Changes to the Cheltenham Festival

klairondavis

The National Hunt Chase will be reduced in distance to 3 miles and 6 furlongs from 2020.

A new grade 2 Mares Chase to be added to the calendar from 2021. Replaces an existing race - yet to be decided which one.

Slattsy

I like the NH Chase so im glad it wasn't done away with.

Not sure what this Mares chase is all about and why its needed.

BumperD

i guess they have sex restricted races on the flat. Having a mares chase will encourage more to keep them for racing and increase the breeding stock

Having said that wm will likely mop it up

PhuckHugh22

A mares chase. ffs what a joke.

That being said they should get rid of the mares novice its an absolute pile of rubbish of a race. There was probably mares running in the renewal this year that wouldnt win a maiden hurdle around clonmel during the winter.

longshotvalue

There is a lot of Mares in Training, its no harm to have a big race to aim for. 3 Mare's races out of 28 seems fine to me.



Seems likely the NH chase will be cast aside after the welfare issues last year. Im not sure it makes sense anyway as there is the RSA and Kim Muir, and Ultima. A 4mile Novice race with no Handicap just doesnt make sense really.



Dont get me wrong i enjoy the race, but a proper mares chase would be better.

PhuckHugh22

Considering they revised the conditions of the 4 miler/NH chase then I'd say it is highly unlikely they will get rid of it. That added to the fact it is one of the oldest races.

I would imagine it is odds on to be either the novice handicap or the Fred winter.

BigStickMick

Mares chase should at least give Willie Mullins another race to farm, there is too much filler at the festival nowadays. The 4 miler needs to go in the bin after last years debacle and assume that will be the race to bite the dust to make way for this.

PhuckHugh22

Why would they get rid of a race that they have tweaked to help with some of the problems.

Also im open to correction but is the NH Chase not the oldest race run at the festival? I would say it would be one of the last races they would get rid of.

kksaints

Considering they announced changes to the NH chase, it's hard to see them removing it. I'd say it will be one of the novice handicap chase or the Martin Pipe. Both races offer little. The cross-country is another possibility but I think Tiger Roll has done enough to save it.

RivetingRoger

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

Considering they revised the conditions of the 4 miler/NH chase then I'd say it is highly unlikely they will get rid of it. That added to the fact it is one of the oldest races.

I would imagine it is odds on to be either the novice handicap or the Fred winter.

U mean the Boodles

RivetingRoger

XCounty wont be gotten rid of
its been a specialty race for lots of horses in big stables
Too many high profile renewals
Not sure I agree the Mares Novice is a particularly bad race, been a few cracking horses come out of that in recent times too. Such a shame Honeysuckle didn't run last year
You might see something like the Ballymore in trouble seeing as its already competing with the Supreme for the novice hurdlers, or one of the JLT or the RSA even.
To lose any of those 4 would be a terrible decision, especially for a new race that very few people see the need for

PhuckHugh22

RivetingRoger wrote: »

U mean the Boodles

What i really meant was the "Failed Flat Horse Handicap"!!
But it doesnt have the same ring to it.

longshotvalue

Kevin Blake was saying Load up the barrells on the 7/1 about the Kim Muir. Seems they more or less said as much 2 years ago. (he doesnt often be that confident about backing)



Ive been to paddy and had a bet for fun.


The Novice Handicap Chase is a great race and makes sense i think.



The Kim Muir and Ultima are identical races really.

ustari

I am in the minority for this but I always enjoy cross country races in any form, brings the sport back to the roots of it and the variety of obstacles makes it a good spectacle. Agree with reducing the length of it down but disagreed with the bans the jockeys got this year, very unfair.

madmoose

The Fred Winter is a load of muck so hopefully that goes which should make the Triumph have a more solid look to it. Just look at the recent winners and tell me what they did after the race in their career apart from Diego Du Charmil who is half decent.

I like the Novice’s handicap chase but they have the JLT and also the Brown Advisory Plate with all 3 similar so i could see why the Novice handicap was chopped.

Slattsy

Yeah the Ultima or Fred Winter would be the obvious ones that could be cut.

PhuckHugh22

Slattsy wrote: »

Yeah the Ultima or Fred Winter would be the obvious ones that could be cut.

:eek::eek: The horror. The Ultima is one of the best races of the week.

Maybe you mean the novice handicap. Which is effectively a non handicap as the range of horses is from 140-145. These horses could easily rock up in one of the other Novice Chases. Might make the Arkle a decent race again.

Scott Tenorman

They should get rid of 7 handicap races, cut it back to 3 days, sorted!

abarkie

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

They should get rid of 7 handicap races, cut it back to 3 days, sorted!

I was thinking the opposite

Add a bumper each day, a mares chase and you can have a 5 day festival - easy

PS I am kidding - 3 days for me, think it is diluted enough

TheMilkyPirate

RivetingRoger wrote: »

XCounty wont be gotten rid of
its been a specialty race for lots of horses in big stables
Too many high profile renewals
Not sure I agree the Mares Novice is a particularly bad race, been a few cracking horses come out of that in recent times too. Such a shame Honeysuckle didn't run last year
You might see something like the Ballymore in trouble seeing as its already competing with the Supreme for the novice hurdlers, or one of the JLT or the RSA even.
To lose any of those 4 would be a terrible decision, especially for a new race that very few people see the need for

It will never be any of those four races. ( The RSA???)

IAMAMORON

I would imagine a 5 day festival is only a matter of time. I can see the Saturday being a big mop-up handicap day for the masses soon enough, The Uttoxeter national will have to suck it up and move to Sunday.

When I was a baby I am pretty sure Ascot was over 3 days midweek? It is now a 5 day monster and in fairness I am not complaining.

Horse racing fans never complain about more racing, look at Galway, every year it is getting bigger.

Slattsy

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

:eek::eek: The horror. The Ultima is one of the best races of the week.

Maybe you mean the novice handicap. Which is effectively a non handicap as the range of horses is from 140-145. These horses could easily rock up in one of the other Novice Chases. Might make the Arkle a decent race again.

Yeah that's the one. The new name confused me!

longshotvalue

Id prefer if they didnt get rid of any handicaps, they are the best handicaps of the year, and id be broke years ago only for the Grand Annual.

The Mig

I don't like the Foxhunters. Wouldn't miss it

Slattsy

The Mig wrote: »

I don't like the Foxhunters. Wouldn't miss it

Don't think they could get rid of a race for those riders. Wouldn't miss it myself.

The Mig

Slattsy wrote: »

Don't think they could get rid of a race for those riders. Wouldn't miss it myself.

Cyclists competing in it for a PR stunt says it all. Get rid and move it to the hunters chase day that not many give a ****e about

PhuckHugh22

Foxhunters another one of the oldest races run during the week.

Realistically it should be one of the newer races that goes. As much as I enjoy betting on the handicaps. I still think it should be one of the Boodles/Kim Muir/Novice handicap that goes. Kim Muir is another race with a rich tradition so would lean towards the other 2.

Of course the best solution all round is to remove the Mares Novice. Any decent Mares should be able to put it up to the geldings getting an allowance.

Slattsy

Just move it back to three days, I really struggle drinking for 4 days at my age.

The Tetrarch

I do not follow jumps racing.
They could have an opening day of all mares races.
Flat and jumps mares need more opportunities.
A mare with form is a more certain breeding bet than an unraced mare.
With a mares opening day those who want to keep Cheltenham as a four day meeting will still have that after the opening day.

picachu

The quality is terrible nowadays... I remember when being a Cheltenham winner meant something. Now any old thing can win a cheltenham. Seriously considering not even watching the last two days.

longshotvalue

picachu wrote: »

The quality is terrible nowadays... I remember when being a Cheltenham winner meant something. Now any old thing can win a cheltenham. Seriously considering not even watching the last two days.

Couldnt disagree more. Every race at the festival is a field full of horses all primed for the week . Anyone not watching the last 2 days because of quality , would watch about 6 races the whole year .

IAMAMORON

picachu wrote: »

The quality is terrible nowadays... I remember when being a Cheltenham winner meant something. Now any old thing can win a cheltenham. Seriously considering not even watching the last two days.

I respect that you have obviously had a long day. But waffle like that is really a waste of both your time and your fingers.

You may as well just get the Champion hurdle in and the Queen mother and then don't bother seeing who wins the gold cup, really?

You absolute spoofer.


" The quality is terrible nowadays" pleeeeeeease. Did you get a DeLorean for your birthday so you head back and watch Commanche Court for the craic?

picachu

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I respect that you have obviously had a long day. But waffle like that is really a waste of both your time and your fingers.

You may as well just get the Champion hurdle in and the Queen mother and then don't bother seeing who wins the gold cup, really?

You absolute spoofer.


" The quality is terrible nowadays" pleeeeeeease. Did you get a DeLorean for your birthday so you head back and watch Commanche Court for the craic?

I think your name is appropriate. I see a few people would agree.

Maybe you were better off posting in the Love Island thread because you haven't a clue about racing you spoofer...

picachu

aidankkk wrote: »

Couldnt disagree more. Every race at the festival is a field full of horses all primed for the week . Anyone not watching the last 2 days because of quality , would watch about 6 races the whole year .

I understand they are all primed for the festival. Doesn't make the quality of the race better.

We all want to see grade one races. These mares novice hurdles are just padding for the grade ones.

The Ryanair is a terrible race in my opinion. It attracts only horses that aren't good enough to win a gold cup. If you ask any owner do they want to win the ryanair or the gold cup or queen mother the ryanair is the bottom of the three.

Each to their own. I definitely would pay in to watch Thursdays racing.

yaboya1

picachu wrote: »

I understand they are all primed for the festival. Doesn't make the quality of the race better.

We all want to see grade one races. These mares novice hurdles are just padding for the grade ones.

The Ryanair is a terrible race in my opinion. It attracts only horses that aren't good enough to win a gold cup. If you ask any owner do they want to win the ryanair or the gold cup or queen mother the ryanair is the bottom of the three.

Each to their own. I definitely would pay in to watch Thursdays racing.

Both of those races are on the Thursday

longshotvalue

picachu wrote: »

I understand they are all primed for the festival. Doesn't make the quality of the race better.

We all want to see grade one races. These mares novice hurdles are just padding for the grade ones.

The Ryanair is a terrible race in my opinion. It attracts only horses that aren't good enough to win a gold cup. If you ask any owner do they want to win the ryanair or the gold cup or queen mother the ryanair is the bottom of the three.

Each to their own. I definitely would pay in to watch Thursdays racing.

So all you want in a 2 mile champion chase and a 3m2 furlong Gold Cup. That would be silly the difference is far too much. Only a very small percentage of horse's can stay the gold cup distance, and that doesn't mean they arnt top class, just they don't stay the trip. The Ryanair has been a excellent race down the years.

In fact i thing the Gold Cup trip is 2 furlongs too far, but thats never going to change. The way it is now there really should be an intermediate trip.

picachu

aidankkk wrote: »

So all you want in a 2 mile champion chase and a 3m2 furlong Gold Cup. That would be silly the difference is far too much. Only a very small percentage of horse's can stay the gold cup distance, and that doesn't mean they arnt top class, just they don't stay the trip. The Ryanair has been a excellent race down the years.

In fact i thing the Gold Cup trip is 2 furlongs too far, but thats never going to change. The way it is now there really should be an intermediate trip.

It was good enough for decades before true commercialism took over.

Any horse who was a non stayer or not quick enough for the queen mother went to Aintree and were crowned there. Should there be s championship 2 mile 5 hurdle race??? A three mile bumper? Where does it end?

BigStickMick

Festival has been oversaturated and overhyped for many years now, but most people have bought into the hype wholesale and made it the be all and end all of their racing calendar so it has become a self fulfilling prophecy and nobody can admit that it is not actually all it is made out to be anymore. There will more than likely be a fifth day added soon enough I would expect.

FatRat

BigStickMick wrote: »

Festival has been oversaturated and overhyped for many years now, but most people have bought into the hype wholesale and made it the be all and end all of their racing calendar so it has become a self fulfilling prophecy and nobody can admit that it is not actually all it is made out to be anymore. There will more than likely be a fifth day added soon enough I would expect.

What gives you the right to decide what people want out of a festival? The idea of the sport and festival being fun seems to be lost on some posters in here. I follow the sport to watch decent horses but above all else to enjoy myself. This is something Cheltenham allows for in a big way. The week is great craic, go out and enjoy it. No need to be a snobby purist about it pretending all you care about is horses like Altior making history. You should try buying into the hype yourself for a change.

BigStickMick

FatRat wrote: »

What gives you the right to decide what people want out of a festival? The idea of the sport and festival being fun seems to be lost on some posters in here. I follow the sport to watch decent horses but above all else to enjoy myself. This is something Cheltenham allows for in a big way. The week is great craic, go out and enjoy it. No need to be a snobby purist about it pretending all you care about is horses like Altior making history. You should try buying into the hype yourself for a change.

Just my opinion based on experience of watching and attending the sport for many years, I think I have a right to an opinion without being called a pretentious snobby purist?

The festival has become a massive cash generator and has been marketed to such an extent that it is now the "world cup finals" of the jumps season with the rest of the season just a side show. Fair enough if people enjoy it but I don't think having an experience that is enjoyable and not having an overhyped circus that overshadows everything else should be mutually exclusive positions. No need to be such a Cheltenham fanboy about everything, maybe try taking an objective view on things.

IAMAMORON

I think anyone who is criticising the festival is probably looking to be a bit controversial. FATRAT is spot on, it is a horse racing festival there to be enjoyed by each and anyone. Posters on about the quality of the racing need to check themselves. Particularly Cheltenham ffs. Is there 14 Grade 1's all week, maybe more?

I can have better craic at the ponies in Dingle than at Royal Ascot or Del Mar. At the end of the day they are just race meetings, how you enjoy them is up to you.

For the record I came back from Gold Cup day and I have decided that is the last big meeting I am attending in the UK. It is overcrowded and too busy, it was difficult to do anything and I didn't see enough of the races. I can have a better time at the pub and into the bookies, I miss nothing and probably see a bit more.

In saying all that I don't think it will stop the scuffs going to gold cup day in the future. I have probably had enough of going racing on really busy days, the racing is still competitive and enjoyable, it is not the races, it is me.

Scott Tenorman

BigStickMick wrote: »

Just my opinion based on experience of watching and attending the sport for many years, I think I have a right to an opinion without being called a pretentious snobby purist?

The festival has become a massive cash generator and has been marketed to such an extent that it is now the "world cup finals" of the jumps season with the rest of the season just a side show. Fair enough if people enjoy it but I don't think having an experience that is enjoyable and having an overhyped circus that overshadows everything else should be mutually exclusive positions. No need to be such a Cheltenham fanboy about everything, maybe try taking an objective view on things.

It usually gets described as the "Olympics of NH"
IMO nothing wrong with wanting the Olympics to be all about quality which is why i would get rid of the handicaps.

In saying all that I fully accept how popular the festival is and if anything 5 days is more likely than 3

posturingpat

Kevin Blake made a good case why he thinks Kim Muir could be the race that gets the boot. Basically he reckons they don't want amateur races. The stewards gave a warning after the 4 miler this year that the amateurs will have to ride more sensibly in the other races there in or they'd face the consequences. A couple of amateurs then got bans in the Kim Muir so this could be them paying the consequences.
The mares novice is a horrendous race but they'll keep it, Fred winter or boodles or whatever it's called wouldn't be missed by me either.

BigStickMick

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

It usually gets described as the "Olympics of NH"
IMO nothing wrong with wanting the Olympics to be all about quality which is why i would get rid of the handicaps.

In saying all that I fully accept how popular the festival is and if anything 5 days is more likely than 3

Olympics is once every four years though. Cheltenham has become so big that now every big race in the jumps season that comes before it is basically a trial for Cheltenham, I preferred it when big races meant something in their own right but maybe I'm snobby.

Scott Tenorman

BigStickMick wrote: »

Olympics is once every four years though. Cheltenham has become so big that now every big race in the jumps season that comes before it is basically a trial for Cheltenham, I preferred it when big races meant something in their own right but maybe I'm snobby.

Not snobby at all.
The entire year shouldn't be the build up to one week

Billgirlylegs

picachu wrote: »

It was good enough for decades before true commercialism took over.

Any horse who was a non stayer or not quick enough for the queen mother went to Aintree and were crowned there. Should there be s championship 2 mile 5 hurdle race??? A three mile bumper? Where does it end?

Its obvious that its only a matter of time until you get a 2.5mile championship hurdle. I remember three great horses, One Man, Beau Ranger and Dublin Flyer were left legless in the Gold Cup. Ryanair would have been ideal for them, and it has produced brilliant contests and performances over the years.

Same principal applies over hurdles.

zpehtsfd

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

Not snobby at all.
The entire year shouldn't be the build up to one week

Exactly. I remember the build up used to really get going after the February Leopardstown meeting. Now it's after Willie wins a decent maiden hurdle in November. The hype is exhausting and detracts from all the quality pre-festival racing.

RivetingRoger

Bollocks!!!
Absolute bollocks!
It's now August, and I am counting the days.
Cannot wait, flat means f*ckall to me in comparison

I CAN NOT WAIT!!! 204 DAYS.............

RivetingRoger

So, Picachu, you think Un De Sceaux and Vautour are/were "nothing horses" who just weren't good enough for QM or the GC is it???/

You know what the best thing about Picachu always was in Pokemon.......the fact that it said nothing!
You could take a leaf out of his book

BigStickMick

RivetingRoger wrote: »

Bollocks!!!
Absolute bollocks!
It's now August, and I am counting the days.
Cannot wait, flat means f*ckall to me in comparison

I CAN NOT WAIT!!! 204 DAYS.............

The fact that you don't like the flat but the jumps season doesn't apparently start till Cheltenham more or less proves the point I was making..

yaboya1

RivetingRoger wrote: »

So, Picachu, you think Un De Sceaux and Vautour are/were "nothing horses" who just weren't good enough for QM or the GC is it???/

You know what the best thing about Picachu always was in Pokemon.......the fact that it said nothing!
You could take a leaf out of his book

The fact that the Ryanair is there means we never got to see Vautour in the Gold Cup. Same can be said for a few, other very good horses. I don't mind the Ryanair, but it definitely dilutes the quality of both the QMCC and the Gold Cup.