HKC Alarm with Home Assistant Integration

SD_DRACULA

I have recently began using Home Assistant to bring in all my smart gadgets into one place but my 10 year old HKC alarm is very dumb

Has anyone here been able to successfully integrate it with Home Assistant so it can be controlled from there?

I have asked an engineer to see what options I have and for my current model I can only add the GSM module no LAN/wifi cards available. Or go for the 1070 panel and I can use Wifi and the HKC app (with a monthly fee of course) to control it - this would give me remote control capability but did not find a way to integrate it with Home Assistant

bk

There is no official way to integrate with Home Assistant, but there are some sort of unofficial ways.

First check out https://konnected.io/, they have two options:
- Actually replaces the panel and just reuse the sensors
- Leave the panel, but detect and interact with the panel. However I assume you have the older 812 panel, same as myself, I think the inputs and outputs are limited on this.

Another poster just a few days ago was able to setup interaction with his newer HKC panel using a Raspberry Pi, see this thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057992464

I think you will be limited by your older panel.

Personally I switched to a DIY Yale Alarm system, which has it's pros and cons, but can interact with HA, etc. I'm happy with it, but it has it's downsides.

SD_DRACULA

bk wrote: »

There is no official way to integrate with Home Assistant, but there are some sort of unofficial ways.

First check out https://konnected.io/, they have two options:
- Actually replaces the panel and just reuse the sensors
- Leave the panel, but detect and interact with the panel. However I assume you have the older 812 panel, same as myself, I think the inputs and outputs are limited on this.

Another poster just a few days ago was able to setup interaction with his newer HKC panel using a Raspberry Pi, see this thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057992464

I think you will be limited by your older panel.

Personally I switched to a DIY Yale Alarm system, which has it's pros and cons, but can interact with HA, etc. I'm happy with it, but it has it's downsides.

I actually came across Konnected myself but did not know that you can run it alongside the old system. And yes I have 8/12 v7.40 Nov10
If you cannot see the status of each sensor (I just have 11 of them standard door/window types) and cannot control it from HA then no point.

Would all of that work if using the new 1070 panel I wonder, got quoted about 400 to replace the panel and keypad

Someone else mentioned relays on another forum also but no idea where to start, quite confident I can do the electrical bit but just need to know how to wire the relays.

bk

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Would all of that work if using the new 1070 panel I wonder, got quoted about 400 to replace the panel and keypad

I'd guess so, seems like it has more options anyway in terms of inputs and outputs. Not that I've tried it myself, so no guarantee.

Though you should be looking for a 10270 panel, it replaced the 1070.

If you wanted to you could skip getting the dual path card, if you plan on using home assistant to monitor and control it instead. Though then perhaps a GSM communicator might be a good idea as a bsackup.

Another option might be a Siemens Vanderbilt system if you can find an installer. It has HA integration, see here:
https://www.home-assistant.io/components/spc/

NOTE: I'm not an installer, just a DIYer with an interest in Home Automation and networking.

SD_DRACULA

I suppose just need to find out if the 812 supports this and that would sort me out:

If your existing system supports it, you may be able to arm & disarm remotely via the Konnected board using a relay and key switch.

bk

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

I suppose just need to find out if the 812 supports this and that would sort me out:

If your existing system supports it, you may be able to arm & disarm remotely via the Konnected board using a relay and key switch.

To be honest, I can't remember exactly why now, but when this was announced, I went and opened up my 812 panel and I think it was missing one of those, so at the time I decided it was a non runner for me.

SD_DRACULA

bk wrote: »

To be honest, I can't remember exactly why now, but when this was announced, I went and opened up my 812 panel and I think it was missing one of those, so at the time I decided it was a non runner for me.

I got this back from the Konnected guys:

You would need a key switch zone for arm/disarm. And you would need a free programmable zone to monitor the armed status of the board. The Interface board would go alongside the other zones.

I'd say the key switch zone doesn't exist due to the age of that panel

SD_DRACULA

Ok I have opened up my panel and found I am using 7 out 8 zones, 1 free which is exactly what is needed to arm/disarm via the relay.
The 8/12 panel also has 4 programmable outputs, two of which are alarm on/off status and arm/disarm status which means I should have everything I need as per the very detailed video below:

https://youtu.be/fcY0dYuBQCo

I'm going to go for the 12 zone kit and see how I get on.
Will report here with findings.

bk

Great, do let us know how it goes.

It would probably help too if you can get a hold of the installation manual. It is against the rules to share it here on boards, but a bit of googlin might turn it up or someone else might share it to you.

Oh and did you find if the 812 has a key switch that allows you to arm/disarm the system?

SD_DRACULA

Just ordered it there and yeah I got in to the engineers menu and you can set a zone to type key so that should be it.
I have the manual in case anyone needs and let's just say HKC themselves were less than helpful.

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Just ordered it there and yeah I got in to the engineers menu and you can set a zone to type key so that should be it.
I have the manual in case anyone needs and let's just say HKC themselves were less than helpful.

Apologies, I've asked this question on another thread but SD_DRACULA I hope you might be able to enlighten me here...

...I'm struggling with the final pieces of my Konnected install with the HKC 10270.
What Output Option do I set for Programmable Outputs 1 & 2 for;
1. check the status of the alarm (armed or disarmed)
2. check if the alarm has been triggered

I'm trying to follow Nate's video on wiring the Interface Panel but just coming up short on this programming piece.

SD_DRACULA

mossmaan wrote: »

Apologies, I've asked this question on another thread but SD_DRACULA I hope you might be able to enlighten me here...

...I'm struggling with the final pieces of my Konnected install with the HKC 10270.
What Output Option do I set for Programmable Outputs 1 & 2 for;
1. check the status of the alarm (armed or disarmed)
2. check if the alarm has been triggered

I'm trying to follow Nate's video on wiring the Interface Panel but just coming up short on this programming piece.

Ok so no idea on the 10270 I don't have it but on my 8/12 board I have pins 3 and 4 (see photo) called Alarm and Arm (alarm status on/off and arm status on/off)
I don't believe you need to program them, they just work as is, you just need to hook them up as the video.

I don't have my Konnected kit just yet so I can't confirm, but other than that you will need to program one free zone as Key type to be able to arm/disarm remotely

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Ok so no idea on the 10270 I don't have it but on my 8/12 board I have pins 3 and 4 (see photo) called Alarm and Arm (alarm status on/off and arm status on/off)
I don't believe you need to program them, they just work as is, you just need to hook them up as the video.

I don't have my Konnected kit just yet so I can't confirm, but other than that you will need to program one free zone as Key type to be able to arm/disarm remotely

I think I'm good for the arm/disarm relay but its checking the status where I'm struggling. I don't have labels like yours, but 2 empty outputs that I need to program - just not sure what options I should choose.
I think I have to post some more before I can attach images....

mossmaan

Here's what mines looks like...
https://imgur.com/MShvLDz
https://imgur.com/kAug5S8

SD_DRACULA

Yeah not sure where exactly but it will be somewhere in the engineer's menu. Mine is totally different so I wouldn't know

SD_DRACULA

I just wired up my Konnected into my existing alarm panel and I see it on HA but I am having an issue, in the instructional video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcY0dYuBQCo&t=1908s) it says to dial the resistance dials all the way counter-clockwise if I have no resistors (which I don’t) but no matter where I turn the dial, it never registers a sensor being closed/open.
Raised a ticket with Konnected, we'll see

@mossmaan, did you have any issues like that?

altor

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

I just wired up my Konnected into my existing alarm panel and I see it on HA but I am having an issue, in the instructional video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcY0dYuBQCo&t=1908s) it says to dial the resistance dials all the way counter-clockwise if I have no resistors (which I don’t) but no matter where I turn the dial, it never registers a sensor being closed/open.
Raised a ticket with Konnected, we'll see

@mossmaan, did you have any issues like that?

How are the zones wired from the alarm to the system?

SD_DRACULA

As you see in the photo

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

I just wired up my Konnected into my existing alarm panel and I see it on HA but I am having an issue, in the instructional video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcY0dYuBQCo&t=1908s) it says to dial the resistance dials all the way counter-clockwise if I have no resistors (which I don’t) but no matter where I turn the dial, it never registers a sensor being closed/open.
Raised a ticket with Konnected, we'll see

@mossmaan, did you have any issues like that?

Yep - pretty sure I had the exact same issue. I had to connect the jumper wire to the -ve side of the alarm panel zone for the Konnected board to show a state change with the sensors.
Mine essentially works in reverse from whats in the video. My potentiometer lights are off and toggle on when I open doors/windows.
I asked a few questions on here and support was really good - https://www.facebook.com/groups/konnected.io/
You should be able to find my post on there

tnegun

I've enabled the serial out on my panel and it's going to a raspberry pi which is running a perl script that interprets the outpit and emails me any events, I had this going to Domoticz a few years back but than install failed and I haven't bothered getting it into openhab yet.

SD_DRACULA

mossmaan wrote: »

Yep - pretty sure I had the exact same issue. I had to connect the jumper wire to the -ve side of the alarm panel zone for the Konnected board to show a state change with the sensors.
Mine essentially works in reverse from whats in the video. My potentiometer lights are off and toggle on when I open doors/windows.
I asked a few questions on here and support was really good - https://www.facebook.com/groups/konnected.io/
You should be able to find my post on there

I don't see any -ve connection on my panel and I tried connecting the pin on the connected board to either black or red cable on the zone input on the HKC and nothing

tnegun

Have a look at this thread too you can DIY a virtual keypad for the panel

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057113381 read through it covers HKC too.

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

I don't see any -ve connection on my panel and I tried connecting the pin on the connected board to either black or red cable on the zone input on the HKC and nothing

Basically I've just connected the jumper wires to the right slot of the two alarm slots on each zone on the panel, turned the potentiometer counter clockwise and then the Konnected board started lighting up when I opened doors.

I used a multi-meter to check the voltage when the doors were opened and closed to make sure it was working

This pic is from last week
https://imgur.com/QQFaXCG

SD_DRACULA

That's exactly what is supposed to happen, turn anti-clockwise all the way except for me it never actually goes on/off when the door is open closed. I tried both cables on each zone, just in case and also no luck.
I did noticed that some zones are joined together, for example both kitchen door and window are on one zone. Don't see why this would affect anyway.
But I did try a single zone like the front door and no joy either so I don't know.
I have 2 connected boards and both do the same

altor

mossmaan wrote: »

Basically I've just connected the jumper wires to the right slot of the two alarm slots on each zone on the panel, turned the potentiometer counter clockwise and then the Konnected board started lighting up when I opened doors.

I used a multi-meter to check the voltage when the doors were opened and closed to make sure it was working

This pic is from last week
https://imgur.com/QQFaXCG

If you activate the system does it show a vibration sensor activating, panic alarm on the keypad or is it just limited to the zones opening?

altor

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

That's exactly what is supposed to happen, turn anti-clockwise all the way except for me it never actually goes on/off when the door is open closed. I tried both cables on each zone, just in case and also no luck.
I did noticed that some zones are joined together, for example both kitchen door and window are on one zone. Don't see why this would affect anyway.
But I did try a single zone like the front door and no joy either so I don't know.
I have 2 connected boards and both do the same

If you disconnect the wires in the zone and put a short across the zone with the cable to the device does that work?
Open side without the cable to see if it registers the zone open.

SD_DRACULA

Basically the alarm works perfectly as is
I was only able to get the remote arm/disarm via the relay to work and the alarm status on/off, nothing else.
Some zones are a few sensors in series I guess,
Not sure why the multiple ones pretty much have 0v when closed instead of 3.3 like the rest.

This is my set up.

Zone 1 - single sensor - 3.3v closed / 4.5v open
Zone 2 - single sensor - 3.3v closed / 4.5v open
Zone 3 - single sensor - 3.3v closed / 4.5v open
Zone 4 - 3 sensors - 0.1v closed / 6.9v open
Zone 5 - single sensor - 3.3v closed / 4.5v open
Zone 6 - 2 sensors - 0.1v closed / 6.9v open
Zone 7 - 2 sensors - 0.1v closed / 6.9v open
Zone 8 - Konnected relay to arm/disarm

SD_DRACULA

altor wrote: »

If you activate the system does it show a vibration sensor activating, panic alarm on the keypad or is it just limited to the zones opening?

Yes I have a zone test menu where it tells me exactly what zone is open on the keypad, they all work ok. Just that the konnected doesn't register anything.

SD_DRACULA

altor wrote: »

If you disconnect the wires in the zone and put a short across the zone with the cable to the device does that work?
Open side without the cable to see if it registers the zone open.

Will try this now and I assume the wire to the Konnected board should be the left one (red) on the panel's zone?

altor

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Yes I have a zone test menu where it tells me exactly what zone is open on the keypad, they all work ok. Just that the konnected doesn't register anything.

Sorry SD, that was aimed at mossmaan,

Just trying to see if its only works with contacts (open/close) or does it work with analyzed zones, shock sensors.
Or would it activate on a keypad panic or faults on the system.

altor

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Will try this now and I assume the wire to the Konnected board should be the left one (red) on the panel's zone?

Could be either side, Ive never used the Konnected board.
Just want to see if it shows open on a zone with nothing on it with link on one side on and off.

mossmaan

altor wrote: »

Sorry SD, that was aimed at mossmaan,

Just trying to see if its only works with contacts (open/close) or does it work with analyzed zones, shock sensors.
Or would it activate on a keypad panic or faults on the system.

Sorry @Altor, my post was aimed at SD. My system is running ok, I was just trying to explain how it's set up

SD_DRACULA

Latest update:

I have gotten the alarm status/ arm&disarm status/remote arm/disarm to work so far but the zone status is dodgy at best. (mossman you probably need to program the outputs for that, since the arm/disarm status was not set correctly on my setup)

When I tweak the potentiometer on the zones it is so sensitive that I keep seeing all the zones flapping on/off which makes any automation off of that useless. They do change state when I open/close a door/window but they also keep switching between open/close on their own. If I tweak any further then they either stay on or off all the time, no idea why - this part should just work.

Waiting to hear from the Konnected support guys

@mossman, when you arm remotely does it do the 30 seconds beep/wait time? It does for me and is annoying as I would like to have it instantly armed like you do with 0#5

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Latest update:

I have gotten the alarm status/ arm&disarm status/remote arm/disarm to work so far but the zone status is dodgy at best. (mossman you probably need to program the outputs for that, since the arm/disarm status was not set correctly on my setup)

When I tweak the potentiometer on the zones it is so sensitive that I keep seeing all the zones flapping on/off which makes any automation off of that useless. They do change state when I open/close a door/window but they also keep switching between open/close on their own. If I tweak any further then they either stay on or off all the time, no idea why - this part should just work.

Waiting to hear from the Konnected support guys

@mossman, when you arm remotely does it do the 30 seconds beep/wait time? It does for me and is annoying as I would like to have it instantly armed like you do with 0#5

@SD_DRACULA that's a pain re the sensitivity. Yeah, I had to program the 2 outputs on my panel. I have arm/disarm and the other to follow the Internal Bell...External bell was giving odd behaviour on it's status.
I also have the same 30second behaviour when arming remotely/on my phone. I haven't tried to program it yet for quick arm but nothing sticks out from the Options. I'll let you know if I find the right set up.

My next step is to use a Smartthings sensor to trigger the alarm when motion is detected when the system is armed. Does anyone know what Output Option I should use on the panel to trigger the alarm from the Konnected relay?

SD_DRACULA

Yes that is exactly what I am also trying to figure out, to trigger the alarm to go off if someone messes with my gates sensor. The relay module I have can control two different things so in theory it should be possible.

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Yes that is exactly what I am also trying to figure out, to trigger the alarm to go off if someone messes with my gates sensor. The relay module I have can control two different things so in theory it should be possible.

I've got the relay to trigger the Alarm...just use another free zone, set it to Alarm (left it as normal in my case,) connect the relay, set the Alarm Out on the Konnected board as a Momentary Switch to break the circuit and trigger the alarm when it has been set. I'm using Smartthings for my setup. Was really simple in the end actually.
Delighted!

SD_DRACULA

mossmaan wrote: »

I've got the relay to trigger the Alarm...just use another free zone, set it to Alarm (left it as normal in my case,) connect the relay, set the Alarm Out on the Konnected board as a Momentary Switch to break the circuit and trigger the alarm when it has been set. I'm using Smartthings for my setup. Was really simple in the end actually.
Delighted!

Nice, and crap on the free zone, I only had one free zone (zone 8) which I used to remote arm/disarm. The 8/12 can actually take another 4 zones via an add-on board so just need to find one.

For my troubles, it seems like the voltage on my 12v from the board is actually 18.4v (same reading at the Konnected boards) which is kind of high according to the Konnected guys. I wonder if the backup battery is causing this as that seems to stay at around 18.4v also.

SD_DRACULA

@mossmaan how did you fix the zone status issue? Tried to look at that facebook link but way too many posts to find what you mentioned.
If you could do me a favour, can you see what voltage you get from the 12v output on the alarm panel? Maybe mine is not working right. Cheers

SD_DRACULA

Somehow fixed the sensors going crazy (maybe unplugging the transformer did the trick) but all good now.
One small annoying thing to fix is to skip the 30 second delay when arming via home assistant and have it done instantly.
Well that and try to find a 4 zone extender for the 8/12 board to be able to trigger an alarm based on other outside sensors.

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

@mossmaan how did you fix the zone status issue? Tried to look at that facebook link but way too many posts to find what you mentioned.
If you could do me a favour, can you see what voltage you get from the 12v output on the alarm panel? Maybe mine is not working right. Cheers

I'm actually going to check this later anyway, so will let you know.
I'm currently trying to set up Smart Home Monitor in SmartThings but it's asking me to choose my Siren from Konnected...I'm not sure how I set this up. I don't physically control the Siren from my alarm but I'm triggering it from momentarily opening a zone on the panel via Konnected with the relay - I'm not convinced this is the optimum setup

I'm wondering if I can connect some jumper wire to the High-Current Outputs on my panel or would it put too much current through the Konnected board and fry it? After all the High-Current Outputs seem set up for the sirens/strobe but I don't want to blow the house up!!
https://imgur.com/GgmbRrg
https://imgur.com/GeXgmW7

SD_DRACULA

Not sure if that is possible with the Konnected interface, it is for sure with the standard Konnected kit (the one that you actually wire all your zones/sirens to the Konnected boards and completely remove your alarm).

Well I can tell you the boards can take 18.5v just fine and they are rated 20v so just make sure your voltage there isn't higher which I doubt.

SD_DRACULA

Hey @mossmaan, any luck with the voltage readings? Curious to see what they are on the 10270 panel, might need to get mine replaced.

mossmaan

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Hey @mossmaan, any luck with the voltage readings? Curious to see what they are on the 10270 panel, might need to get mine replaced.

The voltage going through the 12v AUX in mine is 13.72v.

It's the same for high-current outputs on my panel, I tried getting creative and use the Ext Bell output instead of one of the Programmable outputs to see if the bell/siren is ringing...there’s 13.72v going through circuit when the bell is ringing and between 0.5v to 1.5v when it’s idle but Konnected doesn't seem to pick up the status change. I think I broke one of the potentiometers by over turning it while testing, ugh!

SD_DRACULA

Cheers, so my panel is pushing 18.5v all the time, I want to say the transformer is dodgy but I think I'll just swap it out for a 10270 instead of messing around with swapping parts out.
Also yeah I have no idea if I messed up the potentiometers by turning them so much, they do all light up but are they working right? Who knows.
This is getting to be an expensive experiment it seems.

Spocker

mossmaan wrote: »

The voltage going through the 12v AUX in mine is 13.72v.

Just checked my HKC panel that I'm using to power a Konnected and it's almost the same - 13.71v

SD_DRACULA

That seems to be spot on with the spec of those panels. No idea why mine is that high.

Tinder Surprise

Ethernet version soon available which is a massive upgrade imo (12 zones too

https://konnected.io/blogs/news/new-generation-of-konnected-alarm-panel-products-unveiled

~$199

..it addresses all the security and fail safe concerns relating to Wifi connectivity


they've also upgraded the original board
$99

SD_DRACULA

Yeah looks good though but already bought the old one now and I am 99% sure that none of the existing houses have ethernet available where the alarm panel is installed though. But I suppose one can tap into the 220v alarm power supply and use powerline adapters as a workaround.

irlstu

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Somehow fixed the sensors going crazy (maybe unplugging the transformer did the trick) but all good now.
One small annoying thing to fix is to skip the 30 second delay when arming via home assistant and have it done instantly.
Well that and try to find a 4 zone extender for the 8/12 board to be able to trigger an alarm based on other outside sensors.

Hey SD_DRACULA, can you tell me a bit more about what you did here? I'm having the same issue with overly sensitive potentiometers and zones flapping.

Thanks.

irlstu

I actually got mine working in the end. I moved the wiring into each zone to this port: imgur.com/a/TD2x5O2 (I can't post url as I'm a new user) as it was previously in the first port. So its now the other side of the 4K7 resistor. I then moved the potentiometer fully anti-clockwise. Also had to set 'inverse: true' in my configuration.yaml file. But its all working now

SD_DRACULA

irlstu wrote: »

I actually got mine working in the end. I moved the wiring into each zone to this port: imgur.com/a/TD2x5O2 (I can't post url as I'm a new user) as it was previously in the first port. So its now the other side of the 4K7 resistor. I then moved the potentiometer fully anti-clockwise. Also had to set 'inverse: true' in my configuration.yaml file. But its all working now

Actually mine is still doing that crazy on/off thing. I don't have any resistors at my panel though.
Did you add some to the red or black wire? Or how did you wire them in?
I did order a 1070 panel anyway since I'm getting too high voltage on the 12v so hopefully that won't do the same