Dublin Bus at it again (women only need apply)

punisher5112

I just seen db is at it another year in a row where they are pushing for women only drivers....

I find this type of advertising is extremely sexist and another dig against men.....


Equal status is what people want but this is far from equality....

EV 18 is going around with the full AOA on it.

Elemonator

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

skooterblue2

Elemonator wrote: »

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

How is it going to solve the problem of the lack of men in teaching, childcare and Social care?
Why arent more women applying for construction/Sanitation/physics?

kowloon

Elemonator wrote: »

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

The downside is it breeds resentment from those excluded. I think people need to be punished for sexism, racism and so on, but employment needs to progress naturally through meritocracy, or as close to it as we can get.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How is it going to solve the problem of the lack of men in teaching, childcare and Social care?
Why arent more women applying for construction/Sanitation/physics?

I know a guy who was given preferential placement as he was a male primary school teacher in a profession with a female majority. It goes both ways. In a perfect world, sex wouldn't come into it.

Del2005

punisher5112 wrote: »

I just seen db is at it another year in a row where they are pushing for women only drivers....

I find this type of advertising is extremely sexist and another dig against men.....


Equal status is what people want but this is far from equality....

EV 18 is going around with the full AOA on it.

With the way it's gone now you can just claim to be whatever sex they want. So we'll have men declaring as women to be able to apply for these positive discrimination jobs.

dvdman1

Why would you want to have 50/50 m/f bus drivers?
.....window dressing i dont see any push for female general laborours on building sites

Outlaw Pete

Good to hear. We need more of this.

Personally I have my heart set on being the first male lapdancer in lapellos.

Twice I've been turfed out onto Dame St with my CV thrown after me.

Change takes time.

d8491prj5boyvg

I think this is great. Young girls need to see that they can drive busses too, be farmers, work on building sites and do similarly traditionally male jobs. Quotas really help with this.

However, I do believe push tactics may also help change minds too. A quota on the number of women allowed mind children, become doctors/nurses (currently overrepresented) and become teachers would be useful to push women towards male dominated roles. We need to push people out of their comfort zone to achieve equality.

RacoonQueen

punisher5112 wrote: »

I just seen db is at it another year in a row where they are pushing for women only drivers....

I find this type of advertising is extremely sexist and another dig against men.....


Equal status is what people want but this is far from equality....

EV 18 is going around with the full AOA on it.

Why are you twisting things? Nowhere on their website are they promoting women only drivers, they are doing a female driver recruitment open day. Presumably to show women that they can do the job or that they may enjoy it. Perhaps they can't get male drivers so are trying to attract women.

Want a go at driving a bus? Well give it a spin at one of our Female Driver Recruitment Open Days!

Our first open day will be held on Saturday 24 August 2019. If this date doesn’t suit you don’t worry we will be holding more open days so let us know that you want to attend!

What to expect on the day
On the day you will meet some of our current female drivers and inspectors who will share with you their experiences of working with Dublin Bus. You will get the opportunity to drive a bus with one of our professional driving instructors. We will give you a tour of our Central Control centre, and we will take you through the recruitment process for bus drivers, and the various benefits of working for Dublin Bus.

How do I apply to attend an open day?
To attend an open day all you need to do is email opendays@dublinbus.ie to register your interest. We will email you with a time slot and directions to the location. You must hold a valid category B (car) licence for a minimum of two years to attend an open day.

dudara

Moved from AH > CA

Yer Da sells Avon

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How is it going to solve the problem of the lack of men in teaching, childcare and Social care?
Why arent more women applying for construction/Sanitation/physics?

There isn't really anything that a bus company can do to solve those problems.

Despite the fact that it's a very easy (and well-paid) job, Dublin Bus is currently struggling to recruit new drivers, full-stop. All they're doing here is trying to persuade more women - who might not otherwise have even thought about driving buses for a living - to consider it as a career.

facehugger99

Surely women need to demonstrate they can drive cars competently before we allow them to drive buses?

whisky_galore

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

I think this is great. Young girls need to see that they can drive busses too, be farmers, work on building sites and do similarly traditionally male jobs. Quotas really help with this.

However, I do believe push tactics may also help change minds too. A quota on the number of women allowed mind children, become doctors/nurses (currently overrepresented) and become teachers would be useful to push women towards male dominated roles. We need to push people out of their comfort zone to achieve equality.

You can't really choose to be a farmer unless you inherit a farm. Otherwise you're just a farm labourer.

Building site work still has a lot of physical strength involved, the only females I ever saw on sites (apart from one female lorry driver) were in supervisory or H and S roles, not pulling and dragging stuff around the place.

d8491prj5boyvg

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can't really choose to be a farmer unless you inherit a farm. Otherwise you're just a farm labourer.

Building site work still has a lot of physical strength involved, the only females I ever saw on sites (apart from one female lorry driver) were in supervisory or H and S roles, not pulling and dragging stuff around the place.

Women can inherit farms too you know.

For building site work, we have trollies, winches and other aids. I even get patella booster spring knee brace ads in my YouTube feed nowadays. I'm sure similar aids are being developed for arm muscles. Physical strength is no excuse for persisting workplace inequalities.

Hector Savage

Elemonator wrote: »

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

What about the lack of female brick layers ?
or bin collectors ?
Or is it only for good jobs ?

Also, do you think maybe in general - men and women have different interests so in certain areas you will always have more men/women.

Equality of opportunity - yes, equality of outcome is a terrible idea - as it means the best people won't get the job in order for them to tweak the stats.

Salary Negotiator

facehugger99 wrote: »

Surely women need to demonstrate they can drive cars competently before we allow them to drive buses?

They'll fit right in with many of DB's drivers.

Dravokivich

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

They'll fit right in with many of DB's drivers.

Go ahead seem to be nudging their buses quite a lot.

Dravokivich

Elemonator wrote: »

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

"Gender imbalance" is the wrong way to look at it. Equality and anti-discrimination should be about the opportunity, not the result.

GreeBo

Elemonator wrote: »

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

Is positive discrimination towards women not, by basic logic, negative discrimination towards men?

topper75

Why are they keeping men away from the application process? Are they afraid they will be better drivers than the women? If a woman deserves the job and is the best candidate, why should she fear men applying in competition with her?

Surely with any job, the best person ought to be selected. You don't drive a bus with your genitals.

Midnight_EG

Dublin Bus have had recruitment open for drivers since March (Until end of this month), and I know firsthand that there was next to no women applying so it's hardly discrimination.

is_that_so

GreeBo wrote: »

Is positive discrimination towards women not, by basic logic, negative discrimination towards men?

Sure, but given the traditional perception of male only bus drivers this is a way of raising the possibility of women doing so. I really see no issue with it at all

oLoonatic

Just putting it out there. Could we not just hire the best drivers regardless of gender. surely safety figures are more important than gender ratio!!

is_that_so

oLoonatic wrote: »

Just putting it out there. Could we not just hire the best drivers regardless of gender. surely safety figures are more important than gender ratio!!

It is about opportunity and it seems to be inviting women to take advantage of that opportunity.

whisky_galore

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

Women can inherit farms too you know.

Well duh, of course they can. Doesn't mean they'll choose to take up farming though.

Site work is still physical, you've probably not been on one in your life. There are still things machines can't do, not cost effectively at any rate and it's no job for old men (or old women either)

punisher5112

If a male only day was on that bus this would be front page news and there would be uproar......

I believe we as a country are getting away from reality and people need to realise women are needed to keep the Irish genes going but less and less are having babies and are now as it seems to me more interested in a career.

Anyone can drive a bus once they train hard and get it.

Of course it's no easy job especially in the city and all the small roads where a horse and cart was what it was designed for....

Imo it's a issue and I think it's bad form.

Feisar

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

Women can inherit farms too you know.

For building site work, we have trollies, winches and other aids. I even get patella booster spring knee brace ads in my YouTube feed nowadays. I'm sure similar aids are being developed for arm muscles. Physical strength is no excuse for persisting workplace inequalities.

It's not an excuse, it's a legitimate reason. A few knee pads ain't going to cut it and complete exoskeletons aren't there yet.

RandomName2

Elemonator wrote: »

Positive discrimination is permissible under EU law. It’s not illegal and was enacted quite necessarily to solve the gender imbalance in the workplace.

Define 'positive'. What would negative discrimination be, as compared to positive discrimination? Is it to do with representation, and representation of what exactly? Could you extend it to social class, or religion?

We are only hiring Catholics as there are currently too many atheists in this workplace.

That hypothetical sentence above sounds pretty illegal under EU rules, but why should it be if positive discrimination is legal?

Chris_Heilong

Forced equality is not equality at all. Men and women are very different and will be drawn to different things by targeting one sex over another you are creating inequality, equality of opportunity is all that is needed. I am really hating the direction the world is going with the craziest ideas now coming to the forefront. Women are Women, Men are Men, we are not blank slates.

Varta

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

I think this is great. Young girls need to see that they can drive busses too, be farmers, work on building sites and do similarly traditionally male jobs. Quotas really help with this.

However, I do believe push tactics may also help change minds too. A quota on the number of women allowed mind children, become doctors/nurses (currently overrepresented) and become teachers would be useful to push women towards male dominated roles. We need to push people out of their comfort zone to achieve equality.

What gives you the right to push people out of their comfort zones?

d8491prj5boyvg

whisky_galore wrote: »

Well duh, of course they can. Doesn't mean they'll choose to take up farming though.

Site work is still physical, you've probably not been on one in your life. There are still things machines can't do, not cost effectively at any rate and it's no job for old men (or old women either)

This is offensive to me as it is a typical mysoginistic mansplaining attitude. Women can cope perfectly well, thank you very much.

d8491prj5boyvg

Varta wrote: »

What gives you the right to push people out of their comfort zones?

I won't be doing it personally. But we need equality and I'm fully in agreement that this is equality for men too. Quotas on creche work, primary schools, beauticians, hairdressing are for the benefit of men. They help them into these jobs. But the beauty of it is, they open up places for women on building sites, etc. where guys who would otherwise become blocklayers or plasterers are now beauticians or tanning salon operators. This frees up place for women previously forced into those demeaning jobs to be crane operators, cement mixers, etc.

circadian

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Why are you twisting things? Nowhere on their website are they promoting women only drivers, they are doing a female driver recruitment open day. Presumably to show women that they can do the job or that they may enjoy it. Perhaps they can't get male drivers so are trying to attract women.

Ssshhhhhh, you're wrecking the outrage buzz. You're not supposed to look at actual facts or use critical thinking. Just treat it like a tabloid, thread title = outrage.

padd b1975

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How is it going to solve the problem of the lack of men in teaching, childcare and Social care?
Why arent more women applying for construction/Sanitation/physics?

Shhhh!

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

If a male only day was on that bus this would be front page news and there would be uproar......

It would make no sense, as the vast majority already applying for driving jobs with Dublin Bus are men. If, for some strange reason, hardly any men were applying, and lots of women were, then it would be perfectly normal for a company that desperately needs drivers to issue a similar rallying call to men.

They're not giving preference to women - this is just a way of getting more people to think about applying.

punisher5112

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It would make no sense, as the vast majority already applying for driving jobs with Dublin Bus are men. If, for some strange reason, hardly any men were applying, and lots of women were, then it would be perfectly normal for a company that desperately needs drivers to issue a similar rallying call to men.

They're not giving preference to women - this is just a way of getting more people to think about applying.

That isn't how it would go down....

My main point is if a company of any sort put up male only day then this would be a big deal and protests etc.....


I actually would love to try it some day just to prove my point.

ohnonotgmail

punisher5112 wrote: »

That isn't how it would go down....

My main point is if a company of any sort put up male only day then this would be a big deal and protests etc.....


I actually would love to try it some day just to prove my point.

well at least you have rowed back slightly on the nonsense in your OP. that is something i suppose.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

dvdman1 wrote: »

Why would you want to have 50/50 m/f bus drivers?
.....window dressing i dont see any push for female general laborours on building sites

Why when this topic arises do some people seem to imply that women never do hard or unpleasant jobs? Cleaners are much more likely to be female, as are care assistants for example. Both can be very tough jobs.

kowloon

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

For building site work, we have trollies, winches and other aids. I even get patella booster spring knee brace ads in my YouTube feed nowadays. I'm sure similar aids are being developed for arm muscles. Physical strength is no excuse for persisting workplace inequalities.

Stephen15

Mind you I've noticed in some places on the continent there seems to be a lot more woman bus drivers than there are in Ireland which I thought was sort of odd wouldn't be in the majority or even equal numbers but still more than there are here.

That being said Go-Ahead seem to have quite a few women drivers more than DB per capita it seems and I haven't heard of them having any recruitment campaigns targetted at women. Personally think they should be targetting younger people as bus drivers seem to have an ageing demographic. Gender shouldn't be a factor it should be competency.

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

That isn't how it would go down....

My main point is if a company of any sort put up male only day then this would be a big deal and protests etc.....


I actually would love to try it some day just to prove my point.

If, for example, the Department of Education was facing a primary school teacher shortage and launched an initiative to encourage more men to consider a teaching career, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid. I mean, would you have a problem with it?

kowloon

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

If, for example, the Department of Education was facing a primary school teacher shortage and launched an initiative to encourage more men to consider a teaching career, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid. I mean, would you have a problem with it?

I think with primary teaching one of the main things holding men back is the attitudes of other men. Primary teaching is still seen as a job for women and men are viewed with suspicion. But even if that wasn't an issue I don't see as many men actually wanting to be primary teachers, so trying to force a quota is only going to result in more worthy candidates losing out.
I think the same may be true of bus drivers. How attractive is the job to women in the first place?

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

If, for example, the Department of Education was facing a primary school teacher shortage and launched an initiative to encourage more men to consider a teaching career, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid. I mean, would you have a problem with it?

Well I wouldn't agree with that either as I believe it should be based on how suitable the person would be at the job not their gender. If I had children I would like them taught by the most competent person regardles sof gender. This should be complete non issue for most companies or organisations if you ask me why does it matter what what gender a worker is.

Varta

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

I won't be doing it personally. But we need equality and I'm fully in agreement that this is equality for men too. Quotas on creche work, primary schools, beauticians, hairdressing are for the benefit of men. They help them into these jobs. But the beauty of it is, they open up places for women on building sites, etc. where guys who would otherwise become blocklayers or plasterers are now beauticians or tanning salon operators. This frees up place for women previously forced into those demeaning jobs to be crane operators, cement mixers, etc.

Again, the superiority. I know hairdressers who would be very insulted to be told that their's is a demeaning job. And how on earth is using a cement mixer somehow less demeaning than cutting hair? BTW quite a decent percentage of hairdressers are men.

Stephen15

Should supermarkets for example be putting more men on the checkouts and put more women stacking shelves

Riskymove

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well I wouldn't agree with that either as I believe it should be based on how suitable the person would be at the job not their gender.

but this is the case

the event is simply trying to encourage more women to apply

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Daphne Hallowed Shepherdess wrote: »

I think this is great. Young girls need to see that they can drive busses too, be farmers, work on building sites and do similarly traditionally male jobs. Quotas really help with this.

However, I do believe push tactics may also help change minds too. A quota on the number of women allowed mind children, become doctors/nurses (currently overrepresented) and become teachers would be useful to push women towards male dominated roles. We need to push people out of their comfort zone to achieve equality.

So in your perfect world a woman should get a job over a man based on what’s between her legs.

Yeah ok... that’s really progressive.

Ya know what’s complete bullshít?
I’ve NEVER in my life heard anyone tell a kid, male or female that they CANT be a firefighter, a nurse, a teacher based on their sex. Literally never. Let the best qualified people get the job.

Stephen15

Riskymove wrote: »

but this is the case

the event is simply trying to encourage more women to apply

Honestly I don't see why it matters

Yer Da sells Avon

Stephen15 wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why it matters

It matters to Dublin Bus right now because it means that more people will apply overall. From a quality perspective, it makes sense to have the largest pool of applicants possible.

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It matters to Dublin Bus right now because it means that more people will apply overall. From a quality perspective, it makes sense to have the largest pool of applicants possible.

So then why are they putting ads up specifically targeting females surely they should be targetting anyone who is interested in applying male or female. I honestly don't see why women would be put off applying if they are interested in driving a bus without a female targeted recruitment campaign. It's not like there is a physical element to the job that women might be put off by.

Yer Da sells Avon

Stephen15 wrote: »

So then why are they putting ads up specifically targeting females surely they should be targetting anyone who is interested in applying male or female.

Because hardly any women are applying. If they can attract more women to apply, that brings the overall number of applicants up.