break every few hours anyway.

450km.. not on the motorway it doesn’t.

And a petrol refuel is minutes as opposed to the best part of an hour for Kona.

Personally, I wouldn’t want my elected rep or employee sitting for an hour during the day waiting for the car. A ministers schedule just might not allow an hour at the right time of the day for a dinner stop at an Ionity location.

All I’m saying is it’s not black or white. He might have looked into it and decided not yet or you might be right and he picked the wrong car. You simply don’t know.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

All I’m saying is it’s not black or white. He might have looked into it and decided not yet or you might be right and he picked the wrong car. You simply don’t know.

Bruton is a public figure and in charge of this country's action on climate change. If anyone wants to be seen to be taking a big step in the right direction, it is him.

Very black and white to me. I'm sure he could work around having to wait half an hour, sometime even an hour for the car to recharge on the days he does big mileage. Do ministers not have working lunches / dinners all the time? Can he not work from his car (laptop, internet, phone) like many other people?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Very black and white to me. I'm sure he could work around having to wait an hour for the car to recharge once in a while. Do ministers not have working lunches / dinners all the time?

Of course they do, but not at an MSA!

If anything else it should highlight to him that the infrastructure is the problem and hopefully Ross will learn fast now as well and bring it to the cabinet table so at least they are learning from the real world and not just from reading reports.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

If anything else it should highlight to him that the infrastructure is the problem and hopefully Ross will learn fast now as well and bring it to the cabinet table so at least they are learning from the real world and not just from reading reports.

Aye. Leading by example. I've a lot more respect for a leader who clearly knows what he is talking about.

jackofalltrades

unkel wrote: »

Not like the Minister for Climate Action and Environment, John Bruton, who drives a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. A petrol car with a bit of electric range. A pathetic choice, exemplifying the lack of understanding, the lack of concern and the lack of intended action from our leaders. Do you agree that's pathetic?

I think you're being a little harsh on him.
We don't know what his circumstances are.
A PHEV is also the second best option, when it comes to environmentally friendly motoring.
Especially when you take into account that everyone else seems to be driving into the city centre with a diesel, including the leader of the Green Party:rolleyes:.
Although I'm not really surprised by that, all he cares about are lower CO2 emissions, to hell with peoples health.

tom1ie

Eamon Ryan cycles around Dublin doesn’t he? I think he keeps the diesel for traveling around the country.
I agree the Green Party made a bad decision in promoting diesel but a lot of governments done that worldwide.
It would suit them better tackling the agricultural sector and the methane emissions produced that are far worse for global warming, but that would bring them in direct conflict with the meat Barron of Ireland.

Kramer

tom1ie wrote: »

It would suit them better tackling the agricultural sector and the methane emissions produced that are far worse for global warming

How about "tackling" an even worse source of global warming? I mean a far, far worse source, tens of thousands of times worse :eek:.
.
.
.
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US, China, India.

Oh, I forgot, we can't tax the bejaysus out of them .

unkel

I'm harsh but we need to be. We need serious action on climate change and we need it quickly. Not just a few half measures like switching to PHEV. The Minister for climate action and the environment needs to lead by example. At least Minister Ross understood that.

Kramer wrote: »

How about "tackling" an even worse source of global warming? I mean a far, far worse source, tens of thousands of times worse :eek:.
.
.
.
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US, China, India.

China is installing more renewables (wind / solar) every year than the rest of the world combined. They are taking this seriously.

unkel

tom1ie wrote: »

Eamon Ryan cycles around Dublin doesn’t he? I think he keeps the diesel for traveling around the country.

Ah ok, that's fair enough then. Probably better for the environment to keep his car if he only occasionally uses it and only for long distance travel.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

I'm harsh but we need to be. We need serious action on climate change and we need it quickly.

Not wanting to derail the thread & receive my 2nd infraction (got my first for some unknown reason after over 20 years on Boards, here, in the EV forum :eek:), but say we, (Ireland) go 100% carbon neutral tomorrow morning.

What exactly will this achieve? Is it to shame the big CO2 emitters or to be seen as leading by example?
Devil's advocate here but what difference will taxing the living bejaysus out of Paddy, bullying him into veganism & cycling to work in the rain every day, make, while Jeff mines coal in West Virginia & drives home in his V8 F350 dually to a full-hog, backyard barbeque, complete with outdoor electric AC?

Everyone has to do their bit but it's a global issue & we don't really have much influence with, well, anyone really!

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

Not wanting to derail the thread & receive my 2nd infraction (got my first for some unknown reason after over 20 years on Boards, here, in the EV forum :eek:), but say we, (Ireland) go 100% carbon neutral tomorrow morning.

What exactly will this achieve? Is it to shame the big CO2 emitters or to be seen as leading by example?
Devil's advocate here but what difference will taxing the living bejaysus out of Paddy, bullying him into veganism & cycling to work in the rain every day, make, while Jeff mines coal in West Virginia & drives home in his V8 F350 dually to a full-hog, backyard barbeque, complete with outdoor electric AC?

Everyone has to do their bit but it's a global issue & we don't really have much influence with, well, anyone really!

Switching to EV isnt just about global CO2 emissions.

Its also to reduce reliance on imported fossil fuels.
Its also to reduce local emissions on our streets and schools etc.

colm_mcm

punisher5112 wrote: »

There is a ioniq....

I think you get one for free when you buy 1000 i40s!

NIMAN

KCross wrote: »

Switching to EV isnt just about global CO2 emissions.

Its also to reduce reliance on imported fossil fuels.
Its also to reduce local emissions on our streets and schools etc.

I don't think that addressed Kramers question tbh.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

Everyone has to do their bit but it's a global issue & we don't really have much influence with, well, anyone really!

Almost all countries have signed up to reduce our emissions to try bring climate change to a halt. If any country doesn't do it quickly enough, they get penalised.

Ireland is already behind and we will have to pay big fines, from next year iirc

Instead of paying these fines, we should invest in renewable energies at a large scale. Which is probably less expensive than most people think. The Apple fine alone would pay for more than enough off shore wind generation to offset all the electricity we use today. 100% renewable electricity with a good bit to spare

JohnC.

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't think that addressed Kramers question tbh.

The question of "Why bother if there are other worse people" isn't a good question.

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't think that addressed Kramers question tbh.

I know, I wasnt really trying to address his US, China, India debate.

However, in the context of this thread/forum and his question of "if (Ireland) go 100% carbon neutral tomorrow morning... What exactly will this achieve?"

I'm saying it will achieve the two things I outlined so I am answering that question.


I dont have an answer for his "Jeff in West Virginia..." question!

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

Switching to EV isnt just about global CO2 emissions.

Its also to reduce reliance on imported fossil fuels.
Its also to reduce local emissions on our streets and schools etc.

Yep, all for hammering old filthy diesels pouring NOx into our cities & towns, ban them! (we'll have an inevitable congestion charge soon enough anyway).
Nothing worse than driving behind an old heap of junk, replete with freshly minted NCT certificate, absolutely gushing thick acrid black sooty smoke into my windscreen, while I'm desperately reach for the recirculation button on my green, zero emission, electrically powered vehicle's dashboard.

I too am all for more wind generation locally & less imported oil etc. Don't know anyone who isn't being honest - few nimbys here & there possibly.

100% behind recycling, not harming nature etc.

Doing my bit & encouraging others to do likewise, but..........we're a fraction of a fraction of one percent, globally.

I'm often asked this & this "setting a good example" malarkey doesn't wash when the only net effect it will have is increasing taxes for the populus.

Can't quote Norway as an example either as they're sitting on a sovereign wealth fund of trillions & happily exporting nigh on all their expanse of fossil fuels to the rest of Europe while they themselves then claim to be green :rolleyes:.

Genuinely interested in some good retorts I can use, going forward .

ps. ran a PPO vehicle (converted myself) many, many years ago so always erred on the "green" side of things.....so genuinely interested in opinions.

punisher5112

unkel wrote: »

Ah ok, that's fair enough then. Probably better for the environment to keep his car if he only occasionally uses it and only for long distance travel.

Don't forget in the house they have a diesel spewing vw caravelle 2.5 I believe it is. 2003 so that's spewing out a lot of crap.....

To be honest if they wanted change then taxis should all be euro 6 compliant.

Lumen

If you lived in a big country and that country was instantly divided in half, would you have half the responsibility for your own emissions? No, you'd have exactly the same responsibility.

The size of the country you're in makes no difference to the required behaviour change.

Kramer

JohnC. wrote: »

The question of "Why bother if there are other worse people" isn't a good question.

So you're saying it's more a moral issue then, or ideology? Do right because it's the right thing to do basically, even though hypothetically, as I said, us going 100% green tomorrow would have close to zero overall net effect, without the cooperation of the big players.

Can't use that argument I'm afraid - too much like scripture .

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Almost all countries have signed up to reduce our emissions to try bring climate change to a halt. If any country doesn't do it quickly enough, they get penalised.

Who's gonna penalise Donnie or Mr. Jinping?
Are they bothered?

unkel wrote: »

Ireland is already behind and we will have to pay big fines, from next year iirc

Sure nothing new there, pile on another few billion onto the debt pile - everyone knows we're good for it . It's simple. More tax!

unkel wrote: »

Instead of paying these fines, we should invest in renewable energies at a large scale.

No argument from me there. Renewables = good.
We were told diesel was good a decade ago & biofuels were even better! Biodiesel was far greener than fossil diesel, heck we could even grow rape seed so it was 100% carbon neutral & 100% renewable!

How many thousands of tonnes of tyres are we wanting to import to burn in Limerick, to make cement, in the city?

Is that recycling/repurposing or upcycling I wonder?

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

Yep, all for hammering old filthy diesels pouring NOx into our cities & towns, ban them! (we'll have an inevitable congestion charge soon enough anyway).
Nothing worse than driving behind an old heap of junk, replete with freshly minted NCT certificate, absolutely gushing thick acrid black sooty smoke into my windscreen, while I'm desperately reach for the recirculation button on my green, zero emission, electrically powered vehicle's dashboard.

My hand is conditioned to turning on recirc as soon as Im behind any cars or in traffic. When the road ahead is free back on with the fresh air.

Kramer wrote: »

Can't quote Norway as an example either as they're sitting on a sovereign wealth fund of trillions & happily exporting nigh on all their expanse of fossil fuels to the rest of Europe while they themselves then claim to be green :rolleyes:.

I can only agree with you on that one. Norway is oft quoted for everything around EV's. Its a terrible example really as its built on black gold which few (if any) other countries have the wealth to throw at a problem like they do. We certainly dont.

Kramer wrote: »

I'm often asked this & this "setting a good example" malarkey doesn't wash when the only net effect it will have is increasing taxes for the populus.

No country should be setting a good example. Every country should be moving forward together. That was supposed to be the idea of the Paris agreement. US opting out makes it a bit of a joke.

Kramer wrote: »

Genuinely interested in some good retorts I can use, going forward .

Well, the two answers I gave are two you can use surely, and they are not insignificant reasons. They directly affect our health and wealth... two crucial things to everyone so they should understand it!

Phileas Frog

unkel wrote: »

All transport electrified will make a huge move on emissions and would reduce the deaths from cancer by the hundreds, even thousands in this small country alone

Where do we build the nuclear power stations required?

Lumen

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Where do we build the nuclear power stations required?

In France.

The proposed Celtic Interconnector has annual transmission capacity of 6.1 TWh, or about 50 km car per day if all of those were EVs.

Akabusi

There is lots of arguments about the environmental (battery and how the electricity is generated) merits of buying new EVs, however as mentioned previously just for the health benefits they are a godsend over diesels. I cycle up the Quays everyday and can't help but think about the dangerous air that I am breathing in. I find the buses the worst, it only they where dealt with that would be a great start.

Portsalon

unkel wrote: »

Not like the Minister for Climate Action and Environment, John Bruton, who drives a Hyundai Ioniq PHEV.

That would be Bruton Minor rather than Bruton Major. Bruton Minor's first name is Richard.

Portsalon

Lumen wrote: »

In France.

The proposed Celtic Interconnector has annual transmission capacity of 6.1 TWh, or about 50 km car per day if all of those were EVs.

Roughly how many National Childrens Hospitals is it likely to cost?

Lumen

Portsalon wrote: »

Roughly how many National Childrens Hospitals is it likely to cost?

Who knows. Half? Why?

Portsalon

Lumen wrote: »

Who knows. Half? Why?

Because, given that the consumer will end up paying for both, the installation and maintenance costs must be a consideration.

I don't really fancy the idea of giving a blank cheque to ESB Networks.

Lumen

Portsalon wrote: »

Because, given that the consumer will end up paying for both, the installation and maintenance costs must be a consideration.

I don't really fancy the idea of giving a blank cheque to ESB Networks.

The alternative is complete reliance on the UK for imported electricity.

InTheShadows

Good for him I'm sure he can afford one.

Portsalon

Lumen wrote: »

The alternative is complete reliance on the UK for imported electricity.

Sounds good to me. A third world country like the UK will soon be desperate for foreign currency so will be delighted to sell unlimited cheap electricity to us.

Alternatively, we could do a bit of genuine Sinn Feining and generate our own.

InTheShadows

unkel wrote: »

Ah ok, that's fair enough then. Probably better for the environment to keep his car if he only occasionally uses it and only for long distance travel.

He uses a diesel car when bringing stuff back and forth from his allotment in D14. A real climate warrior for sure.

Do as I say not as I do springs to mind.

InTheShadows

Portsalon wrote: »

Sounds good to me. A third world country like the UK will soon be desperate for foreign currency so will be delighted to sell unlimited cheap electricity to us.

Alternatively, we could do a bit of genuine Sinn Feining and generate our own.

The UK is the 6th biggest economy on the planet, how you figure it's a third world country?