Would a gen 1 leaf suit me.

obi604

Thinking of a gen 1 leaf.
Work is 40km round trip. So 20km each way.
First 3km is getting out on motorway. Through a town etc slow speed. Max 50kph.
Then motorway speeds of 120kph for about 12km
Then speed limit of 100kph for 2km.
The last 3km is traffic.

Have a second car in house.
Otherwise used for trips to shop. 5km round trip. School 5km round trip and few other things locally. Pickups and drop offs.

Don’t have a charger in work! Only at home.

Would it work or just too close to the bone?


EDIT: Most important thing. BUDGET. My budget is 5000 Euro. I cannot go beyond this.

unkel

Depends on "few other things locally" and depends on the state of health of the battery. Some of the cheapest gen 1 Leafs have only 7-8 bars left and would still set you back the guts of €6k. And several years from now you still want it to do your same trips?

If you charge the car overnight and come back from work after your 40km commute and plug it in for even just one hour and then go to the shop / do drop offs, it will make a difference. The fact that could always take your other car will also make a difference

On the balance of things with our commute, a gen 1 Leaf will probably be a very good match for your needs. Personally I feel that getting a gen 1.5 (141) Leaf for about €9-€10k is a better proposition.

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

Thinking of a gen 1 leaf.
Work is 40km round trip. So 20km each way.
First 3km is getting out on motorway. Through a town etc slow speed. Max 50kph.
Then motorway speeds of 120kph for about 12km
Then speed limit of 100kph for 2km.
The last 3km is traffic.

Have a second car in house.
Otherwise used for trips to shop. 5km round trip. School 5km round trip and few other things locally. Pickups and drop offs.

Don’t have a charger in work! Only at home.

Would it work or just too close to the bone?

Make that 100km/h and you're laughing.

obi604

Soarer wrote: »

Make that 100km/h and you're laughing.

Mmmm. Maybe for now. But how will I be fixed in 3 years from now with range!

KCross

obi604 wrote: »

Thinking of a gen 1 leaf.
Work is 40km round trip. So 20km each way.
First 3km is getting out on motorway. Through a town etc slow speed. Max 50kph.
Then motorway speeds of 120kph for about 12km
Then speed limit of 100kph for 2km.
The last 3km is traffic.

Have a second car in house.
Otherwise used for trips to shop. 5km round trip. School 5km round trip and few other things locally. Pickups and drop offs.

Don’t have a charger in work! Only at home.

Would it work or just too close to the bone?

My 30km commute is very similar to yours with 16km of motorway in the middle. I’ve a 2015 Leaf and I drive it at full motorway speed and I come home with about 25-30% left so your 20km commute would be fine, imo.

You might need an occasional evening topup at home particularly in bad weather so a 6.6kW capable Leaf would be worth it for you and you also have the security blanket of the 2nd car so I’d recommend you go for the Gen 1.5(132+) as the 6.6kW charger wasn’t available, I don’t think, in the Gen 1.0.

Get one on a 24hr test drive and see how it goes on your commute.

Lantus

Best of luck finding a leaf for 5k..

Could find only one for 7k.

obi604

Lantus wrote: »

Best of luck finding a leaf for 5k..

Could find only one for 7k.

What real world range has your leaf got

KCross

obi604 wrote: »

EDIT: Most important thing. BUDGET. My budget is 5000 Euro. I cannot go beyond this.

That was a rather important detail!
You won’t get a Leaf worth having for that money.

...Ghost...

Budget is too small. You won't find one for 5k. Leaf would be ideal for you usage profile though. Consider the savings you would make and then re-visit the budget.

obi604

KCross wrote: »

That was a rather important detail!
You won’t get a Leaf worth having for that money.

Yes, it was kind of important alright.

Right. So realistically a leaf is out of the question with my Budget. And even if I did find one......in 2 years from now it probably would not even suit my needs. Due to range etc etc

Any other alternatives with my 5k budget?

I like auto. Sick of paying high tax also

Lantus

obi604 wrote: »

Yes, it was kind of important alright.

Right. So realistically a leaf is out of the question with my Budget. And even if I did find one......in 2 years from now it probably would not even suit my needs. Due to range etc etc

Any other alternatives with my 5k budget?

I like auto. Sick of paying high tax also

Small petrol car is best option. Very unlikely to get auto though. Focus on getting a good super mini, cheap fuel and running costs.

physioman

Lantus wrote: »

Small petrol car is best option. Very unlikely to get auto though. Focus on getting a good super mini, cheap fuel and running costs.

+1 I use to have a 01 golf 1.9 tdi. Tax 700 a year. Got a 04 yaris for 850. Just went through nct last week. Do similar milage to yourself and my wife has a bigger car

obi604

physioman wrote: »

+1 I use to have a 01 golf 1.9 tdi. Tax 700 a year. Got a 04 yaris for 850. Just went through nct last week. Do similar milage to yourself and my wife has a bigger car

Could be an option. Have 5k to spend so could go a bit bigger

MK II Prius, will go forever and I used to be able to get 4.4 L/100 km to 4.6 L/100 Km , of course they are older now and batteries can be an issue on high mileage cars but they can go for over 600,000 Kms without much difficulty. Seemingly the ones in every day use last much longer. But the battery is something to consider, think it's 2500 fitted here in Ireland, might get one reconditioned in the U.K for half that but you could be lucky and have no issues. A new battery for a Leaf is about 5,500 fitted in Ireland, makes the Prius battery look ridiculously expensive unless they are a lot cheaper today but to Toyota this ancient battery tech is still cutting edge lol.

Prius is a good car and quite big, paint is very light and scratches and chips easy,

Try find a MK III prius from late 2009.

Failing that a MK II Yaris, will last forever, granted they are basic and noisy but good city car. At 120 Km/h on the motorway they are gutless and noisy but cheap motoring.

Worst case with a Leaf is that you spend 5,500 on it and it will last many more years. But would you spend 5.5 K on a battery ? it could be cheaper now too and maybe more in a few years time. The Newer battery would also be more durable.

With older leafs I'd avoid "fast" charging, it's too "slow" anyway and will get slower as the battery degrades but it's harder on the early leaf battery.

obi604

[Deleted User] wrote: »

MK II Prius, will go forever and I used to be able to get 4.4 L/100 km to 4.6 L/100 Km , of course they are older now and batteries can be an issue on high mileage cars but they can go for over 600,000 Kms without much difficulty. Seemingly the ones in every day use last much longer. But the battery is something to consider, think it's 2500 fitted here in Ireland, might get one reconditioned in the U.K for half that but you could be lucky and have no issues. A new battery for a Leaf is about 5,500 fitted in Ireland, makes the Prius battery look ridiculously expensive unless they are a lot cheaper today but to Toyota this ancient battery tech is still cutting edge lol.

Prius is a good car and quite big, paint is very light and scratches and chips easy,

Try find a MK III prius from late 2009.

Failing that a MK II Yaris, will last forever, granted they are basic and noisy but good city car. At 120 Km/h on the motorway they are gutless and noisy but cheap motoring.

Worst case with a Leaf is that you spend 5,500 on it and it will last many more years. But would you spend 5.5 K on a battery ? it could be cheaper now too and maybe more in a few years time. The Newer battery would also be more durable.

With older leafs I'd avoid "fast" charging, it's too "slow" anyway and will get slower as the battery degrades but it's harder on the early leaf battery.

Thanks for input.
Prius could be an option alright. Probably would not get a MK III Prius on my budget.

obi604

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks for input.
Prius could be an option alright. Probably would not get a MK III Prius on my budget.

Great car and a lot more spacious than a Yaris more power and automatic, more comfort and quieter.

Check service history and if it hasn't been done get the gearbox oil changed as this is crucial to the longevity of the transaxle, the bit that houses the electric motors and gearbox. Needs to be done every 100,000 Kms, not part of the service schedule but highly recommended on the priuschat forum considering independent tests carried out on the oil that never needs changing !

unkel

Prius would be false economy. A forum regular is putting up his Leaf with 8 bars left (so suitable for your use) for under €6k. That's a grand over your budget. But it would save you that grand in no time compared with a petrol car.

obi604

unkel wrote: »

Prius would be false economy. A forum regular is putting up his Leaf with 8 bars left (so suitable for your use) for under €6k. That's a grand over your budget. But it would save you that grand in no time compared with a petrol car.

Right. That’s fair enough. It probably would suit me now. But in 3, 4 or 5 years time, it would not suit my use due to battery degradation.

unkel

Then you can sell it on and buy a newer model. You will still get good money back for it. Would still be perfect for someone doing a tiny commute, only small local trips etc.

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

Right. That’s fair enough. It probably would suit me now. But in 3, 4 or 5 years time, it would not suit my use due to battery degradation.

You could be dead in the morning!

I did a little test on Tuesday just gone.
Weather was warm, but windy.
No a/c or heating. Windows down a fraction, but have wind deflectors so shouldn't have affected anything.

2011 Leaf, 187k kms, 64% SOH.
Full battery.
Zeroed the trip.
Bit of local driving around.
Then an approximate 40km round trip to football at mostly 100km/h indicated (not ideal for the Leaf).
Then into work Wednesday morning, and over and back to the shop at lunchtime.
At that stage, my tripometer read 72.8km and LeafSpy said 22.3% SOC.
Had a few things to do that evening, so charged at that stage.

Now obviously you never get down to zero, and I’d normally never let it go below 10%.
But that 12.3% (22.3% - 10%) difference would have easily gotten me at least another 10kms of my local driving.
So I was looking at over 80kms without any pressure.

I’m not a fast driver mind, but I’m not a parish priest either. I could easily eek out another few kms out of that if I tried. And if I didn’t do the motorway stretch, I’d have gotten further still.

obi604

Soarer wrote: »

You could be dead in the morning!

I did a little test on Tuesday just gone.
Weather was warm, but windy.
No a/c or heating. Windows down a fraction, but have wind deflectors so shouldn't have affected anything.

2011 Leaf, 187k kms, 64% SOH.
Full battery.
Zeroed the trip.
Bit of local driving around.
Then an approximate 40km round trip to football at mostly 100km/h indicated (not ideal for the Leaf).
Then into work Wednesday morning, and over and back to the shop at lunchtime.
At that stage, my tripometer read 72.8km and LeafSpy said 22.3% SOC.
Had a few things to do that evening, so charged at that stage.

Now obviously you never get down to zero, and I’d normally never let it go below 10%.
But that 12.3% (22.3% - 10%) difference would have easily gotten me at least another 10kms of my local driving.
So I was looking at over 80kms without any pressure.

I’m not a fast driver mind, but I’m not a parish priest either. I could easily eek out another few kms out of that if I tried. And if I didn’t do the motorway stretch, I’d have gotten further still.

Fair enough.
I was kind of on the fence about an electric car if it gave me 130km range. But when it’s down to around 80km at a push, I dunno, just doesn’t work well in my head. Maybe just me but hard to spend 5-6k on a car that will only do 50 miles and less as time goes by.

OP do you have 2nd car ? can't remember if you said .

Even if you do , remember if you got to take a longer trip you can fast charge, though it's not so fast in a Gen 1 Leaf regardless but having said that it might be a pain in the ass so think about that also.

I wouldn't recommend it for more than 1 fast charge but it's still an option , the chargers are getting very busy too so you might have a long wait.

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

Fair enough.
I was kind of on the fence about an electric car if it have me 130km range. But when it’s down to around 80km at a push, I dunno, just doesn’t work well in my head. Maybe just me but hard to spend 5-6k on a car that will only do 50 miles and less as time goes by.

Well with that thinking, as well as your €5k budget, you're in the wrong forum.

Why are you worrying about 3, 4, 5 years' time? If you buy an ICE car for your €5k budget, are you still planning on driving it in 5 year's time?
How much will you have spent in that time on fuel/maintenance/road tax?
Simple maths if you buy a car that does 60mpg.
25 miles x 5 days = 125 miles per week.
125 miles x 49 weeks (take 3 weeks off for holidays) = 6125 miles.
6125 miles x 5 years = 30625 miles.

Diesel currently @ €1.30 per litre = €5.90 per gallon.
30625 miles @ 60mpg = 510 gallons.
510 gallons x €5.90 per gallon = €3009.

So in the 5 years that you're worrying about whether the Leaf will suit you in 2024, you've spent at least €3000 on fuel alone just traveling to work! And that's if you're driving a car that does 60mpg. At 50mpg, that goes up to €3600!
Not to mention increased road tax and maintenance.

Your daily commute is only 40kms. A Gen1. Leaf will do that for another few years no problem.

obi604

Soarer wrote: »

Well with that thinking, as well as your €5k budget, you're in the wrong forum.

Why are you worrying about 3, 4, 5 years' time? If you buy an ICE car for your €5k budget, are you still planning on driving it in 5 year's time?
How much will you have spent in that time on fuel/maintenance/road tax?
Simple maths if you buy a car that does 60mpg.
25 miles x 5 days = 125 miles per week.
125 miles x 49 weeks (take 3 weeks off for holidays) = 6125 miles.
6125 miles x 5 years = 30625 miles.

Diesel currently @ €1.30 per litre = €5.90 per gallon.
30625 miles @ 60mpg = 510 gallons.
510 gallons x €5.90 per gallon = €3009.

So in the 5 years that you're worrying about whether the Leaf will suit you in 2024, you've spent at least €3000 on fuel alone just traveling to work! And that's if you're driving a car that does 60mpg. At 50mpg, that goes up to €3600!
Not to mention increased road tax and maintenance.

Your daily commute is only 40kms. A Gen1. Leaf will do that for another few years no problem.

Fair enough, I am just trying to educate myself to see if it will work.
Thinking 3, 4 and 5 years as will probably hold on to the car for this long.

but now you do the figures there , a leaf could be an option

Soarer

Just don't look at its (possible) drawbacks.
Think of what it can do/save for you.

Buy one for around €5k and save for €120 road tax and minimal electricity costs, that's all it should cost you.

Buy a normal car for around €5k, and you're putting money into it week after week.

obi604

I have a habit of looking at the drawbacks and the what ifs.

question for ye, lets say you have 2 cars

1. 2011 leaf with 200,000 Km on the clock
2. 2011 leaf with 80,000 KM on the clock .

Lets say both were charge at home every night in an identical manner i.e not much fast charging

Would car number 1 have a way worse battery state of health than car 2? (due to the more mileage)
OR is it somewhat invalid and mainly down to age

unkel

It's both. The high mileage car has had far more charge / discharge cycles. Battery lifespan is expressed in cycles. Not in years. That says it all. I've never owned a Leaf but in above cases I would expect the 200k km one to have maybe 7-8 bars left and the 80k one around 9

obi604

What do ye think of buying a gen 1 leaf with over 100,000 miles on the clock? Too much miles
on the clock and battery down a good bit.

Or maybe I just wait to find a lower mileage Gen 1?

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

What do ye think of buying a gen 1 leaf with over 100,000 miles on the clock? Too much miles
on the clock and battery down a good bit.

Or maybe I just wait to find a lower mileage Gen 1?

Nothing wrong with either scenario, as long as the range suits your needs.

And waiting is just gonna cost you more money.

Zenith74

obi604 wrote: »

I have a habit of looking at the drawbacks and the what ifs.

FWIW I had similar when buying my first EV, lot of what-ifs. Then I figured feck it, if I don't like it after a month I can just sell it and probably lose nothing at all, so why not give it a go. Loved it, as did my wife and we bought a second Leaf within a month, haven't looked back.

If you pay a decent price (maybe get unkel to do your negotiating ) then you have virtually nothing to lose as you can just sell it on within weeks, very strong market for secondhand EVs at the moment.


PS. tidy looking 2011 in the UK with 100k km on it, seems like a decent enough spec with the tinted windows and reversing camera etc. €6000 asking, I'm sure they'd take €5500 then just factor in a €50 flight and ferry back...

tom_tarbucket

Zenith74 wrote: »

FWIW I had similar when buying my first EV, lot of what-ifs. Then I figured feck it, if I don't like it after a month I can just sell it and probably lose nothing at all, so why not give it a go. Loved it, as did my wife and we bought a second Leaf within a month, haven't looked back.

If you pay a decent price (maybe get unkel to do your negotiating ) then you have virtually nothing to lose as you can just sell it on within weeks, very strong market for secondhand EVs at the moment.


PS. tidy looking 2011 in the UK with 100k km on it, seems like a decent enough spec with the tinted windows and reversing camera etc. €6000 asking, I'm sure they'd take €5500 then just factor in a €50 flight and ferry back...

The UK one is tempting for anyone interested in an EV of this age.

highly1111

We're currently selling this - just put it up yesterday.

https://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Nissan/Leaf-E-5DR-ELECTRONIC/201908080921757?fbclid=IwAR0798Qm4BArnucFDtwJIjqtThOHii9GU7qLnI-E2m95UeWq_FAFChTnE-0


Edited to say it's a 2011 Leaf - realistic range is about 90-100km

unkel

Phil Fitzgerald (electricautos.ie) has a 2012 for €6k

I posted it in the bargains thread. Comes with 6 month warranty and all. Won't hang about.

unkel

highly1111 wrote: »

We're currently selling this - just put it up yesterday.

https://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Nissan/Leaf-E-5DR-ELECTRONIC/201908080921757?fbclid=IwAR0798Qm4BArnucFDtwJIjqtThOHii9GU7qLnI-E2m95UeWq_FAFChTnE-0

It could suit all your needs but the min we'd take is €5500

Edited to say it's a 2011 Leaf - realistic range is about 90-100km

That's a good deal for someone! Low mileage and all. Best of luck with your sale. I bet your car will be sold very soon

obi604

unkel wrote: »

Phil Fitzgerald (electricautos.ie) has a 2012 for €6k

I posted it in the bargains thread. Comes with 6 month warranty and all. Won't hang about.

Seen that. Has 111,000 MILES on it though. Is this a lot?

unkel

obi604 wrote: »

Seen that. Has 111,000 MILES on it though. Is this a lot?

I wouldn't worry about it. Leaf is extremely reliable. Check how many bars it has left so you know what to expect for a realistic range. If 8 it's a good deal and it comes with a warranty.

obi604

unkel wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. Leaf is extremely reliable. Check how many bars it has left so you know what to expect for a realistic range. If 8 it's a good deal and it comes with a warranty.

I am 'what if'ing' again

The high mileage slightly worries me

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

I am 'what if'ing' again

The high mileage slightly worries me

Why?

obi604

Soarer wrote: »

Why?

never owned with greater than 100,000 miles
more wear and tear
more stress on car
battery will have more stress on it
more charges done

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

never owned with greater than 100,000 miles
more wear and tear
more stress on car
battery will have more stress on it
more charges done

Wear & tear and stress aren't as relevant to an EV as they are to an ICE. Obviously certain components degrade over time, but in an EV, they're consumable items (suspension/brakes/etc.)

Battery and charges are kinda one and the same. But it'll all be down to SOH at the end of the day. And that can be checked before purchase.

At this stage, I really don't think an EV is for you...especially one within your budget. You seem a lot more comfortable with the thought of buying an ICE, which is completely fair enough.

There have been plenty of us advise you that, if the range suits, you're an ideal candidate for EV ownership. Can't do any more at this stage.

obi604

Soarer wrote: »

Wear & tear and stress aren't as relevant to an EV as they are to an ICE. Obviously certain components degrade over time, but in an EV, they're consumable items (suspension/brakes/etc.)

Battery and charges are kinda one and the same. But it'll all be down to SOH at the end of the day. And that can be checked before purchase.

At this stage, I really don't think an EV is for you...especially one within your budget. You seem a lot more comfortable with the thought of buying an ICE, which is completely fair enough.

There have been plenty of us advise you that, if the range suits, you're an ideal candidate for EV ownership. Can't do any more at this stage.

I know, I know.

I should jus accept that an EV suits my driving needs.

obi604

If choice is this;

1. Electric autos. 2012 leaf. 65% battery health. 111,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Sep 2020. Nice black colour.

2. Private sale. 2011 leaf. 76% battery health. 50,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Jul 2021. Red colour.

Which one would you go for?

Soarer

obi604 wrote: »

If choice is this;

1. Electric autos. 2012 leaf. 65% battery health. 111,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Sep 2020. Nice black colour.

2. Private sale. 2011 leaf. 76% battery health. 50,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Jul 2021. Red colour.

Which one would you go for?

What we'd go for is irrelevant.

What one would you go for?

obi604

Soarer wrote: »

What we'd go for is irrelevant.

What one would you go for?

I’m not sure. On one hand you have a good dealer, nice colour but high miles.

Other hand private sale, not awfully gone on colour but less than half the miles and better range.

So undecided.

Soarer

Well you've an issue with 100k miles, so surely the private one.

Mike9832

obi604 wrote: »

If choice is this;

1. Electric autos. 2012 leaf. 65% battery health. 111,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Sep 2020. Nice black colour.

2. Private sale. 2011 leaf. 76% battery health. 50,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Jul 2021. Red colour.

Which one would you go for?

Private of course

Leaf is probably the most reliable car in the world

unkel

obi604 wrote: »

If choice is this;

1. Electric autos. 2012 leaf. 65% battery health. 111,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Sep 2020. Nice black colour.

2. Private sale. 2011 leaf. 76% battery health. 50,000 miles on the clock. NCT until Jul 2021. Red colour.

Which one would you go for?

First one is €6k. But is now sold. What's the asking price of the second one?

obi604

unkel wrote: »

First one is €6k. But is now sold. What's the asking price of the second one?

6

unkel

The first one was a much better deal so. Anyway €6k Leafs are rare. If you want one, go for the other one and try negotiate some money off. Take a screen print of the ad for the first one if it is still up to show the private seller that a newer car with warranty sold for less than he is asking.

handofdog

obi604 wrote: »

6

A couple of pages back is a quote from the seller saying that the min they'd take is 5,500. That would be a good starting point.

As you know, it was me who bought the 6k one from electric autos. I really got the feeling that thete was big interest in it. I'm in agreement with unkel that these prices don't come up too often these days - you really need to act fast.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to buy. Cheers.

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

The first one was a much better deal so.

Why?
Because of a 6 month warranty on a car that doesn’t go wrong?

unkel wrote: »

If you want one, go for the other one and try negotiate some money off. Take a screen print of the ad for the first one if it is still up to show the private seller that a newer car with warranty sold for less than he is asking.

What the first one sold for is irrelevant. It’s gone. Now this one (with half the mileage and better SOH) is the cheapest available.
As you said yourself, “6K Leafs are rare”. Why would the seller drop?